A while back I was asked about my opinion about the Red Wedding 2.0.
First, sorry for the delay, second thanks to catsnark for the link, and third I didn't even know it had a name! lol
Let's see. I hardly ever go into much thinking about certain events like most of the fandom does. Some do catch my attention and I go online to read if someone thinks like me about it, but some others pretty much escape any thought of mine. This is one that I would put in the last category, I have to say.
I did feel there was something behind the Brotherhood's actions at Riverrun, and Freys and Lannisters running Riverrun. I assumed some of that would allow LS to at least get a bit of revenge. But I figured something like some unexpected and unexplainable deaths here and there, a couple killed, but not something in the dimensions of another RW, or organized in an actual wedding. I mean, I didn't connect all the events people seem to say are part of the theory, but when I look back at what I read, it kinda connects and in some way I wanna say "well duh".
Now that I think about, it sounds kinda poetical (damn your evil mind, GRRM! haha).
Honestly, I am expecting a big comeuppance for some characters, but I don't know how those characters are actually gonna get it. I want LS to get her revenge, but not all the Freys were involved in what happened at The Twins. I know she doesn't care for that anyway, but I personally would like if some "nice" Freys (Roslin) don't end up dead for it (but not all Freys can be killed, they are too many!), and she's able to let it go, after she gets some blood in return to what happened to her and Robb. If not I think her demise is near too. Which would be no problem (since her "task" would be completed), as long as she gets that revenge before, and as long the Arya killing LS theory doesn't take place (NO, PLEASE, NO!).
Maybe she'll just "die" when she sees she has gotten revenge.
I was thinking that, since some people have picked up on the details of an event like a second RW, -if the theory actually ends up being true-, GRRM might troll that too. He might make them fail, and the Brotherhood might end up losing their heads. Revenge so close, yet so far.
I'm a bit concerned about Edmure though. He's a Lannister prisoner, and if this takes place, maybe they won't mind killing him out of spite.
Also not sure how Brienne and Jaime have part in this. I've read the ideas or theories about it, but it just doesn't fully fit for me. It can easily happen without them, or fail because of them (mostly for Brienne and her ideals).
Anyway, that's all I got on it.
Thanks for your question, and sorry again for the delay.
tylandlannister said: If she had been exactly the same when she came back, I could’ve agreed. But really, she is just a smoldering shell of what she was. It isn’t Catelyn anymore.
kingeomer2 said: I think the belief is that her resurrection cheapens (or lessens) the impact of the Red Wedding. I don’t agree with that, but I think that’s what the detractors say.
I think I can see where they are coming from, but I disagree.
catsnark said: from what I’ve read; many people things LS devianates so much from Cat and “does things she would never do” and kind of her resurrection sort of cheappens her character I think?
Really? Oh wow, I disagree. I think of her as a second side of Catelyn. Not a real continuance of her, but a different side of her. Idk, personally I think that after all she's been through, and what was done to her family and her, there was no other way to react to it. I get why she becomes LS. I understand, especially when she's no longer herself. She's surely is different, but either way, I wouldn't think that cheapens her death.
Same! That was THE jaw-dropping moment from that book for me (that and Lysa flying)!. Such an amazing way of closing the book. Just when you think nothing else can happen, that the story is coming to an end, BOOM!
I do like LS. I guess she's really different, and I don't necessarily consider her as a continuance of Catelyn, so I don't like her as much as I like Cat. But I do like her, although her "task" has deviated.
Cheapens her death? How?! I've never read anything of the sort. Submit some links, or maybe send another anon explaining what they say/what you mean.
So, first and foremost, like I said in another ask about this topic, my "suggestions" are simply a way to reconcile what they've been doing on the show, with what was missing, let's say. It was a way to fit in the little spare time they had, a detail that would have moved forward the story and would have left a cliffhanger interesting enough to expect for the following season. In no way it was meant to rewrite the episode, or to change it in such drastic ways.
For readers, my suggestion, gave them a starting point of what they already know it's going to happen, but interesting enough to ask yourself how they are going to do it; for non readers, it gave them a clue, that if they have been following the show, they could have easily picked up, and would have raised a lot of questions, and intrigues, which basically it's the idea of how a cliffhanger should work. Or maybe not, I wasn't looking for a "omg I know what's this supposed to mean" from non readers. I was just expecting them to understand that the wolf's howl is significant.
If I watch a show, and don't know the source material, then I don't need to have conclusive ideas of what's going to happen next season, or in next episode.
If you haven't read the books, then everything feels like you don't know what it's going to happen. And that's exactly how you are supposed to feel.
Anyway, after reading your ask, I decided to put your theory to the test:
I have 3 friends, non readers, who watch the show. One a regular watcher (RegularWatcher), who knows spoilers from things that deviate from the books, but never wikis himself ahead. The other one that is not a regular watcher (MarathonWatcher), but watched this season live, let's say, cause the others she marathoned. And the last, her bf, who watches the show (LooseWatcher), but it's not aware of much, and is usually the one that needs an explanation for everything (srsly!).
About your suggestion, or the one from the books, they could have easily worked, but you need to cut it somewhere to make a cliffhanger. If they cut where Dondarrion is kneeling in front of the corpse, it kinda feels like the scene was chopped off, like the editing was wrong, and it will kinda feel something else was missing, or maybe left us with a face of "Annnnddd? That's the ending?" in our faces. Also it would have felt handed to the readers.
Also what about screen time? There wasn't much screen time left to actually develop that much. As it is the episode had pacing issues, feeling rushed and choppy at times. So, hmm, there wasn't enough time for all of that.
And mainly even though I would have liked to see the books version, I personally didn't need the whole thing. I didn't need to see LS, I didn't need to see Nymeria, I didn't need to see Dondarrion, I just needed a simple detail that could assure me LS is happening on the show, a little detail able to function as a good cliffhanger, not the entire development of the story. And pushing just the kiss and her return to season 4, would have made the story lose its impact, and feel cut off. It would have felt forced, handed, and rushed, if it would have been that way.
(Sure thing, there are other ways to do it of course, just discussing mine and yours here, or the books).
The howl was supposed to represent, for the readers, Nym and her pack, and the hint something was about to happen, for non readers. It didn't have to show everything, it was supposed to be a hint, fitted in the show, in the episode, as it was, and in a way that suited the chronology. Cause fucked up or not as it may be for some events, for some others there's need for a certain development. She can't be thrown in the river, and be rescued at the same time.
The RW aftermath as shown in the show, happens moments, hours and less than a day later, so the 3 days she's supposed to spend in the water, rotting, were not there, so, it couldn't have worked. My idea was to convey something is going to happen but not immediately, she needed to stay in the water for a day or two, or actually three. Now, I thought of that, because having shown nothing of her, and then pushing it back to season 4, will screw up majorly with the chronology, and some details. But the show has done it before, so they will screw up again on those terms.
Nymeria is important, but this season barely had anything on the direwolves so, I was just going with the flow.
Again, the wolf's appearance would have been too soon, LS needs to actually be a "corpse" first.
And for what I've seen, I'm not sure they are going to use Nym and Arya's warg for this. Since they didn't use it for Robb, I'm a bit scared they won't use it for Arya either. And also, since they haven't even given a proper "comeback" to the wolf in the story, for non readers, it might look a bit confusing. Imo, they could tell the story of how the wolf became the leader of the pack, and how they hunt and everything, even from the point of view of simple farmer from the surroundings, as they see the wolves hunting around in their lands, and how people are scared of them. In that way, they can remember the non readers about the lost wolf, and bring her back.
This show needs to support everything they display, and they just don't provide. Everything is loose, and in the surface, not attached or glued as a chronological and logical construction, but a bunch of moments, names and situations that are spread around, and that hardly connect one with the other.
Thank you! You are too kind. Sorry for the delay, but I really wanted to put this to the test, and the test was hilarious, so. lol. Thanks!
