And, since I rewatched Auto-Bop not that long ago, something involving the "transform around the passenger/put friend into your chest and transform" moment?
I will never shy away from the word goon. goon is the only way to describe a particular type of henchman, lackey, or thug. look at these guys. they're goons.
The background seemed very familiar, in an extremely mundane way, so after dissecting some frames I can 100% confirm - this is Kazakhstan, in fact (there is signage for a Halyk ATM). Can't tell the city, but most likely is not Almaty - one of the segments is filled on what appears to be a bridge across a wide river. Maybe somewhere in the north?
like there are so many fun medieval hair and headgear options, it's so boring just seeing loose beachy waves meant to appeal to 21st century beauty standards
put that hot prince in a gay little hood with an ostrich feather or so help me god
Since it's been going around, how would various pulp heroes take on the Death Note murders, and would they survive the ordeal?
A couple of clarifications:
There is a possibility that Ogon Bat, who is a "God of Justice", is either already some kind of shinigami, or at least able to speak with and interact with Ryuk just fine.
The Golden Amazon and Emilia the Ragdoll could definitely kick Kira's ass and solve the case, but they absolutely should not be aware of the existence of the Death Note, that would just make things worse.
You'd think The Monarch / The Blue Morpho getting his hands on the Death Note would be an equally apocalyptic scenario but I don't think he'd even know what to do with it. He very clearly just wants to get one guy, and became the Blue Morpho so he could kill everyone standing in the way of getting that guy, and he's very clearly been putting off killing that one guy for years now. The Death Note is the solution to a problem he defines his life around trying and failing to solve. He'd be stumped.
Doc Savage, well on one hand of course he would solve the case, he's Doc Savage, if Kira was in a Doc Savage story the whole Shinigami business would have been smoke and mirrors perpetrated by criminals with access to a heart attack inducing machine with a perfectly logical explanation. On the other hand, Doc Savage is one of the only guys in here who is globally famous with his full name and face on the papers, so realistically Kira would nail him very quickly. I'm gonna split the difference by saying Doc would solve the case either way.
Nick Carter does most of the things Doc Savage does except he actually does regularly encounter weird fantastical kitchen sink bullshit on the regular, so I think he'd have a much easier time wrapping his head around the Death Note's particulars.
The Spider would not intuit the mechanics of the Death Note, he probably would not be aware of there even being a thing as a Death Note, but by the end of the story in the last paragraph he would have killed Kira one way or another, very possibly by accident. Same goes for the sword-n-sorcery characters featured there, they would have gotten their kills by the end of it (Spear would probably have the easiest time, he's just a caveman with a giant tyrannosaurus on his side and neither of them have names Light can use to kill them, he's fucked)
Six-Gun Gorilla does have a name that Light could use, but A: He would never find out, B: He would never think a gorilla would be his undoing, and C: There's a decent chance Ryuk would let the gorilla hunt and kill him because it's funny and so would be handing Six-Gun Gorilla the Death Note.
Nyctalope would probably survive Kira's usual method of execution given his heart is artificial, but I don't think he'd be able to crack the case, he's not much of a detective. A lot of these characters were chosen because they have different skillsets that don't make them as suited for uncovering this case regardless of how smart they are.
There is a decent chance that Hugo Danner would figure out Kira by complete accident, and most likely beg Light to find a way to kill him.
Nick and Nora Charles would not solve it but they'd be okay, the case would probably solve itself and they'd laugh it off.
I could also put Blue Morpho, El Sombra, The Whisperer, Black Bat and Hugo Danner in a "Would somehow make the situation worse" category.
Putting the names of the characters below the cut:
Can intuit the mechanics / Can solve the case
-The Shadow, Arsene Lupin, Sherlock Holmes, Mexican Fantomas
-Heiji Zenigata, Ogon Bat, Thomas Carnacki, Silver John/John the Balladeer, Sar Dubnotal
-Nero Wolfe, Tom Strong, Tesla Strong, Nick Carter, Captain Harlock, Golden Amazon
-Ducky (Lavender Jack), Rufus Carter, Theresa Ferrier (Lavender Jack), Emilia the Ragdoll, Carmen Sandiego, Rocambole
Can intuit the mechanics / Could not solve the case
-The Spirit, The Phantom, Edison Hark (The Good Asian), Lavender Jack
-G-8, Green Lama, Peter Cannon, Jules Grandin, Wesley Dodds, Judex
-Indiana Jones, Spider-Man Noir, John Blacksad, John Thunstone, Nyctalope, Tintin, Solomon Kane
Cannot the mechanics / Can solve the case
-The Spider, The Avenger, Doc Savage, Honoria Crabb
-Assane Diop, Conan the Barbarian, Lobster Johnson, Tarzan, Dick Tracy
-Flash Gordon, Professor Challenger, Red Sonja, Scrooge McDuck, Imaro
-Byomkesh Bakshi, Six-Gun Gorilla, Spear (Primal), Black Terror, The Blue Morpho
Cannot intuit the mechanics / Could not solve the case
-Moon Man, Green Hornet & Kato, Lone Ranger, The Scarecrow of Romney Marsh
-Phillip Marlowe, Domino Lady, Rocketeer, Miss Fury, Hugo Danner, John Carter
-Zorro, Black Bat, El Sombra, Shaft, Sailor Steve Costigan
-Darkman, The Whisperer, Nick & Nora Charles, Crimson Clown
Whenever or not the Waynes get saved by passing samaritans of any - mundane, magical or alien, crossover or original - kind (the first reason this idea came to me) is a secondary concern.
The point is, by the predestination or rule or law, a young Bruce after a frightening night looks at a bat, looks at the general state of Gotham and comes to an exact same decision to the one made in grief.
And and same broody attitude, so he is Just Like That naturally. Thomas and Martha are surprisingly supportive of his undertaking (well, they live in Gotham).
Also, there's great comedy potential in "I am the Vengeance, I am the Night... Oh, good morning, Mom, I was just going to bed" (and this is the second reason) as a routine.
Back into more serious gear, Spoiled Rich Idiot Manchild Son Of Known Philanthropes is even more of an ironclad cover for a moody vigilante than simply Spoiled Rich Idiot Manchild. Or civilian Bruce may, as to not damage his parents' respectable reputation, be a reclusive nobody, or a volunteering pacifist. A lot of routes, here.
Okay, it came to me while workshopping a crossover about a slightly different gear-wise Batman who is mentored and backed by aliens but retains the same image and attitude, but then the idea of even less changes between timelines came.
I’m sorry that’s just Warren Worthington the third
No, Warren is not that.
The whing about Warren Worthington is that he is an X-Man. And X-Men are conceptually tied around their powers. Warren has superpowers, and therefore he is getting press-ganged into either superheroing or supervillaining. He would not be costuming up if he did not have wings. The Call To Adventure has his address already.
The closer analogue would be someone akin to Ted Kord, but Ted is both a legacy act and a slightly different but adjacent cape archetype.
(There also the problem of Batman being basically the first of his kind, the pulp hero becoming super, therefore making "Batman" an archetype in itself)
My idle musing was both a set-up for a punchline "turns out he is just goth" and an inquiry to the character motivation (with a sprinkle of metatextual determinism bullshit). Because a rich person without a tragic backstory usually becomes an adventurer, although the scenario of vigilantism without a notable tragic backstory was a thing back during the pulp era.
An unpowered vigilante superhero who is neither a legacy act, specifically a scientist-gadgeteer or has a tragic backstory is a very much rare thing nowadays
No you’re right, “Batman with loving parents” is closer to Ted Kord than Warren. My bad. Terrible comparison
I will say what I mean by backstory jenga if you change a character too much they stop being that character
Homelander is what happens if you backstory jenga Superman too much. By my strict criteria Ultimate Magneto and silver Age Magneto AREN’T Magneto. It doesn’t matter who is first to me. What matters is once a character crystalizes some traits are essentisl
I’m conflicted on if a batman whose parents are alive is still batman you make a very compelling argument but I’m still not fully convinced
“An unpowered vigilante superhero who is neither a legacy act, specifically a scientist-gadgeteer or has a tragic backstory is a very much rare thing nowadays”
Fair point!
was it common in any era? I’m a bronze age girlie who doesn’t know the golden and silver ages well
It's fine. Although I'll be honest, it was literally the first time in my life I've seen Warren Worthington directly compared to Batman, so thanks for the new experience.
Ah, the good old "at this point it's time to make an OC" moment.
This is actually a bit of a problem with both long-running series with multiple adaptations which are leaning on their adaptability a lot (aside from comics, there are toyline-based things like Transformers and their siblings) and long-established single-source archetypes. Are we tweaking the character or the archetype? Is every tragic avenger with a thematic costume a commentary on Batman specifically or simply inspired by him and his substrate? Where does Batman-the-character end and Batman-the-archetype begin?
There's is also a problem of an omnipresence there, too. If I say that I'm mysterious intruder cloaked in the shadows, donning my costume of spins wheel Black Swan to avenge the tragic fate that befell my parents everyone would justifiably assume that I was a female Batman with a bird/ballet theme, but if I declared myself a sorcerer from Atlantis, voluntarily placed in a deep sleep inside a coffin for several millenia until the day comes when my great powers are needed to protect the world again people would go "sounds rather retro, but okay", and won't ask wherever I am a constantly laughing golden skeleton whose primary weapon is a cane (although Ogon Bat, one of the candidates for the title of first superhero and arguably the first superhero of Japan, is not very dependent on his backstory, as his entire thing of being a laughing golden skeleton is more notable). But if the hypothetical parents-avenging Black Swan is not a character in a superhero or superhero-adjacent comic/cartoon/movie/book, but instead dwells in a throws a dart Italian 80's horror movie, the Batman connection would be less apparent. See: that one wuxia novel from the sixties which has Basically Spider-Man as a side character, complete with attitude and web-shooters. Things that are commonplace there are unheard of elsewhere.
In my opinion this... I want to call it "trukk not munky"-ing, but it's a term not quite about that, is a bit unproductive given the general malleability of the material in question, but honestly I understand. I simply have my standarts somewhat looser.
The point of a scenario is basically a gag of "everything the same despite this major detail being changed", which could actually be good question while we are on this topic. The opposite of the Ship of Theseus, "how many things can be changed for the end result to be the same". Still, given everything done with the characters in question both in canon, what-if elseworlds and adaptation it's not like there's a strict set of rules.
While I probably need a refresher myself, I actually can point to the original Silver Age Batwoman and some number of her follow ups, if she is not considered a legacy act as a copycat, as one - she is not a scientist-gadgeteer and her initial motivation, before the retcons, was as non-tragic as it could be. Other than that, there is a good substrate of "costumed adventurers" which were more vigilante heroes than explorer-adventurers (Watchmen kind of alluded to that era, but Watchmen specifically are unbuilt in that aspect, as the cast of Watchmen are almost all depowered pastiches derived from Charleston characters, many of whom had superpowers), and action heroes which were just mundane martial artists - Peacemaker is one. I'd actually gesture to the pre-Golden Age era of pulp heroes like The Shadow from which Batman was derived as a benchmark of sorts - a lot of them are urban vigilantes, and aside from gimmicky gadgetry of some are rather grounded - Wesley Dodds Sandman is a product of that era who transitioned into a superhero. There certainly are people out there who are more well-versed in the pulp heroics than me at the moment who can name more, but I'd recon unpowered heroes were more common in that era - also consider a chunk of war-time propaganda patriotic heroes, as IIRC a good portion of them didn't have powers. A bit later there was a short period of kung fu craze and general action movie incursion at the very beginning of bronze age which brough a lot of new characters which were initially were basically unpowered during their debut but quickly gained powers later, mostly by the way of magic kung fu.
There is also a surviving line of action-adventure genre which can be considered very much superhero-adjacent, but that can and will spiral towards amazing questions like "is G. I. Joe a superhero series?"
Whenever or not the Waynes get saved by passing samaritans of any - mundane, magical or alien, crossover or original - kind (the first reason this idea came to me) is a secondary concern.
The point is, by the predestination or rule or law, a young Bruce after a frightening night looks at a bat, looks at the general state of Gotham and comes to an exact same decision to the one made in grief.
And and same broody attitude, so he is Just Like That naturally. Thomas and Martha are surprisingly supportive of his undertaking (well, they live in Gotham).
Also, there's great comedy potential in "I am the Vengeance, I am the Night... Oh, good morning, Mom, I was just going to bed" (and this is the second reason) as a routine.
Back into more serious gear, Spoiled Rich Idiot Manchild Son Of Known Philanthropes is even more of an ironclad cover for a moody vigilante than simply Spoiled Rich Idiot Manchild. Or civilian Bruce may, as to not damage his parents' respectable reputation, be a reclusive nobody, or a volunteering pacifist. A lot of routes, here.
Okay, it came to me while workshopping a crossover about a slightly different gear-wise Batman who is mentored and backed by aliens but retains the same image and attitude, but then the idea of even less changes between timelines came.
I’m sorry that’s just Warren Worthington the third
No, Warren is not that.
The whing about Warren Worthington is that he is an X-Man. And X-Men are conceptually tied around their powers. Warren has superpowers, and therefore he is getting press-ganged into either superheroing or supervillaining. He would not be costuming up if he did not have wings. The Call To Adventure has his address already.
The closer analogue would be someone akin to Ted Kord, but Ted is both a legacy act and a slightly different but adjacent cape archetype.
(There also the problem of Batman being basically the first of his kind, the pulp hero becoming super, therefore making "Batman" an archetype in itself)
My idle musing was both a set-up for a punchline "turns out he is just goth" and an inquiry to the character motivation (with a sprinkle of metatextual determinism bullshit). Because a rich person without a tragic backstory usually becomes an adventurer, although the scenario of vigilantism without a notable tragic backstory was a thing back during the pulp era.
An unpowered vigilante superhero who is neither a legacy act, specifically a scientist-gadgeteer or has a tragic backstory is a very much rare thing nowadays