JENNIFER ALLEN: How did Atelier van Lieshout evolve into AVL-Ville?
JOEP VAN LIESHOUT: We were making more and more artworks about self-sufficiency—mobile homes and containers for various activities—so the idea of an autonomous village was already taking shape. Then, in 1998, we got a commission to design an urban-planning project for Almere, a new city that the Dutch government began building in the province of Flevoland in the '70s. We came up with a plan for "Free State Almere," which would have sealed off the city from the rest of the country. Unfortunately, our proposal was rejected, so we decided to create our own free state around the atelier. I wanted to make a beautiful spot for people who work at AVL. We're not interested in having everyone come to live at AVL-Ville; it's intended only for past, current, and future employees. Currently, five of our interns live here, and more of our workers plan to move in this summer. Maybe in twenty years AVL-Ville will be bigger, but it'll never be massive. Right now, it's about the size of a few football fields.
JA: Apart from the studio, you already have AVL-Hospital, 1998, as well as containers for making weapons, bombs, alcohol, and medicine—plus there's a canteen. What other services will residents be able to enjoy?
JVL: We offer housing to people who work in the studio. After a year, when they've shown that they're serious, they can build a house according to their own design on the premises. The materials will be paid for by AVL, but the employees will have to build the structure themselves. That's it. They don't have to pay rent, so it's a cheap way to live. We also have a farm, The Pioneer Set, 1999–2000, which produces organically grown food. Everything is mobile, even the trees and plants; because we have little land, we have to use it intensively. Within a year, the farm will be operational and produce food for our kitchen and restaurant. We'll have a cooking club where you can eat, make meals, and learn new recipes. Soon we will open AVL Academy, 2001, which can be used by people from the studio and from outside AVL-Ville.
JA: What can one expect to be on the curriculum at AVL Academy?
JVL: Everything you never learned in art school: specific technical skills like working with fiberglass and wood, as well as management and marketing. It's not only for artists and designers, but also for people from the business world who can learn a different, more creative way of thinking. The academy will bring together the best of both worlds, so artists can learn from managers and vice versa. We'll even have philosophy courses, but they will be very practical. Try to become friends with a cow. Be a farmer for a while. Do something very slowly. Do something complex in a short time. We won't be sitting around reading books, because we're people who communicate with feelings and visual effects.
JA: You're the founding father of AVL-Ville. Are you going to be the mayor, too?
JVL: There won't be a mayor. There won't be a government, or a democracy. AVL-Ville has a structure, but it's not a political one with voting; it will be run like a company. Besides, it's such a small society, there's no need to add such complex systems. It's more important to have good management that can take many points of view into consideration. I'm the artistic director, and Jeroen Thomas is the general director of business and finance. Together with the other AVL members, we'll make the decisions.
JA: What's the difference between AVL-Ville and a company that offers bonuses to dedicated, hard-working employees?
JVL: We give away a piece of land and housing to our employees. Since AVL is paying for a large part of people's lives, we are more like communists, although we don't have a communist political system. Our work is based on piracy, not politics or policy. Companies offer incentives to employees to increase productivity and profits; we use the money we make from commissions to invest in other projects that we think are important but may not be profitable. We aren't going to earn a dime from housing or even from the farm, but earning money isn't interesting. It's more important to create something special, to make something different happen.
JA: Do Dutch laws have jurisdiction over AVL-Ville?
JVL: We're subject to Dutch laws, but we're not interested in respecting them. Right now, we're trying to get a blank building permit. We could wait for approval, but we decided to keep on building. If we already have ten buildings, then it'll be difficult for the city to stop us. That's why we get so much done. We don't secure things; we simply do them. Later we see if it gets approved. Besides the blank building permit, AVL-Ville will have its own constitution, which promotes individual freedom, honesty, and equality. Our rules are all based on common sense. If there's a problem, you try to solve it. Pragmatism would be the correct term, but it's more about finding solutions and solving problems. I would call it "solvism."
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