i don't give a shit!

Ryo, 30, ♂, gay, trans Making fandom a better place with kindness, rationality and hopefully, education. WARNINGS: rape, CSA, incest, domestic violence and other common triggers, pls consult the tag page if you need to blacklist anything for your own safety.

[rottenboysclub]

This tag is full of people who seem to think that fudanshi means something bad, so I want to clear up some misconceptions.

It’s just the Japanese word for a male fan of fictional m x m comics/stories: A male slash fan - that’s all! (source: http://jisho.org/search/fudanshi )

For instance, I’m a fudanshi. That just means I’m a man that likes m x m fiction. I’m gay, too. Not all gay men are fudanshi, though, and not all fudanshi are gay, but plenty of us are. My fiance (a cis gay man) is a fudanshi too.

If you hate male slash fans purely for being slash fans, then whatever, I can’t change your opinion. However, if you’re calling yourself anti fudanshi thinking it means something else, then I would beg you to reconsider. If you’re anti fudanshi, by definiton that means you don’t like men who like m x m fiction.

[ryo-strider]

imho, being anti-fudanshi is nothing but homophobic, too. It’s saying you’re bothered by men liking seeing two men being together romantically or sexually... I don’t know how people, especially girls or straight folk, don’t see how this is absolutely homophobic in connotation.

To police a gay/bi/pan man’s interest in m/m content like that is inarguably homophobic... and most of the female-aligned or attracted people I see do this like GL or het stuff that is definitely written by cis men and is sexist, possibly fetishistic, etc. It’s incredibly hypocritical--ALL of them like something from something that has problematic portrayals/etc but it’s unforgivably to like any BL? Nevermind that there’s so much BL, both published and just shipping that’s not at all gross or badly portrayed.

[himedanshi-archive]

I’m going to marry @ryo-strider

[ryo-strider]

Can we play this at our reception on a projector 

[isakashi]

also if you're underaged what business do you have watching a show full of nudity, sex and rape scenes?

I had already read the manga before watching but okay.

[mfishet]

A seventeen year old shouldn’t be reading that manga either

[isakashi]

So a 17 year old can’t read a manga about teenagers but adults can? I smell bullshit.

[ryo-strider]

I’m sorry, but do you need a baby-sitter? Devilman has always been an adult comic, it’s not “a comic with teenagers” in it, it’s a comic with explicit sexual + gore imagery. You can choose to read it, yes, we probably all chose to read or watch adult things we should not have when we were teens. 

Devilman is not something that should be read by minors, but Devilman crybaby, literally rated TV-MA, which means explicit sex and graphic violence, should especially not be watched by anyone under 18. The manga I could let slide, but the anime is explicit right from episode 1 and warns appropriately… 

[dilutedd]

it’s literally impossible to self harm by reading through the ace discourse tag. if you think that qualifies as self harm, you are trivializing actual experiences with self harming behavior by comparing it to lgbt people not wanting to be around their oppressors.

[pro-survivors]

Did you know it’s possible to self-harm by looking at media which triggers you or causes anxiety?

Maybe tags full of people violently delegitimizing your orientation would trigger someone or cause anxiety?

[dilutedd]

oh really, lgbt people worried about THEIR SAFETY FROM THEIR OPPRESSORS triggers you?

sounds like you’re a homophobe.

[pro-survivors]

Not me particularly, but discourse can be a trigger for anyone, yes. I know people who fall under your ‘lgbtpn’ who are triggered by ace discourse. 

[dilutedd]

surprise fuckass i’m ace and “self harming by viewing ace discourse” is fake and homophobic, and by continuing that idea you’re a homophobe.

[pro-survivors]

[dilutedd]

me: when you act like lgbt people being upset about their safety being compromised is a “trigger” you’re being homophobic

you:

[pro-survivors]

Me: trying to explain how people are capable of self harming indirectly through viewing things that exacerbate existing anxiety or mental illness

You, surely getting the notes about how this is the case for others:

[ryo-strider]

I’m sorry OP is having trouble understanding that it has nothing to do with the discourse being ace related... looking at ANY discourse, no matter which side for extended periods of time triggers stress and anxiety in me. It’s not about what side or right and wrong a lot of the time, the stress comes from multiple factors and doesn’t instantly make someone homophobic. I.e., I, personally, as a gray-ace gay trans guy, get really anxious paying too much attention to ANY ace discourse, whether I agree with it or not. There are arguments on both sides that exasperate me, and discourse itself, especially when no one is listening to one another and actually having a discussion, makes me anxious. Therefore, looking at ANY discourse tag is self-harming behavior, unless I back out very quickly.

It’s not that hard to understand, OP. Even someone on your side of the goalpost choosing to look through the ace discourse tag could be self-harming (and many do). In fact, pretty much any of us that purposely look up discourse are self-harming. You should try asking a psychiatrist, I’m pretty sure they would correlate that going out of your way to expose yourself to stuff that stresses you out/makes you anxious is self-harming, even if you didn’t have the thought “boy gee I’m going to self-harm!” before diving in to the tag.

[thatshamelessyaoishipper]

I wasn’t going to talk about the recent doujinshi issue we’ve had in the yoi fandom because I don’t want to bring more attention to it but there’s one thing I must say:

If you’ve read it and felt upset by it, that is okay. You are not overreacting, you are not oversensitive, you are not dramatic. It is okay to get upset over upsetting content.

I’ve been seeing a lot of people saying that talking negatively about the doujinshi or talking about your bad experience with it is “overreacting”. That “they’ve seen worse”. That “if you don’t like the contents then you shouldn’t read it”.

And listen - if you’re desensitized enough to not be affected by it, you’re very lucky! I’m happy for you, really. But please do not invalidate other people’s experiences and dismiss their feelings just because you don’t understand their distress.

Theoretically, I’ve also “read worse” but this particular thing made me sick to my stomach and made me profoundly uncomfortable. And that’s also normal - if people have an emotional attachment to the characters in question then they may react differently than they would otherwise, even if it’s just a random fanwork.

And that’s another point - yes, the work is appropriately tagged but you may think it won’t affect you, that you can read it, but at the end of the day no one knows how you’ll end up reacting to the content. I’ve read comments from people who have read much worse, much more triggering content and who stopped reading this dj halfway through, walking away from it sobbing and nauseous. I usually agree with “don’t like, don’t read” but I think it doesn’t apply to a case like this, precisely because of how big this issue has become in the fandom. People read it out of morbid curiosity, ignoring the tags, because everyone, both people saying that “it’s not that bad” and people literally crying over it are egging them on to do it.

And yes, I do think that at the end of the day, we are responsible for the content we consume - I knew what I was getting into so I’m not mad at anyone else, no one forced me to read it. But in this case, I think this content should be removed because it may be mentally scarring to people, especially considering how fluffy the yoi fandom usually is. For some people, this may be their first experience with such violent, unpleasant content and it may affect them more than those jaded “fandom moms” who have “read worse” and lived to tell the tale. Not to mention that we have a lot of minors in the fandom and you know they’re going to go out there and read it out of curiosity and then regret it. I don’t believe in censorship or hiding content usually but USUALLY these things are incredibly niche, they do not reach anyone beyond their target audience. We’ve accepted that people who enjoy such questionable (to say the least) content dwell in the dark corners of the fandom but when these things are dragged out into broad daylight, I think something should be done.

At the end of the day, the best argument to removing the doujinshi is that it was uploaded without the artist’s permission - and this amount of exposure may affect them badly because this doujin was created for probably like 30 people in the first place.

I don’t think the artist should “die” because of a terrible doujin, I don’t think they should be hurt because of it either. I think all we want now is for the doujin to be removed so that more people don’t accidentally hurt themselves through curiosity.

Also NO, I WILL NOT GIVE YOU THE TITLE, PLEASE DO NOT ASK FOR IT. Like I said, I do not want to bring more attention to it. I just wanted to say that it’s okay to react negatively to it, that no one has a right to dismiss your feelings just because they feel differently.

[himedanshi-archive]

1.) Myreadingmanga’s content is like 90% problematic and most, if not all things are tagged accordingly. The cover of the DJ should have given away what was going to happen. HOWEVER I was even surprised by what happened near the end, but I don’t agree with the reasons for why it was removed with the exception that it was uploaded without the artist’s permission. 

2.) We are not responsible for minors who don’t listen and go with their morbid curiosity. We’re not responsible for them regardless because this is the internet and I don’t know you. I agree things should be tagged accordingly though.

3.) “it may be mentally scarring to people, especially considering how fluffy the yoi fandom usually is” Then don’t go on MRM then? No, seriously. As someone who’s frequented that site for years, I would not recommend going on it because there’s at least 2-5 doujins a day that get uploaded onto that site which contain rape or something else that’s problematic. I get being a minor that’s curious and reads shit they’re not supposed to; I was that teen, I really was but you knew what you were getting into.

4.) There’s still some noncon doujins in the YoI tag on MRM. What about those?

The only time I will ever agree with the removal of a doujinshi or another piece of fanwork is when it is uploaded without the artist’s permission. 

[ryo-strider]

OP, the parts in your post about it being okay to get upset at things/ppl's feelings being valid and it being wrong to belittle those feelings is great, the rest... not so much.

My biggest problem, though, is this: “At the end of the day, the best argument to removing the doujinshi is that it was uploaded without the artist’s permission.” If you read on myreadingmanga, or any other site with doujins, if you read doujins period, raw or translated, what you just said is so wishy-washy I'm honestly astonished. The best argument to removing this one doujin that bothered you is the argument that should have all doujins on the website removed, which would be most of myreadingmanga period. Are you serious? If you really cared about that, you wouldn't be reading doujins at all unless you bought them yourself.

Advocating for individual doujins like this to be removed for content you find upsetting is a slippery slope that will only lead to censorship (especially of things not as obscene, i.e. if a similar doujin was actually less of a horribly noncon scenario for the sake of it and more about the victim and his suffering + recovery). You yourself said that you don't believe in censorship, so you should maybe act like it? This sounds exactly like the people that believe some things should be taken down from AO3, when the exact reason AO3 was made was so that people could upload literally anything to the site without fear of it being taken down (so long as it's properly tagged/warned). We all know that the second you let that happen, people will start abusing their power and blurring the lines between what is and isn't acceptable, and using their own biases or others' concerned feelings that likely come from bias also to take things down, etc.

I think the main point though, is that sites like these aren't meant to cater to everybody... they have tags for a reason. If you look through a tag or something with a certain thing tagged you should know what you are possibly in for. If I read something tagged "rape", "shota", "bestiality", etcetera and then get upset or sickened by what I read, it was my own fault. Giving in to the curiosity and hype drummed up by other people is not their fault, either; it would only be mine, and anyone else's who braved checking it out.

There's a very real reason I've never gone out of my way to try to see 2 Girls 1 Cup. Literally YEARS I have resisted the temptation of curiosity because I know what it entails and I really don't want to see it. If you dive in to something despite reading the tags and get upset by it, the responsibility is on you.

[deadiscourse]

IM SCREAMING ANTI MALADIN IS A THING

(this is a fraction of the post)

[coffeeshiro]

I’m dead they decided it was problematic that Matt likes Allura just to justify their ship

[the-salt]

[himedanshi-archive]

I’m gonna ship Mance, Meith, Munk…….all of’em

[ryo-strider]

omg I’m sorry I’m just laughing so hard at Maladin... it sounds like a disease. Like I am absolutely not going to be able to take it seriously every time I see it.

[himedanshi-archive]

That feel when OP doesn’t have any good rebuttals 

[rose-against-dersecest]

I’m laughing! You don’t think I’m gay, fam??? Get fucked lmao

[himedanshi-archive]

Never said that you weren’t; so don’t put words in my mouth, fam.

I’m laughing too, ‘cause gays can still be homophobic (example), trans people can still be transphobic. You might be gay but I don’t think you know what homophobic exactly is.

And I do get fucked nigga, very nicely, thank you.

[rose-against-dersecest]

HSJKSJOSIS JK HHSJSKHSKSKHHH are you black please tell me you are b/c holy fuck if you’re a non black person saying the n word that’s fucked up.

& I agree! And your partner likes homophobic shit lmao

[ryo-strider]

Do you ever give people the benefit of the doubt without being inflammatory and assuming shit about them?

Also, I don’t like anything homophobic (not FOR being homophobic), I again must tell you that Homestuck was at times homophobic, and you are clearly capable of liking it while not thinking you yourself are a homophobe (while judging and shaming mlm so harshly over fiction, you exercise that you are indeed one but I digress).

Please explain to me why you think TB/X is homophobic, though. Accurately portraying abuse and trauma, PTSD etc sure doesn’t seem homophobic to me (not to say the series does not have flaws, it certainly does).

The joke is also on you! My boyfriend, on average, ships far more fucked up things than I do, at least more frequently, but please do tell on me to him like he doesn’t know!

[ryo-strider]

I wish your hateful anons could fucking read lol. Wow! So threatening wow, a scary anon telling you to go choke! You sure showed this dude! Shit nigga...I'm absolutely terrified. Also, there was nothing nsfw about those images, nothing shippy....I don't feel bad for that person because they literally set themselves up for this. They had a shitty attitude and were shitty to people lol. Your abuse doesn't give you leeway to be a shitty person w/o remorse.

I’m so glad that I’m can just read this in the exact voice and tone I know you’d say it via voice LOLLLL

And yep, if any of it was making out or god forbid SEX I would not have shoved the cap in an anti-incest person’s face, because... shocking, I know.... I’m not a fan of purposely triggering people. ‘Cause I’m not an asshole.

[ryo-strider]

did u literally just how a survivor pics of incest to make a point that wasnt even true? maybe choke instead next time lol

None of these images are overt, nor even possible to see at the resolution they are in in this screencap. A few extremely vague suggestions of readable-as-gen daverose and a link to the ship tag on AO3 that does not describe the pair at all.

Again: she chose to use the name daverose while admitting she knew it would make people assume she shipped incest, whose fault is this, exactly? Plus she admitted to me that she used to ship incest, and she was actively engaging with a bunch of people on this topic. Acting like I purposely exposed her to horrifying imagery is a severe stretch of the truth (in fact, I wouldn’t have shown any cap at all if it displayed anything explicitly incestuous)

Ah yes, my second threat of violence in an ask. What a mature and great person you are!

[ryo-strider]

that person literally don't ship incest lol why dont you find something better to do than defend abuse ur literally 30 lol

Gee anon, I’m sorry that besides saying anti-incest in their description, that literally was not apparent to me because they were toting around an incest username, and it was quite common for people to not realize that rosedave, johnjane etc were incest to begin with.

Where did I defend abuse? Abuse is terrible. Properly portraying abuse as abuse in fiction and advocating for peoples’ right to do that is not defending abuse, my child. Exploring abuse in fiction is not condoning it, especially not if its by survivors using it to cope and explore their own abuse, but common sense isn’t really your guys’ thing, is it?

[ryo-strider]

Thank you for the wonderful response, @zorilleerrant ! I did not want to clog my blog with yet another reblog of that post just to thank you for your contribution. <3

[rose-against-dersecest]

Why are so many trans guys into str/idercest…. you disappoint me.

[pro-survivors]

Perhaps because trans men don’t need your approval to ship something. I get the impression they’re better off for it, considering you’re telling people they’re disappointing based off a personal headcanon.

[rose-against-dersecest]

You’re not a trans man so why do you think I care about your hot take™ on this. Go away.

[pro-survivors]

So the real hot take™ is that only trans men can speak up about transphobia directed at trans men? nice. 

[himedanshi-archive]

As a trans man I don’t give a shit about your opinion, OP. There, does that make you feel any better?

@anti-anti-survivor don’t even bother with this person LOL

[ryo-strider]

Trans man here that was deep in Homestuck and its fandom through its peak. Wanna know something? It’s probably because back then, this kind of anti attitude–that you can’t ship anything problematic, like incest or abuse–was only just starting to get loud and catch on after Homestuck’s Prime, when the comic was most popular and the fandom was most active. Stridercest was very popular, and I believe part of why you see so many mlm openly shipping it now is simply because they did back then, before it was bullied into people that shipping fictional incest was wrong. I saw occasionally grossed out posts (which are valid! Being triggered or upset by incest is 100% valid!), but there was no such popular public expectation to not ship these things. I shipped it myself (mind you, like most people, without addressing that it was abusive, which it is even if you don’t ship it), but I shipped a bunch of other things more, including the fluffiest shit you could imagine like Dave/Tavros.

Secondly… because I remember a thing or two from Homestuck, I hopped onto Rose’s wikia page, and what do I see there?

Hey. Before you go on shaming mlm for shipping incest, why don’t you stop shipping incest yourself? And don’t give me that “they never knew they were genetically related” bullshit as a defense. Dave and Rose are Brother and Sister, so, I ask you: Why are you a hypocrite?

[rose-against-dersecest]

MY URL IS IRONIC AND I DON’T SHIP DAVE AND ROSE. GOD I KNEW THIS WOULD HAPPEN EVENTUALLY BUT IT’S BEEN LITERALLY NOT EVEN A DAY SINCE MY URL CHANGE

[ryo-strider]

Then… why did you take it as a username? You should not be surprised, it is literally the ship name/tag for the ship and a google search proves that. 

Also, honey… I’m sorry you were bullied out of shipping incest and are now self-righteously bullying people out of shipping incest, might I suggest taking a walk, playing a video game, or writing or drawing some Homestuck fan content? Things that make you happy?

[rose-against-dersecest]

Holy shit. You’re thirty years old.

And I learned from the Osomatsu-san fandom why shipping incest leads to worse things! But you seem to be in the Clamp fandom with a source material that is infamously homophobic so w/e fam.

[ryo-strider]

Wow, yes I am; you say that like it is a bad thing or shocking, like I must have no experience and knowledge about fandom at all when I have over a decade’s worth.

Anything bad that any blmatsus ever did (i.e., be Todokaras and exist for example) has nothing to do with shipping incest, but them being shitty people. Even I will admit there are a lot of gross people in the Osomatsu-san fandom!

Oh? Pray tell, what are you assuming of me? I don’t ship Seishirou/Subaru, if that’s what you’re assuming, and I don’t respect anyone that does while not shipping it as the accurate abuse that it is. Has Homestuck never been homophobic, transphobic, sexist or racist? It has, if you’re trying to be a smartass: liking a source material does not mean you agree with everything in it nor how it was portrayed, Homestuck has MANY things in it to criticize the portrayal of, as do CLAMP works, but that vague “infamously homophobic” is bullshit and assuming someone’s morals align with everything portrayed in a series is childish and hypocritical of you.

I wonder if you know that I identify with Subaru because I was also abused, and that is a common thread in people that love the character, especially in X, at least those that I also know.

Also, you are choosing to engage with people. You chose to don an ironic username of an incestuous ship... if that gave you a panic attack, why are you taking multiple steps to expose yourself to things that trigger you? Please protect yourself.

[rose-against-dersecest]

Why are so many trans guys into str/idercest…. you disappoint me.

[pro-survivors]

Perhaps because trans men don’t need your approval to ship something. I get the impression they’re better off for it, considering you’re telling people they’re disappointing based off a personal headcanon.

[rose-against-dersecest]

You’re not a trans man so why do you think I care about your hot take™ on this. Go away.

[pro-survivors]

So the real hot take™ is that only trans men can speak up about transphobia directed at trans men? nice. 

[himedanshi-archive]

As a trans man I don’t give a shit about your opinion, OP. There, does that make you feel any better?

@anti-anti-survivor don’t even bother with this person LOL

[ryo-strider]

Trans man here that was deep in Homestuck and its fandom through its peak. Wanna know something? It’s probably because back then, this kind of anti attitude–that you can’t ship anything problematic, like incest or abuse–was only just starting to get loud and catch on after Homestuck’s Prime, when the comic was most popular and the fandom was most active. Stridercest was very popular, and I believe part of why you see so many mlm openly shipping it now is simply because they did back then, before it was bullied into people that shipping fictional incest was wrong. I saw occasionally grossed out posts (which are valid! Being triggered or upset by incest is 100% valid!), but there was no such popular public expectation to not ship these things. I shipped it myself (mind you, like most people, without addressing that it was abusive, which it is even if you don’t ship it), but I shipped a bunch of other things more, including the fluffiest shit you could imagine like Dave/Tavros.

Secondly… because I remember a thing or two from Homestuck, I hopped onto Rose’s wikia page, and what do I see there?

Hey. Before you go on shaming mlm for shipping incest, why don’t you stop shipping incest yourself? And don’t give me that “they never knew they were genetically related” bullshit as a defense. Dave and Rose are Brother and Sister, so, I ask you: Why are you a hypocrite?

[rose-against-dersecest]

MY URL IS IRONIC AND I DON’T SHIP DAVE AND ROSE. GOD I KNEW THIS WOULD HAPPEN EVENTUALLY BUT IT’S BEEN LITERALLY NOT EVEN A DAY SINCE MY URL CHANGE

[ryo-strider]

Then... why did you take it as a username? You should not be surprised, it is literally the ship name/tag for the ship and a google search proves that. 

Also, honey... I’m sorry you were bullied out of shipping incest and are now self-righteously bullying people out of shipping incest, might I suggest taking a walk, playing a video game, or writing or drawing some Homestuck fan content? Things that make you happy?

[rose-against-dersecest]

Why are so many trans guys into str/idercest…. you disappoint me.

[pro-survivors]

Perhaps because trans men don’t need your approval to ship something. I get the impression they’re better off for it, considering you’re telling people they’re disappointing based off a personal headcanon.

[rose-against-dersecest]

You’re not a trans man so why do you think I care about your hot take™ on this. Go away.

[pro-survivors]

So the real hot take™ is that only trans men can speak up about transphobia directed at trans men? nice. 

[himedanshi-archive]

As a trans man I don’t give a shit about your opinion, OP. There, does that make you feel any better?

@anti-anti-survivor don’t even bother with this person LOL

[ryo-strider]

Trans man here that was deep in Homestuck and its fandom through its peak. Wanna know something? It’s probably because back then, this kind of anti attitude--that you can’t ship anything problematic, like incest or abuse--was only just starting to get loud and catch on after Homestuck’s Prime, when the comic was most popular and the fandom was most active. Stridercest was very popular, and I believe part of why you see so many mlm openly shipping it now is simply because they did back then, before it was bullied into people that shipping fictional incest was wrong. I saw occasionally grossed out posts (which are valid! Being triggered or upset by incest is 100% valid!), but there was no such popular public expectation to not ship these things. I shipped it myself (mind you, like most people, without addressing that it was abusive, which it is even if you don’t ship it), but I shipped a bunch of other things more, including the fluffiest shit you could imagine like Dave/Tavros.

Secondly... because I remember a thing or two from Homestuck, I hopped onto Rose’s wikia page, and what do I see there?

Hey. Before you go on shaming mlm for shipping incest, why don’t you stop shipping incest yourself? And don’t give me that “they never knew they were genetically related” bullshit as a defense. Dave and Rose are Brother and Sister, so, I ask you: Why are you a hypocrite?

[allships-are-goodships]

and the other problem with antis is that they'll literally take something that's actually not inherently harmful/relatively normal and try to turn it into this unforgivable sin because they don't personally agree with it. for example: the whole fucked up discourse about whether two adults with an age gap should be given permission to have sex with each other. that type of controlling behavior is horrific (and also - what a surprise! - a form of abuse), honestly.

HHHGHHHH I HATE THAT.

age gaps literally don’t matter anymore once you’re 18!!!!

[eternalsailordianamon-deactivat]

I mean, yes and no? There’s a general rule of thumb of never dating anyone younger than half your age plus seven, to which there’s obviously exceptions and such, but it’s not a law or anything, just a general rule that prevents conflict from alternate frames of reference, and and other stuff that could cause problems. If a relationship aside from that happens, there’s nothing wrong with it! You just can’t expect it to last or work out, so if it does do so, then that’s good luck! 🍀

[allships-are-goodships]

What are you on about???

Who do you think you are, telling people “uwu your relationship is gonna fail!!!”???

There is no “rule” like that. The rule is “if theyre both over 18, mind your own business.” They are adults and they can make their own decisions, and your input is neither needed or desired.

[thoughts-cant-harm]

@eternalsailordianamon Science does not support that ‘rule’, it actually seems to stem from a very different, borderline sexist idea unrelated to “preventing conflict” or “morals”.

(from wikipedia.)

A person over 18 has a well formed brain and is completely capable of making their own decisions. Trying to police who adults date because you may find it bizarre or inappropriate due to cultural norms is (ironically) creepy and controlling.

Control issues and conflict might arise between people with age differences, yes, and also with economic, mental, or race differences… yet we don’t go around making rules of thumb for that. Adults have a right to get into relationships, even if it might potentially hurt them in the long run.

Or not. Who knows. It’s their right.

[eternalsailordianamon-deactivat]

I didn’t mean it like that! I more or less meant it as “it’s fine, but don’t expect it to work out, or anything, and also prepare for people to find it weird”

there’s nothing wrong about having those relationships, from an ethical or moral standpoint- just, most of those relationships don’t last, so it was a vague guideline

that sort of relationship just usually doesn’t work out long term, and so both parties should go into it with the awareness that it’s probably not going to work out long term?

there’s a bunch of variables, and it’s not like I’ve taken statistics classes, but- egh

my thesis of this argument is “go into it, but don’t be serious going into it, because longterm, it probably won’t work out”

[allships-are-goodships]

do you have anything whatsoever to back up that claim? Because no matter what your reasoning is, “don’t get into a relationship with someone older than you because it’s going to fail” is a really rude, controlling thing to say to ANY adult, if you have absolutely nothing to prove your point. and even then, it’s just not your business at all! 

Sure, maybe it’ll fail! Tons of relationships do! It’s not the end of the world if they do! IT IS NOT YOUR BUSINESS. IT IS NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. 

You don’t get to decide the terms of anyone’s relationships but your own. Your misguided advice was not solicited, and no matter how you phrase it it just sounds patronizing.

[himedanshi-archive]

My boyfriend and I are six years apart, with him being the oldest. We’ve only been together for a little more than two years, and it’s LDR but it’s both the longest and best relationship I’ve ever had. He’s changed my life and helped me heal more as a person. We help each other, we support each other, we talk and that means so much to me as a guy with borderline personality disorder, among other things I have. He has his issues as well, but I’ve never been happier with anyone else. I love my boyfriend and he loves me. We’re just a bunch of gays and I’m tired of people thinking IRL age gaps are toxic, not going to work out, etc. 

Like shut up lmao you don’t know shit. Every relationship is a case-by-case basis. You just can’t, assume and not do your fucking research dude.

[ryo-strider]

Boyfriend here! I’d like to add that going into a relationship expecting it to fail is much more likely to make it fail than just an age gap is. Giving someone that “advice”, especially when you explicitly word it “don’t be serious going into it“ is essentially saying “Just give up before you start, it’s pointless: you will fail.” If you go into anything expecting to fail, odds are you are going to fail. This is the cause for a lot of failed relationships, heck even friendships, as well as jobs, school and anything else. A relationship cannot survive without hope, at least not one that you want to be fulfilling.

Many relationships fail (hell, even as a glass-half-full kind of guy, I’d say most do, especially when you count couples that are together but shouldn’t be with how little they care for each other/how they treat each other, as some of those will sadly stay together when they shouldn’t). Picking on adult age gaps as a likely cause of relationships failing will just deter more people from finding love by making them afraid to bother with anyone who isn’t near their age, regardless of how well they connect. Maybe start caring more about that than something so arbitrary, hmm, @eternalsailordianamon?

[drawingwhatever]

All computer savvy people

I will pay you money if you can dox open MAP’s who use this site. There name, address, phone number, face, Facebook page, as much as possible!!

[allships-are-goodships]

Btw doxing and soliciting doxing services is illegal

Soooo…

[drawingwhatever]

Soooo your point? I was just gonna send the info to the police. What you don’t wanna expose pedophiles?

[allships-are-goodships]

you don’t seem to understand how this little fantasy would ACTUALLY play out.

So here’s an example.

you: [gives a bunch of random people’s personal information to the police]

you: hi please arrest these people

cops: Did they do something to you?

you: they offended me on the internet.

cops: ………… That’s not a crime. Did they commit a crime? A criminal offense?

you: they admitted to being attracted to minors!!

cops: So, you have evidence that they have committed a sexual offense against a minor?

you: no

cops: Evidence that they possess child pornography?

you: they drew porn of a cartoon character!!!

cops: So, you don’t have any evidence or reason for us to believe that these people have committed any crime.

you: well….

cops: one last question; how did you obtain these people’s identifying information?

you: I paid someone to dox them!! :)

cops: ……….. Okay, well, I’m gonna place you under arrest for cyberstalking, defamation, and harassment.

you: but!!!!!! the pedos!!!!!! :(((((((((

I hope this was an educational experience for you.

Kindly stay out of our tags. You don’t belong here.

[himedanshi-archive]

OK this is ridiculous, if these people are non-offending, literally no CP on their computer whatsoever; they just…have an attraction to children but they’re not doing anything about it; they’re not actually committing any crimes? And there is no way you can prove that they are harming someone unless they:

1.) admit it (even then, we really can’t prove that from our positions so that’s difficult)

2.) show some kind of fucking proof 

Uhhh like…if someone isn’t actually harming a child then like…chill out? Doxing is fucking illegal to begin with, and you can report actual offenders who harm children by using websites or calling the fucking police or something dude. Jesus Christ.

[drawingwhatever]

There is no such thing as non offending. You wanna rape kids. Even if you having committed a crime I would post pics of your name and face in your local town with evidence of your blog being yours that way parents can keep there kids away from your sick rape fantasies and shit. I am not kidding when I say I legitimately want you to kill your self. Drink bleach, overdose, blow your brains out idc. All pedosexuals deserve to die. The most gruesome way possible.

[himedanshi-archive]

You’re actually, factually, incorrect. The DSM V states the following criteria for pedophilic disorder:

“Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges OR BEHAVIORS INVOLVING SEXUAL ACTIVITY WITH A PREPUBESCENT CHILD OR CHILDREN.”

Additionally: 

However, if they report an absence of feelings of guilt, shame, or anxiety about these impulses and are not functionally limited by their paraphilic impulses (according to self-report, objective assessment, or both), and their self-reported and legally recorded histories indicate that they have never acted on their impulses, then these individuals have a pedophilic sexual orientation but not pedophilic disorder. Examples of individuals who deny attraction to children include individuals who are known to have sexually approached multiple children on separate occasions but who deny any urges or fantasies about sexual behavior involving children, and who may further claim that the known episodes of physical contact were all unintentional and nonsexual. Other individuals may acknowledge past episodes of sexual behavior involving children but deny any significant or sustained sexual interest in children. Since these individuals may deny experiences impulses or fantasies involving children, they may also deny feeling subjectively distressed. Such individuals may still be diagnosed with pedophilic disorder despite the absence of self-reported distress, provided that there is evidence of recurrent behaviors persisting for 6 months (Criterion A) and evidence that the individual has acted on sexual urges or experienced interpersonal difficulties as a consequence of the disorder (Criterion B).

You can be as young as sixteen when diagnosed with this disorder, or the orientation. You CAN be non-offending, it is not REQUIRED to be diagnosed with it so as long as you fit into the other criteria. 

I know this is a rough subject to talk about, and I’m an advocate for protecting children. I think pedophiles need help, more so non-offending ones because you have to remember; there are some who are victims of child sexual abuse themselves. They might be mirroring what had happened to them, or maybe something they even witnessed. I don’t know, I can’t speak for all of them. If you ever touch or harm a child, you need to do the time for your crime. If you only THINK of them in such a way (as queasy as that makes me feel), you need to get help immediately. But it is such a taboo topic that not many want to bring it up.

Not to mention that it’s your way of thinking that harms other people; children especially because in order to prevent more CSA, we need to help pedophiles through therapy. Shit, even the ones who offend I suppose. Oh, and one more thing, Not all child molesters are pedophiles. Conflating the two together actually makes it worse.

In popular usage, the word pedophilia is often applied to any sexual interest in children or the act of child sexual abuse. This use conflates the sexual attraction to prepubescent children with the act of child sexual abuse, and fails to distinguish between attraction to prepubescent and pubescent or post-pubescent minors. Researchers recommend that these imprecise uses be avoided because although people who commit child sexual abuse are sometimes pedophiles, child sexual abuse offenders are not pedophiles unless they have a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children and some pedophiles do not molest children. 

You are telling people who have not harmed children to die. You are telling CSA victims and minors to die because of something they can’t control. That is harmful, toxic and you’re not preventing more CSA crimes with that kind of thinking. You’re entitled to your opinion, but I’m just letting you know your initial statement is incorrect.

This is my last response to you because I said to myself I wouldn’t like to discuss this topic. Your initial post was inflammatory and doxing is illegal, which rubbed me the wrong way so I felt the urge to respond to you. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Have a nice night.

[drawingwhatever]

First of sweet cheeks pedophilia is not a orientation it is a sickness that needs to be exterminated. And just because someone was a victim of CSA doesn’t excuse them to go rape children. If you Fuck a kid you are automatically a pedophile. Dissent matter if you have done it or not. Again pedophiles should kill them selves they are not loved, there sickness is not a orientation and it will never ever be part of the LGBT community and last of all if I ever come across someone who openly identifies as a MAP I will beat you with a crow bar.

[ryo-strider]

Since he doesn’t want to respond any more, let’s tango.

1) Calling an innate sexual attraction to children an orientation is not the same as the pro-contact pedos acting like they’re an oppressed minority for their attraction and trying to say the orientation should be part of the LGBT, and assuming someone who calls it an orientation while citing the DSM which literally calls it an orientation thinks as such is such a stretch I’m surprised your arm didn’t fall off reaching.

2) Needs to be exterminated? It’s an innate or trauma-triggered attraction that someone cannot help, no matter how much help they get. What they can help is how they behave/feel ABOUT it and understanding that they should never touch or romance a child, so... you are in fact advocating that innocent people who have done nothing wrong be murdered, here.

3) “And just because someone was a victim of CSA doesn’t excuse them to go rape children.” Non-contact pedophiles/MAPs do not, and do not want to go rape children, did you read his post? No one who is just trying to care about non-contact MAPs as human beings thinks there is any excuse for child sexual abuse. We’re against child sexual abuse, like any decent human being: funny thing that, so are non-contact MAPs.

4) “If you Fuck a kid you are automatically a pedophile.“ If you think you as a single human being are above the DSM, then sure. You know, the experts here? In order to qualify as a pedophile, you have to have a primary attraction to children; many cases of child sexual abuse are purely for power and not because that adult has an innate attraction to children. Again, did you even read the excerpts cited for you? 

5)  “Dissent matter if you have done it or not.” by this logic, every human alive that is not purely asexual is a rapist, because we are attracted to people, even though we choose not to go around raping people. Cool! Any time you’ve ever been attracted to someone, had the mere thought of having sex with them, you committed rape, according to you. So congrats, you’re a rapist, so am I, and so is nearly every human alive.

6) “Again pedophiles should kill them selves they are not loved,“ Nice suicide baiting, you are very clearly showing yourself to be a worse person than non-offending, non-contact MAPs until you cut this shit out. Also, they are... an innate attraction to children shouldn’t exclude someone from love so long as they don’t act on it, and seek help to ensure they won’t. "last of all if I ever come across someone who openly identifies as a MAP I will beat you with a crow bar.” I sincerely hope you get caught physically assaulting someone--you know, an actual crime that is hurting another person--so you get arrested and properly punished for literal violence you’d commit on purpose to harm another human being who has not actually harmed a child. The only time you’d not be a shitty person for physically beating a pedophile is if you caught them hurting a child and had to do so to stop it.

I strongly urge people to report @drawingwhatever for soliciting help for/intending to dox people, as well as suicide baiting and the admitted intent to physically assault people. He is the one that should be reported to the police for his intent to harm others, not non-offending, anti-contact MAPs who are just existing and trying their best to be decent people like the rest of us.

[ryo-strider]

You should probably look into the raging epidemic of pedophilia and CSA in Japan. One of the primary way they lure victims is through images of drawn child pornography and series in which adults and minors are together. So yes, fiction does in fact impact reality, in a very real and terrifying way. Seriously, do your research. Also don't talk about representation matters ever if you're claiming fiction has 0 impact on reality, because that is another side on the coin.

So, a lot of assumptions here, like you know anything about what I know? I am well aware of this topic concerning Japan. “Raging epidemic” seems a bit much, when I am quite sure that Japan still has less of an issue with CSA than we (NA) do. Let’s “do some research”.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-09/21/c_136627092.htm

.3% of the child abuse cases reported to the police by welfare authorities in the first half of 2017 were sexual. Sounds to me like the epidemic is child abuse itself, but not CSA–CSA is a very small portion of that child abuse.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/08/04/national/social-issues/child-abuse-japan-reaches-record-high-fiscal-2015/#.WcR26siGOM9

I feel like many people are finding researching and assuming “child abuse” means child sexual abuse, which is untrue. The actual cases of sexual abuse number far less than other types of abuse. Is there more happening than is reported? Yes, certainly, such crimes being under-reported is a problem anywhere, but that also makes it difficult to know exactly how much of said abuse is happening, with no research to really help.

“One of the primary way they lure victims is through images of drawn child pornography and series in which adults and minors are together.

So yes, fiction does in fact impact reality, in a very real and terrifying way.”

Show me the research that proves this like it is such indisputable fact, because predators use anything, and those things are not to blame for the predatory behavior. Guess what I was lured with when I was a young teen? Yahoo Pool. Sonic the Hedgehog fanart/fandom stuff. Sexual art that wasn’t featuring children. The promise of being saved from my emotionally abusive household. The man that lured me being incredibly charming and knowing the right things to say to make me feel comfortable.

None of those things are to blame for my abuse, and none of these things are wrong because they were used to lure me. I’m 29, and I have seen a lot of cases of luring around me personally, and adult/minor art and ships are not used as often as literally anything else….

Fiction affects reality and vice-versa, in both positive and negative ways. But fiction can never be blamed for what happens in reality–that is on the person. If someone was going to hurt someone, they will do it anyway… the fiction that they use to hurt someone is not to blame for that abuse, it didn’t ‘make’ them do it, nor is it what lured the victim–the predator is.

“Also don’t talk about representation matters ever if you’re claiming fiction has 0 impact on reality, because that is another side on the coin.”

None of us who argue that fiction = reality think it has 0 impact on it. The topic is just not black and white, and fan+indie content has a much smaller reach than mainstream media, which has more of a responsibility to watch what messages it is instilling in people. There is a difference between 50 Shades of Gray and a self-indulgent fic with an unhealthy bdsm dynamic that is abusive.

What about the positive benefits problematic fan-media have for victims? Why do you folks never talk about/recognize this? Even though psychologists will back up that it is indeed healthy to explore your abuse in fiction and use dark fiction to cope. Many people discover their abuse this way, and then work through it this way, so the argument that all of this content shouldn’t ever exist is one that harms victims, which is what you supposedly do not want. It in fact takes their method of coping +  realizing their abuse away. The small number of folks, while valid, who are abused with such media, or come away from it thinking that abuse is okay, while I sympathize with them… that was on their parents/caretakers to teach them right from wrong, and that what they read in books and see on TV isn’t reality. I’m sure you, just like anyone like something in fiction that isn’t "okay” in reality, i.e. gratuitous violence which everyone gives a free pass even though it is used to abuse others, and there are trauma victims who would get triggered by such content, so according to you it should never exist in media ever, yet it does quite prevalent and is ignored by anti rhetoric unless it is related to abuse (domestic abuse, sexual violence).

It is not hypocritical to both criticize media but think it is okay for problematic things to exist in media. Framing is important. Whether or not the source you’re criticizing has a wide reach or not is important. Understanding that just because something triggers you or makes you uncomfortable doesn’t mean its existence in fiction is wrong or speaks of its artist’s/writer’s morals is important. Understanding that these things exist in fanwork and small indie work and even mass media if framed well for catharsis and not some ignorance about abuse is important. That’s really all I need to say.