Attempting to write a fic reimagining the aftermath of the party from Ralph’s perspective. This is the premise.
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Skicio
@skicio-zeezee
Jul 6
Hi @renaultphile! Not sure where else to ask this but hoping you can answer :)
Did Ralph have a bruise at the end of the novel? If so, does the book mention how he got it? I don’t have the book with me but I could’ve sworn he has a bruise. It’s either factual or I’m experiencing Mandela effect. Thank you!
Hi there @jackie-the-obscure, so good to hear from you! You are my first asker! And yes, I can answer that one. He definitely has a bruise - "Ralph's face was bruised on the left cheek-bone" I featured it in my first ever fic, funnily enough. I have always assumed that he got it from the fight with Bunny, and I rather like the idea that Bunny got a solitary punch in before he gave him "concussion and broken ribs". Such a beautiful and poignant little detail!
OK, @jackie-the-obscure, @carrotcakecrumble, @argyleheir, in response to Jackie the Obscure's delicious suggestion that it was Ralph all along who visited Andrew, not Bunny, I like a challenge, let me see if I can make this work:
Ralph had motive, means and opportunity. So we only have to examine the evidence against Bunny, all of which is circumstantial/hearsay/confessional.
Bunny’s ‘confession’ to Toto. How would Bunny know what had happened? Ralph would have had to tell him, or he found out somehow. Through the diaries? Doubtful as they don’t live together any more, but they do work together.
Ralph confessing to Bunny? Plausible, because what was Ralph doing with those long evenings after he dropped Laurie back at the hospital. He was surely in need of a stiff drink and someone to talk to? When Ralph tells Laurie he and Bunny have split up, he says “Main thing is, it's finished. Do you feel like believing that?" Eh? Do you feel like believing that? And Ralph does have a habit of getting very drunk in front of Bunny and seems rather vulnerable to his ‘corny’ pranks.
Bunny either offering to take the blame, or deciding to take credit? Bunny is looking for mischief and gossip – it will be easier to spread gossip if he claims credit as people are more likely to believe him. He wants to prove that Andrew is not all he claims to be – if the Quaker can hit someone, what else are they doing, maybe that ‘friendship’ is not so pure. That’s the thing that will be most hurtful to Ralph. And if he offered to take the blame for Ralph? He’s got something on him, then hasn’t he?
Bunny has a split lip – he could have got that anywhere or even done it in the blackout. Ralph is unmarked, well, on the face. There’s nothing that says Andrew hit him in the face. That’s Alec’s assumption.
Andrew can’t imagine Ralph and Laurie being great friends – if you think about it, few people in the book can. That’s part of the sweetness of their little romantic bubble. Also someone did point out that Andrew knows Ralph’s voice from when he took a message from him for Laurie.
My final point is a literary one. I have been pondering for some time the parallels between chapter two where Ralph tells Laurie if he doesn’t stop his little plan he will knock him unconscious and he’ll spend the rest of the time in the sicker, by which time it will be too late for him to do anything. I’ve always wondered if Ralph knocking Bunny unconscious and putting him ‘out of action’ in the sicker is also an attempt to stop him doing something. But what would it be? I used to think, it’s to stop him confessing to anyone else or telling Laurie because Ralph doesn’t want anything getting in the way of his plan. But this adds some more options – possibly an even greater incentive to shut Bunny up.
We would have to believe that Ralph is a good liar – that seems plausible to me. Would playing dumb be a good strategy? Maybe, or maybe not, but Ralph is prone to tactical errors sometimes.
So there you have it – possible? Have I missed anything?
At the very least, a rather good set-up for an AU fic………….
good news for laurie
Jul 6
My awesome new 53 edition arrived and I’m so excited I bought it a fancy new cloth cover because it is missing its original 🤗💕
Jul 5
Locus of control theory and The Charioteer
I have been thinking for some time about whether we can apply the theory of 'Locus of control' to The Charioteer, particularly Ralph and Laurie, and in light of some recent discussion about Ralph's, erm, determination in matters of Love, I thought I would put it out there. In a nutshell, the theory argues that broadly, people who feel more in control of their lives (have an 'internal locus of control) tend to be happier. For example:
-Are more likely to take responsibility for their actions -Tend to be less influenced by the opinions of other people -Usually, have a strong sense of self-efficacy -Tend to work hard to achieve the things they want -Feel confident in the face of challenges I think we would recognise this in Ralph, although I would also feel that he has such an extreme sense of personal responsibility that it is not always good for him. An External Locus of Control would be:
-Blame outside forces for their circumstances -Often credit luck or chance for any successes -Don't believe that they can change their situation through their own efforts -Frequently feel hopeless or powerless in the face of difficult situations -Are more prone to experiencing learned helplessness
Do I detect a Laurie vibe, especially the last one, especially when he is around Ralph. I've always liked this exchange between them:
"There must be some reason why things happen. Something in us must touch them off. Like a magnetic mine." "I don't know. I always think when you go to war you make yourself over to chance by an act of will." "You have a peaceful mind, Spuddy." "You'd be surprised."
So what do we think, does Spuddy really have a peaceful mind, or too little agency? Do these two have something to teach each other?
Jul 5
Deleted sentence from the 53 edition; everyone at the party is looking at Alec and his cake apart from Ralph who is looking at Laurie 🥹💕
Jul 5
Ok but what if Ralph had been delayed on the ship and by the time he got to Laurie he had already “let go” like he said he was going to 😭
Also I feel like there isn’t enough conversation around how frantic Ralph sounds in the ship meeting scene. Maybe because we only have his own rendition of what happened (as well as Reg but he was half blind at the time, and Laurie who was delirious), and he tends to downplay it. But when he can’t find a pulse in Laurie’s neck he rips open his shirt to feel his chest. Usually when you can’t find a pulse in the neck that’s it, game over, but Ralph doesn’t stop there, he keeps searching for signs of life. I wonder if he would’ve done the same if it had been someone else in Laurie’s position.
Jul 5
"Hello, Spud. How are you feeling?"
Laurie, dying. Ralph, touching his crush's chest.
Hey, what if I knew ANYTHING about naval uniforms, wouldn't that be amazing
Jul 5
Please observe Ralph Lanyon subtly confessing his love to Laurie on page 33 of the novel, only for the confession to completely fly over Laurie’s head as he fixates on the “responsibility” comment and the challenge it poses to his sense of independence.
We shall see this pattern of communication between them repeat itself until Laurie finally learns to pay attention to the right things 🫠
Ralph: A relationship between us would mean too much. Laurie: I'm not a baby >:[
Jul 5
Ok but not Ralph making sure to put a rug in the car for their second car-date because the last time Laurie was cold 😭😭😭
so do we think "afterwards" means "after another makeout session" or
Jul 4
This excerpt; am I hallucinating or is Bim here comparing Ralph to the poor queen sitting at home waiting for Odysseus (Laurie) while suiters (Bim) try to court her.
Jul 4
This is a long shot, but does anyone know where to find/ if there still exists, a download from the old Mary Renault Live Journal site featuring comparison texts from the 53 and 59 editions? I can find old posts discussing the comparisons, but according to commenters there also used to be a downloadable document, but I can’t find it anywhere. Anyone have any ideas?
Jul 3
So on a very basic level it seems to me that Ralph is a person who makes things happen, while Laurie is a person to whom things happen, but that through the course of the book both have to contend with filling the opposite, unfamiliar position. E.g. Ralph finds that (because of Laurie) things (big feelings) happen to him and he has no control them, and Laurie finds that he can make things happen, but doesn’t really like the responsibility. Neither are at ease with their new roles.
That scene in the bedroom with the exchange:
‘You’re not angry, are you?’
‘No,’ said Ralph quite quietly. ‘I’m not angry. But don’t be gone too long.’
This scene makes me so sad, because Ralph is a man who likes to be in control, but is here accepting that - not for the first time- when it comes to Laurie he has no control. In another chapter he says that he’s ‘not attracted to people I can push around’, but he’s also not fully at ease with not having full control over people. With Laurie we see him desperately trying to retain some kind of control but also trying not to be pushy about it. It’s a painful read.
I don’t even know where I’m going with this, just thinking aloud mainly 😂 and trying to understand the individual struggles each has to contend with and how in the end their roles essentially flip.
Jul 2
What exactly happened to this glance to make it not turn out as he had meant? I love the idea of Laurie trying to say thank you with a look but then accidentally making seductive bedroom eyes or something. Or is the implication here that Ralph took the look in a way that wasn’t intended by Laurie?
Jun 30
Ok but why is this whole exchange so sweet and endearing 🥹😭 also what is going on during Ralph’s “breathless pause”? Was the “all night in some places” a joke that Laurie clearly didn’t get and Ralph is trying not to laugh at his blank, slightly drunken stare?
Also Ralph making sure Laurie eats something because he knows he’s been running on empty all day. I just can’t with these two 😭
Jun 30
Ralph scratched up softly the short hair at the nape of his neck, causing an involuntary shiver like a stroked cat’s. ‘Spud,’ he said gently, ‘are you worrying again?’
for @macytree‘s RxL request
(currently taking mary renault requests!)
