#affc outline

[catofoldstones]

Comments under the affc outline

Maybe reddit is okay sometimes

[daysandfiber]

"news from white harbor"

im so ready for this to be about sansa hearing about "arya" (queue peak stark sibling angst) before learning its ACTUALLY jeyne (queue peak childhood friend angst) and realizing petyrs role in everything...

[agentrouka-blog]

Hey! Did you find the time to read the affc outline yet? I just know people are seething lol. I wanted to ask, what did you think about the Tyrion outline? That he will “witness incest”? Will he see two people and be reminded of Jaime/Cersei because there doesn’t seem to be any other option. Dany is alone and I doubt she will get together with Aegon VI later in the volume.

Moreover, I feel like the pov Prince of Sorrows is Tyrion’s or Tyrion centric nonetheless because I feel “whores go everywhere” is the answer to the constant question Tyrion asks himself in adwd - “where do whores go”. Maybe he finds out about Tysha and it is painful??

I know at this point we can only speculate because we don’t have any evidence to go off on, but what do you think, can we figure out something about the outline?

Hi there! :)

(Reddit post in question)

I've read it but not in-depth. No time, unfortunately. (Employment is a huge impediment to fandom...)

Here are some rambling thoughts, yay!

I'm pretty sure the Prince of Sorrows refers to concept that Tyrion was supposed to have an encounter with the Shrouded Lord (I think?) in a dream of some kind, probably during his near-death at the Bridge of Dream, which was in the Sorrows stretch of the Rhoyne. What snippets of philosophical musings GRRM put under that header certainly fit a transcendent confrontation with Tyrion's conscience. "Let it go or it will become you. Let them go - will not bring you peace." Tyrion's inability to let go of his own trauma and resulting rage (like Dany, like Theon, like Stannis, like LSH, like Bran, like Arya etc etc etc) is utterly the root of his own villainy and future undoing. So that checks out. GRRM cut it, probably because it may have been too heavy-handed at this point in time. He instead opted to show us a Tyrion descending into complete depravity at Selhorys, with any self-reflection deferred to a much later point.

"Witness to incest" is so vague that I don't think we can even extrapolate it refers to any specific action with the plot so much as it's a self-description.

It's important to remember that this informal little note of an outline is from GRRM for GRRM, and these are prompts or reminders that tie into his already existing thoughts. We have no idea what those thoughts are. A phrase like "KILL THE MOUSE" or "witness to incest" can refer to an intended quote, it can refer to a status he wants to emphasize inside the chapter, it can be a personal reminder to achieve a specific moment or plot point, it can be symbolic. Is the Mouse Shadrich, or is it a code for Alayne, who is a mousy-brown creature scurrying about the castle, different but similar to Arya's Harrenhal mouse era? What it does is beautifully showcase how he structures the more pragmatic, detailed bits of his plot around key points he wants to make. Take the Arya notes. "The joy of giving". Obviously, he is working on complex imagery that juxtaposes "taking a life" with "giving the gift", the hypocritisy of murder for hire - and the genuine peace offered to those who come to die of their own volition. Here, too, GRRM chose to hold back on actually going into these issues in the finished product in Feast-Dance, probably saving it for the climactic escape and/or Arya's confrontation with Catelyn's revenant.

Is the incest Jaime and Cersei, which Tyrion has witnessed all his life? Was it meant to tie into Aegon and Dany (who he learns are intended to marry), or to set up something else, or both? GRRM chose to cut it, anyway, so the sentiment may well come back at a later point, much like the insights in the Prince of Sorrows.

Basically, while the emphasis on Sansa's identity is a pleasantly unambiguous support for her (already obvious) trajectory north in GRRM's own mind, I don't think we'll get much else out of this outline that isn't already in the text one way or the other. We shouldn't be too literal with the notes in there because he wasn't writing an explanation of his plot, he was writing an extremely self-referential little to-do list that may be as reliable as the to-do lists I write for myself on a day off: i.e., I end up doing one thing and scrap the rest in favor of lying around on my couch.

[catofoldstones]

babe wake up, new asoiaf outline dropped and the mutuals have already extrapolated the story from there

[catofoldstones]

Lol they are coping. The outline mentions Sansa's resolve to become Sansa Stark which means that it's an internal decision on her part to push away Baelish's consistent forcing of Alayne persona onto her. Secondly the white harbour news is mentioned for a reason. It's mostly likely the catalyst that triggers her to shed away her Alayne identity and resolve to come back into her own. Very much likely that it's going to be the news of Arya's marriage to Ramsay.

Yeah, it’s selective reading and plausible deniability working overtime to make their moth-eaten, barely standing arguments make sense. As always.

Exactly. The argument that ‘take north’ is Baelish’s plan falls in front of the news of White Harbour, whatever that may be - Arya’s wedding to Ramsey Bolton or that Rickon has been found alive on Skagos and brought back. Both are very compelling and will no wonder push Sansa to take matters into her own hands. Though I feel that the news will contain some information that will antagonise Baelish to Sansa fully and finally, making her resolve to run even stronger. So it could be the Arya news. I mean, selling your sister to a barbarous political enemy does make Baelish enemy no. 1. But that is all speculation at this point, considering the outline is 20 years old and solely for GRRM’s own reference.

[catofoldstones]

I didn't know the BNFs are in denial about the AFFC outline. What are they saying? What else could it even mean? Sansa resolves to be Serena Stork and decides take northern Essos? Bless them, I wish them well in the fandom wars to come.

LMFAOOO