(this is a very long ask sorry in advance omg šš)
i just saw a post talking about bylers not understanding that the queer subtext of byler could have never been intentional (from a byler too, which is crazy) and like i know what they were trying to say in regards to queer subtext existing in other media, but likeā¦ will is in love with mike. canonically. this is not a debate. it was set up for YEARS, at the VERY least since s3, though most certainly earlier given everything going on with s2 byler and the way mikeās reactions are singled out compared to the rest of the party in s1. hell, will and mike are both alluded to using fantasy to escape reality in the og montauk pitch, and willās was tied to his sexuality, as was mikeās in a way (his big goal being to ākiss a girlā) which really makes you thinkā¦
i know this isnāt exactly cg related but it was from a post about that and itās so incredibly frustrating to be gaslit to this degree within the fandom. yes, other shows/movies/etc have had queer subtext that never paid off. yes, this is not the first time this has happened (presuming this is all we get). yes, there have been ships with queer subtext and parallels to other ships that were done unintentionally or not with the intention of paying these things off. but none of those ships involved a CANONICALLY GAY character having CANONICAL FEELINGS for the other.
for example: dustin has a crush on max in s2, but max notably does not show any interest in dustin at any point. they very purposefully paired her with lucas the whole season, and made it a point to give her and dustin zero one-on-one scenes. things like this are why dustin moving on after the snowball isnāt hard to believe, because we as the audience were never given any indication that max felt the same!
they knew how to set up a romantic storyline (see: s2 lumax) and they knew how to write a āwho will she chooseā love triangle, given the jancy/stancy of it all in the first two seasons. they INTENTIONALLY wrote dustin and maxās dynamic to be one sided and supported that in the text, despite dustin having canonical romantic feelings for max. my point being: they know how to write a platonic pairing where the feelings are unrequited, and they know how to represent that. they did NOT do this with byler.
the argument that āthey could have not known about the subtextā is such bullshit when theyāve been queercoding will from the beginning and then did SO much of the exact same shit with mike. you cannot earnestly tell me that while writing for s4 they wanted to put a spotlight on willās feelings for mike while also highlighting the issues in mike and janeās relationship before ONCE AGAIN separating them for a whole season while will and mike grow even closer, and not ONE person on the team thought āhm, doesnāt this seem a little pointed? does this not imply something?ā
maybe iām misunderstanding but it feels these people are basically saying āwell sometimes straight people dont understand their own queer subtextā which, sure, but when you know enough to make one character canonically in love with the other (and show that through built up details and hints through the seasons), you should at the very least be able to ask yourself, āhow does mike feel about will?ā and if the answer is that mikeās feelings are platonic, then they could have shown that. theyāve done it before, yet they didnāt now. i wonder why!
it is such a heteronormative argument to insist that mikeās queer subtext was all accidental (and VERY disrespectful to the queer people in the writerās room/working on the show, mind you) because itās literally just based on the idea that mike being gay has to be explicitly spelled out to make sense. like, no. thereās a reason mike only makes sense through a queer lens, and the switch up of his behavior between seasons 2 and 3 was too specific to have been accidental. (if they solely had an issue writing straight ships, lucas would have been as bad as mike in s3 AND lumax would be written as poorly as mlvn are, yet theyāre not. itās almost like they know how to write a good ship and how to write a bad one!)
this is so frustrating because itās one thing to say that they did this intentionally just to queerbait (which seems incredibly excessive for such a huge show) but it is FAR crazier to try and argue that it ALL happened accidentally and sort ofā¦ imply that bylers are delusional for suggesting otherwise? oh sorry, who would have thought that mikeās canonical parallels to the other 3 canonically queer characters could mean something! obviously it meant nothing when it came to mike (even though it was intentional for will, for robin, for vickieā¦) and they did that accidentally (primarily with mike, too, yet never other charactersā¦ right.) because straight people (as most bylers seem to assume the entire st team is) simply cannot comprehend queerness or queer subtext despite putting a Lot of it in their show, outside of (though often still relating to!) mike. my bad, guys! sorry for using logic!!
(im so sorry for the rant but i am sooo tired of being treated like iām stupid for picking up very obvious textual evidence of a requited romantic pairing on a show that KNOWS how to write unrequited love. and from other bylers at that? i feel like iām losing my mind.)
i feel really bad for leaving this ask for so long in my ask box, it's very beautifully and well said. everyone thinking such way should see this.
we know will always was meant to be gay, the montauk pitch you brought up confirms it, it was stated by duffers/noah/shawn as well. if you always planned your mc to be gay, why would you be homophobic?
i'm tired of people saying that it all meant nothing and it was a mass delusion or whatever, there has never been such a case as byler at all. even without bringing up any details - one of them is in love while the other jumped into relationship with a girl after a week of knowing her and continuously has problems in said relationship - it already sounds like a set up, no? it comes down to writing, not their on-screen chemistry or potential like with most cases of queerbaiting...
if queercoding of will's or vickie's payed off, it feels very strange that mike's queercoding seemingly did not, even though it's arguably bigger.
this fandom has a quite strange way of coping, even though i know anything barely makes sense right now, that doesn't override anything established in s4 or previous mike's queercoding - that very much went on in s5 (quite explicitly too).
and yes, you cannot just pick and choose which pair you write well or not, especially if it's only one couple that has jarring differences compared to other canon pairings and parallels the failed one. this doesn't happen to that extent unless the show is written by like hundreds of people.
i agree with everything you said, it feels dismissive and heteronormative to think this way - let's not resort to this. there are many others explanations.
