Worst Fanbases Ever (Serebii Forums)
Sorry for the quote tags not working, I'll fix it later.
Today's rant is on a thread called "Worst Fanbases Ever" by ParaChomp on the Serebii Forums. This isn't a commentary on the thread so much as one particular member (most of this commentary comes from my brother, who knows more about the Pokemon fandom).
Link is here: http://www.serebiiforums.com/archive/index.php/t-582641.html
The first few pages are basically just people stating their complaints of whatever fanbase they think is the worst, with a few discussions here and there. The time the thread really goes down the drain is when PokemonNation2000 (some of you probably know him better as Dwail8023) comes in. He makes a few posts stating that he doesn't like the current dub of the anime, before saying it's immoral to like the dub of Season 9 to present. That's right, he's bringing morality into a discussion about fanbases...
[quote]Pokemon is by far their best dub and just being a jerk saying that ALL their dubs are bad is incredibly moronic and silly. It's true: 4Kids is much, much better than TPCi. They only have one dub to do, too, and they managed to make it unbearable to watch. End of discussion. Really, pathetic, targeting the people who actually did a good job dubbing the series. Sad. TPCi is the biggest problem, if anything. Like I said, TPCi is a billion dollar corporation so why in the hell couldn't they just give 4Kids VAs the money needed to keep them? Are they really that greedy and full of crap? WHY should we even support them then? No one does that to people who work that hard and are unanimously preferred over the current dub cast after seven years of the TPCi dub! What jerks! Veronica and Eric said if TPCi contacts them they'd STILL be willing to come back for Ash and James, respectively. It's ridiculous: almost 7 years of keeping the original voice actors from working in the roles they should be. It's like if we replaced the entire Japanese cast: it's not right at all. We NEED to let the original VAs come back as Ash and co. someday. It's not right. It feels wrong watching any episode AG146+ in the dub tbh. You know it, in your heart, you know what they did proves they are beyond bad and need to be stopped. :([/quote]
Most of the people who posted in that thread said they don't care who dubs the anime, though. If it feels "wrong" to you, then why do you watch it? A cast change proves that they're in the wrong? That's just the beginning...
[quote]#1 Voice actors that don't make your ears bleed or actually fit the characters and are good equivalents to the Japanese seiyus (this is self-explanatory). #2 Quite well composed intros that actually make your interested in the anime (of course they're worse than the Japanese intros but still much better than the 7 made by TPCi). #3 Good music soundtracks and decent replacement BGM that doesn't sound like a video game shooter like DuArt's replacement BGM has from Seasons 11+. #4 Putting proper emotion and effort into performances and showing the bond between trainer and Pokemon. #5 Actually writing scripts that weren't chock full of such memorable phrases as winnin', trainin', layin', grabbing ho, blooming bigger than a dozen roses, the list goes on and on.
Do I even NEED to say why 4Kids is much better than TPCi's ever been. It's insanely obvious![/quote]
The first three are subjective. The fourth one is just stupid because he's crediting a dub for something that was shown in the original JP version. His last reason doesn't even make sense.
[quote]And with the former two pages worth of posts, I officially place the Pokemon fanbase at the worst. Because they don't care about the actual quality of the anime so long as there are less edits and the Japanese BGM is kept about 80% of time as opposed to 50%. Plus, you have to remember that the executives at TPCi just want money and didn't give a crap about the old VAs who you could tell truly cared about their characters and their work. And TPCi has lost all the nonexistent respect I ever had because they don't give a crap about the true fans or people who worked for them. Just imagine replacing Rica Matsumoto and the original Japanese seiyus...this IS no different. And I gave several other reasons besides this about why the former dub is on a whole different level that the current. If people choose to ignore those reasons, then it's not my fault. Too bad my once favorite anime has been decimated by these pathetic jerks. When you find fandubbers who are better, you KNOW there's a problem with the current dub. Anyway, let's shift this discussion because obviously this is making a mess of things. Games are getting better at the least. :)[/quote]
This whole paragraph is just straw manning and a sob story rolled into one. He's labeling the Pokemon fanbase as the worst just because they have a different opinion as him, even though most of them don't care for the anime in general. He can still watch the anime in its original form. He never even links to the fandubs that are supposedly better.
He adds two more reasons to his list that I showed above that just amount to "TPCi made this mistake". Everything has mistakes, so what's his point?
[quote]I can't stand our fanbase, personally, bro. They're trying to defend something as bad as 4Kids One Piece (arguably worse in voice quality and replacement BGM), even AFTER these jerks at TPCi fired the original voice actors after a whopping 422 episodes worth of dubbing with these horrid replacements. Making Taylor and Lillis cry too? No respect, TPCi, period. Failure worse than 4Kids ever = TPCi.[/quote]
You can't stand the fanbase because they like something you don't? You're just acting like a big baby. Many people cry when they lose jobs, it happens. As other people said in the thread, that's just business. You may not like it, but it happens.
Running out of arguments, he starts bashing on people's spelling and grammar (for example, he gets on somebody who spelled "I'm" as "Im").
He then links to a video called "The Top Ten English Dubs Of Anime: Part 05", where three people just say "___ sounds like ____" without making any actual points, and like him, they try and bring morality into it. He also keeps asking how people would feel if the JP actors were replaced, even though, as stated before, most don't even watch it.
More sob stories from him (he's even replying to unrelated posts just to keep up this nonsense):
[quote]And as per our discussion, I am far more intelligent than you are. I obviously know better than to say "4Kids sucks" without looking at what really happened and how bad TPCi really is for what they did and are currently doing. Please, let's stop. Pokemon was an anime series close to my heart and TPCi has single-handedly tarnished it before my eyes. I can watch 4Kids OP and laugh, but when I watch TPCi Pokemon I cry. It's traumatic and a hellish experience. Hopefully TPCi realizes their mistake and lets the 4Kids VAs come back, because they STILL want to even after ALL the crap they've been through and all the crap you guys ignore as well as jb, giotto, and countless others besides parachomp who's actually willing to keep his ears open. I have SO much respect for the old VAs and so little for TPCi, and it's justified. I only wish TPCi would wake up and realize what they did was very wrong and disgraceful to the English dub of the series. 4Kids is better than TPCi IMO. It's that simple.[/quote]
Not only is he a whiny jerk, but he's conceited, too...
[quote]The reason it HAPPENED moron! UGH. People trying to say things without using their brains. The reason it happened is because TPCi will do whatever they want so long as idiotic fans will give them money to do so. Anyway, let's end this because you guys ignore anything people have to say. Just realize what they did was wrong and should've never happened. It's completely [b]immoral and shameless[/b]. Since nothing will convince close-minded people to wake up and see how bad TPCi must be to do this, let's stop. :)[/quote]
Pot, have you met kettle yet?
[quote]Why should I shut up, though? What they did was wrong, is wrong, and will always be wrong. If the Japanese seiyus were all replaced, it would just as bad. We need to stop this. That's it. The old VAs truly cared and what I've said is self-evident of that. That's all I gotta say, really. They are actually very good people and letting this happen to them is a huge mistake on our part that we need to band together and let them come back in the right roles. :)
I honestly don't know about Legend of the Galactic Heroes but I can tell you that what we let happen 7 years ago was a tragedy and seeing how much the old VAs truly cared and miss their jobs, I can say wholeheartedly that we shouldn't let TPCi get away with this. Replacing the true English VAs is like replacing the Japanese seiyus: what we let happen is beyond bad. We have to somehow let them get their main roles back. I don't know how, but we can't let this go on. They cried...how could we let this happen? Are we truly this greedy and immoral that we'll continue to let TPCi do this? My god...I thought we were made of better stuff than that. :([/quote]
Can I ask what your last post has to do with Legend of the Galactic Heroes?
BCVM22 appears to talk some sense into him with this post:
[quote]If I had to guess why you should shut up?
Probably because you're taking it way, way, way too personally and assigning an actual negative moral value to a business decision. Regarding voice actors. For a cartoon.
Probably because you're crying as if people were hurt, maimed, killed or otherwise actually harmed for being taken off of a television show.
Probably because you're going so incredibly and terribly far as to claim simply watching said show in its current state is itself a moral failing.
Probably because there are just so many things wrong with all of these things that I honestly don't even know where to start.
Just a hunch, though.[/quote]
Notice I said "appears".
Anyway, Jb asks what PN2000's last comment had to do with Jolteon91's post on Legend of the Galactic Heroes, and he says it's bad to watch the newer episodes on TV, and that he responded to it to prove that the Pokemon fanbase was worse than LotGH's (what?). PN2000 also states that he's 18 (now 20 at least), meaning he's not in the target audience.
Guess what he posts next? Another sob story...
[quote]There are very few little kids who like the anime nowadays, JB. Don't you see that it's because of the bad voice acting nowadays? My little brother can't even watch the anime for Black and White: when I showed him a few clips of Advanced he was hooked on it. He couldn't even believe how good it was! He asked me what happened and I almost broke into tears! It is wrong to do so and keep these guys! Was Rica replaced as Ash? Was Yuji replaced as Brock? Was Shinchiro replaced as James? NO! Stop defending them when they did a bad thing! Don't you guys see what I mean? And we've let this go on for almost 7 freaking years! Are we this callous and cold-hearted? Really not right, not at all. :([/quote]
Or maybe other shows on the same block like Ben 10 and Tenkai Knights hold their interest more. Most of the target audience have probably never seen a 4Kids-dubbed episode. How do we know for sure that he's not lying?
[quote]It has affected me personally and trying to demean me the way you guys are shows you don't care for what anyone who has differing opinions claims. It's not right. It doesn't happen after 422 episodes and 8 movies...it NEVER has. We've never gotten terrible replacements after such a long time either who haven't improved for crap after almost seven years. Pathetic. Please Parachomp, delete this thread. I'm beyond sad and depressed at this. I'm trying to make you guys realize this is wrong and it should not have happened. Yes, Metagross person (I'm not even going to look at your username), it's wrong. Stop denying it! :([/quote]
Look who's talking. Who was the one saying that people are wrong for supporting something you don't like? Who's the one playing the victim just to prove a point? Who's the one who keeps derailing the thread with their sob stories? You.
Also, "Metagross person" is BCVM22, for those wondering.
AceFloone says that he twisted this thread into madness of his bias opinions of the dub, which is true. More idiocy:
[quote]What about you guys? You're just as biased, if not worse, hammering 1 person for no apparent reason. It's wrong and you're just as bad as those callous TPCi people for stopping me from at least giving you the truth. I can't even believe how cold-hearted you guys are: these people are evil and they could have easily refused the jobs. I will never support them for what they did, and the fact that their dubbing is atrocious doesn't help me help them either. Sarah, Bill, these people are just so wrong and they should realize what they did has hurt many people. :([/quote]
Says the person who was whining about people supporting something "immoral". No one said anything to or about you or your precious dub until you derailed the thread. How are they "cold-hearted"? Because they don't care about the anime, period? They wouldn't be "hammering" you if you had just kept your mouth shut and stop harassing everyone.
...We're barely halfway through this thread.
PN2000 keeps repeating himself, basically stating "the new dub has bad scripts and voices" but refuses to provide any real examples outside of rants that other people have made. AceFlonne asks if they can talk about something else aside from Pokemon, TPCi and 4Kids. Then he gets this response from PN2000:
[quote]Yes please, quit it already. I can tell you guys aren't open to any opposing opinions especially after what I showed you approximately five pages ago, so let's stop this. :)[/quote]
What have you shown aside from your bias and close-mindedness?
One person says that genwunners are the worst. For those who don't know, genwunners are people who only like the first generation of Pokemon (and possibly the second) and say that the newer games are bad without having given them a chance. PN2000 quotes him just to say this:
[quote]Personally, for me, TPCi dub lovers. Idiots! Supporting trash! XD.[/quote]
Didn't he just say he wanted to quit it already? Either he's gone insane or he's just an idiot. I could replace "TPCi" with "4Kids" in that sentence and it would easily apply to him, he didn't even make a point.
He reposts his list again, which has already been refuted.
[quote]You are the biggest hypocrite for supporting TPCi, a group that booted fine VAs and writers after 400+ episodes. Pathetic. You shouldn't even be talking about hypocrisy. Just watch the former VAs cry and you'll learn how bad what you're saying is. :([/quote]
Again, how are they hypocrites? He's not even using the term correctly. If anyone is a hypocrite, it's him. He said in earlier posts that he wanted the current voice actors to be booted from their roles after saying it was wrong for the 4Kids cast to be kicked out. He doesn't show any proof of the former actors crying. I looked myself, and there's a video of Stan Hart tearing up when talking about his role as Professor Oak, but he doesn't really talk about TPCi. So until he shows actual proof, I'm going to take everything he says with a grain of salt.
[quote]You. are. a. hypocrite. You don't even know what happened to the old VAs at all, apparently, or the millions of fans who quit solely because of how horrendous the dub is now. 218 episodes is NOT 422. Don't you get that? Don't you realize getting someone off the street (Sarah N.) to dub is a bad decision along with the worst 4Kids VAs Rogers and Zoppi/Cathcart as well as those who work in poorly received dubs like Gravitation and Genshiken (Michele K., Bill R.). Seriously, TPCi are hypocrites. They spout stuff in their intro that they don't even follow. :( I'm not saying this out of spite but rather to show you what really happened and how bad it was.[/quote]
So they're hypocrites for making intros? A lot of celebrities are nothing like you'd expect if judging them by their songs alone, are you going to say they're "hypocrites", too? He says "millions" of fans quit, but doesn't provide ratings or anything. He explains what he means by his second-to-last statement above:
[quote]If you insist, also please stop using the word because you don't know where it's appropriate. Let me state it this way: a hypocrite is someone who does something contrary to his or her beliefs. And TPCi did just that when they replaced the voice actors who did such a great job dubbing it with horrendous people and claiming there's heart inside of people (BWRD episode in dub currently) or in Galactic Battles intro (follow your heart) etc. when they don't practice what they preach. It's hypocritical on all levels: it's callous, mean, and just completely ignorant of the truth. See what I mean? You or I may not be hypocrites (and I'm sorry for using that word to describe you so I apologize), but when they do something like that and say the contrary belief, then they lost all my respect. :([/quote]
Do you know their beliefs? No? How do you know they didn't "follow their hearts" when making the decisions that anger you so much?
He whines some more about people that support the "garbage" known as TPCi's Pokemon dub, posts a couple more sob stories that I'm sure has long since wore thin, then he makes THIS post:
[quote]I can't anymore. I'm kept from the anime I love solely because the voice acting and scripting is too far beneath what I can take. That's all I can say, really. It's atrocious and I don't know WHY I held out this hope that the dubbers would improve but they haven't at all and some like Brock in DP and Meowth in BW are even worse. I guess I'll just watch the series in JPN w/subs permanently now. Way to go, TPCi, way to go. You are now worse than 4Kids ever was in my book. Just amazing how bad you guys are. [b]May you sick twisted executives at TPCi rot in hell for the rest of your days for keeping the true English VAs from where they should be and giving us possibly the crappiest replacements on Earth to fill their shoes. :([/b][/quote]
This is just appalling... he wants people to go to hell just because he personally didn't like what they did. He's been calling the fanbase "callous" and "cold-hearted", but he's closer to those definitions than anyone else. If that's not hypocritical, then I don't know what is.
He then goes on to brag about his fandub which is better than the current dub. Give it a rest already...
TheWatersGreatGuardian tells him he's throwing a temper tantrum over a TV show, and he responds with this:
[quote]This "TV show" means a lot to me: whether you think so or not is entirely up to you. It was quite a good anime series too in English. It cheered me up whenever I was sad or depressed...watching the TPCi dub just gets me more depressed and upset, truthfully. It was my favorite anime series and looking at what TPCi did to makes me utterly confused, ashamed, and appalled that I give them money when I buy the games. If you guys like it, by all means, do what you will. But I simply don't.[/quote]
How about buying them used, then? True, Pokemon games are usually best brought new, since they don't get any cheaper, but since he's so anti-TPCi, then you'd think he'd consider that. All I'm seeing is more whining.
Then he breaks down and posts petitions that won't work. Here's what he has to say now:
[quote]They got replaced seven years ago. Please, it was wrong and we can make a difference if you guys will wake up and see just how adversely it's affected the franchise. Please, I'm asking this not as a fan but just as the right thing to do. To let these people continue to do what they are is wrong.[/quote]
[quote]That's not the case. I already told you that. TPCi just wanted money and that's where the whole fiasco came from. I've watched MANY different anime like those and it's time we stopped this crap from going on any longer. You can deny it all you want, but it was wrong in 2006, and it's still wrong in 2012. You are way off on what actually happened: Nintendo refused to contact the old VAs at all and the producers at TAJ wouldn't even consider letting them work on the anime. Plus, if the main cast VAs broke their contracts, they'd be breaking the law. It's not opinion, it's fact.[/quote]
Nintendo has nothing to do with the Pokemon anime, unless he meant "TPCi". Either way, he's saying "TPCi just wanted money" when the same can be said for any company. What do you think any of the original actors would say if they were to see this thread and him giving them a bad name?
Towards the end, he says that we all should respect all fans... which is the exact opposite of what he was doing. He made much more posts, but they're just more of the same things he's been saying before. Then the thread gets closed. It took them 17 pages and 414 posts, but they finally got it closed.
UPDATE: http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1691&page=18
Look at pages 18-20, and take note of post #186 on the nineteenth page of the thread in particular.