Imagine if you had a neighbour who keeps performing songs from Phantom of the Opera in his apartment every night, by himself but accompanied by a parrot, which he has taught to sing Christine's part. Admittedly it's kind of obnoxious but you are far too baffled to even be properly annoyed. And also you don't want to confront someone with that kind of power and determination. So every once in a while you just hear this guy dramatically bellow
The problem with a lot of attempts to create federated social media platforms is that they talk about building decentralised communities, then turn around and adopt models of social media which are, at a structural and intentional level, hostile to both decentralisation and community-building.
They're caught in this horrible trap where they have to make it work like X/Twitter to leverage people's existing familiarity, but the X/Twitter model by design fosters "communities" consisting of large audiences of passive content consumers whose participation is oriented around following a tiny core of mega-popular content producers, which is fundamentally opposed literally all of their stated goals. It's great for monetisation, of course, but if advertiser-driven monetisation isn't part of our game plan, what the fuck are we even doing here?
You know why it's so hard to find a satisfactory alternative to something like Tumblr? A big part of it is because Tumblr is one of the only major social media platforms that isn't structurally hostile to people just talking to one another.
#I'd sell my soul for a fediverse tumblr alternative (via @roboco-san)
See, that's what I mean about the problem being structural. A big part of the reason there aren't any true Fediverse-based Tumblr-likes is that much of the existing Fediverse infrastructure is oriented toward Twitter clones. I admit it's been a couple of years since I last looked into it in depth, so my knowledge of the topic is somewhat out of date, but one of the big stumbling blocks is that trying to implement forum-esque reblog chains like Tumblr has causes most Fediverse front ends to bug out hilariously trying to display them, and breaks back-end compatibility with most existing Fediverse servers. As I understand it, the ActivityPub protocol supports this type of interaction in theory, but in practice nearly all existing implementations of it are built around the assumption of a Twitter style one-per-customer interaction model.
I think so far, the two most successful attempts at a fediverse tumblr clone at the moment (Goblin and Wafrn) have kinda thrown their hands up and just render what would be reply chains on more twitter-like fedi platforms as reblog threads. But that runs into the problem that the forum-esque reblog chains are only reblog chains for people on Goblin and Wafrn, and just look like Twitter-like reply threads to everyone else.
Also the problem is compounded by the fact that not only is most existing Fediverse infrastructure oriented towards Twitter clones, but it's oriented towards one specific Twitter clone. Basically everyone making a Fediverse-based platform, even a Twitter clone, has to contend with the fact that Mastodon is the most popular Fediverse-based platform by an order of magnitude just going by the number of servers (more if you're going by monthly active users). Not only does it not implement some ActivityPub features (some of which it has fallbacks for, others where it kinda just freaks out), but there are some features that are implemented in a way that's incompatible with the official spec, forcing other platforms to also ignore the spec for the sake of compatibility. On top of that, apparently actually getting Mastodon devs to hear people out on concerns about compatibility with other Fediverse platforms is like pulling teeth.
I think at least in theory, the best avenue for a federated Tumblr-like that actually replicates the structure of Tumblr as opposed to being functionally a Twitter clone with a Tumblr-esque coat of paint might be actually developing a new protocol instead of using an existing protocol like ActivityPub or ATProto, but obviously that's a lot more work *and* loses the advantage of being able to piggyback off of other federated platforms' existing userbases.
Ao Bing: I'm 3 years old
Nezha: I'm 3 years old too
Shen Xiaobao: I'm 300 years old
(From Jiaozi’s Nezha doodle celebrating the 14.3 billion record back in March)
Hi, it's me again. Nezhaheads, I truly was not expecting there to be a part 3 to the Nezha fandom shenanigan chronicles. Nezha 2 extended its theatrical run through June, so it'll be a while before it hits streaming and even longer before Nezha 3 comes out. But don't worry- there's plenty of action here to keep everyone busy until Jiaozi finishes the script for Nezha 3! Perhaps too much action.
Part 1 and Part 2 of these Writeups for those interested.
I thought things finally calmed down in the Nezha fandom since the Ao Guang ship wars fizzled out. Everyone went back to vibing and everything was peaceful... or so we thought!
All the previous write-ups will feel like a fin in the water compared to what this post is about. I'll do my best to explain it in ways normal humans can understand, because I'm still struggling to wrap my head around it myself. A lively portion of fans have invented a brand new form of discourse never seen before, and oubing got caught in the crossfire. This is like witnessing the conferred war of the gods, except everyone involved is terminally online.
I stared straight into the sun to obtain the info for the parts 1 and 2. For part 3, I flew a rocket straight to the sun, got cooked in a trigram furnace, and now I have Sun Wukong's fiery eyes!!
Will the following information improve your life in any way? No. Will it teach you anything of value? Also no. But will it be very funny? Perhaps!
Disclaimer: The majority of the fandom is not like this, as far as I know. Most fans ship everything they see and enjoy their own content in peace, but as we all know, 1% of 10,000 people being assholes still means there's 1000 assholes scrambling around. And in a fandom as huge as Nezha 2019/2025, that 1% can feel like a wildfire that won't go out.
And again, blanket note of caution- if you read on, you are prepared to see anything and everything. If you are OK with all this, then- let’s go!
Most of the drama takes place across pockets of weibo and xhs, less so on lofter but if the drama is big enough, you'll catch whiffs of it. People who don't want to be part of it just close their eyes and pretend not to see it, which is a very good strategy. But other people are jumping into the drama with their eyes wide open and making it everyone else's problem.
To prepare you for the absolute nuclear takes below, I'll first mention some light drama that nobody cares about. This is what I call, "people squabbling in a corner" because these takes have enough people saying them to warrant a mention, but not enough people participating to deserve more of our attention. And again, these are a very small minority among the fandom, because as I said, the majority are just vibing. I won't mention oubing here because that's for the main event. And we're not going to name any ships besides the top 7 for simplicity's sake, but if you're interested, someone on lofter ranked the popularity of each ship here.
Top 7:
Oubing
Bingzha
Dilong
Lubao
Longwangbao (Ao Guang/Shen Gongbao)
Luhe (Lutong/Hetong)
Runhe (Ao Run/Hetong)
(I'm leaving you to figure out everything else on the list at your own risk fyi)
Anyway, you know how astronauts have to go into those spinning things to do anti-gravitational training before heading to space? That's what this is. I'm preparing your tolerance for insanity before launching you into its very depths.
Ready? here we go! 命由我不由天!
The Trinity of things people take turns complaining about:
Emasculated Ao Guang ("What kind of freaks think a 280cm beefcake is a bottom??")
Trophy Wife Ao Bing ("The fujos ruined Ao Bing!")
Punching Bag Shen Gongbao ("Why do you people always have to make him the most miserable person on Earth??")
People Squabbling in a Corner:
Wuliang Xianweng apologism exists for some reason. Not only are there people who believe Wuliang is not a villain, they also think he is the REAL hero of the story! Because everything he did was on behalf of the human race! They are passionate about it too.
Some sickos think a live action adaptation of the movies would be a good idea.
Every once in a blue moon, someone complains about all the Shen Gongbao whump content and calls it "immoral." No, this did not deter anyone. They're still throwing Shen Gongong into the meat grinder every day. Lots of Things happen to Ao Guang and Ao Bing too in this fandom, but it's particularly excessive and brutal when it comes to SGB, so his is the only one that's prevalent enough to have people complaining about it. That's why "Yuxu Gong abuses cats" is a thing now.
Fanboys are still arguing over who deserved to be the 12th Golden Immortal more, Taiyi or Shen Gongbao
Oubing/Dilong/Lubao shippers are sometimes victims of drama and sometimes instigators. People are not normal about ships they don't like and characters they don't like. Usually not for anything the characters actually did or the actual dynamics of the ship, but instead because the other character/ship gets in the way of another ship or isn't attractive to op.
I originally listed a bunch of bad takes from individuals but deleted them all because it was singling haters out and turning into me going, "get a load of this asshole, guys!" because quite a number were coming from the same people. That's not fair to all the other haters out there! Every time you think someone's come up with the dumbest post, another person comes along to dethrone the last person. It's only fair they all get mentioned at the same time! So instead, see my example of the average weibo vaguepost when you put every terrible vaguepost (yes... these are real takes, and not even all of them asdfasdf) from every hater for every ship and every character out there side by side with each other. No paragraph breaks for true immersion (CW: fandom idiocy):
"Hope you enjoy dilong when Tiandi comes out as an ugly old man! Get your ugly old man away from lutong and go fuck yourselves, lubaos. he belongs to [whoever else I ship lutong with]. Stop mooching off of shen gongbao's popularity and get your abusive deer away from our leopard. also go fuck yourselves lubaos, he belongs to [whoever else I ship sgb with]. nobody likes lutong, fuck that guy. if you think jinzha is a bottom, kill yourself. fans of the ship I don't like all hate my fav even though my fav is 1/2 of the ship, stop making my fav top, stop making my fav bottom, tall people shouldn't bottom, ugly people shouldn't bottom, feminine people shouldn't top, nonexistent characters shouldn't even be here, no Li should ever bottom. Shen Gongbao fans go fuck a bike because you like faces that look like bicycle seats so much. Hope Tiandi enjoys the smell of Ao Guang's giant foot, loser dilongs. Luhe shippers go to hell. Self-shippers, jump off a cliff. Kill the switch fan, kill the switch fan right now!! RunHe shippers fuck off. Dilong shippers invented lubao to fuck with longwangbao. Bingzha shippers are sick in the head. all shippers die. all solo fans kill yourselves. Only X fans ship XY, only Y fans ship XY, YX fans die. Anyone who doesn't ship my ship should burn in hell. My ship will be canon and theirs will burn! I need to vague this loser's idiotic headcanon, unlike my headcanon, which is totally canon. Only a guangying shipper would like longwangbao. Of course an Ao Bing stan would say that, wow die bottom Nezha fan. Oubing fans are delulu because Ao Guang's true love is clearly [redacted for your sakes]-"
Are you following any of that? No? Good, neither can I. The scariest part is that you'd think most people saying those things are minors. No, the worst of them are adults with real jobs.
Thankfully, all that pointless squabbling never led to anything except more vagueing. Any attempts at harassment lacked the manpower of the dilong/guanying drama. So it usually boils down to a couple people beefing it with each other while their friends show emotional support by leaving likes and going "Yeah! That's right, fuck [whichever ship or character's being bashed]."
And yes, the SGB fans being vagued, vagued the "ugly, old man" accusations back by saying "we know he's old and ugly, that's why we're into him <3 we love riding bikes <3" Ironically, I think both the SGB fuckers and the SGB haters are unaware that "bicycle" has a very specific connotation in English fandoms LOL!
Citing a fanlore article I just googled:
Little Black Dress (LBD) refers to a character who, like a little black dress, "goes with anything." These are characters who are easily paired with almost any other character, including crossover characters from other fandoms. Also known as the Fandom Bicycle ("everyone gets a ride"), the Launcher of a Thousand Ships (a reference to Helen of Troy), or the Cargo Container (gets shipped everywhere).
In addition to actually wearing that black dress, SGB is indeed the one character with the most ships now (they're not necessarily hyper popular ships, but they exist), including with characters that aren't even in the movie (Hello Jiang Ziya and King Zhou). It's easier to count who he hasn't been shipped with at this point. He's not just a bicycle anymore, he's the fandom bicycle.
And yes, the dilongs are doing their best to manifest a hot Hao Tian to prove the haters wrong.
But don't take that as a picture of the fandom at large. I've noticed that most people ship oubing/dilong/lubao (and other assorted ships) at the same time without drama. Or just don't talk about things they don't like, which is a very hard task for some fans! Truly the one challenge that keeps all fandoms connected regardless of race, nation, or creed.
Meme Updates:
This time, I have no fanon lore updates for everyone. Nothing's really changed since last time. But there are some more meme variations of Sun Wukong meeting Shen Gongbao. Some examples-
SGB: "The prejudice in people's hearts is like a mountain. No matter how hard you try to move it, it remains immobile."
SWK: "So true, they wouldn't even let me be the Jade Emperor!"
SGB: "Wait-"
SGB: "The prejudice in people's hearts is like a mountain. No matter how hard you try to move it, it remains immobile."
SWK: "Skill issue." *invades heaven*
SGB: "The prejudice in people's hearts is like a mountain. No matter how hard you try to move it, it remains immobile."
SWK: "That's a YOU problem. I'm different.*invades heaven*
SGB: "I was the only demon disciple under Tianzun.
SWK: "Oh cool. Were you your Master's favorite too?
SGB: :) :) :) :) :)
A Breather before the next load of insanity:
I don't know if the algorithm's the same now, but a while ago on douyin, the search box would lead to a rabbit hole of search words when I plugged in #dilong or #lubao. As in, enough individuals were searching for these terms that it autofilled asdfasdf:
"Ao Bing gets tied up, Ao Bing gets crucified, Ao Guang gets crucified, Ao Guang gets crucified and tortured, Ao Guang gets bullied by Tiandi, Shen Gongbao gets tied up by Lutong, Lutong tortures Shen Gongbao, Shen Gongbao almost dies, Shen Gongbao coughs up blood, Shen Gongbao gets tied up and tortured, Shen Gongbao gets beat up, Shen Gongbao and his dad get beat up."
No, none of those yielded any results though you're welcome to try LOL. Wait, no actually one of those did yield something- it was someone's dilong fic about Hao Tian beating the shit out of Shen Gongbao and refusing to stop unless Ao Guang agrees to marry him, and then when Ao Guang does, Hao Tian gets really mad that he cares about another man. Average Tiandi behavior. Average day in Shen Gongbao's life.
And Jiaozi and co. work hard, but you know who works harder? Lubao shippers. They finally found a frame of their ship together in the same shot and angled in a position that allows face to face eye contact, and a with a lighting scheme that validates all of their headcanons to boot!
Now, THE MAIN EVENT. It's a wild one, so please strap on your seatbelts!
Solo Nezha fans vs Solo Ao Bing fans vs Oubing shippers vs Bingzha shippers vs Jiaozi vs Everyone Else
If I'm wrong about any of this, please feel free to jump in and correct me. Because I am NOT looking at any of this again. All that weibo-vaguing was hard enough for me to look at, but this next section took away at least 100 years of cultivation from me. But that's how much I love you all, Nezhaheads!
"The human capacity for drama is like a mountain. No matter how much you try, it can never be moved!" - me as I climbed up the mountain with what remained of my brain cells.
This drama, battle, whatever it is, was actually briefly mentioned in my first writeup. Everyone ignored it because it was just some unhinged people going at it with each other, and it never left weibo. Until it did. Then this drama that's been festering since as far back as February has finally reached its fever pitch.
To start us off with the seeds of this drama, you need to understand that there is a minor but extremely loud group of Nezha fans that really hates Jiaozi. To them, Jiaozi is like, Satan. These people are self-proclaimed fans of the "real" Nezha- the deity, the character from fsyy, the character from the 1979 movie, Black Myth Wukong, jttw, and so on. Basically, they stan classic!Nezha.
They hate the Jiaozi movies so much that they have entire tags dedicated to hating on him and his films and his characters and their fans. Mile-long essays, extremely angry rants, etc. They hate the movie, and they especially hate all the attention Nezha 2 got because it's a totally distorted picture of the Nezha myth and an offense to Nezha's character! They also spend like, everyday, writing frame-by-frame analyses of the films with citations and stuff, even though they despise it so much.
(Actual depiction of the Jiaozi haters)
As you can imagine, they HATE Ao Bing, who, according to them, is just an evil throwaway villain that did not deserve this much of a place in Nezha's story. This adaptation is distorting facts by making Ao Bing sympathetic! Tricking children into thinking Nezha is friends with that monster! How dare Jiaozi!? They claim Jiaozi is constantly bashing Nezha to elevate his precious Ao Bing and his precious dragon OCs. And bashing heaven/the Chan Sect to make the yaoguai look better. The spirit pearl/demon orb plotline especially offends them because Ao Bing RUINED Nezha's life by doing that! Poor Nezha suffered so much in his own movies, all because of Ao Bing! And Ao Bing rubbed salt in the wound by calling Nezha ugly! What an asshole, pull out his spine right now!
These stans/haters also spend a LOT of time insulting Ao Bing, unironically calling him "ugly," calling him unpopular ("see? he's not even as popular as shen gongbao! pathetic!"), weak, shameless, "girly," and every other insult under the sun.
By association with Ao Bing, they also despise Ao Guang and Shen Gongbao and Jiaozi's attempts to make us sympathize with them. But they can't decide which one of those two bastard men has more responsibility for the pearl switch-up- it changes depending on their mood. What matters is that Jiaozi is Satan, Ao Bing is the original sin, and Ao Guang/Shen Gongbao are the devil's minions, and they just want to see these two horrible men punished for their crimes. Coincidentally, Ao Bing, Ao Guang, and Shen Gongbao have all been accused of being Jiaozi's self-insert.
(imo, if they were paying attention, they would know that nobody punishes Ao Guang and Shen Gongbao more than their own fans. Every day Ao Guang fans wake up and think to themselves, "what else can we do to Ao Guang?" Every day, Shen Gongbao fans wake up and think to themselves, "what haven't we done to Shen Gongbao?")
Their hatred of Ao Bing extends to Oubing/Bingzha shippers, who they constantly bash, vague, and harass (when they get the chance). Because Ao Bing is just mooching off of Nezha's popularity ("Nezha is the main and most popular character! Nobody cares about Ao Bing aside from shippers!") and anyone who ships him with Nezha only cares about Ao Bing clearly. Nezha is just being used as an ooc plot device for them to further victimize and elevate Ao Bing.
These classic Nezha stans then start overlapping with the Nezha stans from the Jiaozi movies. As in, fans of Nezha the character from the 2019/2025 films, who like him exclusively and believe Ao Bing/Oubing fans are just using him as a prop for their loser fav. They believe Oubing is the worst thing to ever happen because Nezha is always a side character for Ao Bing, an ooc bully towards Ao Bing, a walking yaoi dick with no characterization, etc. They say Ao Bing would have 0 fans if it wasn't for Oubing. Unlike Nezha, who would still be the most popular character and the lead of China's greatest box office success, even without Oubing. In fact, Oubing shippers are just a small minority of losers, and the REAL people responsible for the box office numbers are solo Nezha stans.
If they hate 19/25 oubing, they despise Shangmei/1979 oubing for twisting Nezha into an unrecognizable pervert and Ao Bing into a helpless victim, when Nezha was clearly a pure hero in the original and Ao Bing was a dastardly evil monster! Whose fault is it? Oubing shippers. You guys know why the sun sets at night? Oubing shippers. Oubing shippers are all that is wrong with the world.
[For the context/lore behind Shangmei oubing, see this writeup by the lovely yunsound]
But is it only the Nezha stans running amok? LMAO of course not, this is the war of the (terminally online) gods here! Enter Ao Bing stans, who are, you guessed it, exclusive Ao Bing fans who don't care at all about Nezha. Now take all the arguments those Nezha solo stans made, and flip it around- that's what Ao Bing solo stans sound like.
They believe Ao Bing was cheated out of a good storyline in favor of being reduced to fanservice for the fujoshi. He's clearly the best character and so much cooler than that loser Nezha! And everyone else would see that too if Jiaozi and co. weren't so biased against Ao Bing.
Nezha glowed up, but Ao Bing got downgraded in the sequel! This movie has not one, but TWO protagonists, and the filmmakers were horrible for not seeing that! He was reduced to a plot device to elevate Nezha, and all Oubing shippers ever do is make things worse by turning Ao Bing into Nezha's punching bag, feminizing him into an ooc mess, making him weak in order to show how cool Nezha is, etc. Clearly ALL Oubing shippers are just Nezha fans who don't give a shit about Ao Bing.
They even made callout posts (like with screenshots, timestamps, and everything asdfasdf these are legit endlessly long callouts) of all the horrible things Nezha did to Ao Bing... in fanfiction. This stuff was used as proof of what those nasty Oubing shippers are like and how those nasty Nezha stans are always bullying Ao Bing.
Instead of @ ing Jiaozi like you'd expect, fans cut out the middle man and went straight to Nezha temples to pray for more Ao Bing screentime in the third movie. This riled up the Nezha stans because how dare Ao Bing stans bring their bullshit fantasies into their temple!? Ao Bing stans also kicked up a storm over this one official poster where Ao Bing was standing on the side, while Nezha was in the center with Ao Guang and Shen Gongbao (maybe Nezha is bonding with his in-laws?? ever thought of that, Ao Bing stans? checkmate!). Because they saw that as a sign of neglect and bias from the official team!
Ao Bing stans and Nezha stans then kept going back and forth with each other, while taking turns harassing various popular Oubing artists and accusing them of just being fans of Nezha or fans of Ao Bing and using the other character in the ship as a tool for their sick fantasies. I even saw one artist come out and apologize because?? she was friends with a lubao shipper, who *checks notes* reblogged solo Ao Bing art???????? That's how wild it's gotten. Some of these stans also attempted to harass Ao Bing's VA at some point or something, it was just a mess all around.
And coming into the ring, we have Oubing stans hating on Nezha stans and Ao Bing stans as well. They say that if not for oubing, neither Nezha or Ao Bing would be half as popular as they are today. And the WORST stans are the ones who enjoy all the art/fics/etc. made by Oubing/Bingzha creators, only to turn around and show how much they exclusively love 1 character while not caring about the other. Some of them even dared to view ship art as platonic, or worse, solo art! Depending on which character the Oubing stans favor, they'll either only call Nezha stans the scum of the Earth or only call Ao Bing stans braindead losers.
We also have the combo of Nezha stan + Oubing stan or Ao Bing stan + Oubing stan, who do everything the solo stans accuse Oubing shippers of doing!
In case you're wondering, this is how everyone else in and out of the fandom is reacting to the Nezha/Aobing/Oubing battles:
This behavior is "normal" in real person actor/idol fandoms, but seeing it play out with animated characters was truly a first for many, many people LMAO
And then when the stan wars reached new heights, the 31st ComiCup (CP31) came along. That's the biggest fan convention in China. It primarily focuses on Chinese media (donghua especially), but also includes animanga, hollywood shows/movies, novels, etc. I don't think creators, actors, etc. ever attend it- it's a completely fan-based convention for fanartists and writers to sell merchandise for their blorbos, ships, and favorite media. This year, it happened in Shanghai.
From what I can gather, anyone can set up a booth for their ship, character, etc. but to have an entire "street" (a whole lane/aisle of booths) officially dedicated to your fav character or ship is the highest honor. It gets put on the map guide for con-goers. And it means there's 1) enough creators for your blorbo/ship to host a whole street of different booths 2) enough people interested in your blorbo/ship to pack the whole street. While with the booths, you're just one of several numbered areas in the wider fandom lane.
Anyway, both Oubing and Bingzha had official streets. Every ship mentioned in this writeup (and not mentioned too!) had booths too. Dilong had its own street as well, and they're hoping Jiaozi will notice.
But there were no solo streets for Nezha or Ao Bing, or anyone else in the movie... except one character. It's Shen Gongbao. The only character from the entire cast to have a whole street dedicated to his content. And it's Shen Gongbao. Even his haters had to look at that and begrudgingly respect the dedication of leopard stans. Nobody would believe you if you told them this would happen in 2019, but here we are. So I guess you could say that at the end of all this, Shen Gongong won the conferred god war?? greatest plot twist of 2025.
Me, explaining this in American terms: "This is like witnessing the popular kids fighting over who will be prom queen for an entire year, and then on prom night, the cranky old teacher from down the hall gets voted queen in front of the whole school"
Oubing/Bingzha stans were ecstatic either way, because this proves that the solo stans were delusional from the start and that the world belongs to the Nezha x Ao Bing shippers (and Shen Gongbao fuckers too, apparently). They're still mocking the solo Nezha and solo Ao Bing stans as we speak. I don't know if there's any way of this drama ending unless Nezha himself descends to Earth and tells everyone to shut up, but I think it'll be like the ABZ drama- something major happens or it just fizzles out on its own.
There's another big con coming up in Chengdu, and this time, in order to avoid being owned by the Shen Gongbao fuckers again, the Nezha stans were quick to establish their street! In order to participate in the Nezha street, you have to obey the following rules: "No Ao Bing content, No Oubing content, No content for the 2019/2025 Demon Child movies)"
But also once again, Oubing/Bingzha and Shen Gongbao have their streets set up.
Lastly, for some better news after ALL THAT!
Pop star Silence Wang, changed the lyrics to his song 梦幻诛仙 to make it Oubing-coded during a recent concert.
The one ship that's had zero drama arise from it is Yishen (Taiyi Zhenren x Shen Gongbao). Why? Because Taiyi is the ultimate Chad.
Jiaozi is now "unsure" how dragons procreate and says he's toying with the idea of it happening without the need for a partner. Ao Guang m-preg confirmed? Either way, congratulations m-preg Ao Guang fans
There's so much Shen Gongbao whump they were able to play a whump bingo for him LOL! He suffers in canon-era content, he suffers in post-canon content, he suffers in pre-canon content, he suffers in modern AUs. He even suffers in his own self-ship fics. There has to be some kind of lifetime achievement award we can give him for this because in a mere 4 months, there's been so much whump angst content for him that he can give *checks notes* MCU Loki a run for his money. At first, I thought maybe it was just coincidence that every time I clicked on his content, things like this popped up. Then I realized that no, it was because there truly was that much of it. Something about Shen Gonggong compels his own fandom to see him horribly injured in every way possible, good for them.
I made a English ver. bingo here just so the SGBheads can see all the common things he Goes Through in cn fandom. I was not exaggerating about it in any of the writeups. And this is just some of it! There's a lot more going on in that part of the fandom (like- Shen Zhengdao dies in front of him, King Zhou & Daji are actually super nice to him but die violently in front of him, all manner of public humiliation, starvation, brainwashing, and so on) :
Maybe because of all the angst now associated with him, half the fandom's legit convinced he'll heroically sacrifice himself for everyone else in the 3rd movie, bringing his "redemption arc" full circle. Are they right? Only time will tell.
And that's a wrap! Will there be a writeup part 4 to dethrone part 3? Only fate can tell! We can't even predict what storms of drama will emerge from the popularity boost of a streaming copy + high profile English dub. If there's ever any drama as ballistic as this in the English fandom, someone please do a writeup and tag me!
Fuck it, I didn't want to make a post on this but it's bugging the hell out of me so let's exorcize the thought.
Lilo and Stitch is an extremely good children's movie. I've been working at a daycare for over five years now, and out of all the children's movies I've shown to an auidence of twenty or so school-age kids (i.e. between the ages of 5 and 12), the only movie that's held their attention as well as Lilo and Stitch is The Emperor's New Groove, and the only one that's held it better is An American Tail. Of those three, Lilo and Stitch has won the vote of "what movie we will watch" the most. It not only entertains kids, but emotionally captivates them from start to finish, because it very thoroughly understands how to engage children on their level. It's a smart, tightly written children's movie.
The feat of story-telling genius it pulls of lies in its ability to reach both where children's imaginations want to go and where their lived real-world experiences lie - most children's movies focus on one or the other, but Lilo and Stitch dives deep into both. On the imagination side, there's Stitch's whole plotline of being a little alien monster being chased by other weirdo aliens onto earth because they want to stop him from running amok and causing havoc (which, of course, happens anyway in fun cartoony comedy/action spectacle). On the real-world side, you have Lilo's plotline of being a troubled little girl who has an abundance of very real problems that, like an actual child, she struggles to comprehend and deal with, as well as the many adults in her life that care about her to some degree but all struggle to fully understand her. Kids want to be Stitch and run amok and cause cartoony havoc. Kids, even the least-troubled kids, relate to Lilo, because all of them have been in a similar situation as her at least once in their lives.
Balancing these two very different stories, with very different tones and scopes to their respective conflicts, is a hard writing task, but Lilo and Stitch manages to do it in a way that seems effortless with one very powerful trick. The two plots are direct mirrors to each other, complete with the characters involved in each having foils in the respective plot. To break it down:
Stitch, the wild and destructive alien gremlin who everyone has labeled as a crime against existence, is Lilo, the troubled young girl who's viewed as a "problem child" by all the adults in her life. In both plotlines, Stitch and Lilo are facing the threat of being "taken away" from the life they know because they act out, and in both plotlines, we see that this is an unfathomably cruel thing to do to them and will not actually solve the problems they have.
Dr. Jumbaa, the mad scientist who made Stitch because making monsters is what mad scientists do, and who had no intentions of ever being nurturing or parental to anything or anyone in his life, is Nani, Lilo's older sister whose parents died when she was young and now is forced to act as a parental substitute despite not being mentally or emotionally prepared for that responsibility yet. Both Dr. Jumbaa and Nani are trying to get their respective wild children in line with what society wants them to be, and both are struggling hard with it because they in turn have a lot of growing to do before they can actually accomplish that.
Pleakley, the nebbish alien bureaucrat who ends up being assigned to help Dr. Jumbaa despite being mostly uninvolved in creating the whole Stitch situation, is David, the nice but mostly ineffectual guy who's crushing on Nani and wants to help her but doesn't really have much he can provide except emotional support. Ultimately Pleakley and David prove that said emotional support is a lot more helpful than it seems on the surface, as they give Jumbaa and Nani respectively a lot of the pushes they need to become better in their parental roles.
The Grand Councilwoman, who runs the society of aliens that is trying to banish Stitch forever for his crime of existing, is Cobra Bubbles, the Child Protective Services agent who is in charge of deciding whether or not Lilo needs to be taken away from her home forever for, ostensibly, her own good. Both are well-intentioned and stern, with a desire to follow the rules of society and do what procedure says is the most humane thing to do in this situation, but both lack the understanding of Stitch/Lilo's situation to actually help until the end of the movie.
Finally, we have Captain Gantu, the enforcer of the Galactic Council who is a mean, aggressive, sadistic brute but is viewed as a "good guy" by society because he plays by its rules (well, when he knows can't get away with breaking them, anyway), who is the counterpart of Myrtle, the mean, aggressive, sadistic schoolyard bully who is viewed as a "good kid" by other adults because she plays by the rules they established (well, when she knows she can't get away with breaking them, anyway). Both Gantu and Myrtle are, in truth, much nastier in temperament than Stitch and Lilo, but are better at hiding it in front of others and so get away with it, and often make Stitch and Lilo look worse in the eyes of others by provoking them to violence and then playing the victim about it - in fact, both even have the same line, "Does this look infected to you?", which they say after goading their respective wild-child victims into biting them.
The symmetry of these two plotlines allows them to actually feed into each other and build each other up instead of fighting each other for screentime. The fantastical nature of Stitch's plot adds whimsy to the far more realistic problems that Lilo faces so they don't get too heavy for the children in the audience, while the very real struggles of Lilo in her plotline bleed over into Stitch's plot and make both very emotionally poignant. When both plotlines hit their shared climax, they reach children on a emotional level few other movies can match - the terror of Lilo being taken away from her family, and the emotional complexity of that problem (Cobra Bubbles pointing to Lilo's ruined house and shouting at Nani, "IS THIS WHAT LILO NEEDS?" is so starkly real and heart-breaking), is matched and echoed in the visual splendor and mania of the spectacular no-way-this-is-going-to-work chase scene where Stitch, Nani, Jumbaa, and Pleakley all team up to rescue Lilo from Gantu.
The arcs of the characters all more or less line up. Nani confronts her own failures to be a guardian and parent to Lilo and resolves to do better and learn from her mistakes. Jumbaa, who through most of the movie protests to be evil and uncaring, nonetheless comes to not only care for Pleakley, but more importantly for Stitch too, and ends up assuming the role he never wanted but nonetheless forced himself into from the start: he is Stitch's family. Hell, the moment that reveals this is really clever - Stitch goes out into the wilderness to try and re-enact a scene from a storybook of The Ugly Duckling, hoping, in a very childish way, that his family will show up and love him. Jumbaa arrives and, coldly but not particularly cruelly, tells Stitch that he has no family - that Stitch wasn't born, but created in a lab by Jumbaa himself. But in that moment Jumbaa is proving himself wrong - because Stitch's creator, his parent, DID show up, and did exactly what happens in the story by telling Stitch the truth of what he is. It can't be a surprise, then, that later in the movie Jumbaa ends up deciding to side with Stitch, to help him save Lilo, and to stay on Earth with his child.
David and Pleakley go from being pushed away by Nani and Jumbaa respectively to essentially becoming their partners in the family. The Grand Councilwoman and Cobra Bubbles finally see how cruel their initial solution of isolating Stitch and Lilo from their family would be, and bend the rules they are supposed to enforce to protect and support this weird found family instead of breaking it apart. Gantu and Myrtle are recognized for the assholes they are and face comeuppance in the form of comedic slapstick pratfalls. And most importantly, Stitch and Lilo both get the emotional support and understanding they need to thrive and live happy lives as children should be allowed to do. It's like poetry, it rhymes.
It's a very precise, smartly written movie. It's a delicate balancing act of tone and emotions, with a very strong theme about the need for family and understanding that hits children in their hearts and imaginations. It's extremely well structured.
...
So it'd be kind of colossally fucking stupid to remake it and start fucking around with the core structure of it, chopping out pieces and completely altering others, with no real purpose beyond "Well, the executives thought it might be better if we did this."
Why didn't Nezha want to reform his body as his grown demon form?
Among the many comedic scenes in 哪吒之魔童闹海 (Nezha 2, Jiaozi, 2025), one of my personal favourites is the one at the beginning of the film where Nezha and his family throw around a bunch silly requests for the ideal appearance of his new body. You got street fighter-level swole, you got danmei pretty boy, you got porcelain figure precious cinnamon roll cute, all culminating in the most charmingly funkiest little guy at the end.
I think it is not only a great reinterpretation of what happens in the original story, but it gives some clever insight into Nezha's character while also establishing one of the core themes of the film. This is because of something, or rather someone, that was not included in the sequence that would have theoretically made all their wishes come true.
And that is his demon form (少年哪吒).
I believe there a few interconnected reasons for this choice.
Firstly, it provides characterization to tie the two films together, and reveals that Nezha does not see that version of himself as who he truly is and want to be. Although that form is what helped him to save his family and village in the first film, 哪吒之魔童降世 (Jiaozi, 2019), it is also what attacked the family that he loves and respects, and what has caused them so much grief in the first place. His sensitivity towards his demon identity and appearance throughout the second film (Jiaozi, 2025) could then be understood as a reflection of this negative association. In the scene where Nezha was suppose to meet his brothers, he could not even bring himself to face them because he thought his appearance could not possibly be suitable. Afterwards, Nezha laments to Aobing about how much of who he is, especially as a demon, has been a burden to his family. Consequently, he declares he wants to become an immortal to leave that part of him behind. His appearance as a sore point also surfaces during the second trial, where he dejectedly pouts that the dark circles around his eyes were something he was born with rather than a particular choice in lifestyle he has made. This aspect of choice is a fundamental aspect of his character. In the first film, one of his defining thematic lines is
我命由不由天。是魔是仙，我自己說了才算！
"I am the master of my fate. I'm the one who decides whether I'm an immortal or demon!" (Official English subtitles)
No one decides for him. He is someone who will defy the fate given to him and choose his own path. In the second film, we see him begin to embark on this path of self determination as he initially chooses against his demon identity in order to become someone he believes to be better, not just for himself but those close to him.
Moreover, it serves to humanise him as a character. Instead of seeing him reform with arms blazing, noble as a bright new day right from the start, we see him struggle and waver. In the interview with 中国电影报道 （Movie News, 2025）, Nezha 2 director, Jiaozi, makes a point that Nezha cannot become a stereotypical and "superficial" hero "who floats around after shouting slogans".
我们不能让哪吒脸谱化 / 不能让他成为一个虚浮的 / 喊着口号之后一个漂浮的人物
He additionally presents the question:
你说这内心要强大到什么份上 / 才能够完全不管别人的评价
“You say, how strong must one's heart must be to completely ignore others' opinions" (Official English subtitles)
To never doubt oneself again after a single experience of self-affirmation, would not be true to life. Human life and "real human nature is complex" (Official English subtitles) (Movie News, 2025).
但这人性 真实的人性是复杂的
Everyone goes through their periods of doubt and insecurity. You can tell yourself that the opinions of others do not matter and to not care about way others say, just like what Nezha says his father told him in the first film (Jiaozi, 2019)
别人的看法都是狗屁 / 你是谁只有你自己说了再算 / 这是爹教我的道理
Other people's opinions are bullshit. You are the only one who controls what you become. That's what my father taught me! (Official English subtitles).
However, eventually those opinions will start to weigh on you. Human prejudice is like a "mountain" as Shen Gongbao states in the first film afterall (2019).
人心中的成见像一座大山，任你怎么努力都休想搬动
For Nezha to be a compelling character that is true to life, he must "experience such a inner process" of doubt and anxiety (Official English subtitles) (Movie News, 2025).
所以哪吒他一定会经历这种真实的内心的过程
Anything less would be far too "fake" (Movie News, 2025). Seeing how Nezha struggles over who he is and then finally overcomes it,then becomes even more captivating to watch. When he says the following line that is emblematic of the second film's main theme:
小爺是魔 那又如何
"I am a demon. What of it." (My translation)
he is defying all his self doubt and the world's prejudice to accept who he truly is, and chooses to carve out a new path as himself in a world where such a path does not exist. It can also be said that his self acceptance is rooted in his choice to accept his mother's love for him. From the very start she never cared whether he was a demon or human. Nor did she begrudge Nezha for any pain and hardship she might had to endure because of it. He was always just "her son," whom she wanted to protect (Jiaozi, 2025). Watching Nezha's journey and how his demon form was utilized to provide closure to his character arc, is a wonder to experience.
Nezha puts it best himself in that comedic scene. When Nezha takes up the knife to carve up his new body, he gleefully notes that doing something yourself or "DIY" is most "satisfying" (Jiaozi, 2025). In the same vein, it would only be satisfying for the audience to see his demon form again when Nezha chooses to find his place in it. What he ended up making may not be the ideal form he first envisioned, but it certainly is the most "promising" version of him (Jiaozi, 2025).
Bibliography
Jiaozi. (Director). (2019). 哪吒之魔童降世 [Nezha: Birth of the demon child] [Film]. Chengdu Cococartoon et al.
Jiaozi. (Director). (2025). 哪吒之魔童鬧海 [Nezha 2: The demon child strikes the sea] [Film]. Chengdu Cococartoon et al.
MUSICKAKI (Reuploader and English subtitler). (2025). 《哪吒之魔童闹海》导演饺子专访 3：把每一部作品都当成最后一部作品来创作 | Interview Ne Zha director Jiaozi (with subtitles) 🗣️🎙️ [Interview with director Jiaozi 3: To make each work as if it is your last] [Video]. Youtube. Link.
Personal archive of material I managed to find online, with translated citations done to the best of my ability.
Unfortunately, not all material has official English translations. If you're willing to use machine translation tools with a grain of salt, then I highly recommend checking everything out. So many insightful and beautiful things to be found ☺️
(Last Updated: 5 April, 2025)
Interviews
Director:
故事会 Story Hour. (2025). 【独家】打破中国影史纪录！专访《哪吒之魔童闹海》导演饺子 大量《哪吒2》制作故事首次公开！1900多个特效镜头是如何诞生的？导演曾考入名牌大学药学专业？| 故事会 Story Hour [【Exlusive】 Breaking records in china's film history! Interview with 《Nezha: The demon child strikes the sea》's director, Jiaozi；First look at the production story behing the breakout hit, 《Nezha 2》 ! How did over 1900 shots of special effects come to be? The director was once accepted into a prestigious university specializing in pharmacy?] [Video]. Youtube. Link.
MUSICKAKI 音乐卡奇. (2025). 《哪吒之魔童闹海》导演饺子专访 2 | Interview Ne Zha Director Jiaozi 🗣️🎙️ [Video]. Youtube. Link.
MUSICKAKI (Reuploader and English subtitler). (2025). 《哪吒之魔童闹海》导演饺子专访 3：把每一部作品都当成最后一部作品来创作 | Interview Ne Zha director Jiaozi (with subtitles) 🗣️🎙️ [Interview with director Jiaozi 3: To make each work as if it is your last] [Video]. Youtube. Link.
Composers:
China Daily 中國日報. (2025). Heavenly resonance: Chording for Nezha [Video]. Youtube. Link.
通視 [tongshi]. (2025). 專訪朱芸編：“魔童”哪吒背後的香港音樂人 [Interview with Zhu Yunbian: The Hongkonger composer behind "demon child" Nezha] [Video]. Link.
Voice Actors
China Culture. (2025). Exclusive interview with Lyu Yanting: Voicing Nezha, the legend who defied fate [Video]. Youtube. Link.
中国电影报道 [Chinese Film Report]. (2025). 专访 | 敖丙配音演员瀚墨：为敖丙赋予独特“声”命 [Interview | Han Momo, the voice actor for Ao Bing: Bestowing unique life to Aobing's voice] [Video]. Youtube. Link.
Making of/BTS Materials
DonghuaGameCG3D [Reuploader]. (2025) Voice actors | movie Ne Zha 2 | making of And behind the scenes | 2025 .1.29 in theater now [Video]. Youtube. Link.
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