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@dahniwitchoflight
Beyond Canon Upd8
OHHHH its a 10 player session? and it for sure includes the 4 Omega/Earth C kids now!
Spicy! I say 10 because typically Derse and Prospit numbers are aligned, shenanigans and funny business aside and I saw 5 proper Derse towers on Lylac's Derse so
Derse:
Lylac, Vrissy,
???, ???, ??? (Probably 1 more Kid, 1 More Nymph, 1 Satyr?) Prospit: I'm gonna guess Swiss tbh as our other Main character,
???, ???, ???, ??? (2 Kids, 1 Nymph, 1 more Satyr im guessing)
we have Tavros, Harry and "Annie" to place Which likely leaves 2 more each of Nymphs and Satyrs Fascinating Implication here, its either confirmation that Vrissy is NOT just a straight up Vriska Clone, so she has her own unique trollsign OR she has a moon alignment that doesnt line up with her assigned sign sway Because the Serket Sign is a Prospit Moon Sway
So Im banking on actually that it's unlikely that she's a full ancestor of Vriska Prime, considering the differences of Earth C and her real troll sign is unrevealed/something different from the norm
For some reason Tumblr is just Refusing to publish my gigantic response to this question, so since its an anon anyway I'm screenshotting the question and posting the response below. Haven't had to do this shit since the tumblr days of yore lmao
My Response:
The Pairings aren't entirely unrelated to the active passive system, they're deeply ingrained into it still.
all the class common pairs are pairings between an - active class and a + passive class with two very big exceptions:
the MostActive Active Class and the MostPassive Active class are paired, Witch and Sylph
and the MostActive Passive Class and the MostPassive Passive class are paired, Maid and Heir
WitchSylph and MaidHeir are essentially microcosms of the active passive scale inside the active or passive halves respectively, theyre still paired as MostActive and MostPassive pairs both.
But you could also think of them as where the two ends of the active or passive side overlap into the other side.
like for example Maid and Sylph technically existing on both scales where they overlap in the middle
Maid can be considered a Class that's so In-Active, that it flips over into the Passive side by technicality and thus is a Passive class.
Sylph likewise being considered a Class that so Im-Passive, that it flips over into the Active Side by technicality and thus is an Active class.
Maid and Sylph just kind of exist in their own space in my head like that
IF you consider the active passive scale to be similar to the PH Scale between acidic and basic, what I imagine is going on is essentially that the least acidic acid, which has acid inside it, also has enough basic inside it that it balances out to be on the basic end of the scale.
its kinda like math that says -3 and +4 = +1
I DO Believe the Pairings of WitchSylph as a common pair, share a common power, I Believe they are the Change/Manipulation/Transformation pair, regardless of the specific verb used in any case or by any character, the power overall is the umbrella of Change, I've always thought that of the powers, that it's not about coming down to a single verb.
just as i Do Believe the Pairing of MaidHeir as a common pair, also shares a common power, I believe they are the Creation umbrella pair
Essentially all the canon reveal has done for me is flip where i think of Heir and Sylph in the powers
But as terms to call them when talking about them like that like if its Active Change and Active Change how do you differentiate, in my head instead of saying Active and Passive, I've been thinking of it like this:
Active and In-Active for WitchSylph Im-Passive and Passive for MaidHeir
Because if Both Sylph and Maid classes are in the middle of the scale, can they really be considered either Passive or Active in that sense? when theyre barely a value above 0 in either direction etc
especially with my earlier metaphor of me thinking of them on the acidic/basic scale as being roughly equal mixes of both that lean to either side.
I'm also aware that's a tad headcanony though, because the canon answer more likely is that despite being a common pairing, the powers of a pair that share activity level are just more strongly differentiated on the power side instead, aka they're more likely to use a different specific verb to describe their powers
Consider this piece of text in canon:
"both classes in +/- pairs tend to have very similar descriptions." and right after that Prince and Bard, as an +/- Active Passive pair is given to us with Active Destroy and Passive Destroy, essentially
What that implies is that the opposite is true for the other cases aka: "Both classes in +/+ or -/- pairs tend to have very different descriptions."
and this comes down to the very specific niche verbs used to represent each class in particular, like how Page's verb was revealed one time to be part of the "Fights to Preserve" as a whole, and since it's an active/passive pair with Knight, Knight is then also Active Fight to Preserve etc
So the canonical Answer is just that Despite Witch and Sylph being a common pair, because they are an active/active pair, their powers are gonna be describe with different Verbs, so they will end up being as Active X and Active Y in the simple definitions
same for Maid and Heir, despite being a common pair, they are a passive/passive pair so their specific verbs will end up being something like "Passive A and Passive B"
But
I will bet you dollars to dickens, that whatever verb is chosen to be X or Y for Witch and Sylph, both will be connected to the umbrella of Change/Transformation/Manipulation, the idea of one thing becoming a different thing
and the same goes for Maid and Heir, whatever verbs get chosen for A or B you could place into the Umbrella of Creation, the idea of creating something new that didn't exist previously inside a location
In this way, the regular Inversion Pairs remain mostly the same, with just Heir and Sylph flipping to each other spots
so the inversion pairs for this Theory are as follows:
Witch >< Seer Mage >< Sylph Prince >< Heir Maid >< Bard Thief >< Page Knight >< Rogue
BUT There is an alternatively theory, which changes the inversion pairs a bit more drastically, because it changes the entire Umbrella Terms of the 6 Major Functions to being slightly different ones
If Destruction being all male and Creation being all female is no longer a major axis, no longer a major core of class theory, then is Creation/Destruction even the proper axis of classes at all?
Knights and Pages mind you are already no longer just the umbrella of Application, the idea of using what's there without knowing/moving/creating/changing/destroying, but Specifically Fighting to Preserve, its a slightly different idea of not just about using what you've got, but making sure its kept in stasis, preserved as well
Fight to Preserve is a term that is specifically opposed to Destruction in it's definition, it's fighting to preserve it against the forces of Destruction, like Defending it from an Attack.
Maids and Heirs aren't Creating something so much as they are Serving and Inheriting it literally to use specific terms, both very close to the idea of Giving and Gifts
Thieves and Rogues are to Steal…
So what if the opposed pairs here are not create destroy and apply move
but Preserve and Destroy and Give and Take?
Protection/Destruction, to Build Up to the Top or to Tear Down to the Bottom
versus Inherit or Theft, Serve or Rob, Give Forwards and Take Back.
Up, Down, Forwards, Back, an axis of movement in all four directions
leaving two quantum quark positions left: Strange and Charm I Mean Change and Know
That would make the inversion class pairs akin to all the opposite positions of the six Quantum Quark orientations in a way
and they would be like this:
Witch >< Seer Mage >< Sylph Prince >< Page Knight >< Bard Thief >< Heir Maid >< Rogue
some may prefer this flavor of inversion theory since it more closely aligns to the very Literal verbs used for each of the classes
At the moment, I'm still more closely connected to the idea of the powers of the 6 classes not Just being 6 literal verbs but still 6 Umbrella Functions that just also Contain the most common used verbs as Simplified descriptions of the overall powers
but being so fr if Hussie described his class bible document as being little more than the pairing's he revealed plus the list of verbs they used
he almost definitely didn't put as much thought into this system as i have and the stuff and system that I've made I'm more and more convinced is less a describing of canon intent and more an expansion of fandom intent
and I already figured that ever since we got the Aspect Wheel of canon stuff relating to the aspects, I've been calling my work even then "Dahni Expansions"
So I mean, there's the two different answers I would give on this subject, lol
Because i just Like my own ideas better because of course I do, for now im sticking with Option A
Which is just that Sylph and Heir have just flipped positions as MostPassive Change and MostPassive Create and the system as-is remains otherwise preserved
MagexSylph and PrincexHeir Inversions
I was having thoughts in the official homestuck discord a bit but I figured I should repeat them here for y'all as well
Now that we have canon class pairs and a full active passive scale I've rethought somewhat what a couple inversion pairs are but its nothing too crazy, its essentially just that for all intents and purposes Sylphs and Heirs Swap Places, which only affects two inversion pairs now
Mages and Sylphs invert to eachother and Princes and Heirs Invert to eachother
So, what does that even look like? well, here's my sort of unpolished thoughts:
Will you be making a revised version of your old classpect blogposts? Or post your thoughts on the canon pairings? Personally would love to know your thoughts.
Regardless, please don't delete your old classpect masterposts 💔 the ancient texts.
not to worry i will leave the ancient sacred texts preserved
if i delve into my modern takes on homestuck class theory
i imagine i would actually host them as works on a03
i think the chapter system would be a really good way to organize these in the future, then trying to organize a million different tumblr posts
It's one hundred percent real. Since they fixed the website, they've been releasing homestuck in batches, so that new readers can feel the simulation of what we went through. When the comic was still updating. Along with that announcement came a new official discord server with events like q and a's with hussy at certain milestones. Another event was a bunch of polls as to what hussie should draw, which is where the befriend ancestor designs you mightve seen around came from
oh thats very cool then
ive joined it now and have been messaging here or there, so you may see me around
if i ever do anything like update my classpect thoughts or modernize them
it will still be posted on this tumblr tho
i guess im just so used to back in day when people kept making fake tumblr accounts pretending to be hussie saying stuff and folks would fall for it 😭
it got so common and i would get floods of messages about that my default responds to it was "sounds fake lmao"
either way curious what else hussie will talk abput then, seems the trend is filling in long unanswered holes for stuff, but just enough to try and stir interest again
oh boy :o
ngl?
i kinda like it?
its actually an interesting twist on it?
and maybe its cuz all my old stuff is 10 years old at this point so im less emotionally attached to it but yeah i kinda dig it
theres some interesting paradigms here with the specific placement of classes, how the flip between prince and bard is more intense because its flipping through a larger portion of the scale at once
how flips like mage seer appear more subtle because their closer, the overall changes smaller, subtler
then pairings like maid/heir and witch/sylph suggest a different sort of stability overall because while the overall levels of activity/passivity are flipping roughly the same amounts as the average class pair, still remaining on the same activity Side suggests a flip in which the core theme remain remains the same, but either a subdued enhanced version
overall i think i have to say i really like it
its giving variations to class interactions that make pairs feel different and unique, not just cutting them all down to an identical framework(as much as im very fond of identical frameworks) and honestly i think it gives me a clearer light to some stuff that i probly fumbled before, where i had a feeling of some type of way, like how mage seer felt subtler versus prince bard felt more intense, but struggled to articulate it in the framework i had before
this feels a lot better articulated
i might actually have to really sit downand reorganize my thoughts to align to this, its probably gonna come out a lot better now
Dahni!! Canon classpect details are out and you were crazy for figuring this out since FOREVER. you're the goat
(source is hussie himself from the homestuck discord server)
i have strong doubts this is real tbh
no shade to you but hussie afaik has never been known to really openly interact with fans, much less do stuff like outright canonize classpect stuff this directly
much less on a discord server of all things 🤣
its just not something ive ever known him to do, that said
all those pairings either way were p commonly thought of in fandom afaik like im p sure these are all what folks already commonly already thought (which doesnt line up with the it messes with fandom line)
but i do have to say i at least was always fervently against witch/sylph and maid/heir, much less pairings that are Both active or both passive, that kinda throws out my mental framework of things more than anything tbh
i guess he does note them as fucked up pattern breakers, and they are stil flips between highly active and Less active states, technically
i suppose it make sense if you consider this all as a sliding scale of activity more like a ph scale
id still would have preffered it if maid and sylphs active or passive natures were on the technically other sides, but their both the technical middle of the respect scales, ph of 7 basic water etc
so it kinda makes sense they would the two mostly likely to be equivalent to the other
they arent really strongly active or passive but more neutral, just happening to slightly tweak in the direction i didnt expect
id have to relook at my scale i made awhile ago to see how it lines up and i guess rethink the 6 interactions and the ways i think of them in terms of class pairs
assumingly all this is real and not Yet Again another internet hussie impersonator, lol
if it is real someone toss me an invite to the discord
i might maybe go check it out if so
is this actually real
ye real thats hussie
no its fake impersonator again
hey man i recently stumbled across your waste/matter pair and i absolutely adore your takes for things. I have no idea if you’re still actively doing things here but i might as well take my shot regardless. 100% of the shots you don’t take or something like that
could i incorporate your take on waste and matter into my general takes on things, and potentially expand on matter for my own classpecting stuff?
you may do whatever you want with everything for all time
well, I supposed now there will be an influx of homestuck fans online who did not read homestuck. You must understand - this is no change to the status quo
Once you become a certain age, it is your responsibility to unlearn behaviors that hinder your growth as a person.
Man I cannot stress this enough. The “this is how I am, take it or leave it” attitude is an act of immaturity. We all have toxic traits that we need to work on and as an adult it’s our responsibility to recognize the damage that they can do to the ones we love. We all need to put in more effort in becoming better individuals.
Everyone's parents inherited them Something bad, and as a person who got it really bad, really really bad, Everyone got Something bad from their parents it was helpful to explain and process feelings as a child, to explain it away as "my parents made me like this and its not my fault i am behind my peeers even when i try" but by the time you start being late 20's early 30's, that same reasoning sounds the same as saying stuff like "my parents never taught me how to cook or clean myself" well, how many decades is it gonna take you to teach yourself to do it yknow? that you had to teach yourself some things that others were able to be taught by their parents can definitely feel unfair, but you still have to teach yourself at some point and that just goes for everything bad patterns of behaviour, skills, the way you live, the way you exist, the way you think, how you eat, how you stay clean, how you dress, the way you view others, any number of horrible things that you absorbed as a child because you didn't know any better then
you gotta unlearn it sometime
I half agree and half disagree. If we as babies had no parents, no peers to teach us, we'd not discover or teach ourselves anything. We'd cry and cry and die being unable to walk or to eat what's correct or even clean ourselves. Yes. Clean ourselves.
You must learn, yes, but you have never taught yourself anything, your peers taught you, you observed them, you learned from them and you tried practicing what you learned. Please stop with the thinking that you are only responsible for yourself, you aren't, you are responsible for everyone around you and they are responsible for you.
Individualism is poison. Collectivism is key.
Now anyways, some of the things we inherit from our parents is BPD and Depression, if you're normal, go ahead and change yourself, if you aren't, any effort is good effort. And if at some point you can't make the effort, well it's ok, do it another day.
Also, sorry Dahni you literally put "Even if I try" thus meaning you did try, and it was shown not to work, is that really the same thing as "I never learned how to clean myself so I never tried"?
the sentence you are referring to was from the perspective of a 6 year old version of myself that lamented not having clean clothes because of being unable to rely on my parents to run the laundry, and being 6, not having the strength, capability or resources to either do the laundry myself or get someone to do it for me it was a self comfort when being mocked by other children for not having clean clothes, an entirely natural thought process only Because of being unable to access the resource called clean clothes through no fault of my own the difference that I'm talking about nowadays is being 30 years old versus 6, when you are no longer a child unable to make choices, unable to access resources, yes, the way you live Does start to become your responsibility, as an adult, you are responsible for what happens to you at a base level
and that Includes when you lack the capability to care for yourself, you are still responsible for organizing your own care, for initiating that process, whether that's asking a friend for help, asking family for favours or paying for a service or getting diagnosed or going on some medicine etc etc all of that is still your responsibility as an adult reminder the original post is about unlearning behaviours that you grew up not knowing were not okay, i grew up never observing how laundry is done, never knew how to properly clean clothes, what soaps to use etc so i never got into the habit as a kid of doing chores, meaning as a young adult i struggled with doing chores like dishes and laundry on proper schedule and as a child that wasn't my fault or responsibility but as an adult, if i show up to work with smelly clothes and say something like "well i didn't figure it out yet" that doesn't matter, its still my responsibility to have figured it out Before going to work, however that process was going to look like for me, whether i learn, call in a favour, or pay a service
I have adhd, which means organizing tasks and schedule appointments is a sisphyean nightmare, never going to get better, never truly. guess who still has to get through the process of making doctors appointments for myself, answering phone calls on time, and showing up to the doctors appointments that i made? Still all my responsibility even so this post is aimed at folks who stop before they even attempt, who have learned helplessness in childhood and need to Unlearn it as an adult, those folks do in fact need to look at themselves and ask themselves "so, how long until i start taking care of the problem" and if that's a day a year or a decade, that's a self reflection process they have to go through and figure out
i learned helplessness my entire childhood and through most of my young adult years, and at a certain point, you either have to make a decision to start the process of unlearning it or not
Once you become a certain age, it is your responsibility to unlearn behaviors that hinder your growth as a person.
Man I cannot stress this enough. The “this is how I am, take it or leave it” attitude is an act of immaturity. We all have toxic traits that we need to work on and as an adult it’s our responsibility to recognize the damage that they can do to the ones we love. We all need to put in more effort in becoming better individuals.
Everyone's parents inherited them Something bad, and as a person who got it really bad, really really bad, Everyone got Something bad from their parents it was helpful to explain and process feelings as a child, to explain it away as "my parents made me like this and its not my fault i am behind my peeers even when i try" but by the time you start being late 20's early 30's, that same reasoning sounds the same as saying stuff like "my parents never taught me how to cook or clean myself" well, how many decades is it gonna take you to teach yourself to do it yknow? that you had to teach yourself some things that others were able to be taught by their parents can definitely feel unfair, but you still have to teach yourself at some point and that just goes for everything bad patterns of behaviour, skills, the way you live, the way you exist, the way you think, how you eat, how you stay clean, how you dress, the way you view others, any number of horrible things that you absorbed as a child because you didn't know any better then
you gotta unlearn it sometime
This YouTube comment had me leaning hands braced on knees like that person who had to take their shirt off to process Destiel becoming canon.
this is one of my favourite videos ever i turned it into an mp3 and put it on my phone so i could listen to iy whenever i wanted
I was obsessed with this blog in middle school to the point I made an info binder based on your classpect posts haha. I'm in college now and just checked here for the first time in a while, happy to see you're still here!
asks that make me feel Old
So tldr version James Roach runs HS^2 now and part and parcel of that, he "revealed" Reader's GT. But I feel like people forget (or don't know) that Roach's whole Deal is making shit up about Homestuck canon. Reader's actual GT will never be known but it sure as hell isn't anything James Roach says it is.
lmao figured it was something like that
humor does tend to float over peoples heads a lot