Sakura questioning and being used to indicate the cruelty of the shinobi system and shinobi conditioned mindset since part 1…and then this going full circle during the sasori vs sakura fight
Isn't it interesting that Sarada awoke her Mangekyo "out of love" (even though that's true for all Uchiha that awakened it)? She broke the curse of hatred, guys! Isn't that great? She just happened to be completely isolated from the culture of her people, and assimilated in the "normal" majority of the village! Her dad doesn't even carry any Uchiha traditions or ideals anymore! His only purpose, at this point, seems to be to serve the village! Isn't it so interesting that she's an "good" shinobi, that she is loyal to Konoha, that she has acceptable aspirations like wanting to be Hokage (leader of the village that enforced the discrimination and genocide of her forefathers)? Isn't it so cool that she knows nothing about the history of her clan or the truth of how they were killed in the middle of the night, in the safety of their homes, by one of their own?
Isn't it so interesting that an Uchiha that "breaks the curse of hatred" is one that is stripped of their culture and loyal to the village?
Nevermind the fact that the whole "curse of hatred" was such bullshit in the first place. It took multiple retcons, whitewashes, and propoganda mouth pieces for Kishimoto to fail at establishing the "curse of hatred" aspect of the Uchiha when the reality is that so many aspects of the Sharingan and their culture is a cycle of love and grieving/celebrating that love (because no one is gonna tell me that WILLINGLY giving your eyes to someone is not the ultimate act of LOVE for an Uchiha nor are they gonna make me believe the Uchiha were killing one another for power).
To then have Sarada achieve Mangekyo "out of love" as if the same thing did not happen with Madara is such bullshit. Because at the end of the day, you cannot grieve without love, you cannot self-sacrifice without love, you cannot be an Uchiha without love, that is legit the foundation of their Sharingan and it makes me so mad.
wait why are so many sasuke fans saying fugaku wasn't so bad...... 🤨 didn't he make sasuke feel inferior and like a dissapointment bc itachi was his favourite child, and didn't even care enough about sasuke to attend his graduation until itachi basically pressured him into it. their mother is the one who was like "oh he's just bad at communicating" making excuses for him lol, but it doesn't change how badly he treated sasuke for years. not that samurai are a better option, but fugaku should go in the fire with all the other shitty dads lmao
(ps. thanks for running this poll btw, life has been really tiring recently and this has amused me so much, I appreciate all the effort you've put in for us haha)
As we discussed, I will just be responding to the initial question of this to hopefully give some insight as to why many Sasuke lovers do actually like Fugaku.
First and foremost Sasuke doesn’t even dislike his father, Sasuke loves him!
Aside from that though, to actually delve into it, I feel that most Sasuke lovers are Uchiha lovers to begin with. People who tend to sympathize, relate to, understand, and adore Sasuke extend that to his clan which has been wronged for far longer than the Uchiha genocide. They went through decades on decades of being oppressed, and Fugaku had that weight on his shoulders to be responsible for the fate of his clan and how they were to be treated ongoing. He was under a lot of pressure and his focuses, unfortunately, did have to be diverged from Sasuke, and from Itachi in a way that Itachi actually needed. Sasuke was a kid and wasn’t included in knowing the situation their clan had been put in. He doesn’t know why his father is so incredibly busy and not solely focused on family. He’s a kid. He just doesn’t know. He wants attention and praise— which he does actually get from Fugaku, just not in the way and the intensity he desires it.
Fugaku never treated Sasuke in an abusive or even negative way, he just hadn’t given him praise in the exact way that Sasuke desired. His comparison of Sasuke to Itachi, to me, seems to be put in a way of encouraging Sasuke to grow, and alternatively sometimes telling him that it’s okay to slow down and not be like Itachi. Did this sit well with Sasuke? No, Sasuke didn’t receive that in a way that was beneficial to him, however Fugaku clearly had no malicious intent. Sasuke was a kid— a younger sibling at that— he’s going to take comparisons to his brother very personally. Nonetheless, Fugaku still praised him and gave him attention when he could, it just wasn’t well received from Sasuke (again, a clueless child to the situation at large).
Fugaku was frankly bad at communicating, and he was absolutely a little emotionally reserved. He wasn’t good at expressing his emotions, but he still clearly loved his family. He was with them when he could be, but again he had a LOT of expectations and weight on his shoulders at all times.
Yes, Fugaku gave more attention to Itachi, but he genuinely needed to. It wasn’t that Itachi was his favourite child, it’s that Itachi was (supposed to be, believed to be) a large and important role in the Uchiha coup d’état. So not only was Itachi someone he could give attention to during family time, but he was also involved in the other massive part of Fugaku’s life in this point of time. Sasuke however would see this and not understand, he doesn’t have the knowledge to be able to see why his brother is getting more attention than him.
All in all, Fugaku was burdened with a lot while his kids were both very young. It’s unfortunate, for sure, but it’s something that while looking at the big picture is understandable. Unfortunately it just wasn’t in a childs eyes. Was Fugaku the best dad in the world? Absolutely not. But is he really comparable to some of the other horrible fathers in Naruto? No, at least not in my opinion.
Additionally, I also just want to state that Fugaku taking Itachi to the war zone as a child was not canon to the manga. I believe it was a part of the Itachi Light novels.
I think this ask here also gives a nice perspective on the pro-Fugaku opinion too. I’m sure there are plenty other very good reasons I could add here too, I simply don’t have the time at the moment and this is already super long anyways LOL. Any Fugaku defenders can add to this as well with some other perspectives :)
Anyhow, I’m glad you’ve been enjoying the poll and I hope this explanation may give a bit of insight as to why many Sasuke lovers do not actually hate Fugaku.
Anyone who says that Sasuke didn’t like Sakura, thought of her as annoying and didn’t form any considerate bond with is not only a bad reader but also someone who does not understand Sasuke as a character.
Sakura was his friend. She was part of the dynamic and someone Sasuke learned to deeply care about. He did call her out when she did something awful but he also saw her change, saw her learn to deeply care about Naruto or Lee, saw her doubting her usefulness and capabilities. Moreover, he saw her caring about him. On a more serious level than just a crush.
Sasuke is not dumb, mean-spirited or ignorant. He knew Sakura liked him, he knew that from the very beginning. But as he changed, he not only pushed it away but also started doubting why exactly Sakura loves him.
You don’t have to ship it or even like the idea of the ship, but removing a caring person from Sasuke’s life just because you don’t like her is cruel to Sasuke himself.
i know everyone is tired of hearing it from me but i'll never be free from how people think you can only ship a het ship WOKELY if the man is a pathetic useless idiot and the girl babysits and pegs him and has the personality of a door. i promise you won't get your woke card revoked if you spend five minutes of your time to consider the girl has a personality and the guy might be a competent person. and maybe she likes getting dicked down and is a little pathetic too. have you considered also liking the girl and maybe wanting her to be a spoiled baby too? also I'll Kill You
No Kishimoto, you can't act like loneliness is the problem when you made Konoha kill Sasuke's clan. Sasuke doesn't push people away for no reason he does it because of trauma. You have to address the root of the problem which is government sanctioned genocide, not loneliness. And Naruto and Sasuke beating each other up isn't going to help with that let alone the loneliness issue that is suddenly a problem. How is Sasuke supposed to not feel alone anyway when literally no one is validating his feelings.
You know ? Naruto ( the character) is pretty much by action and blind support of Konoha, that the Ends Justify the Means. Protecting, covering up the corruption, and etc so he can ascend to Hokage where he says that is when he will change things ( yet that means supporting the system to acheive that postion) pretty is much is End Justify the Means. Of course he would never admit that.
100% agree, and this "goal-oriented" perspective of his, where konoha's false peace is idealized as the most sacred thing in the world, is often misunderstood as mature and wise, but it's in fact extremely nationalistic and violent. he just also happens to be the Narrative's favorite child, so all his obstacles get solved by systematized Deus Ex Machina (i.e. talk no jutsu) or someone else taking care of it for him (e.g. sasuke killing danzo). the blood on his hands, as soldier and later as hokage, is thoroughly invisibilized by distance and the institutions that quietly carry out violence on his behalf. how convenient, right?
fandom has an unfortunate habit of using their favorite character's childhood abuse to excuse their complicitness in the oppression of other characters or to imply their favorite characters have it "worse" than systemically oppressed characters. hinata fans do this, shouto fans do this (i say this as a shouto fan), zuko fans do this a lot (i say this as a zuko fan too), even sakura fans do this while manufacturing abusive parents for her in order to excuse what she said about orphans.
(it's because they fail to recognize systemic oppression is inherently violent and traumatizing)
naruto fans give sakura endless flack for making a mean comment about orphans that she herself acknowledged was wrong like 5 secs later, but nobody points out naruto parroting kakashi's disgusting comments about the uchiha clan in early part 1 and how his character arc only gets worse from there. they also dont ever mention that sakura was the only one to defend sasuke from those comments in both instances
On one level I feel like Sasuke’s idealization of Itachi towards the end is mostly a product of Kishimoto’s desire to have all the characters glorify Itachi and treat him like a saint so he can have his tragic plot twist hero character and no one questions how fucked up it is and so he can erase the rest of Sasuke’s clan and connections to his family but on the other I do think elements of it are realistic given how Obito kept telling Sasuke how much Itachi sacrificed for him and how his own sense of purpose and ideals and sense of self had already been tied to Itachi (antagonistically) for so long through trying to kill him, and how desperate he was to be loved in a way that connected him to his family. And he didn’t actually really believe that what Itachi did was right—if he had he wouldn’t have yelled at him for answers when he came back and he wouldn’t have chosen to oppose Konoha and the kages and essentially gone directly against everything Itachi stood for. I think the fact that on a very fundamental level he opposes the ideology that Itachi upheld but still feels a certain empathy for him and responsibility to him and contextualizes his worldview in reference to him does sort of make sense in a very sad way even if he would be completely justified in feeling nothing but hatred for him forever. I don’t think it was a good choice to have him refer to him in such heroic/valorizing terms though, and if that was going to be the case I wish we had seen a progression that didn’t result in concession to Konoha wherein he could accept that seeing Itachi in any kind of heroic light was deeply inaccurate and unhealthy
To be clear though I think this was all executed in a completely nonsensical way and was tied to how Kishimoto made Sasuke’s final plan really bad so he could justify discounting his ideology, and I really dislike how it played out overall, but I do think it had potential to be realistic and meaningful if it was handled with more nuance and Itachi’s character was thoroughly condemned
Yes yes exactly!!! Any form of this would be great. I think it would have been interesting if the stage where he really clings to Itachi’s memory was a temporary one, and maybe after Itachi comes back and fails to really give him any answers or admit that anything he did was wrong he seeks out more information about his clan and reforms his worldview based on his parents’ views
I know this is an older post (and I agree with all of it), but I wanted to share something I read a while back that really changed my perception on this topic/the way I personally go about rationalizing/understanding why so much of what occurs with the Uchiha feels unsatisfying.
Here's a link to the thread (lots of cool opinions/thoughts are expressed on it), but I'll try to crudely summarize what resonated the most with me. "Kishimoto's Writing On the Uchiha is Unironically A Good Example of Real Life Pro-Genocide Propaganda" by u/LivingwithStupidity.
To save space, thoughts under the cut:
Outside of our major characters (who all, to some degree, largely play antagonistic roles ie. Madara, Obito, Itachi, Sasuke, even Fugaku), the Uchiha rarely exist outside of the context of the massacre and even then, they are largely voiceless and nameless. This dehumanizes them in the narrative and robs them of individuality, especially as time progresses within the series. We naturally forget, for example, about the sweet old Uchiha aunty that runs a clan store in Sasuke's memories because she's never shown or brought up again. Outside of some hints in Sasuke's initial memories of the event that do not get repeated, we're not shown different generations of characters remembering their fallen Uchiha comrades/school friends, during later flashbacks to past wars we're not shown different Uchiha clan members fighting in the background (even though they were major participants who gave their lives in battle/on behalf of the village and operated as a founding clan - the only exception to this is Kagami and he is notably used as an exception to 'typical' Uchiha), we're not shown academy teachers having to redo their class rosters because all of their young Uchiha students were murdered, we're not shown any characters looking at empty shop stalls that used to be manned by noncombatant Uchiha characters and commenting on that loss of life/what it means to the village, etc. The rest of the in-universe world moves on and none of our major characters really call back into focus the humanity that was indiscriminately annihilated through the massacre - it laps at the surface through Sasuke's character/actions, but outside of its first introduction, it's never (imo) that explicit again. The closest we get to a proper callback to callous loss of life is Sasuke's reaction to Danzo's arm where it's revealed he violated and mutilated Uchiha bodies... but even this, I fear, is a bit too subtle for some people and it gets overlooked. Later, when Sasuke goes on to rightfully call out Konoha's crimes he specifically mentions his mother, father, and brother - and, again, I don't think this is enough to remind some readers of the sheer gravity of the tragedy at play here. Maybe even just one more line here, that reminded the reader innocent children, the infirmed, and noncombatants were murdered in their beds too, would have gone a long way... but the narrative (pointedly, in my opinion) doesn't take that necessary step. The loss of life isn't felt as vividly as it should be and I think it gives many readers license to dismiss Sasuke's grief and mission as 'unwarranted' (and it inspires the braindead 'well so-and-so suffered too/lost xyz and they didn't react like that' arguments when this tragedy, if you're capable of deeper analysis, is on a completely different scale/underscores an extremely unique injustice that is personal to Sasuke). There is a weight applied to Itachi's crimes when they're being discussed, but the critical human piece seems to be missing (imo) - hundreds of families massacred in one night is replaced all too simply with 'the clan' and I think the impact of the former gets handwaved by the phrasing of the latter.
The faulty eugenics arguments also serve as a simplistic 'see-I-told-you-so' that satisfies far too many and seems to justify, in their eyes, the complete destruction of the Uchiha bloodline and culture. Personally, if I can get a little 'real-world' here, I wonder if this is partially a symptom of poor education on genocide/the history of genocide. To me, Tobirama's unproven, disingenuous presentation on 'Uchiha genes' just reeks of 'Der Untermensch' propaganda and I think some people are far too generous in granting allowances for his very obviously pointed hatred and bias against this clan of people, especially when his direct actions as a person in power helped give rise to the eventual elimination of the Uchiha. For many people, this is all they need to know to now wipe their hands of this 'debate', call Sasuke 'crazy' and an 'edgy emo worked up over nothing' and point to this hateful eugenicist character that claims the sharingan makes 'these people' crazy so, of course, they 'self-destructed' (even if that was not the truth), of course, they're 'all bad and not worthy of Sasuke's efforts to preserve their memory/bring them justice', etc. Again, this works hand-in-hand with the previous point where we are pointedly not reminded that babies, children and everyday people without the sharingan, the elderly/infirmed, anyone who maybe had a dissenting opinion on this alleged coup - all of them - were lumped together on the basis of their 'genetic disposition and biological deficiencies' and thereby slaughtered without remorse. Now certain people can comfortably read pages upon pages of Itachi wank and be content with the knowledge that what Itachi did was justified/for the best because, well, the Uchiha are all nut-jobs. Yep, every single one. It's in their blood... just round 'em up and kill 'em. Right? These takes are so disgusting and continue to be persistent in this fandom.
Finally, as mentioned in this thread already, Itachi never comes full circle to acknowledge his own victimhood at the hands of the village nor does he express any direct regret of his actions against his kin. He does regret, partially, how he handled Sasuke (and imo even that gets less focus than I frankly feel it deserves within these discussions - not only did Itachi repeatedly torture and try to force his brother onto a path that suited Itachi/Itachi's whims he was also prepared to BRAINWASH his younger brother and, again, force him to serve the state regardless of Sasuke's own freewill/agency), but Itachi never outright states that he regrets the massacre specifically (just that things could have been different) nor does he draw his own conclusions about the village's failures and how he was absolutely groomed and victimized by Konoha's violent rhetoric + the greater shinobi system (particularly when Sasuke is trying to wrap his own head around this mess of contradictions). I mean, the weight of that is enormous and I think it's a disservice to both Sasuke and Itachi to not explore the implications of that. Editing to add (I had it in the tags, but I should probably put it here): I do think Itachi felt guilt, even if it wasn't completely articulated, and that is why he manipulated Sasuke into killing him, but the major problem (for myself and many) remains that to the very end he died proudly 'Itachi of Konoha' even though Konoha inexcusably harmed him, his beloved younger brother, and his entire family. Itachi acknowledging, in some way, that the village is harmful but there should be some way of fixing that (ie. inspiring Sasuke to contemplate how that could be/what that looks like) would have added some needed complexity to discourse centering on the harm of the shinobi world/what happens going forward. I'm aware there are different interpretations on Itachi's regret, I go back and forth on these interpretations.
All this to say, back to this original post, I would have loved to see more flashbacks with Sasuke exploring his relationship to his mother/father/the other Uchiha clan members. I would have loved to see more Uchiha merchants/laborers (or general noncombatants), cousins that Sasuke played with and met up with after his classes, elders that would sneak him treats during gatherings, etc.
Their clan-specific jutsu and symbols have meaning, there is cultural significance to them that Sasuke may or may not be familiar with and, in either case, that matters. When Sasuke realizes he'll never be able to ask his father or elders what 'xyz' means in relation to their clan and his heritage, that such knowledge is gone forever, that matters. When Sasuke starts to forget certain faces, or can't bring himself to recall those times without being reminded of their bloody slaughter (as Itachi designed), that matters. Anyone who thinks about what Sasuke has endured for more than 5 minutes likely understands that these conflicting feelings/questions constantly loom around his character - how does someone who has been through something so awful, who has completely lost everything, how do they continue to endure? But the issue, I think, is that the narrative fails to adequately highlight these ideas in a way that would not only be 1.) satisfying to those of us who resonate with/appreciate the character but 2.) be capable of inspiring empathy in readers who maybe don't have the background/knowledge/experience to grapple with the weight of Sasuke's reality (again, without more explicit focus from the narrative itself).
Naruto gets to see his father and mother in two extremely meaningful moments - they're story highlights for a reason. Naruto's experience with neglect, isolation, and lack of identity have been hallmarks informing his character since the beginning. That he is given the opportunity to directly reconcile with these feelings, is great, it's satisfying - we see how this character has hurt and how they've grown and we're happy to see them receive some semblance of closure after the difficult journey they've undergone. So, I'll always lament that the same was never extended to Sasuke. To have an alternative viewpoint to Itachi's, could have greatly influenced Sasuke's calculus as he tried to parse his thoughts/feelings regarding insurmountable grief, isolation, and loss. I mean, imagine if Fugaku and Mikoto were edo tensei'd... What would they have said to their youngest son who had been tasked with this impossible mission of bringing justice to their clan in the face of the pure evil injustice that the Leaf inflicted upon them? Would he have been given peace? Would they have relieved him of his quest so that he no longer needed to suffer? Would he listen? Idk, man, we were able to waste so many chapters on random fodder characters during the war arc, we couldn't be bothered to interact with any other Uchiha?
But... if we did present other Uchiha for the purpose of exploring what closure looks like for Sasuke (even outside of Fugaku and Mikoto, though I think they could have worked too), then we would be humanizing them in a way that conflicts with what the narrative seems to want us to take away from the village's (and Itachi's) actions. We can't humanize the Uchiha without calling out this horrifying wrong the Leaf has exercised... especially if there will not be any retribution (and don't get me wrong, that could be a fascinating, tragic story to explore, a really realistic one too lol - but I don't personally think that was ever the narrative's intention).
It really does just feel like a missed opportunity/mishandling of 'what could have been'.
At the end of the day, we have hints to this greater, underexplored Uchiha lore that are fascinating - like the Uchiha relationship to the Nekobaa, the Nakano shrine the Uchiha faithfully tended for generations, and Sasuke and Itachi having their fight in what was notably an impressive clan structure far from the village.
This was a group of people connected through a deep, undeniably rich culture. They weren't 'nobodies', they weren't 'crazy and irredeemable' - they were people and the narrative would love for you to forget that.
"Both Naruto and Sasuke compete for power and not compete for girls". Yes, but for Sasuke, the thought that there was something more than just a platonic relationship between Naruto and Sakura deeply annoyed him and made him jealous
Sakura just gave a slight smile to Naruto, thanking him for saving her - and Sasuke immediately worried that Sakura might like him romantically, eventhough Sakura only loves Sasuke. The romantic jealousy which drove Sasuke to challenge himself & kept training until he's exhausted
And the memory of Sakura smiled Naruto (which she looks so beautiful on his POV) truly ingrained on Sasuke's mind and literally that's what he kept thinking about when he's in a hospital bed. And he looks so misserable when thinking about it.
An interesting little fun thing with team 7 is that you assume that Sakura's gonna, like, woobify and simplify Sasuke by putting him on a pedastal,cause her goal is centered around him and shes a 12 y/o fangirl so like of course her understanding of him is skewed cause she doesnt see him as a person, just an object of affection, right? She's can't get Sasuke, can't imprint on and/or traumabond with him like Naruto and Kakashi do. They don't see him with rose tinted glasses, because they've lived through their own Horrors and empathize with Sasuke's experience.
......right?
WRONG lmao!! They have too many ghosts!! Naruto's single-minded codependent ass won't get out of his own way long enough to see Sasuke for who he actually is, only able to empathize with the parts of his trauma Naruto relates to and not really capable of understanding him outside of the context of himself (because Sasuke is. His other half). And Kakashi is far too jaded to be fair to him!! He can't decide if Sasuke is gonna end up as a mini-him or a mini-Obito or maybe a mini-Itachi, but either way he ALSO is too traumatized to see Sasuke AS SASUKE.
meanehile SAKURA'S autistic ass may have dogshit empathy, but you know what she does have? A special interest in sasuke. Nothing better to do then give herself a degree in Uchihaisms. She can write character studies about him. she can read his soul. Whenever she says something about him she is right. Every fucking time! She is RIGHT!!!!
'sasuke would NOT compliment me this directly or explicitly express worry unprompted, especially if it gets in the way of his goals' correct.
'Sasuke shouldn't hide that curse on his neck its not healthy BUT if I tell anyone about it he'll never trust me again, which might be even more dangerous for him then the curse mark. Like he can probably handle the curse mark but no one else can stop him from ripping peoples arms off.' correct.
Speaking of! 'Sasuke would not hurt me even when he seems to be...possessed? whatever the only way to knock him out of it is to present myself as Alive and thus something to be protected rather then something to be avenged, because he gets really stuck in his own head about revenge' CORRECT
'hey so um. like. Sasuke's gonna leave Konoha. I'm not sure anything can stop him at this point and honestly I'm kinda starting to doubt anything should, so the only thing I could possibly do to help him at this point is ALSO defect.' CORRECT!!!!
Here's why I really love Sasuke and Itachi's parents, and why it makes complete sense that he'd want justice for them. Pro all these characters.
There's a lot that can be said about how Mikoto and Fugaku raised Itachi, how the boys got compared to each other, and how more often than not parents get more practice with parenting the more children they have, and so the last child gets to know them at a different parenting skill level...
But.
It really says a lot that Sasuke was able to actually go ahead and ask his mother a very difficult question for a child. It's easy to imagine that it's not the first time he came to her with a tough question, and it shows that she was a safe person for him to talk to.
And I like what she replied, too. I love how calm she was, a lot of parents and caregivers would absolutely take it personally and punish the child for daring to ask such a thing. Not Mikoto. She's listening.
Then she tells Sasuke that it only seems that Fugaku is paying more attention to Itachi because he's older and one day he will inherit his father's position. And more importantly,
Mikoto explains that basically Fugaku is generally sullen and awkward but it doesn't have to mean anything, and when they talk in private, he does talk about Sasuke all the time.
And if mother says that father talks to her about him, it's enough for Sasuke, he doesn't need to hear his father's words with his own ears. He doesn't sit there wondering, well great but what if I had never asked, because that kind of world isn't possible for him. He lives in a world where it is safe to ask his mother such things.
Right after that, Fugaku arrives and they have tea together. Sasuke doesn't feel comfortable asking why exactly his father and Itachi fought, at least not right now, but he does ask about the Sharingan, and says he'll master it one day because he is his son, which makes Mikoto smile:
She's glad to see that Sasuke is already acting like a boy who knows that he's important to his father, who never doubted that. He's acting like this to see if what Mikoto said really is true, and she doesn't take this personally either. She knows that Fugaku will respond in a way that Sasuke will appreciate.
And then the best thing happens.
Sasuke is brave enough now to talk to his father the same way he talked to his mother just earlier. If he wasn't safe to ask stuff like this before, he is now. He responded well to Sasuke's first question, about the Sharingan, and now he's asking something a lot more personal. He doesn't wait for Fugaku to leave so he can ask Mikoto instead.
We're shown that Fugaku is the same as Mikoto in the sense that he doesn't reject Sasuke just for asking such a thing, or even for thinking it, like many parents are capable of doing, he takes his question seriously, he doesn't even always have to be awkward, he trusts his young son with something surprisingly vulnerable:
So in short:
Sasuke: mom, why doesn't dad pay attention to me?
also Sasuke: dad, why doesn't my brother pay attention to me?
Basically, even though Sasuke did have some difficulties at home, we see that both his parents were in fact open to communication, and I'm getting the impression that they regret not being able to do better with Itachi. In any case, Sasuke can be confident after this that both his parents care about his feelings, and that he can ask them anything. That if more problems appear they can be solved through communication.
How many children have parents like that?
And who wouldn't want to turn the world upside down to avenge them?
P.S.
I also think that this is what enabled Sasuke's interest in the truth later on, to the point that he would resurrect the previous Hokage to hear it. He's always been a questioner, and it was never frowned upon or rejected, he was loved unconditionally underneath it all, even if it did take, well, a bit of questioning to learn that.
Yeah!! 🍅🥰🤗
I bet they would have been the best in-laws too lol
Sakura in the first series goes through one of the more important character developments. She starts out as naive, book smart, absolutely upreared for horrors of combat and war. Her views are simple and childishly self-centered, she doesn’t yet grasp the severity of life and death. She calls Naruto annoying, making snarky remarks at him. “Orphan” doesn’t fully register in her brain, because she’s young, naive and unaware. She is very quickly confronted by Sasuke, proved wrong and called “annoying” back. And that’s enough to make her think.
During the bell tests, Sasuke shows her his darkness and she seems taken aback. A slow realization creeps into her but it only fully blooms during the Zabuza arc. She sees poverty, pain and death, and as she walks through impoverished village she realizes that life isn’t simple and colorful. It’s scary and anything she has read from any of her books didn’t prepare her for almost witnessing her teammate die. Being a ninja is not a game.
She doubts herself, because despite what some people try to insinuate, she’s fully aware of her cons and shortcomings. Sasuke helps her out of that self doubt, because he likes her. She’s his teammate and when he almost died, she cried over him. And it feels nice and kinda fuzzy even, to have somebody care about you that much, but Sasuke would never admit that (Why would he say “you’re heavy”? He should’ve say “I’m alive” or even “get off” but he doesn’t. He speaks up to inform her he’s fine, but by that he also acknowledges their closeness and does not refuse it! It’s such a Sasuke thing to say, I could talk about this for hours)
Forest of Death is the prime Sasusaku. I don’t understand how could somebody watch/read through it and not see it. There’s of course a lot of fear and pain but there’s also so much closeness and comfort and genuine care for one another. It’s a very important arc for the whole Team 7 but I’d argue it’s mainly Sasuke & Sakura’s. Sakura especially, as we see her develop a wider understanding of her place as a person, as a teammate and as a ninja. How she finally stumbles into action, saving Naruto from a fall and yelling at Sasuke. Because god, if anyone is going to do anything about this absolutely terrifying ninja, with a power they haven’t seen even from Zabuza, it’s Sasuke.
There’s this guilt of her own weakness looming over her as she takes care of her teammates. But she tries her best because someone has to, because she wants to. She wants to be stronger, to help but, most importantly, she wants Sasuke and Naruto to be safe.
It’s no wonder people think of Sasuke’s seal awakening as one of the most powerful scene of this arc. Because sure, it’s badass and cool but what’s most important about it is often missed. When Sasuke wakes up, brought from the brink of death by his own strong will, he is furious. But it’s not a mindless rage, it’s not like Naruto’s nine tails transformation. The seal is not a being on its own, it just pulls on the deepest, darkest strings of his mind. On his insecurities, his dreams, his trauma, his worst qualities. It’s still Sasuke, asking Sakura who did this to her. It’s still Sasuke attacking the Sound-ninja. It’s only when he engages and even takes joy from his cruelty Sakura realizes it’s not him. Because Sasuke is kind, cold but extremely caring, because he can get carried away but never like this.
The fact that people can read these chapters, hell, the whole manga and still think that Sasuke hates Sakura, that she doesn’t know him, that Sakura herself is a selfish, shallow characters is mind-boggling.
tl;dr: Sakura is a greatly developed character and first part Sasusaku is so well written it makes me want to cry fkljsd.
do you think that people that praise nobara but bash sakura actually cares about a good written female character in the shonen? idk it seems like ppl attach this title to female characters that have a “no shit attitude” and good physical strength. but what’s wrong with being vulnerable and insecure but having the agency to grow from it? In fact, I would argue sakura has more agency and these traits and complexity than nobara does.
Bluntly speaking? No, I don’t think they do. To me, what’s been so influential about Sakura as a character and her impact on female shounen heroines to follow is the fact that she is very much a product of shoujo tropes and narratives moreso than shounen ones, and that caught people off guard (to the point that it angered them, obviously). I would actually say that what makes her so likeable and relatable to me as a character is that emotionally she’s far more messy than Naruto or Sasuke, who are actually pretty straight laced in the majority of their actions and decisions. They respond very logically to their individual traumas in opposing manners, and that’s what sets the stage for their series-long clash as rivals or something more.
Sakura, in comparison, isn’t someone whose feelings, decisions, or actions are as clear cut. In the beginning, she’s a little bit selfish, a little bit mean, and it takes the range of her experiences during Part I to mold her into someone with a broader sense of empathy and kindness. Sakura is a normal girl living a normal life who just wants to have a normal crush, until she’s thrust into a team of people all traumatized in some of the worst ways possible, and she has to learn to cope with that while maintaining her own sense of identity and purpose. That’s something that especially becomes a focal point of her growth after the time skip, and as a whole it’s a narrative arc very reflective of the classic shoujo. The thing about her story that’s compelling is there’s this constant back and forth between loyalty to love or duty. Sakura is someone dedicated to building up her strength and skill for the purpose of contributing to and supporting her village, but at heart she’s also the same girl from her childhood who just wants to live a normal life, for her friends to be okay, and for the boy she loves to realize that he is someone worthy of love in the first place. The complexity of that interplay over the course of Part II absolutely fascinates me, especially because it’s something she struggles so much with. A lot of people tend to act like Sakura is naïve or blind to the reality of her circumstances, but I would argue that she’s the most emotionally and realistically grounded member of her team. It’s what makes her internal emotional struggle so hard, because she’s fully aware of the realities, but they nonetheless break her heart and she doesn’t actually like having to acknowledge them. It’s an incredibly human response, and why I think her actions during the Kage Summit Arc and even afterward are so understandable, because, yes, there is strife and blood and war, but doesn’t love still mean something in the end? I think shounen fans who tend to hate her absolutely abhor that aspect of her character, because they can’t stand to see someone who would dare go against the grain of what makes battle shounen so addictive and enjoyable a genre. They’re being asked to contend with a character with more complex motivations and feelings, and they can’t stand it, especially because that complexity manifests in the form of a character who doesn’t have the heart to hurt the people she loves, because more than anything, she just wants them to be okay first. It’s not wrong that Naruto’s philosophy with regards to Sasuke is to fight violence with violence, that’s his prerogative, and there’s reasoning behind it. But there’s also nothing wrong with Sakura trying to appeal to Sasuke’s emotional side first, especially since he is someone who has been so thoroughly traumatized into relying on violence as a coping mechanism. That’s something she acutely recognizes, and yet somehow, it’s almost impossible for a good portion of shounen fans to recognize this themselves, and so you have either people who egg on Sasuke’s dismissive behavior with her or people who act like he’s the devil incarnate because his extensive trauma makes him respond non-ideally. There’s no room for nuance, because at the end of the day, a girl who cries over the boy she loves, or who cries at all, is a miserable human being and has no place in a shounen, regardless of her feats otherwise.
And then, we have Nobara, who admittedly is a cool character, too! I like how her back story shapes her philosophy with regards to her admiration of and cooperation with the people around her, and how that mindset of hers grows and changes as she spends time with the other students at Jujutsu High. But, while it does present an interesting premise and fairly logical growth pattern, there’s honestly. . . not much more to it beyond that? Nobara is never paid the same amount of attention by the narrative as are Yuji and Megumi, and then it’s not like challenges to her philosophy are a significant focal point of the story (in the sense that it’s not really like her personal arc majorly shapes the story itself). It shows up where it’s needed, and then it’s more or less pretty neatly resolved and tied up with its own bow within a hundred or so chapters. Could she come back from the “dead”, and there theoretically be more done with her character? Maybe. The recent interview from Gege where he talks about the circumstances of her death was interesting. But something he also talked about in that interview is how the series is more than halfway over, and it’s like, is there really a lot more that he can accomplish with her narrative arc when there’s so much else that’s more important and needs to be resolved? I think people like Nobara because she’s someone confident in her own motives and her own sense of self, and that’s great! I love to see characters like that. But it’s also ridiculous to see her constantly lauded over Sakura when she’s hardly afforded a comparable significance to her own story, let alone an extensive character arc where her own personal development matters and is constantly challenged at large. People are far more concerned with dominant expressions of feminism, and that being synonymous with a “strong” female character, than anything actually bordering on a complex and fully realized character. And I don’t mean this in any sense as a criticism to people who like Nobara’s character. I’m just saying that it’s sad to see shounen fans constantly settle for bare minimum and not ask for more, or seek out more for themselves. Nobara, and several of the other female characters in Jujutsu Kaisen, deserve to have their narratives and characters be fleshed out on par with those of the boys. I wish more people were willing to acknowledge that.
ellievsbear
tangentwithtanner
andulkaphoto
baratheonpilled
turnnoffyourmind
