Spider must be protected at all costs!

[cozy-stardust]

Finally got the chance to watch Ash and Fire tonight and I swear to god if anybody has anything bad to say about my SON

You can square up w/ me right fucking now he is three apples tall and he is a god damn BABY

[hi-you-2]

It's SO interesting that Spider is the character who gets the most hate online, when his entire role in the movies is that no one hates him and everyone cares about him.

Jake and Quaritch worked together to save him. The RDA kept Jake alive so they wouldn’t kill Spider. Lo’ak didn’t kill Quaritch because Spider was in the line of fire. Neytiri questioned her own morals to accept him. Even Varang shows morbid curiosity towards him.

Sure, some of their motives are very questionable. But he really is the SPIDER WEB THAT HOLDS EVERYONE TOGETHER. There isn’t a single character in the movie who genuinely hates him and actively wants him dead.

And then you go online and seemingly everyone think's he should die asap.

Where does that massive difference come from?🤔🤔

[eywasmiracle]

What if they gave Spider a little bioluminescence? As a treat.

[cararata]

I wanna draw spider in more despair now...the movie barely went there so SOMEONE has to make spider process or express his emotions somehow. What you went through spider WAS fucked up and traumatic now go cry and throw up into a corner

[puppetwoman17]

Thinking about Spider, as you do.

Anyone ever think about how literally no one made a rescue plan when he was captured by the recoms? And I’m not just talking about the Sullys and the Omatikaya. I get that the kids couldn’t do much. I’ve already talked in and out of my head about Jake and Neytiri.

No, what I’m the most pissed about is the scientists who supposedly raised him. And no I’m not talking about the McCoskers. That ship has already sailed. And also it’s just another set of names added to the “I Don’t Feel Like Taking Care of Spider” list.

I’m talking about Norm, Max, and the other scientists at High Camp. Because at no point in the second movie do we hear any sort of worry, anger, desperation, or WIP rescue plan from these guys. None. They are not involved at all. Oh, they’ll heal Kiri all the way across the reef(no Kiri hate obvi), but they won’t muster any pleads for Jake to rally a squad, or build some kind of rescue tools themselves.

These people have watched Spider grow up. They practically raised him(as much as scientists could anyway).

Even better!(she said sarcastically) Our boy Norm has two kids, apparently! Wow! So he does feel parental love! So…is there any there for the boy he’s helped take care of for sixteen years? Or is that only reserved for kids who haven’t made the demonic mistake of having Quaritch’s blood?

But no, Jake and practically the movie itself bends over backwards to tell everyone that “Spider’s a tough kid, guys. He’ll be fine, don’t worry about him!” Like, applause all around, friends, cause that makes me feel soooo much better!

I don’t know how Jake of all ppl could stand there and say that because Spider is human, he’ll be fine. Like be so for real, dude. Did the events of the first movie just leave his mind? Grace’s death? His own near death?

Oh but then Jake decides to surprise us and reveal that he never thought spider was a “tough kid”. “That kid knows everything”. Right? We’ve gotta leave and go even farther away where spider will never be able to find us, right?

It’s like…It’s like the whole world’s been rewritten. I’m not joking, that’s just how it looks. It’s like…the Sullys are living their best lives in the reef, the Omatikaya are thriving with their new chief, the scientists are doing whatever. It’s like Spider never existed to these people.

There’s not a whisper of his name. And that got to me, it really did.

[day-break-nightmare]

In my eyes I do not think they see Spider. Only the kids see Spider, everyone else sees Quaritch just like how they see Grace in Kiri. Spider in their eyes is the demon left behind by another demon, too tainted by his mere birth that he can not be anything other than the son of a demon, while Kiri is a blessing the daughter of their beloved Grace that has a strong connection with Eywa herself, she is pure. In that sense the people around them see Kiri and Spider in the same way, but at the same time they see them as polar opposites of eachother.

They will always see Quaritch in Spider. Spider has spent his life paying for his fathers sins. He would have made himself independent and self reliant so that he would not bother anyone. He became a 'tough kid' not because he wanted to it was because he had to.He had to look out for himself because he learnt that no one else would and everyone around him nevr questioned it. That was what led to a sixteen year old being kidnapped by a man they considered a demon and taken to a place where they knew he was be taken in for information, and them doing nothing about it after all he's a 'tough kid' he can look after himself. But that never erased the fact that he was tainted by the demon, he would give them what they want, he was born from evil he is bound to be the same.

[spiridefender]

This may be a hot take but hear me out. Eywa being Spider's parent. Not anyone else.

Jake tried to kill him - not good. Neytiri has always kept him at a distance - not good. Quaritch sides with the RDA, which goes against everything he loves - not good. His foster family were abusive - not good. Norm and Max have High Camp and Grace's avatar to deal with - understandable but still not great. Norm also would've mourned Trudy for a bit as well as being a father figure to orphaned Na'vi kids (see comics).

Meanwhile, Eywa saved his life by allowing him to breathe the air. Eywa kept him alive despite all the aforementioned actions. Eywa allowed him to enter the spirit world, despite being human. Eywa is the only parent good for him.

Note: This isn't intended as hate towards any character.

[reyinei]

Let’s nap with mama!

[lloyd-007]

OMG THE KIDS ARE HUGE

And then there’s spider

[supine-ly]

Avatar doodles

is it obvious who my favorite is

[melted-00]

I wish they would give us a new comic with more of their new dynamic.

(English isn't my first language sorry for any mistake)

[eywasmiracle]

It wasn’t a very smart decision for Spider to leave the dog tags behind. He’s alone, with NOTHING, and the second he gets the chance he ditches the only tool he has, a tool that was hard to acquire and just proved useful.

That’s how bad he wanted to send a deliberate fuck you to Quaritch. He wanted him to find them. To see them and know “I never wanted you, not even for a second. I tricked you. I used your weakness against you old man, and you fell for it.”

[spiderisbestboy]

Every time I rewatch ATWOW with the knowledge of AFAA, all I see is Quaritch exhibiting non-stop clown behavior

[dirtytransmasc]

thinking about how hard Spider tried to save his little brother...

the way he literally tries to curl his body around Neteyam to shield the wound from the open water makes me want to vomit.

he was both the eldest and the smallest. he was brave and just moved on instinct. his only words were encouraging Lo'ak that he had Neteyam, or to urge them forward. he did everything he could to help, using all his strength to hold Neteyam onto the Ilu and help lift him, even when his little brother was so much bigger than himself. like. he's just a kid. he held onto 'teyam with everything he had. cause that was his brother.

[dirtytransmasc]

Was just on the wiki and it says that Neyetam called Spider 'little brother', but he called Lo'ak 'baby brother', which means that he's just teasing Spider about his height, and now I'm gonna cry 😭

it's truly such a "taller younger sibling" thing for him to do 😭 like I know that pisses Spider off. or at least did when they were a little younger. and it's just their inside joke now.

Neteyam totally went for a headlock when he said it cause he was expecting Spider to fight him over it like normal, trust 😭🤚 Spider was just too in awe of getting to see his baby brother to give into Neteyam's teasing

[holyraconteur]

I think about Spider bonding with an aerial predator that looks just like the Quetzalcoatlus. Just Spider bonding with a giant, winged monstrosity that can cut you into three pieces with its sharp, long beak.

[stargazsposts]

i like avatar fire and ash but i don’t like the way people are acting like Neytiri and spider’s relationship could be boiled down to mother and son. I’ve seen some people saying that neytiri felt like she was losing her own child in those moments just as she had when Neteyam was dying. However I think it’s a matter and a moment of Neytiri realizing that this is an innocent soul. A child who grew up with her own children, and realizing that he was truly innocent from the prejudice she was harboring for him. He should not have to pay for the sins of a war that he did not start. In my opinion, I feel like she had a come to moment by seeing the red on her hands envisioning blood, Spider’s blood, it took her back to the rock that Neteyam died on. It took her back to seeing her child’s blood on her hands. It prompted her to come to terms that she would be responsible for the death of an innocent just as the sky people were for her son. Her realizing that makes her just as bad as the people she most hates. The blood of an innocent child would directly be in her hands. I don’t think Neytiri could ever see Spider as a son, but I think she’ll gladly accept him into their family. I think it’s unfair to categorize Spider as her son given the time frame she is in just having lost her first born son. Right now, she is not in the right headspace to deal with the implication of opening her heart up in such a way. Jake has always viewed Spider as part of their family and as a son, but Neytiri has never claimed that in the past and I don’t think that will change at the moment. This doesn’t take away from the important and nuanced relationship that is Neytiri and Spider but rather enhances it in my opinion! I believe there are different dynamics among that family but that doesn’t change them being family!

idk those are just my thoughts

[nilnether]

Yes, she never was his mother. She rejected him at every turn. It can't be fixed by one "I see you". This is just her recognizing him as his own person instead of just concentrating on what he is - pinkskin, human, son of The demon.

She was forced to confront her prejudices first for her own family and then it allowed ger to see how this also applied to Spider. She realized that she was wrong. That what Jake is going to do is wrong. And Spider becomes a person to her. A child. Someone worth protecting.

This doesn't suddenly make him her child or a member of the family. It's just a step in a reconciliation but it makes sense this will take time. A lifetime of rejection shouldn't be erased in day and a half.

The fact that this one moment doesn't resolve everything or made them magically mother and son is what makes it work. And, at least for me, it works so much better than Jake's sudden declarations of love (show it first).

[pignk]