#active or passive

[wewerealwaysthere]

[dahniwitchoflight]

I think what’s also super interesting here as well is the design choice to have Aradia, a Time player, covered in these little Cheruby Spacey Green Spirals that shows just how much she is vibing with Alt!Calliope here over Dave

and again, earlier we had another narrative tell of something that used to connect two space players now instead connecting two now apparently passive players, when Alt!Calliope talked about the nature of one looking at the grander scheme of things and siting back and observing details

even in the panel designed, they are connected and mirrored against eachother, directly being contrasted and compared, compared to Dave caught in the middle, who is presumably stuck outside of the mutual vibing these two are caught in

all of this deeply suggests that Aradia and Calliope are sharing in some deeper connection together with eachother that Dave just isn’t intune with

but we knew already that Creation has always been Green associated, so this isn’t necessarily saying anything about Activity or Passivity, its just the spirals that really get me, those are very particularly Muse-y green spirals, and Muse’s biggest influencing factor and biggest key point is that passivity over everything else

A time player with green symbols

a space player with red ones

a creator and a muse, already specially connected and close in function

definitely at least just a little chuckle about a similar wavelength or even just being friends, but it goes deeper in either’s singular arcs as well

but somehow, if i were to picture Kanaya in this scene and conversation, she’d be on Dave’s side, rolling her eyes, not Aradia or Calliope’s smug grins (Where Rose might also be if she were here)

[dahniwitchoflight]

Passive Maid Class!?

So something fun, one small little tidbit in here that I want to latch onto, I will react to the full chapter later just wanna start discussion on this now

This chapter seems to be fully leaning into the idea that the Maid is a passive class! Both by directly comparing Aradia’s versus Dave’s behaviors as being very different classes of the same aspect in contradiction

“Their rapport reflects a unique combination of their matching aspects but greatly differing classes. One a passive but powerful servant to time, the other wielding the aspect like a honed blade.”

that quote in particular p;us how they seem to be laying it on thick the contradiction between Dave being more impatient and straight to the point, while both Alt!Calliope and Aradia slowly dance around it and like to drag it out more. 

Dave even at one point calls her Rose Jr, because her passive aggressive behavior of avoiding the point in their discussion while dancing around emotional topics reminds him of the other

AND by showing a couple glimpses of how Aradia’s mentality is in alignment with Alt!Calliope’s passive behavior as a Muse!

“DAVEBOT: perfect example your tolerance for whatever is going on with

DAVEBOT: all this

ARADIA: i think she looks quite lovely covered in the viscera of the all-powerful enemy she consumed

ARADIA: floating lifelessly in our periphery

ARADIA: observing our every action and noting its relevance :)

DAVEBOT: uh huh thats what i mean”

and then there’s Alt!Calliope’s quote here, also making that connection between her and Aradia:

“ it is not unusual for those whose primary concern is The Grander Scheme to have a passing curiosity about the insignificant. “

Now, usually those who have a primary concern with the grander scheme of things rather than the immediate details was connected as something that Alt!Calliope and Jade before had something in common, and was very much framed as a Space thing

but here, in the context of this passive space player, and these apparently Active and Passive Time players, it’s being shared as something that connects the two apparently passive players together, because sitting back and having a passive curiosity of the insignificant is basically all Aradia has ever done as a God Tier

And this is actually very interesting, but when it comes to the creation classes, I’ve never once faltered that Maid and Sylph were a pair together under the facet of Creation, but, when it comes to which one was active and which was passive, there have always been really good arguments for both, but I had always felt Active Maid tipped the scales passed Passive Sylph, but here, this is really big, this is very directly leaning on Passive Maid very strongly, a lot stronger than I figured they ever would to be honest

This is legitimately getting me to contemplate yes actually for Passive Maid and Active Sylph, which is, oddly enough, one of the more minor changes overall to the system I had in place before, and the one spot that was actually the most flexible in the pattern I figured I had figured out

I can’t believe I’m getting Delicious Spicy New Classpect Discussion Tidbits in the year of our lord 2020!!

This might just be the spark of inspiration I need to really do that re-write of all my old material

[dahniwitchoflight]

Struggle and Growth Patterns of the Classes in Homestuck

This came from person asking me what I considered to be the personal struggle of growth for Mages and Seers, since compared to the other classes, their function, Understanding, is non physical in nature compared to the other classes

And the struggles I have for them right now are more environmental rather than internal like the others. That’s very true, and also I haven't really re-looked at those classes in quite a while, more than a few years in fact.

It’s also not incorrect to say Seer/Mage are kind of a blindspot for me, being a Change class, it would be the thing I inherently understand the least, so I should put a bit more thought into it than the others and really hash it out

So! I decided to see if I could find an overall pattern between the supposed struggles of each class (Just the Main 12 tho, not Lord/Muse, didn't wanna over muddle differing factors yet) and I'm actually pretty pleased with what I got:

SO:

Actives in general, don’t struggle with using the flashy powers themselves, they struggle with situations where their power isn't the solution to their current problem OR finding out where their power is actually meant to be used.

Princes aren’t bad at destruction, they’re bad at not getting caught up in their own destruction/bad at reeling it in/directing its flow exactly where its needed, bad at being too destructive even or too heavy handed/scorched earth policy

Witches aren’t bad at change, they struggle with knowing when and where and why something should change at all, it's a very on the nose direct moral struggle

Knights aren’t bad at applying their powers, they’re very skilled, they’re just bad at recognizing when their skill isn’t the solution for their current problem (so they frantically keep trying the same thing over n over again and question why they haven’t found the solution yet)

Thieves arent bad at stealing, but they do struggle with situations where they need to give instead of take, sharing is caring

Maids arent bad at creating, but they do struggle with the internal decision of what they want to create/what kind of person to shape themselves into and perhaps struggle to take that first step at all

So in general, Actives have all the skills and tools at their disposal, their direct struggles in the exact things they want to do with their chosen skillsets and why and when and where etc

All of the Talent, none of the Motivation.

THEN:

Passives in general, DO struggle with the powers themselves at first and the ability to use them, and their growth is about perfecting that chosen skillset and about finding confidence in that skillset to use it to the greatest ability.

Bards struggle in avoidance of their power, their aspect overwhelms them at first, until they’ve ridden the wave, got a handle on things, and now they can destroy with a skilled and subtle confident finesse

Heirs struggle with change, they're comfortable, complacent, they like things to stay where they are, and they need to learn how to move on and not get stuck in a rut, to deal with change, and again, learn to ride the wave and be comfortable and use it, and then their skill with it grows.

Pages I don’t think i even need to say it, do I? They start out at point 0 completely inept in their powers, but through stubborn determination and constant practice they become masters of their craft

Rogues aren’t confident in their powers, or their ability to BE confident and take something by the horns, so they end up passing the buck over to someone they believe is more capable, (even if they’re not) So their journey is about becoming confident, that they are capable enough to handle what lemons life gives them

Sylphs also can struggle with their skills of creation, even though they tend to be very scrutinous of their chosen aspects. They're outwardly confident in their chosen aspects, will talk at length about their ideas as if it were gospel, and do have a tinge of thinking they’re clearly the person for the job when it comes to creative endeavors, but that confidence can blind them to where their skills actually fail or aren’t up to par. Aranea is the great example there. But also Kanaya wasn’t immune to overlooking concerns and failing in areas as well. But once they have been proven wrong, or, if they make sure to keep an eye out for their own failings and work on them, thats when their skills are truly honed.

So in general, Passives know exactly what they want to do with their chosen skills, and might even firmly believe they’re already at the necessary skill level to achieve their goals, but lack the actual level of skill necessary to achieve those goals

All of the Motivation, None of the Talent.

FINALLY:

What does the above imply for Mage and Seer?

Well, going by the pattern:

Active Knowledge Classes aren’t bad at knowing things, in fact, they’re really frigging good at it. So their challenge is figuring out where their knowledge... isn’t actually useful. So instead they struggle with recognizing when they DON’T actually have the answer. When an unknown catches them off guard or when their idea doesn’t work how they think it should. Their struggle is to admit when they might be wrong, when they’re not an expert on everything, and then to pass the buck to someone who DOES actually know.

case in point, Sollux was great and seemed to have all of the answers... up into the point where they finally reached their Doomed point that he predicted, after that, he struggled with knowing whats to come next and kinda gave up on trying to know at all. Since the answer just wasn’t immediately obvious to him. 

Meulin would similarly be at a loss if someone were have a different personality than the one she assumes that they have. And this explains why she is so trusting of Kurloz, despite what he does to her, because she completely cant imagine him being like that, that info is something entirely off her radar. she isn’t wary of who Kurloz is because she KNOWS who Kurloz is, she’s so intimate and close to him, also, she knows who everyone is, duh (in her own mind)

Mages: Good at being Correct, Bad at being Incorrect.

Passive Knowledge Classes then struggle to understand, to learn, to know, but they are motivated by an endless curiosity. They WANT to know, or.. at least come off as if they DO know. A point 0 Seer might actually not be all that knowledgeable about something (!), but they struggle hard with admitting that they’re actually ignorant. So, they bluff. They use Pseudo-Knowledge like objects of divination, or secretly ask questions of authority figures for the answer, or even just straight up bluff and lie their way through things they don’t know to supplement this lack of real solid knowledge, like crutches, and may be at a loss if those crutches are taken away. So their struggle is to become knowledgeable in their own right, which involves removing those crutches, to stop bluffing, stop secretly relying on something else and admit when they need to really learn it instead.

case in point: Rose and Terezi are EXTREMELY good bluffers. Kankri is also that (and just straight up an idiot about a lot of stuff). And all three are way too proud to admit when they don’t actually know something (at least in the beginning). They have the poker faces of a champ. And were extremely good at using what they knew of their aspect powers, to supplement knowledge that they didn’t know themselves. This has actually become much clearer now that we see Rose kinda removed from her main crutches, no more authority like doc scratch or skaia or horrorterrors to ask she is the adult now, no more light aspect seeing the most fortunate path for her. Now shes gotta know stuff on her own by herself, and figure things out on her own and shes doing really good! Terezi’s also struggled immensely with really knowing if she made the right choices at times, and you could consider her coin flip habit both a bluff and a crutch that she was very good at using

Because, if you split the timeline so that every possible answer to your question occurs, one of them has to be the right one, doesn’t it? And shes also doing much better nowadays too. Kankri did not unfortunately lol

Seers: Good at being Incorrect, Bad at being Correct.

TL;DR The thing with Mages and Seers is that your actually just a bunch of dumbdumbs and you don’t know it

(I kid, you guys are smart at smart things, but your dumb at dumb things too lol)

[dahniwitchoflight]

Lord and Muse class thoughts

So

Had a thought about the powers of the Lord and Muse classes

that stemmed from the new idea that the functions of the classes themselves are on a spectrum of sorts, and not just their activity or passivity

So every function exists on some sort of Spectrum

Manipulation, Creation, Destruction, Application, Relocation and Information

since it was noted that whatever a Muse’s function is, it’s closer on the spectrum to a Witch’s (Manipulation) than it is to a Sylph’s (Creation)

And that got me thinking about what would the ends of the spectrum even be?

And at first I assumed Creation/Destruction as the most likely candidates

But I had to give a thought to, what if it was the Lord and Muse’s functions? Since the Lord and Muse are also the bookends of the activity spectrum, wouldn’t it make sense as Master classes that they’d be the bookends here as well?

Which got me thinking, what if the Master classes don’t have a shared function after all?

I’d had vague theories throughout that what separated the master classes apart from the rest so far, was that they were both an activity pair (Active Lord/Passive Muse) AND an function pair at the same time through the shared verb of “Definition” since that was something distinct I could separate from the rest of the 6 regular functions

but the I had this thought, what if it was both that the Master classes were partnered and were not partnered sort of at the same time?

Like, for instance, Muse’s function can only be expressed in a Passive way, because once you express is in an Active Way, it’s no longer a Muse’s function, but a Lord’s

And then it hit me: Inspire and Command

To Inspire someone is to passively bring them under your will and get them to do what you want, it’s not an active command, since the person can choose to ignore the inspiration, but it is highly suggestive and greatly powerful, and just like the rest of the passive powers, it requires an understanding and working with what a person would already choose to do in character for them anyway, requires a greater understanding but comes with less overwriting control

but to Actively bring someone under your will is to Command them, it’s no longer just an inspiration, it’s no longer something you can ignore or choose, it’s a Command. And for a command it doesn’t matter what the person is like, what their will is like or whether the person would realistically choose to do on their own because a forcible command overwrites all of that. 

and that’s, exactly what Muses and Lords DO. not in Homestuck I mean but like, just the base definitions of the words. 

They’re both people who bend other’s to their will, and that’s why Muse and Lord are special but also aren’t paired with another 2 pairs of classes AND that’s how they can be the bookends of both the activity and the functions spectrum

So they DO have the same function in the sense that both of their words are defined as the ability to bend another to their will and being the active and passive counterparts to it, but it also leaves no room for any extra two master classes despite the seperate functions, because of the natural way they themselves get inverted like that

Muse is the Most passive along the spectrum to Lord’s most Active

Muse’s function Inspire is at one end of the function spectrum, versus the Lord’s function Command being at another

So now with that thought, I wonder what the spectrum of functions looks like?

From what I can tell, Inspire and Manipulation so seem very close, and so Command and Information must also be close, and this to me makes sense since Information is often used as bargaining tool that forces people to do things, knowledge is power after all

Creation and Destruction seem the two most likely to be in center, since they feel the most removed from the concepts of Inspire/Command, but Creation still hinges on Inspire’s side, Destruction with Command’s

The finally Application and Relocation, Application is all about using the objects natural function to do what it do normally, so that sounds more Inspiring than Commanding, versus Application being a forcible moving of an object to wherever the user please, so that sounds more Commanding

so if I had to place things in a tentative spectrum:

Inspiration > Manipulation > Application > Creation <> Destruction < Relocation < Information < Command

and then to make everything fit my pedantic abolsutely meaningless pattern, we can change Command to Instruction lol which is nice because then it also starts with I just like Inspiration

Inspiration > Manipulation > Application > Creation <> Destruction < Relocation < Information < Instruction

Which also gives the Lord some leeway to yknow, not be evil, since in Homestuck the idea of bending another’s will to your own without regard for what they want is pretty evil idea, so a command seems inherently a bit too... much?

An Instruction however also contains that same amount of authority without being quite as forceful upfront as a command, but can be if desired

Mostly I just don’t wanna throw all Lords under the bus just because Caliborn exists lol buts it like how Manipulate/Change is the same thing for Homestucks’s purposes, the exact word used doesn’t matter, it’s the intended meaning

in which case the intended meaning for Muse and Lord is:

Muse Class:  Invites Inspiration of (Aspect) or one who Invites Inspiration through (Aspect)

Lord Class: Commands (Aspect) and/or Commands with (Aspect)

writing it like this it’s really easy to see how their couldn’t be a passive Lord function or an Active Muse function

but

the main idea is still, whatever you call them, they are doing the same thing, Bending things to their Will

and the most accurate way to write out their full powers would be as follows:

Muse Class: Invites (Aspect) to Bend to their Will, or one who invites Will Bending through their (Aspect) 

Lord Class: Bends (Aspect) to their will, or Will Bends with (Aspect)

I kinda wish their was a concise verb that means “Will Bending” though that’d be perfect

but the closest thing is the definition of the, which again splits the idea into two very Lord or Musey words?:

“Bend Someone to your Will: To use your Power or Influence to make someone do what you want them to do”

Power Command Authority Instruction: these are a Lord’s Powers. 

Influence Inspiration Trust Alliance: these are a Muse’s Powers.

(THOUGH. I supposed you can take the same scale and make it so the Lord/Muse are at the center of it in a single function, with Creation and Destruction as the bookends instead, in which case the spectrum would look like:

Creation > Application > Manipulation > Inspire/Define/Command < Information < Relocation < Destruction)

It essentially kind of Doesn’t Matter? But I do firmly believe now that whatever it’s called, the powers of the Lord or Muse are to bend things related to their Aspects to their own wills

Maybe it was Lord English himself who invented the whole idea of the Commands in Homestuck in general? That would be a pretty literal interpretation of his powers, and than once he was done with them he just didn’t bother cleaning it up/let the tech fall into other people’s hands

I mean, they are things that literally exist only to try and bend another person’s will to whatever it is you write in them

and is not the idea of bending a word to you will the act or redefining it? So I guess this doesn’t really change my ideas about Lord and Muse, but it did help me clear them up

Inspiration/Definition/Instruction whatever, what matters is that the thing is doing what you want it to do

[dahniwitchoflight]

Oh I will say one thing this update sort of implicitly de-confirms though

Witch and Sylph cannot be an active and passive pair together

(not that I thought they were in the first place, but it’s nice to have things solidly eliminated, because it’s makes the correct choice even that much clearer)

Because if they were a pair with similar powers, then Calliope could NOT say that her powers as a Muse so closely aligned with one but not the other

And we know she can’t be talking about the active or passive spectrum because Witch has already been confirmed by Andrew himself as being highly active in a separate outside source and Muse was confirmed by Callie herself as being highly passive in nature inside the comic

So, That just packs it in harder for Maid/Sylph and Witch/Heir!

[dahniwitchoflight]

I kind of wanna make a little text flowchart of my thoughts for how I came to the basic conclusion of the Homestuck classes that I got

so here you go lol if you were curious about my rough train of thought surrounding things

basically, start with some lovely canon statements:

-Prince/+Bard are Male Exclusive Destruction Classes

-Thief/+Rogue are Female Inclined Stealing Classes (Broadly, Relocation)

Witch is Active, Seer is Passive, Lord is Male/Most Active, Muse is Female/Most Passive

"The most active class out of the 12 standard classes is female, the two most passive ones are both male."

“The active passive scale is tinted slightly male active leaning and slightly female passive leaning”

those last two together I basically interpret to mean that out of the 12 standard classes, there is an equal amount of Male associated or Female associated classes on both the active and passive sides, Lord and Muse having no equivalents besides each other, are the ones to tip the scales onto each side

then, make some conclusions based off of that interpretation

Homestuck has a lot of equal and equivalent pair systems where everything has an equal and opposite balancing factor, it’s a major theme, Creation/Destruction, Active/Passive, Green/Red, Cherubs, Benevolence/Malevolence, Black/White, the Taoist themes of YinYang like duality in general permeates throughout, especially in the classpect system

so two canon Male Exclusive Destruction classes means two Female Exclusive Creation classes must exist, as the most obvious conclusion, and just because of the active passive gender balancing factor

of the following classes left: Witch, Heir, Knight, Page, Maid, Sylph, Mage, Seer

the only ones that even can be Female Exclusive are Witch, Maid and Sylph

and as they also have to be a pair associated with Creation to match Prince/Bard, the only viable options are Maid and Sylph, as both classes associated with healing and creation, Witch being otherwise associated with Change and Manipulation (and I personally see Maid as Active versus Sylph passive, but it doesn’t matter beyond this) 

so -Maid/+Sylph

next, having two canon Female leaning classes in a pair must mean the existence of two Male leaning classes also in a pair, as well because of the active passive gender balancing factor

of the following classes left: Witch, Heir, Knight, Page, Mage, Seer

 Witch can’t (no male examples), Mage and Seer are neutral in role and name and have 1 male 1 female each so it’s unlikely

so that leaves Heir, Knight and Page

and again, like Thief/Rogue, they must be a pair of male leaning classes

Knight/Page are again the obvious pick as the Horse Classes, their defining shared trait, if at least nothing else can be agreed upon, is Horse. 

and I personally see it as -Knight/+Page, but before we make that assumption, let’s remember that the number of Male and Female Actives and Passives must be Equal in order to match the canon statement

and so far we have:

Active: Prince(M), Thief (F), Witch(F), Creation (F), Horse (M)

Passive: Bard(M), Rogue (F), Seer(?), Creation (F), Horse (M)

leaving Heir(3M and 0F) and Mage(1M and 1F)

now here’s where we come to the first assumption that doesn’t have any specific canon confirmation statement, just the whole comic and introspections we get from reading:

Mage/+Seer are a pair under the knowledge function, a bold assumption I know :p

and since Seer is confirmed Passive, Mage is the Active half, giving the last active space to Mage, and forcibly leaving Heir with no other option except to grab that last 12th Passive space

so we get:

Active: Prince(M), Thief (F), Witch(F), Creation (F), Horse (M), Mage(?)

Passive: Bard(M), Rogue (F), Heir(M), Creation (F), Horse (M),  Seer(?)

now, Witch and Heir have been assigned F and M respectively, on the account of there being no M Witch or F Heir examples, so Witch is either F Exclusive or Leaning, and Heir is either M Exclusive or Leaning to match

as well as both Mage and Seer have 1 example for each gender, so just on example alone they have no gender lean

BUT, again, we know that the amount of Active classes must have an equal amount of male and female associated, same the passive classes must have equal amounts of male and female examples

and so far, we have 3 Active F, and 2 Active M, meaning Mage must lean towards the male side of things in order to equally tip the balance in favor of Male active

same thing for Seer and Female, as currently passive has 3 Male and 2 Female

Active: Prince(M), Thief(F), Witch(F assumed), Creation(F), Horse(M), Mage(M)

Passive: Bard(M), Rogue(F), Heir(M assumed), Creation(F), Horse(M),  Seer(F)

and now we revisit a canon statement again

"The most active class out of the 12 standard classes is female, the two most passive ones are both male."

this is where we get into more nebulous territory of assigning different levels of activity to different classes, because it’s a much more personal interpretation here

BUT I can say, that 2 Most Passive classes are explicitly Male

Bard is obviously one of them

and either Heir, Page or Knight is the Most Male/Passive class

now to go through some information in order to make a decision here

Heirs are inheritors, they often have favorable things fall into their lap or given to them or are led around by others. Then also suggested to be Passive in nature by Hussie when talking about the nature of Prospit attracting Passives like John

Knights are called Warriors, Exploiters, and specifically are a class that leaves the thinking and tactics to other classes, suggesting at least an Action/Fighting focused class. Then also suggested to be Active in nature by Hussie when talking about the nature of Derse attracting Actives like Dave.

Page is never called explicitly Active or Passive, but their one notable trait is “one of the most eventually powerful, but it takes a while and patience to get there” and are commonly read by myself and fandom as Passive

at the very least, I think a distinction can be made that it can’t be the Knight, as it of the three is the most likely to take the active spot

leaving us with this:

Active: Prince(M), Thief(F), Witch(F), Creation(F), Knight(M), Mage(M)

Passive: Bard(M), Rogue(F), Heir(M), Creation(F), Page(M),  Seer(F)

surprisingly though, the one thing I am the most flexible on in terms of Activity is Maid/Sylph, they are definitely a pair, but I think there is some room for argument for whether or not Sylph or Maid is the active one in that pair

both maids and sylphs heal, (themselves and others) both Aradia and Aranea were focused on being the caretakers of the realm, Aradia through death and the dreambubbles, Aranea through her plan to take over the alpha timeline

Boths maids and sylphs too all have connections to enjoying their roles as spectators, but sylphs more so in that regard (both Jane and Porrim were def not content to just sit out and wait) Jane and Porrim together do seem to be more action oriented than say Aranea and Kanaya, but their are exceptions like Kanaya and her chainsaw and Aradia preferring to housekeep the end times

but robo aradia has quite the passive called attitude of complacency during her inversion, whereas living aradia seems much more excited to go do things and watch stuff happen in the bubbles

for me personally, the scale is tipped enough that I can comfortably place Maid as Active and Sylph as Passive

so that’s basically how I got to here:

Active: Prince(M), Thief(F), Witch(F), Maid(F), Knight(M), Mage(M)

Passive: Bard(M), Rogue(F), Heir(M), Sylph(F), Page(M),  Seer(F)

then, as for the scale itself from Most Active to Most Passive

I keep going back to this, keep redoing it over and over, but I always seem to eventually come back to the same interpretation over time, eventually always gravitating back towards it as it always seems like the correct one even when I try to look at things through new angles

Lord: Thief / Prince / Witch / Knight / Maid / Mage -/

/- Page / Sylph / Seer / Rogue / Bard / Heir :Muse

firstly because of the "the most Active class after Lord is female, and the two most Passive classes after Muse are male” also sort of implies that the class after the most active female class is a male class, and the the class after the two most passive male classes is a female class, because if it weren’t hussie would have said something like “the next two active classes are female” or “the last 3 passive classes are male”

meaning Prince had to be where it is, and of Bard/Heir/Page two had to be the most passive, but in working with the numbers, I figured Bard had to at least be that 2nd last passive slot

and I did a lot of thinking of whether or not Page and Heir were in the spots that they were, but considering Page’s nature as “indeterminate activity levels” and Heir’s nature as “quite passive everything pushes them forward/gives them stuff” it felt appropriate to make Page the most active passive class, fitting it’s indeterminate classification, and Heir as most passive, fitting whats known about Heirs

then using Prince/Bard/Heir/Page/Lord/Muse as the pattern keys i tried to figure it out using numerical patterns and what felt right overall

Thief as most active fits, and Rogue as the next passive after Bard also fits, both contributing to a certain pattern

Witch after Prince fitted Heir after Bard, then Maid and Sylph as flipped placements of Prince/Bard seemed to fit both classes natures as being closer to the middle line, then finally Knight Maid Mage feeling like a comfortable mirror of Page Sylph Seer completed the set

so this scale fits to me, but even better, its the only scale I could find where certain numerical patterns all fit together

so in this scale, each inversion pair is 6 Spaces away from eachother exactly like this:

Thief/Page = 6

Prince/Sylph = 6

Witch/Seer = 6

Knight/Rogue = 6

Maid/Bard = 6

Mage/heir = 6

 and each active/passive pair is either 9 or 3 spaces away like this:

Thief/Rogue = 9

Prince/Bard = 9

Witch/Heir = 9

Knight/Page = 3

Maid/Sylph = 3

Mage/Seer = 3

and fittingly, the 3 pairs with 9 all have a clear disparity between which is the active and which was the passive in the pair, and the ones with only 3 spaces between all had a less clear disparity in which one was active or passive in the text as well

so yeah, that was my thought process and this is my final outcome:

Scale:

(Active) Lord: Thief / Prince / Witch / Knight / Maid / Mage -/

/+ Page / Sylph / Seer / Rogue / Bard / Heir :Muse (Passive)

Pairings:

-Lord/+Muse, -Thief/+Rogue, -Prince/+Bard, -Witch/+Heir, -Knight/+Page, -Maid/+Sylph, -Mage/+Seer

Gender Lean/Inclination/Trend:

Male: -Lord, -Prince, -Mage, -Knight and +Page, -Bard, +Heir

Female: +Muse, +Sylph, +Seer, +Rogue and -Thief, -Maid, -Witch

Going through the thought process again certainly helps these things, but I’m so picky about little things, that this time I tried to go back to basics, just figure it out from the few canon statements that we do have and see where it goes, and here I am

[dahniwitchoflight]

You explain how Mages of Light can obfuscate information. Could you please describe how a Mage of Void could reveal the hidden?

that ones a bit more esoteric, but the example my mind comes up with is when people seem to use “convenient” moments to say obvious lies, plead the fifth/be silent, or simply let others fill in the answers for them/make assumptions for them when outright telling the person the truth isn’t an option

that or speaking completely in what seems to be nonsense but actually holds a clever meaning, like riddles and rhymes and things that need to be deciphered but are nearly impossible to do so (excepting only maybe the recipient of the mages intended coded message)

but it all depends on the Mage knowing the other person well enough to know what kind of answer the other person would assume, and not giving an answer/lying for the right things at the right time to the right person

very good in situations where the Mage of Void is being held hostage or something, and must give an important message (like their location/idenity of kidnapper) to the person their kidnapper is making them call, in front of their kidnapper, without letting their kidnapper know the true meaning of their message

Using Void to give Light

another more physical example is the trope where people lose their physical Sight and in return gain “higher” or “6th” sense

Blind Oracles gaining Prophecy, daredevil gaining echolocation etc things like that

their Lack of Vision instead now allows them to See in Unnatural ways