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[syndrossi]

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RESONANT [AO3] Jon and Rhaegar wake up as children in the Vale during the reign of Viserys I, only to discover that in this life, they are the twin sons of Daemon Targaryen, and hidden since birth.

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[syndrossi]

I really liked your answer about Daemon’s relationship with his brothers in Unworthy Era AU. But what about his relationship with the older generation? His parents, Aemon, Naerys, Viserys, and his three aunts?

A lot of those are things that will unfold over the course of narrative (aka I'd probably figure out some of it by writing it). If I had to give a brief take, though...

Daeron: Obviously Daemon will love his father, and probably he reminds him a little of his original uncle Aemon, in terms of being thoughtful and kind-hearted. His love of peace and religious nature OTOH are things I could see being friction points between them. It's not that Daemon wants war after having lived through the Stepstones, but stubborn adherence to "peace even when the Iron Throne comes under threat" probably reminds him of his brother Viserys at times. And we know Daemon's attitude towards the Faith of the Seven.

Myriah: She's the one Daemon feels closer to by far. She's not unreligious, but it's less of a part of her identity than it is Daeron's, and she's much more fiery/willful like Daemon, and understands him much better than Daeron, given the similarities between them. I suspect Baelor is closer to Daeron (and vice versa), and it's the same with Myriah and Daemon. Some of that is probably strategic--if she's seen as being overly "influencing" over Baelor, then there are even more whispers about Dornish ambitions. But I also think that all the anguish her secondborn son is subjected to, from a very young age, really activate(d) her protectiveness. And because he's so "Targaryen" in every obvious way, yet feels things much in the way she does, she compensates in the other direction: in giving him some of her culture, in making sure he knows that he is loved and cherished by her. And obviously Daemon lost his mother in his first life, so having one is all the more meaningful to him.

Did I say brief take? Well, you all know me...

Naerys: Obviously Daemon bounces off of her embrace of piety, but I think he carves out a big exception for her, given how much she's suffered as Aegon's wife. And her fragility, as has been brought up before, does likely remind him a bit of Aemma, even if their personalities are different. Her not-so-occasionally embracing the fantasy of Daemon being her daughter's twin complicates things too, because of course Daemon is super loyal to his actual mother, and he frequently disavows any such claims made by anyone else, but she is incredibly sweet to him, and he doesn't want to upset her, so he accepts the mothering. If I had to sum it up, I'd say Daemon is slightly uncomfortable in her company, but also wants to protect her. (You can bet Aegon took plenty advantage of that, once he figured it out.)

Aemon: Aemon is also fairly pious, which, again, not Daemon's favorite thing. But Aemon is also a genuinely impressive man, as far as ability, fearlessness, and loyalty. Daemon also grew up with him as his personal sword shield, and that likely meant lots of being held and cuddled in the aftermath of candle dreams, so of course he feels a lot of affection for him. I wonder if part of him feels insecure about how he measures up to Aemon's standards? He doesn't share Aemon's unwavering faith, and he's never been a paragon of virtue. What if Aemon thinks he's like Aegon because of that? (Especially since Aemon, Naerys, Daeron, and Baelor are all upstanding examples of character and faith, basically in defiance of Aegon's example.)

Viserys: Oh man, SO MANY FEELINGS. That's his son he never know, a son he failed, and he spends his earliest memories learning all the painful ways in which he failed him. Everything Viserys suffered, the heavy burden he's felt since returning to Westeros. But Daemon is still a child himself, so he simultaneously is desperate to comfort Viserys, but also desperate for his comfort? I think things get a little easier when he's older and the candles are banished, and time spent with Viserys feels a bit like a refuge, since Viserys isn't enmeshed in the Faith the way all the other important adults in his life are. Viserys also probably treats him as older than he is (I mean, I guess there's no "probably" about it given the fact he's been using him as an object of therapy since he was a baby), which can feel like a relief sometimes. Basically, it's very complicated with Viserys, but at least he doesn't feel like Viserys doesn't trust him!

As for the three aunts are in this scenario, are we talking about Aegon III's daughters? (They would be Daemon's first cousins, twice removed, technically. They're Aegon, Aemon, and Naerys's direct cousins.)

Daena naturally is a bit complicated, given that she's B!Daemon's mother, and probably herself feels a bit weird about Aegon's treatment of R!Daemon. That said, I think her fling with Aegon was more an act of rebellion that lost its shine after she came to know Aegon's personality better. I would guess that they're cordial, but not particularly close.

Rhaena he probably never got to know well, since she left to become a septa at some point during his childhood.

Elaena he probably likes best? She has a very devil-may-care attitude and protects her children, bastard and trueborn alike, and a love of dragons, so I'm sure she loves getting to spend time with Daemon and Caraxes. She's also still at court, so she's a regular presence in his life.

[syndrossi]

I know this might be annoying, but mentioning the contents of the props from the House of The Dragon made me think that the dragon lord I mentioned, Jaehaelor Mataeryon might be, might be useful if you wanted, since besides the insights on Valyrian Culture the prop he appears in (such as the Lost Library of Tyria, or the implication that Valyrians believed gardening should follow the method of survival of the fittest), he’s also directly tied to Volantis, since he moved there after the Doom and it was there his dragon withered away (“in captivity”), while he died because he attempted to stop a whipping and was whipped to death by the pair of slave-owners he’d attempted to stop

IDK, the "gardening should follow the method of survival of the fittest" take honestly cracks me up because that's how you end up with a diet consisting solely of mint (and/or depleting your crops from lack of rotation/over-exposure to disease). I feel like it's trying too hard to shoehorn Valyrians into some hardcore mindset. They do seem very prideful (aka considering Aenar to be a "coward" for leaving Valyria) and likely quite cavalier about the value of lives of their "lessers," but I like to think they weren't complete idiots. Maybe one particular gardening idiot's treatise survived, though, and everyone infers the Valyrian approach toward gardening/farming from him. 😂

*checks HOTD wiki* Wait, was that one idiot this guy? Oof.

Jaehaelor seems like the other extreme though, re: "survival of the fittest" if that's how he died. Granted, there's a spectrum within all peoples, but a dragonlord concerning himself with the welfare of slaves is certainly on the opposite side of standard. Though reading over his wiki entry, he also killed a bedslave for eating something she wasn't supposed to from his garden?

Meanwhile, damn, what an opportunity Volantis wasted in this lore with a dragon + dragonlord in hand.

(I'm perhaps a bit overly critical here, I've never been super into the HOTD take on various pieces of lore. 😅 Though if the idea was that this one Valyrian with a specific gardening hobby he wasn't good at and strange opinions was one of the few survivors who recorded surviving pieces of Valyrian culture from which most of it was extracted/inferred by maesters in the future, there is a certain panache to it lol.)

[syndrossi]

Did you hear that Balerion was apparently the dragon of Daenys the Dreamer, and she claimed him the same night she had her dream (when he was the size of a horse)? Just reread a post where you mentioned calculating the age of Balerion and started wondering

Yep! He was the only dragon to have seen Valyria before its Doom. (And lived to see it after, I suppose, given Aerea's flight.) Though I don't recall reading the detail about Daenys claiming him after her dream, so that might be fanon / not book-canon? That or it's been too long since I read about that era in F&B.

We don't have an official age for him, really just a lower bound, aka he was old enough to make the flight to Dragonstone when Aenar left Valyria with his family. So he could have been born just a few years before the Doom, or entire decades!

[syndrossi]

reading your new post on Aegon and the swap rumor, I gotta ask: did Daemon at any point get fed up with the whole thing and make his feelings on the matter “clear” to the court? I just really feel like he’d react by threatening to burn his grandfather to death and telling anyone that says Myriah isn’t his mother that they sure like to run their mouths when her not asking is the only reason Caraxes doesn’t have a diet made 95% by courtiers

If I had money I’d sincerely pay for you to write a chapter on the unworthy era Au entirely on Aegon’s death

I’m legitimately wishing I was a fictional character just so I could personally murder the f*cker

Sorry, your last sentence made me think about the genre of reader fic, and what a hilarious way that would be to dip one's toe into it: by writing a ficlet where the reader gets to kill either Aegon IV (or Crayne, who many people also would gladly see dead). I can't honestly see myself doing so, but it definitely amuses me to think about it!

But going back to Daemon, yes, I'm sure he's lost his temper multiple times. As he's gotten older, that probably means taking out his frustrations in the yard, which is one way he got Dark Sister for a blade so early. (The other, obviously, being that Viserys II sees him as the second coming of his father, which just so happens to be true.)

I don't think he would escalate to the point of threatening to burn Aegon. Just flatly stating that he loathes him / wants nothing to do with him.

But the main problem is that no one is usually openly confrontational about it, outright saying "as we know, Daemon, you're not actually your father's/mother's son..." It's the subtle things, the ways he's invited by certain factions who try to ingratiate themselves with him by giving gifts/compliments/etc. It's the wink-wink nature in which they speak about his father. Sometimes, it's hard to distinguish between people showing interest/curiosity because he's a dragonrider and people who are gauging his suitability as an alternative to Daeron and his line eventually coming to power.

It lessens a bit after Aegon's death, but it doesn't go away, alas.

[syndrossi]

Link to comment, which spawned a bunch of musings that fit better in a post.

It's stated that the last dragon died in 153 AC, or about 20 years before mini Caraxes hatches for R!Daemon. Now, it's definitely possible that the maesters aren't completely accurate, but dragons aren't exactly subtle, so I find it pretty believable that they truly were gone by roughly that point. (Like, you can't tell me Daeron I wouldn't have tried claiming one. That kid would have been all over any past rumors of locations where wild dragons lived. To say nothing of both Aegon III and Aegon IV, and even Daeron II, trying various things to revive the dragons.)

I definitely agree that Morning was pretty much a child/teen by dragon reckoning when she died, and canon gives us no details about how that happened. Silverwing wasn't elderly by any means, but definitely an adult. (It's less clear how old Sheepstealer was, and the Cannibal has all kinds of rumors about how old he was.)

The fun thing about the ASOIF'verse is that there is no canonical explanation for why they seemed to die out at this point, which means it's open to anyone's interpretation as to why! Your turn-to-stone headcanon is as valid as anyone else's!

My own personal Resonant lore/canon (which I've shared bits of in the past, I think) is the following.

Dragons and magic are intertwined. Dragons are a source of magic, and dragons require magic to hatch/thrive. That can sound a bit chicken-and-egg, but it doesn't mean they're the only source of magic!

There seems to be some connection with volcanic regions (aka the Valyrian peninsula, and the Valyrians choosing Dragonstone as an outpost in Westeros). I could see early sorcery practiced by the early Valyrian sheep herders (sourced by blood + latent magic in the Fourteen Flames) attracting the wild dragons there, and eventually the first dragonriders came to be.

From there, I tend to view the dragon-dragonrider-sorcerer connection as symbiotic. The bond between dragon and dragonrider "unlocks" the latent magic in dragons for use by Valyrian sorcerers, with blood an additional component. Said use of sorcery further spurs dragon growth/birth rates. (There is a certain child's tale in the book that Daemon and the boys are reading in Resonant that we'll get to eventually that teaches this a bit.)

In Resonant, Valyria's Doom was a bit like a giant explosion with a slowly-decaying nuclear fallout. All the magic sourced in the peninsula by its Fourteen Flames and ranks of sorcerers and hundreds of dragons, was almost completely wiped out in an instant. But a bit like the Distaster at Summerhall in Resonant canon, the sheer force of that event led to a huge, temporary "spike" in magic globally for a period of time, that has slowly waned in the years since. It's why Balerion and his contemporaries (Vhagar, Meraxes) grew so large relative to their later peers, and why there was a seeming increase in dragon births all the way over in Dragonstone in the 100-120 years after.

At that point, there were enough dragons to sustain their own need for magic, so we had a period of stability (Jaehaerys's reign into Viserys's) where dragons seemed to be of a pretty standard size. Caraxes and Meleys appear to be pretty common for the era as far as size goes, and we have no reason to think that Vermax, Arrax, etc wouldn't have been similar in size had they lived to adulthood. I do think that the lack of "natural" volcanic power/magic meant dragons who were born on or spent time on Dragonstone tended to fare a bit better in terms of growth, etc.

Then the Dance happens and all these dragons are wiped out, almost all at once, this time with no great cataclysmic magic "event" associated with it, which means all that magic just...dies with them. Subsequent dragons who live or are born are essentially starved of something they need. Aka there's a point, population-wise, where without external factors like an influx of magic, dragons can no longer self-sustain and we reach that point after the Dance. A mix of backlash by the smallfolk against the remaining wild dragons (killing them, due to losses suffered during the Dance) and lack of magic leads to the remaining ones dying out by the Unworthy Era.

It's why the warlocks in Unworthy Era are (as theorized by @textbookchoices!) weaker than in Resonant, though stronger than in the original canon. They're both further from the Doom event and lacking the magic sourced by dragons existing in the world. Warlocks (in general, not our special candle flavor of warlocks) are even weaker by AGOT times; they're mostly charlatans at this point.

This doesn't universally apply to "divine" or "nature" sourced magic that we see in the Red Priest(esses) and in the north, FWIW, though I also buy that it's not until we see signs of magic "waking up" in AGOT, culminating in Dany's dragons being born, that those powers also increase.

Summerhall, meanwhile, is a significant magical event, if not anywhere close to on the level of the Doom. There's also an added magical element related to how Jon and Rhaegar, and Daemon in Unworthy Era AU, were ripped from their timelines (plus inherent PTWP latent magic) that play into Jon, Rhaegar, and R!Daemon in Unworthy Era themselves serving as magic sources (portable batteries, you might even say!) for their dragons, which is why Caraxes is able to grow and thrive. That is actually sort of why I don't have other dragon eggs hatching after Daemon's arrival; it's not quite enough to sustain other dragons, but once Jon and Rhaegar arrive later, along with their dragons, it's enough kindling to restart the fire.

[syndrossi]

I wonder if Unworthy Era Daemon ever reflects, at the end of the day, that this is indeed all his circus (House) and these are, alas, all his monkeys (descendants).

[syndrossi]

Wait, I just had a horrible idea. Aegon's whole "R!Daemon was switched for a son of his, due to Myriah having a stillbirth/sickly baby who died" narrative could be twisted to be the swap of Naerys's stillbirth of Daenerys's twin brother, given how close they are in age. (Daemon is born at the very end of 171, Daenerys was born in 172, which could be as early or as late as I make it.)

So now you have Aegon parading R!Daemon and Daenerys around all the time, wink-winking about them being true twins, in front of poor Naerys who a) nearly died and suffered near death for a long while and b) actually lost her son. And yet it's so tempting to believe Aegon sometimes, because it would mean that her other baby is alive. (Plus she was so out of it with fever etc, especially in the days after, that she might not even wholly remember the birth of her children.)

Doesn't matter how many maesters/etc swear otherwise, a juicy switched-at-birth Dornish conspiracy reigns supreme in the hearts of the court.

And of course Daemon doesn't want to hurt Naerys, so she's the one person he doesn't dispute when she treats him like he's her own sometimes.

And! Viserys sent Aegon away to fuck off to Braavos on a "diplomatic mission", IIRC, sometime in 172 so that Naerys could recover without the risk of him getting her killed in another perilous childbirth so soon after the last. Which lines up pretty nicely with Caraxes's hatchling: Aegon is presenting as a threat to both Naerys and Daemon, so it's even more urgent that Viserys sends him away for a time. Which Aegon naturally points to when he returns to spread his rumor as his father trying to "silence" him on the matter of the swapped children.

[syndrossi]

Hmmm, but which between Daeron and Myriah go to Runestone? If Daeron goes, aka he doesn't accompany the royal progress to their next planned stop, then the entire thing starts off with the wrong impression (aka Daeron can't control his own children, how can he be a strong king when the day comes?). Whereas it's less eyebrow-raising if Myriah isn't there, and there's a plausible cover story of she and her eldest sons taking a brief detour before rejoining the progress.

There is also the very real risk of neither boy being there when one of them arrives because they do as Baelor promised and head back to Gulltown ASAP, which makes the entire trip a waste.

Alas, if only Aemon were with the royal company. They could just send him to drag their sorry sons back!

[daemon-is-perfectly-unhinged]

Jon: Alright. Hightower’s smart, but we can be smarter. Right, Rhaegar?

Rhaegar: . . .

Jon: Can you please stop looking so stressed?

Rhaegar, who hasn't blinked in 3 hours: I'm not stressed.

[daemon-is-perfectly-unhinged]

Rhaegar: All right, people, let's do this thing. Go, Team Dragons!

Aemond: But I thought we agreed to go by the name Team Super Dragon Fire.

Aegon: As I recall, it was Sunfyre Squadron.

Helaena: I voted for Team Dreamfyre.

Rhaegar: Alright, alright, alright! From henceforth, we shall be known as Team Sun-and-Dream-Super-Dragon’s-Fire-Squadron.

[syndrossi]

I imagine that B!Daemon has twins; he names them, just like in the canon, Aegon and Aemon, and R!Damon is furious because 1) once again, the perfect name ‘Aemon’ has been stolen from his son, and 2) he really likes the name ‘Aegon’ too – it’s on his list of names for his children. So when his twins are due to be born soon, he’ll have to name them Baelon and Rhaegar (rather than the perfect pair, Baelon and Aemon).

See, I feel like he has an attachment to their original names (well...in Jon's case, he has an attachment the name he would give Jon, aka Baelon), so it's not a huge deal when B!Daemon uses more traditional names.

If B!Daemon really wanted to troll R!Daemon, he'd steal the name Rhaegar at least, since I'm sure those names make it around eventually as important to him / related to his "dragon dreams."

R!Daemon might be a little annoyed about Aemon being used, granted. OTOH, his counterpart in this world clearly had no issue naming his kid Aegon despite Viserys having used it already.

Plus, "Baelon" seems like an homage to Baelor and Rhaegar could be thought to be named for Rhaegel (though it probably annoys Aerys that he seems to have been skipped over).

[syndrossi]

Is there a way for Baelor to survive as Maekar is losing in a way the right hand position for Baelor to Daemon and it was a terrible terrible accident that affected him for the rest of his life due to accidentally killing his favourite brother and it would be lovely even if their relationship will never be the same as in canon Maekar has less guilt pushing him down and still gets his favourite older brother to talk to.

Would Maekar even get Summerhall or be the Anvil, he got both in canon due to be the only other son capable of helping against the Blackfyres and Daemon has so much more experience. At least maybe everyone gets married and has children later as Daemon knows how young Sixteen is and was forcibly married off at Sixteen himself already

I mean, there's a butterfly flapping its wings, and then there's Unworthy Era AU, where you have DRAGONS flapping their wings everywhere. 😂 I think it's safe to say that nothing plays out nearly the same. Which doesn't mean Baelor isn't in peril, or that we never meet Dunk, or that there aren't tourneys!

And yeah, given that Maekar got Summerhall because both Aerys and Rhaegel passed on it, that means Daemon gets first dibs as the second son, and I'm sure he's grabby-hands at the prospect of his very own holdfast.

[syndrossi]

5 to 6 parts for phantoms, and here I am coming to ask for more.

Since I just got the thought, since they are in the Vale, maybe they can find Sheepstealer’s lair in the mountains of the moons. Maybe finding a living dragon for Baelor, or maybe some bones and eggs if not.

Even if Sheepstealers dead (old age, waning magic, or some kind of wound from the war), Netty could still be alive, and I am interested in what kind of interaction she would have with the boys since she is getting see Caraxes reborn suddenly flying over and getting flashbacks.

For her character, I honestly have two separate very contrasting headcanons about her character and how that connects to Daemon. 1, is that evil evil Daemon was just praying on this teenager, which plays into the mistress narrative, that I personally don’t much subscribe to.

Or that Daemon, kinda not willing to believe that ANYONE could just naturally form a bond with a dragon like Netty did, just kinda assumed like the maesters do that she was a bastard. And since he just so happened to have frequented Driftmark and the Stepstones during the vague era Netty was born, he assumes that she is HIS daughter. Which subscribes to the Daemon kinda adopts Netty narrative. With a sub theory of this being that Netty is actually his daughter, even if that kinda takes away from the whole normal people can bond with dragons if they put work in it and don’t get roasted in the first 5 seconds.

And since F&B is kinda biased from the maesters/mushroom who just kinda just liked spreading rumors, everybody’s headcanon can be true depending on how much you like Daemon as a character.

Anyway, would love to see Sheepstealer or Netty, either or really. But it would so cool to have Carxes derail their flight to the Gates of Moon, since I assume that’s where going next???, and he just kinda takes them to small village with confused vale people and knights, and they find old Netty living there, and Carxes remembers the smell of her or something. Idk, dragon super magic senses or precognition.

Let's see, Nettle would be about 72 at this point if she's still around. I'm assuming Sheepstealer is long dead, because it would be a big deal if an adult dragon were still around!

Haven't made up my mind on Nettles in Resonant yet, btw! She definitely exists, but the timing isn't great by Resonant's timeline for Daemon to have been her father. 107, aka when the twins are conceived, is after Daemon is banished to the Runestone in late 106 for "Heir for a Day," and then he's in the Stepstones until 110, at which point he returns to King's Landing to present Viserys with his Stepstones crown. After a few months, he's banished again for the Maidenhead Crisis, and spends an even briefer time at Runestone (actually, it's wild to think that the twins passed through Runestone only a few months before after Elys and Corwyn died of Spring Fever) before returning to the Stepstones.

Now, he does make visits to Dragonstone and Driftmark over the course of the war, (he also makes brief stops near Tarth) so it's possible he sires Nettles during one of those. Her birthdate in book canon is 113 AC.

I also don't mind the platonic adoption take, since I could see a somewhat war-wearied Daemon, separated from his family and children for so long, feeling a connection with this wild dragonriding teenager.

Anyway, sorry, that was a tangent.

I imagine it would be bittersweet for the elderly Nettles to see a dragon again, especially a familiar one. Like, it wouldn't surprise me if her dragon was hunted down in the waning days of the Dance (or after the Dance) and killed, and there are no accolades for a "common" dragonrider without a dragon--and a woman, no less. I hope she found a place she was happy in to settle and live her life as she wanted, but I expect every dragonrider feels a certain gnawing emptiness when their dragon is gone.

And then here come two princes, born with silver spoons in their mouths, and they have a dragon. I think it's easier to stomach if she's had a fulfilling life.

[syndrossi]

Took dog for hike. Helped dog get foxtails and burrs out of thick golden retriever fur. Made blondies. Bathed dog. Put blondies in fridge so they'll cool faster so I can eat them.

It's 10:30pm but now I can finally chill (and hopefully eat blondies soon).

[syndrossi]

i need to know, Syn, do the twins every show up in Unworthy?? as twins or solo- i just need to know to get a good night’s sleep

i’m lying but we both know that

Yes, Daemon just has to wait actually, you know, have his twins. And he gets them as babies this time, as a consolation prize! Also, the hilarity of two Daemons having twin sons as their firstborn(s). (Someone has already pointed out the initial angst/fear R!Daemon probably feels when B!Daemon has his twins first because what if those are his???)

[syndrossi]

I know it's absolutely not what happened, but it amuses me a lot that to someone like Daeron, it basically seems like when Daemon needs a brother to go along with him on something (Maekar not telling anyone, Baelor going with him to Runestone), he just promises them a dragonride and they immediately agree.