maybe i could be saved

i like succession now but im too tired to rebrand | ao3 | twitter | i like/reply/follow from antthonystark

[watermelonlicker]

[pollsnatural]

Is Sam a classist?

Yes, he was often classist

Yes, he was classist a few times

No, but the way some of his fans see him is classist

No

Other

Voting ended onJul 25, 2024

Please don't fight with each other in the tags.

[samwinchesterism]

lol you guys are all so stupid god bless. "he thinks going to college makes you smarter and better and having an apple pie life is more Worthy and so therefore the chronically homeless scholarship college dropout serial killer who's lived the majority of his life except for two years on the fringes of society is the epitome of the bourgeoisie" is nonsensical enough as is but the funniest part is that he DOESN'T hold any of those attitudes lmao the only problematic (but not even strictly classist) thing is the prison one i will give you that (one offhand comment at age 23) the rest is all just your weird projections with no basis in the text.

sam's entire thing w/ college and the apple pie life has been (1) wanting to be safe after a traumatizing childhood, and (2) textually, subconsciously trying to escape a pre-ordained destiny of evil that he could detect in himself before he even know how to read. literally from episode ONE of the whole sorry affair like you cant even be trying at this point:

DEAN: So what are you gonna do? You're just gonna live some normal, apple pie life? Is that it?

SAM: No. Not normal. Safe.

it's also evident at multiple points in the show that he never actually fully bought in to the idea of it. very very early on actually:

1.06: DEAN: I really wish things could be different, you know? I wish you could just be….Joe College. SAM: No, that’s okay. You know, the truth is, even at Stanford, deep down, I never really fit in.

also e.g. in s2 and s4 he literally says the opposite of what people think his whole thing is on this post lol

2.02: MR. COOPER. You see, this place, it's a refuge for outcasts. Always has been. For folks that don't fit in nowhere else. But you two? You should go to school. Find a couple of girls. Have two point five kids. Live regular. SAM: Sir? We don't want to go to school. And we don't want regular. We want this.

4.19: SAM. So we didn't have a dog and a white picket fence. So what? Dad did right by us. He taught us how to protect ourselves. Adam deserves the same.

it's explicitly revealed that sam also had very little agency in general, due to supernatural forces pulling at his life. lucifer in 5.22 suggested that even sam's desire to run away from his family was related to his destiny as lucifer's vessel, and more concretely, he was surrounded by "Azazel's gang – watching you since you were a rugrat, jerking you around like a dog on a leash. " to ignore the MASSIVE theme of agency and more importantly lack thereof in sam's life - leading to desperate grabs at agency and making his own choices being a consistent motivation for him throughout all of it - will mean always, always, always spectacularly failing at understanding his character or analyzing it in any meaningful way, leading to whatever the fuck is going on here

there are different points in the story where he's obviously less certain about it (e.g. s8) but the idea that he consistently thinks that the bourgeois upper middle class life is the ideal and everything else is lesser than is something you made up in your heads. it's a deeply personal issue for him that he often wrestles with - safety vs. duty vs. destiny vs family vs. fulfillment etc. it's never indicated meaningfully in the text that sam is concerned with gaining wealth or status or social capital through education or through his other desires for his life

there's also no evidence for what someone said in the tags about him looking down on stealing for money because it's just not true lol like the MOST negative thing he ever said was "It's not the most honest thing in the world, Dean" (1.08) lmao. he was just like maybe we could get jobs for a bit (he literally says "once in a while" lol). "maybe we could get jobs instead of stealing ALL the time, but sometimes is fine" = "classist" is rocks for brains analysis. like it's just very very very dumb. also like it's not necessarily classist to try to avoid stealing from other people when you think you can make a living without doing that. which is what sam's thing was. textually:

5.22: CHUCK. They'd pass the time lining their pockets. Sam used to insist on honest work, but now he hustles pool, like his brother.

in swan song when he asks dean to live a "normal, apple-pie life", it's very clear in the text that he's trying to make sure dean finds some semblance of non-hunting contentment after he dies, so that he doesn't try to bring sam back to life which in sam's mind at the time would re-start the apocalypse like you guys have to keep these things in their proper context lmao you can't just lift random lines of dialogue and be like SEEEEE he's homophobic and classist

in a similar vein him teasing dean about reading or whatever is literally just him being a little shit. there is not a single textual example of him sincerely thinking dean is less intelligent than him because he's not as into the book learning. the funny thing is that the most realistic interpretation is that it's just a reaction from dean making fun of him for being a geek/nerd/etc. lol like oh you're gonna make fun of me for being a nerd well do you even know how to read like lol. because siblings. when push comes to shove he sits dean down and monologues at him about how he is a genius (8.14)

also wanting to go to college doesn't make him a classist. it's not once indicated that he wanted to go to be rich and because higher education makes you better than others like that doesn't even have a nexus to his motivations. he has only ever said he wanted to go to school to go to school, and to do something he wanted with his life while escaping his traumatic and abusive childhood (see AGENCY point above). it's simply not classism unless you decide to filter it through seven layers of pseudo-intellectual fake analysis which doesn't make it right. in 1.08 when he encourages a kid to go to college, note what his reasoning is and feel ashamed for ever saying a bad word about him:

SAM. Well, don't sweat it, because in two years, something great's gonna happen. [...] College. You'll be able to get out of that house and away from your dad.

like TEXTUAL EXAMPLES or shut up which with this group always means shut up because there are never textual examples that aren't divorced so completely from their context as to be meaningless

[pollsnatural]

Who most deserved to be killed by Kevin?

Dean

Sam

Cas

No one

Voting ended onMay 1, 2024

[samwinchesterism]

your blog is such a breath of fresh air in this terrible terrible fandom thank you 💖 the ridiculous amount of hate for sam by a lot of supernatural fans is going to be my villain origin story

aw thank you that's so nice!! that was absolutely and exactly my villain origin story as well so though i'm not pleased it still exists i am glad we are still churning out new evil samgirls lmao <3

[pollsnatural]

Are Dean and Sam soulmates?

Yes

Yes, but in a nightmarish way (in a way that the fate, angels and heaven are bad

No

Other

Voting ended onApr 1, 2024

Please try not to tell people to kill themselves in the notes.

Dean and Cas poll

[samwinchesterism]

in re: “cas knows dean better than sam”

“cas sees dean as a whole person and sam just sees dean’s façade as his big brother slash parent” but like how and where. outside of your fanfiction. season and episode. scene and line. if it’s so obvious and apparent you should have at least 3-5 concrete examples right? “sam doesn’t know dean carried him out of the burning house” yeah but did cas? outside of a footnote in the angelic manila folder they gave him between seasons 3 and 4 so he could better manipulate him and sam into doing heaven’s bidding? like if you’re going to say “cas knows dean better than sam” than you need to show how cas succeeds where you perceive sam to be failing at the very least. but even your perceptions of how sam doesn’t measure up are so warped, blinkered, and moronic that it wouldn’t even be worth much if you could provide the textual evidence, but at least you’d have a semblance of a point. like say anything without going “as an eldest daughter…” “well my relationship with my sibling isn’t…” please say anything without fucking projecting your own self-pitying crybaby bullshit onto your little woobie dean and using the actual canon text of the show. I’m literally begging you.

like the thing of it all is and always has been that you’re so hell-bent on twisting the sam and dean relationship to fit into this narrow and almost entirely inaccurate mold which is the basis upon which you build the entire Destiel Mythos that you literally lose all sense of media literacy. you don’t even miss the forest for the trees, you miss the trees for like, the pretend invisible things you’re seeing in between the trees, the forest is a whole long way away from your current level of perception. because the Destiel Mythos is based entirely on the fact that dean is Not Seen and Not Appreciated and Not Loved and Cannot Be Himself until cas comes along, and that Family (read: sam) Is Only A Burden on Him That He Must Be Freed From In Order to Flourish, so you keep trying to warp the sam relationship into something that is only one dimension of it – and keep ignoring the ways in which dean is seen, loved and understood within it, because you need to keep lying to yourselves that there is a narrative need to emancipate dean from something that he has never wanted emancipation from because it is ultimately a net good for dean in the particular circumstances of their lives. it’s also profoundly unhealthy, codependent, evil and toxic etc. (a lot more dean’s fault than sam’s but I will nawt be getting into all that right now) but that doesn’t change the fact that sam and dean both know and understand and feel deeply that they are each other’s person – that they know the best and love the most in the world. but that – which IS true canon fact – is incompatible with the Destiel Mythos so it must be ignored and all good sense must be thrown out the window in order to do it.

anyway i digress there are two main categories of Bad Thinking that i will be addressing below

childhood/ “parent/child” / blah blah blah

every single thing people are saying in favour of the deeply stupid thesis in the title of this post is proof positive of the very silly form of ‘analysis’ I just described. a few things:

“wah sam didn’t know that dean carried him out of the burning house :( this means that dean withholds things from sam to protect him because he is a PARENT and sam can only know things about him in the context of him being a PARENT to him” – what the fuck are you on about genuinely. first of all reducing the sam/dean relationship exclusively to parent/child is in itself foolishness for so many reasons that I don’t have time for right now. but also, it’s clear that this is just something that happened when sam was a baby that just never came up. in the scene (1.09) where this is brought up, dean is mildly surprised that he or john never mentioned that detail and then states that sam knows the rest of the story (i.e. the actual traumatic stuff) just as well as dean does – which is true, demonstrably whenever they talk about it.

obviously there are some things that happened to dean in their childhood that sam doesn’t know about (or didn’t know about, until told in whatever episode they come up in). equally, there are things dean doesn’t know about sam’s childhood, e.g. the fact that he was so lonely he needed a zanna (11.08). or how dean didn’t remember that sam was friends with barry cook until he mentions it when they go back to their old school (4.13). or about the nature of sam’s relationship with amy pond (7.03). these don’t mean that ‘sam withheld these things to protect dean out of parental love’ lol, it’s just that there are details and events in each of their lives that the other happens to not have been told about.

similarly “sam didn’t even know dean wanted to be a firefighter L” girl did dean know sam wanted to be a lawyer? in 1.01 he’s pretty surprised that sam has a law school interview. the point here isn’t “neither sam nor dean know each other well,” these are minutiae that aren’t relevant to how well you know someone as a whole, and very poorly demonstrate the bad and inaccurate point that dean withholds things from sam the way a parent does a child (on a constant or regular basis). obviously the way they were raised, sam was deemed too young to know about certain things until he got older and dean had to keep that secret, but as shown in 3.08 flashbacks, most if not all of this is eventually revealed throughout their childhood when sam is still fairly young.

or possibly the dumbest one is that “wah sam doesn’t even know that dean reads books L” whenever that was he was also obviously joking because in more serious moments (e.g. 8.14) he admits that dean is smart/a better researcher than he is, literally remembers dean reading to him as a kid (8.21) so like. clam down  

one of the extra annoying variants of this type of ‘proof’ covers things that are very clearly novel pieces of information about dean that dean, sam, and the audience are learning about dean in real time. like if you’re actually watching the show to comprehend it as it was intended to be comprehended, instead of funnelling everything through the Destiel Machine until it’s unrecognizable slop that fits neatly into your pre-ordained molds that Make Destiel Necessary In the Narrative (when it actually isn’t, at all) it’s abundantly clear. the top two worst offenders:

“sam didn’t even know that dean is good with kids :( he doesn’t even realize that dean raised him :(” first of all you people need to understand that parentification does not literally create a parent-child dynamic between siblings but I digress – this doesn’t make any sense bro. in 1.03 dean admits he doesn’t know any kids as an adult. dean being good with his own kid brother when they were both kids is to any reasonable person not necessarily linked with him being good with other random kids when he’s an adult. in 1.03 it’s clear that dean himself is a bit surprised that he’s able to connect w/ lucas so well because he’s clearly not dealt with a lot of kids since sam grew up. the whole point of this is that dean, sam, and the audience are all sort of seeing a new side of dean. who again is just 26. after this very early episode, there’s no question from sam that dean is able to connect w kids. sam being a bit surprised by this also has absolutely zero connection with him not understanding or realizing that dean looked out for him when they were both kids – sam is standing there at 22 years of age talking about adult dean and children – of fucking course he doesn’t mean himself are you stupid.

from the very first season, sam is very clearly aware of everything dean ~did for him~ when they were kids, see e.g. 1.21: “Dean...ah...I wanna thank you. […] For everything. You've always had my back you know? Even when I couldn't count on anyone I could always count on you. And I don't know, I just wanted to let you know, just in case.”

and 1.06: DEAN: Well, I’m a freak, too. I’m right there with ya, all the way. (SAM laughs.) SAM: Yeah, I know you are.

and then possibly even more stupidly, the one where it’s like “wah sam doesn’t even know dean can cook :( he doesn’t even know that DEAN was the one making him food as a babe in arms :(” – when sam is surprised that dean made something fairly gourmet and from scratch literally the first time they have ever had a permanent living space with a functional kitchen. in this VERY scene (8.14), dean himself points out that they haven’t had a kitchen before and when sam remarks on the irregularity of him doing serious cooking, he says “I’m nesting”, clearly showing that this is a novel development because they now have a kitchen, and that it’s irregular relative to past behaviour – both of them acknowledge this. because real proper in-depth cooking and making box mac and cheese for sam until he was like 11 and old enough to be left alone are two different things, which sam understands because he’s smart, unlike whoever chooses to make this point. dean never showed significant signs of liking to cook before this, which is what the exchange is about, but he did have to prepare food for them both when sam was too young – of course sam knows he had to, there are childhood memories referred to (e.g. 14.11) where sam is mentioned to literally help dean do the cooking as kids lol (and yes, genius, sam says ‘I didn’t know you knew what a kitchen was’ or something to that effect, but if you think he’s being 100% literal there I have an oceanfront property in Kansas to sell you)

again, obviously there are pieces that sam doesn’t know about dean, e.g. when he’s talking about his response to mary dying in 1.03. but again, Sam is 22, dean is 26, the last time they were in regular contact was when sam was 18-20, these are things that happen when people grow up, they’re able to reflect and share on childhood experiences if they’re close with their siblings as adults. it’s clearly not something that 26 y/o dean wanted to hide from 22 y/o sam. yes sam didn’t know everything about how dean felt when they were young, but that’s equally true in the other direction, and it’s such an irrelevant point in this discussion when, crucially, sam does learn these things about dean mostly fairly early on in the series (i.e. when they’re really not that deep into adulthood yet). cas was also not magically blessed w/ knowledge about dean, he also had to learn whatever it is that he knows, but somehow sam has to know everything about dean from age 7 or it doesn’t count when it’s sam lol.

“sam doesn’t know the One True Dean / doesn’t see through his facades”

the next branch of defending this flawed thesis is invariably that sam has little idea of the fronts and facades that dean puts up and is content to just believe them, whereas cas digs deep and sees the One True Dean that stupid sam always misses. there is nothing in the text that demonstrates this is true. multiple times, we see sam being very knowing of the fact that dean puts up fronts and facades. sam is also knowledgeable of the way dean perceives himself, and – demonstrated in multiple episodes before such sam lines were very poorly recycled and regurgitated into cas’s dialogue in 15.18, but keep acting like that was the first time anyone ever showed that they knew the One True Dean.

Obviously there are times where sam teases dean when he’s being more touchy-feely than usual, but 9.99 times out of 10 (as a conservative estimate in case there's something i'm forgetting otherwise i would say every time) that’s very clearly coming from a place of knowing the real dean vs. the façade he puts up because that’s the whole joke. and it’s allowed to be a joke because they’re siblings and that’s what siblings do lol. esp since sam and dean have touchy feely moments at the end of like every episode.

examples of all of the above off the top of my head (there are more than these, but these are the ones I can think of):

2.02 (about John’s death)

Sam: “I mean this ‘strong silent’ thing of yours, it's crap. […] I'm over it. This isn't just anyone we're talking about, this is Dad. I know how you felt about the man.”

Dean: “You know what, back off, all right? Just because I'm not caring and sharing like you want me to.”

Sam: “No, no, no, that's not what this is about, Dean. I don't care how you deal with this. But you have to deal with it, man. Listen, I'm your brother, all right? I just want to make sure you're okay.”

2.03 (Sam to Dean, also about John’s death): “You know, you slap on this big fake smile but I can see right through it. Because I know how you feel, Dean. Dad's dead. And he left a hole, and it hurts so bad you can't take it, but you can't just fill up that hole with whoever you want to. It's an insult to his memory.”

Note that Dean essentially admits that Sam is right in these two instances in 2.04 bc I know yall have stupid shit to say about john too that has nothing to do with how anyone actually felt about him in canon

3.07 (about Dean’s demon deal – also proven true in later episodes)

SAM: Dude, drop the attitude, Dean. Quit turning everything into a punch line. And you know something else? Stop trying to act like you're not afraid.

DEAN: I'm not!

SAM: You're lying. And you may as well drop it 'cause I can see right through you.

DEAN: You got no idea what you're talking about.

SAM: Yeah, I do. You're scared, Dean. You're scared because your year is running out, and you're still going to Hell, and you're freaked.

DEAN: And how do you know that?

SAM: Because I know you! […] Yeah, I've been following you around my entire life! I mean, I've been looking up to you since I was four, Dean. Studying you, trying to be just like my big brother. So yeah, I know you. Better than anyone else in the entire world. And this is exactly how you act when you're terrified. And, I mean, I can't blame you. It's just […] I wish you would drop the show and be my brother again. 'Cause... (can't find words; tears in his eyes) just 'cause.

5.18 [Sam figures out what Dean is doing re: his plan to let Michael possess him, tracks him down, and eventually is the catalyst for Dean ‘making the right call’, which he predicts] – e.g.:

SAM: No, you won’t. When push shoves, you’ll make the right call

DEAN: You know, if tables were turned…I’d let you rot in here. Hell, I have let you rot in here.

SAM: Yeah, well…I guess I’m not that smart.

DEAN: I—I don’t get it. Sam, why are you doing this?

SAM: Because… you’re still my big brother.

8.14 (basically the o.g. version of whatever went on in 15.18 + sam intrinsically understanding the trials are a death wish for dean): “I'm closing the gates. It's a suicide mission for you. I want to slam hell shut, too, okay? But I want to survive it. I want to live, and so should you. You have friends up here, family. I mean, hell, you even got your own room now. You were right, okay? I see light at the end of this tunnel. And I'm sorry you don't – I am. But it's there. And if you come with me, I can take you to it. […] I AM smart, and so are you. You're not a grunt, Dean. You're a genius – when it comes to lore, to – you're the best damn hunter I have ever seen – better than me, better than dad. I believe in you, Dean. So, please – please believe in me, too.”

10.22 (understanding how much dean has ~done for him~)

SAM: I'm saving my brother.

CASTIEL: You told Dean—

SAM: —I know what I told Dean. Cas, look. I've been the one out there, messed up and scared. And alone. And Dean—

CASTIEL: He did whatever he could to save you.

SAM: Yes. I mean, it's become his thing. I owe him this. I owe him everything.

10.23 (basically the o.g. version of whatever went on in 15.18, x2 – from Sam to Dean): “You were also willing to summon death to make sure you could never do any more harm. You summoned me because you knew I would do anything to protect you. That's not evil, Dean. That's not an evil man. That is a good man crying to be heard, searching for... some other way. […] You will never, ever hear me say that you -- the real you -- is anything but good.”

11.13 (Sam understanding exactly how Dean feels about Amara being his ‘deepest desire’, and confirming that it doesn’t make him a bad person)

Dean: Why? Because if she is that means that I’m…

Sam: Means you’re what? Complicit? Weak? Evil?

Dean: For starters, yeah.

Sam: Dean. Do you honestly think you ever had a choice in the matter? She’s the sister of God, and for some reason she picked you and that sucks, but if you think I’m gonna blame you or judge you…I’m not.

Dean: You know that I want her ass dead.

Sam: Yes. Of course. And I know you’ve also probably beaten yourself up a hundred times over it, but where has that gotten us? (Long silence) Just how bad is it?

13.02 (Sam perfectly explaining Dean’s psyche to Jack)

JACK: Is that why Dean hates me?

SAM: Dean doesn’t hate you. It… Look, sometimes the wires in Dean’s head get crossed and—and he gets frustrated, and then he mixes frustration with anger, and—and fear.

JACK: Why would he be afraid?

SAM: Because Dean feels like it’s his job to protect everyone. And right now, we need to protect you. But we may also need to protect people from you.

14.03 [Sam assesses Dean’s psychological/emotional response to the Michael possession; end of episode, Dean confirms that Sam’s assessment was fully accurate]

14.10 [Sam is the only one able to snap Dean out of his weird Michael mind loop by using their code word]

14.11 [Sam figuring out that something is troubling Dean just based on the fact that Dean hugs him]

15.17 (self explanatory at this point)

DEAN: Chuck has to die. He has to! Otherwise he'll keep us tap dancing forever, and I can't live like that, man! I can't live like that! I won't!

SAM: I know you feel like that right now, okay. I know you do. But you gotta trust me. My entire life, you've protected me— from Dad, from Lucifer, from everything. I didn't always like it, you know, but... it's the one thing in the whole world that I could always count on. It's the only thing I've ever known that was true. So please... put the gun away. Just put it away, and we'll figure it out, Dean, we'll find another way, you and me. We always do.

like maybe there are some cas moments w dean along these lines too. i don't know, i don't remember what the guy says or does anymore it's been too many years and he is not memorable. but the point is where and in what capacity and based on what metric other than the amount of bad fanfic you've read does cas exceed sam in these respects.

so basically just. genuinely, what are you people literally ever talking about. go watch the show instead of saying stupid wrong stuff about sam on the hellsites all day. or watch another show (please for the love of god watch any other show this one is absolutely lost on you and it’s such a stupid one too i'm embarrassed for you)

[samwinchesterism]

my tweets from a few days ago when this who knows dean better discourse hit twitter being immediately proven right by the deangirls and deancas fools in the notes of that stupid poll i just reblogged like "well ME and MY sibling are like THIS which means DEAN is like that and also [something that sounds smart but doesn't have any reference to or any support in the actual text of the show but is what i personally feel is true about the characters]" so i think ive cracked it

[pollsnatural]

Who knows Dean better?

Sam

Cas

Voting ended onMar 23, 2024

[destiel-vs-anything]

destiel versus sam winchester..

Destiel vs Sam Winchester

Destiel

Sam Winchester

Voting ended onFeb 21, 2024

[samwinchesterism]

after many months of not feeling it i am finally once again experiencing missing sam hours. reading my own never to be finished wips from 2021 to feel something and now i accidentally feel too much like

that's my kid ? my special boy? im SAD

[samwinchesterism]

hi abbie i'm contacting you from here because you've deleted your pinterest account and i just remembered that you'd told me you were one of the admins of this blog. i think i had some messages of yours that i wasn't able to reply back then. if you still want to chat, please let me know. if that's not the case and/or i'm talking to the wrong user, i sincerely apologize.

im sorry but you definitely have the wrong person! gl with finding them :)

[nobodymitskigabriel]

Fics where Sam is the one who kills Lucifer does anyone have any.

[litanyofdecay]

these are my favorites:

break these bones ’til they’re better by @samwinchesterism: After Sam’s torture at the hands of the British Men of Letters, the latest in a long string of violations, he is rescued by Dean and Mary – and forced to ponder his broken relationship with his own body. Months later, when Sam is resurrected and tormented by Lucifer yet again, Dean confronts Mary and Sam gets his revenge against the devil.

golgotha by @samwinchesterism: There’s a vacancy on the throne of hell, and Sam is desperate enough to save Dean from Michael’s possession to give into the abyssal depths of his own darkness.

[samwinchesterism]

jared padalecki saying the rebar that killed dean wouldn’t have hurt sam because it wouldn’t be able to pierce his lats is the funniest thing he or anyone has ever said about cw supernatural and it’s the only hot take on the spn finale i’m accepting from here on in 

[samwinchesterism]

people in the notes wondering if this really happened how did we lose the sacred texts so quickly this is the funniest thing anyone has EVER said

[faithdeans]

the difference is jared padalecki has never heard of sam winchester in his life, whereas jackles is balls deep in the delusion that he and dean are the same person

[samwinchesterism]

it's 2023 how have you all not learned to shut the fuck up yet oh my lord

[holdoncallfailed]

SPILLED.

[samwinchesterism]

hi is this thing on 

[samwinchesterism]

— “ancient text” by louise gluck