I think what's truly sad for me is that Ray will never forgive Isabella for hurting and manipulating his siblings (and maybe deep down unconsciously for the way she treated him + constantly kept him on the edge and off kilter, but this aspect of their relationship is probably the one he is the most blase about as he sees this agony as self inflicted)
On the other hand Norman....should we go with the hc that he knows that Isabella is Ray's mom...would never forgive Isabella for deceiving them and hurting them yes, but also because he could never forgive her for how she treated Ray (Norman also would have by then revisited the way Ray and Isabella behaved around each other and connected the dots and the blank spaces, hating the picture and feeling more and more sick as he got a glimpse of Ray's headspace on that terrible night before his birthday)
It's been years and I still haven't gotten over this either klfjs
He can understand the circumstances she found herself in and acknowledge all the good she's done in ending the farm system, but as discussed in this ask it doesn't translate into him emotionally registering it, or at the very least not fully nor in a linear fashion.
…but this aspect of their relationship is probably the one he is the most blase about as he sees this agony as self inflicted.
OMFG YESSSS I've talked about this before on this post, but Ray absolutely loathes pity.
(S1 Episode 9)
You can feel the profound weight of a lifetime of suffering and loss on his face as he grapples with trying to keep his emotions out of what he’ll say next, because he never brings up how what happened in all the years prior made him feel, not even when Emma provides him with an opportunity where she prompts him with speculation about what it must have been like seeing dozens of their siblings off and being powerless to do anything about it in chapter 15/episode 5.
(Chapter 181.1)
He never explicitly colors his recollections with emotions when discussing them with Emma and Norman, how what was happening around him and what he and Isabella did made him feel, and only displays the full anguish of what that did to him when he's speaking with Emma on the night of January 14th. While the two knew Ray intended to kill himself to serve as a distraction for them to escape, Emma never knew how deeply he internalized his self-loathing and the belief that he deserved to die for his actions and inaction until that eventful night, otherwise she would have asked one of the other kids to go talk to him, if not just have said “fuck it” and did it herself, Isabella's watchful eye be damned. She would not have let him suffer to that degree so long on his own; it goes against every fiber of her being.
Ray keeps all of that inside though, because he doesn't want their pity. He doesn't believe he deserves any when he actively chose to become Isabella's informant and which children would be shipped out early due to his experimentation with the trackers, least of all from the two people who are firmly categorized as genuinely good and worth saving in his mind. He loves them enough to squash down his humanity and die for them.
On the other hand Norman….should we go with the hc that he knows that Isabella is Ray's mom…would never forgive Isabella for deceiving them and hurting them yes, but also because he could never forgive her for how she treated Ray
Not sure if you were the anon who sent this ask last year but REALEST SHIT he would be internally livid about how she treated Ray, even without that additional layer of their relationship.
Love overthinking this panel from chapter 174 and how Norman appears in it. It could easily just be due to knowing Ray had a unique relationship with Isabella from being her spy for years, but why not throw more angst in given his knowing and somber expression? Out of all the kids, he seems the most likely to piece things together on his own, especially with all the time he had to pore over things in Lambda. All the oddities he noticed between Isabella and Ray but chalked up to other things at the time, and isn't that so incredibly like Ray to keep that kind of conflict and pain to himself, either to spare others or because he loathes pity. There's a sad fondness tinging the thought.
(Norman also would have by then revisited the way Ray and Isabella behaved around each other and connected the dots and the blank spaces, hating the picture and feeling more and more sick as he got a glimpse of Ray's headspace on that terrible night before his birthday)
Again I think he would feel this way regardless, but presumably they read stories at Grace Field featuring biological parent-child relationships and probably pondered what those kind of ties could entail and feel like. It's knowing both were aware of those ties and that Ray hoped it would mean something to Isabella only to have that hope crushed in such a cruel manner that evokes additional ire from Norman, centering how Ray was feeling over the general expectation that sharing blood somehow elevated their relationship/made it more special with how at odds that feels with the themes of the series.
But yes, somehow them arriving at the topic (a number of ways it could come up, ranging from the more pointed to the more subdued), and Norman revealing he put the pieces together because he had a lot of time to think at Lambda, citing a few instances that made more sense to him because of it, and in an echo of their exchange in chapter 13/S1 episode 5, Ray responds with something along the lines of "I really can't get anything past you, huh."
Norman's intelligence is one of the many reasons he's fond of and cares for him, how capable and attentive it can make him, but there's bittersweetness and grief tinging those words due to the situation in general and at the thought of having been obvious about things back at the house that all circle back around to him loathing the idea of pity directed at him when roughly sixty of his siblings at Grace Field plant #3 suffered a worse fate under Isabella's care, a few of them as a direct result of his choices.
It's the self-loathing that makes his mind interpret his friends looking at him with pity when what they're offering him is understanding, compassion, and love.
How does the protection magic that Lily's sacrifice placed on Harry work? On that note- how do the blood wards placed on the Dursley household operate?
Like- does the latter act as a notice me not/ fidelius of its own? Protecting Harry's location from other magicals? (It would have been easy for another Longbottom tragedy to occur after all) from what I remember the blood wards have no affect on the protection cast by Lily's sacrifice, and instead sort of extend the effect to the household???
Also on the topic of the protection- we saw the end Quirrel met. And... I just wondered- why didn't this sort of reaction extend to all the people - the Dursleys included- who laid their hands + spells on Harry with the intent to harm? By all means the blood wards should have fallen the moment The Dursleys tried to physically harm Harry. Can't see a protection powered by Lily's intent, extending to people who mean her son harm.
Unless of course the magic and the wards are targetted at Riddle specifically. Which brings the question- why didn't it set on fire/ harm anything considering even the traces of Riddle's presence/ influence. Eg. The people with the death Eater brands, the horcruxes, the soul shard inside Harry himself??
Ugh. Just so many questions.
Ps. Could the blood wards have been transferred/ worked in a residence comprising of the people Harry considered as his family and who reciprocated this sentiment? (based on the importance of intent to keep the spell going)
Wow, @ana-lyz, just like with the veil and death asks, I just started drafting a post about Lily's blood protections and what Dumbledore says about them. So...
Lily's Love Protection and Dumbledore's Blood Wards
Alright, strap in...
Okay, so let's start by seeing what we're told about the blood protections and whether we can gather something cohesive that makes magical sense out of it.
We have Voldemort's statement on this piece of magic:
“...I wanted Harry Potter’s blood. I wanted the blood of the one who had stripped me of power thirteen years ago . . . for the lingering protection his mother once gave him would then reside in my veins too. . . .
“But how to get at Harry Potter? For he has been better protected than I think even he knows, protected in ways devised by Dumbledore long ago, when it fell to him to arrange the boy’s future. Dumbledore invoked an ancient magic, to ensure the boy’s protection as long as he is in his relations’ care. Not even I can touch him there. . . .
(GoF, 657)
Notice there is the lingering protection from Lily's magic and the ancient magic Dumbledore invoked. These are, I believe separate spells.
Dumbledore's statements:
“But why couldn’t Quirrell touch me?”
“Your mother died to save you. If there is one thing Voldemort cannot understand, it is love. He didn’t realize that love as powerful as your mother’s for you leaves its own mark. Not a scar, no visible sign…to have been loved so deeply, even though the person who loved us is gone, will give us some protection forever. It is in your very skin. Quirrell, full of hatred, greed, and ambition, sharing his soul with Voldemort, could not touch you for this reason. It was agony to touch a person marked by something so good.”
(PS, 215)
“But I knew too where Voldemort was weak. And so I made my decision. You would be protected by an ancient magic of which he knows, which he despises, and which he has always, therefore, underestimated — to his cost. I am speaking, of course, of the fact that your mother died to save you. She gave you a lingering protection he never expected, a protection that flows in your veins to this day. I put my trust, therefore, in your mother’s blood. I delivered you to her sister, her only remaining relative.”
“She doesn’t love me,” said Harry at once. “She doesn’t give a
damn —”
“But she took you,” Dumbledore cut across him. “She may have taken you grudgingly, furiously, unwillingly, bitterly, yet still she took you, and in doing so, she sealed the charm I placed upon you. Your mother’s sacrifice made the bond of blood the strongest shield I could give you.”
“I still don’t —”
“While you can still call home the place where your mother’s blood dwells, there you cannot be touched or harmed by Voldemort. He shed her blood, but it lives on in you and her sister. Her blood became your refuge. You need return there only once a year, but as long as you can still call it home, there he cannot hurt you. Your aunt knows this. I explained what I had done in the letter I left, with you, on her doorstep. She knows that allowing you houseroom may well have kept you alive for the past fifteen years.”
(OotP, 835-836)
Here again, Dumbledore mentions the ancient magic he made the decision to protect Harry with as a separate thing from the lingering protection from Lily.
And (as per this post) the Dumbledore Harry hallucinates statement:
“He took my blood.” said Harry.
“Precisely!” said Dumbledore. “He took your blood and rebuilt his living body with it! Your blood in his veins, Harry, Lily’s protection inside both of you! He tethered you to life while he lives!”
(DH, 598)
And then we have what happened to Quirrell:
Quirrell raised his hand to perform a deadly curse, but Harry, by instinct, reached up and grabbed Quirrell’s face —
“AAAARGH!”
Quirrell rolled off him, his face blistering, too, and then Harry knew: Quirrell couldn’t touch his bare skin, not without suffering terrible pain — his only chance was to keep hold of Quirrell, keep him in enough pain to stop him from doing a curse.
Harry jumped to his feet, caught Quirrell by the arm, and hung on as tight as he could. Quirrell screamed and tried to throw Harry off — the pain in Harry’s head was building — he couldn’t see — he could only hear Quirrell’s terrible shrieks and Voldemort’s yells of, “KILL HIM! KILL HIM!”
(PS, 212)
What we know from this
Well, from the above quotes we can divide the magical protections on Harry into 2 different spells as I mentioned above:
Lily's sacrificial love protection - the intention magic Lily cast by protecting her son. This is the magic that blocked the Killing Curse and killed Quirrell.
Dumbledore's blood ward - this is the spell Dumbledore cast that (supposedly) protects Harry in his relatives' home. Voldemort says Dumbledore invoked this magic, and Dumbledore also mentions it's a ward he left that built upon Lily's protection, but it's not a spell Lily left.
So, what can Lil'y Sacrificial Love Protection do:
Makes the Killing Curse not kill Harry.
Returns the Killing Curse back to the sender.
Continues to hurt that initial "sender" whenever he tries to kill Harry.
What about Dumbledore's Blood Wards what do they do:
Nothing.
Dumbledore and Voldemort say this magic exists but it never does anything. We never see it active, it never protects Harry from anyone, neither his relatives nor Death Eaters. So, we don't know what it's supposed to be doing since it doesn't do anything in the books.
Voldemort says it won't allow him to touch Harry in his relatives' house.
How I think these spells actually work
I'll start with Dumbledore's Blood Wards:
I simply don't think this ward actually exists.
Dumbledore isn't very consistent with how this protection works. He says Harry needs to return for a bit to live with Petunia for the magic to work, but if that's all the requirement, why long weeks? Couldn't he return for a shorter time? And each year he spends a different amount of time at Private Drive? Couldn't he always be sent back just for the minimal required time? At first, the ward was about love but then it isn't, he says this: "While you can still call home the place where your mother’s blood dwells, there you cannot be touched or harmed by Voldemort."
Harry didn't think of Private Drive as a home:
Harry could hardly believe it when he realized that he’d already been at Hogwarts two months. The castle felt more like home than Privet Drive ever had.
(PS, 123)
“I believe he had several reasons, though he confided none of them to Professor Dippet,” said Dumbledore. “Firstly, and very importantly, Voldemort was, I believe, more attached to this school than he has ever been to a person. Hogwarts was where he had been happiest; the first and only place he had felt at home.”
Harry felt slightly uncomfortable at these words, for this was exactly how he felt about Hogwarts too.
(HBP, 431)
Harry never considered Private Drive and the Dursleys his home. Hogwarts was his first home.
If there is no love and it isn't a home, even if Dumbledore did cast a blood ward based on Petunia and Lily's sacrifice it won't actually be active. But personally, I don't think this ward actually exists.
Dumbledore needs a reason to keep Harry with his relatives.
Dumbledore needs Harry malleable, low on self-esteem, and lacking in a support network. Because he knew since October 1981 (but probably before) that he'd likely need Harry to die. He suspected Harry was a Horcrux from practically day 1:
Under a tuft of jetblack hair over his forehead they could see a curiously shaped cut, like a bolt of lightning.
“Is that where —?” whispered Professor McGonagall.
“Yes,” said Dumbledore. “He’ll have that scar forever.”
“Couldn’t you do something about it, Dumbledore?”
“Even if I could, I wouldn’t. Scars can come in handy...
(PS, 13-14)
And being raised by the Dursleys ensured that when the time came, when Dumbledore needed Harry to die to destroy Voldemort, Harry would be willing. Because Harry would not put much worth in his own life. Because of that, I think it's not outside the realm of possibility Dumbledore would lie about this ward to have an excuse to keep sending Harry to the Dursleys.
(Sure, Dumbledore would've preferred not to kill Harry if it could be avoided, but he had been preparing for the situation since October 1981)
It's not like he did anything to better their treatment of Harry until book 6, when he needed Harry to start trusting him more...
And like I mentioned above, even if the ward was there, it would not be active because Private Drive was never a home for Harry. And after year 4, when Voldemort took his blood, any protection from any blood-related magic would be moot. Because Voldemort would not be counted as a threat by the ward.
So Dumbledore sending Harry back to the Dursleys after he knew the wards he left (if they were there at all) were gone, proves to me Harry's placement at the Dursleys was never about the wards to begin with. Because if the blood wards are gone, literally anywhere else around wizards who could protect Harry would be safer than at the Dursleys, even when thinking of Death Eaters and Voldemort as the only threat. If they came to find Harry at Private Drive, nothing would've stopped them (except Harry himself).
I could guess wards like this, if they actually were active, would have been an extension of Lily's protection and stopped Voldemrot from being able to enter the Dursleys' residence. From what's said, it seems this ward seems to target Voldemrot specifically, and no one else. But, as I mentioned, I don't think it's really there.
Lil'y Sacrificial Love Protection:
I mentioned in the past how intention and emotion mean a lot for magic in the HP universe. Lily, a witch who we are told repeatedly was powerful, intelligent, and talented, could very well cast a powerful protection out of her love and intention to protect her son. That is 100% possible with what we see magic is capable of and how magic seems to work.
That being said, the fact this never happened before suggests to me Lily did something different than just having a very strong wish for her son to survive. Dumbledore says it's because she had a choice, and in a way it is, but not because Voldemort gave her the option not to die, but because she chose to die instead of Harry.
I'll try to explain it, bear with me.
“Not Harry, not Harry, please not Harry!”
“Stand aside, you silly girl. . . stand aside now.”
“Not Harry, please no, take me, kill me instead—”
“This is my last warning—”
“Not Harry! Please . . . have mercy. . . have mercy. . . . Not Harry! Not Harry! Please—I’ll do anything—”
“Stand aside. Stand aside, girl!”
(DH, 297)
This is the "spell" Lily casts — the incantation. This is her wish moments before her death: "Not Harry, kill me instead," that's what she says, that's her promise, that's her wish, that's the magic.
Lily's protection only works on Voldemort because her spell essentially made a bargain with Voldemort (that he didn't agree to). that he'd kill her instead of Harry. Once he killed Lily, he couldn't kill Harry because that was the protection she left him, and Voldemort won't be able to kill him because she died in his stead.
That's why we don't see the same thing happen after James dies to buy Lily and Harry time, why when others die to protect someone they aren't protected from the killing curse. What Lily did is a combination of a few extraordinary circumstances coming together:
She's an incredibly powerful witch (shown by her childhood magic that was very controlled and advanced (not unlike Tom Riddle) and Slughorn's boasting)
She loved Harry dearly. Loved him enough to power an accidental spell.
Chose and intended to die instead of her son. She had intent when making her plea, intent required for any spell.
So what essentially happened is that Lily created a situation where Voldemort physically can't kill Harry because Lily died in his stead. If, for example, Quirrell touched Harry without intending to kill him (like he did when they shook hands in Diagon Alley or when he pulled Harry to stand in front of the mirror) the protection won't activate. All it does is stop Voldemort from killing Harry because he already killed Lily in Harry's stead.
So, Voldemort, as I mentioned in the past, wants to kill Harry, this is his only ambition in the 2nd war. So he takes Harry's blood into himself so the protection won't work anymore. And we see it doesn't in the woods when Voldemort casts the killing curse and it doesn't rebound back on him (which would've happened otherwise).
This love protection from Lily doesn't require anything to stay active. It was cast because Voldemort killed her and Harry doesn't need to do anything to keep it active. Staying with the Dursleys wasn't for the sake of Lily's spell but for Dumbledore's ward.
As for Lily's spell not protecting Hary from anything else, like I mentioned, the bargain was that Voldemort would kill her instead of Harry, it would only protect Harry from being killed by Voldemort. If Voldemort just asked a random Death Eater to kill Harry it still wouldn't have worked, but that won't be because of Lily's love magic, but because of Harry pretty much always being the Master of Death.
Basically, Voldemort was doomed because he had no chance of killing Harry. Ever.
But what about when Harry died in book 7 and said he cast the same sacrificial love?
Well, I don't think Harry cast the same sacrificial love. His feelings and intentions were completely different. In his case, I think he just took the mastership of the Elder Wand so it wasn't performing as well for Voldemort afterward.
Conclusions
There are actually two different and distinct spells referred to by the characters when it comes to the protections Lily left for Harry.
The first is Lily's Sacrificial Love Spell which worked like a bargain. She pleaded with Voldemort to kill her instead of Harry and after he killed her, he could no longer kill Harry because he was protected.
Voldemort taking Harry's blood does indeed circumvent this spell and allows him to kill Harry in the woods (if temporarily).
The second is the Blood Ward Dumbledore talks about that is supposedly placed on the Dursleys' home. This spell was invoked by Dumbledore and is not part of Lily's spell.
It's supposed to build on and strengthen Lily's protection from what's implied.
this second spell would've stopped its activity the moment Harry stopped considering number 4, Private Drive his home (which happened quite young, as he doesn't remember ever considering it a home)
Personally, I don't think this blood ward ever existed, but even if it did, it was moot from the get-go and never done anything.
Voldemort taking Harry's blood in year 4, circumvented this ward too.
Basically, Dumbledore kept Harry at the Durselys less because of the wards and more because it suited him to ensure Harry would become the martyr he needed him to be (something I should write a full post about eventually).
What was the significance of Ray calling Isabella ‘Mother’ before her death? And
Why did Isabella only tell Ray she was sorry and to take care of others and not the thoughts actually raging in her head? Wasn’t that entire thought process, and wanting to ‘mend’ things with Ray one of the primary factors among everything else for her rebellion?
(On that note I am pretty sure Isabella only started reflecting during her confinement thanks to the shock to her system that her children’s escape and the subsequent hope at the impossible being accomplished gave her)
[Related posts here and here]
The Grace Field orphans referring to/addressing Isabella as Mama instead of Mother (ママ vs 母 / お母さん, Haha / Oka-san) is a distinction in the original Japanese text that's lost in the English translation.
In the first panel of the series, Emma says this:
(Chapter 1)
Right off the bat, Shirai means to introduce a degree of separation that, while not automatically nullifying or lessening a sense of familial love, acknowledges a fact that Isabella never hides from the children—that she isn't their biological mother—for the reader to take in.
Even on her deathbed, they refer to her as ママ.
(Chapter 177)
Everyone except Ray, who starts off using ママ before switching to 母さん.
I've talked a lot about this topic over the years (see my tag for Isabella and Ray's relationship here), but one of the most tragic things about their relationship is that their biological connection caused Isabella to hold a profound, unique ire for Ray that she didn't have for any of her other charges.
I continue to debate how much of her maintaining her deal with Ray was strictly for pragmatic reasons and how much was due to wanting to keep him close out of some painfully complicated mess of emotions that was constantly oscillating between a tainted affection and spiteful hatred. Any time she would find herself falling into the former, forgetting the circumstances of their relationship, him being the living, breathing reminder of one of the worst things HQ forced her to endure would resurface and how they chose to put him in her plant as if to silently mock her and unknowingly rub in how pitiful the life of a Mom would always be under this system. To openly love him would be one step further in giving in than she’d already done by accepting the Mom position and loving all the other cattle children she raised for slaughter, and she hated to give that much more of herself than she already had when she wasn’t aware of his origins.
- from this post
"I couldn't dote on you. For twelve years, I made you live a life you wanted to curse."
This is something I originally saw brought up by @just-like-playing-tag that always leaves a bad taste in my mouth for AUs where she and Ray easily mend things and start acting comically chummy with one another:
Least favorite thing about [Isabella]: Eh it has to be how she treated Ray. Now, hear me out:
You know there's this kid who knows that him and his siblings are being raised in a farm. He knows none of them will survive their 12th birthday. He has to see the siblings he obviously loved (because that's what kids do, they love their siblings, no matter how much Ray tried not to get attached) being shipped once every two months. He had to go through all of this, while acting like everything was fine.
And you think "oh yeah why don't we treat him like a fucking animal that's obviously the right thing to do." Just. Girl what's your problem??????? His life was a nightmare, why did you had to make it even worse??????? She called him "dog." She made him hate himself more then the already did. She made it so that he'd never forget that his biological mother hated him. Really,,,, why. Why didn't that boy deserved the "happy life" you promised to give every child you raised. Why did you chose to fuck him up more that he already was.
Even worse, the thing is,,,, I know the reason she did it. It's because she knew Ray was her son, and she didn’t want to get attached in any way. It's because him himself was born out of the system that had tortured her in every way. Because that too was probably the manifestation of a deep self loathing for all she had done and she kept doing. But still- woman, you're an adult. And he was a freaking five years old. All you had to do is not to add more trauma.
So when she says she "couldn't" bring herself to dote on him, it's not that she was holding back special treatment of him because of the farm's rules or something similar. It's that for so long she couldn't bring herself to let go of this disdain she held for him and how that seeped into so many of their interactions after that revelation of their relationship, in ways that were imperceptible to all the other children around him, but Ray knew. He always knew.
(always a riddle inside my head (aesop's kin) by evanescent)
I come back to this moment from S1 episode 10 where she smiles to herself at Ray in the throes of despair after Norman's shipment.
There's no one else around to constitute this being part of a front. This is her silently reveling in thwarting the schemes of children she’s taken care of for years for daring to think they could upset the status quo, taking petty delight in the challenge and the break it offers from the monotony of her existence in her role while also harboring jealously for the hope they hold that she lost so long ago, and finding catharsis in snuffing it out.
But she also recognizes how ugly this is, even if only unconsciously or without ever putting a name to it, which is why she holds a level of detachment in her observations of Ray in the second light novel.
(TPN Light Novel 2: Moms’ Song of Remembrance - “The Starry Sky and Leslie’s List” Chapter 9)
Claiming to hold no particular maternal feelings toward him, always trying her best to refrain from falling into outright loathing, being unable to bring herself to dote on him for all he represented, yet still noting and appreciating the unconditional love Norman and Emma were able to provide Ray and the solace he found in their presence. A tempest of emotions that, as you note, she was only able to fully sort out once she had the distance of both space and time at Grace Field headquarters.
For his part, Ray tries to maintain aloofness and distance in their relationship as well. The bonus sketch of Isabella hugging each member of the full score trio is incredibly telling with him refraining from hugging her back.
re: Ray, I see it as him being either so desperate for affection he goes to her while utterly loathing himself for giving into that moment of weakness (I will forever love the anime for including him humming her lullaby on the night of the fire for what one can interpret from it), or she manipulated him into doing it while they were in front of the other children to remind him of the power she holds in this intricate and delicate hell they’re living in, making him suffer another small defeat in a line of many.
["That’s something he will never have. Ray probably thinks that she is giving him all this because of his academic prowess."]
The wondering whether this is something he treats as a flat matter of fact or if it’s something he laments and forces himself to believe, because imagining Isabella being able to love him while choosing to interact with him the way she does—putting on a loving show in public while taking her mask off behind closed doors and maintaining the clinical air of a business transaction—is simultaneously a waste of energy and too painful.
- from this post
It's part of why his initial presentation of his meeting with Isabella at the wall to Norman is framed like this in chapter 14:
And like this in chapter 28:
When the reality is some mixture of what's presented to us in chapter 37 and chapter 181.1:
Here he appears much more emotional and vulnerable. Any sign of weakness could be used against him, and that's not something he can afford in securing Emma and Norman's future. Yet there's still a small part of him that clings to the hope that Isabella will immediately drop everything to be on their side, the side of all the children in general, and that she won't kill him. Not any of the other children anymore, him specifically now that she's aware of their biological connection after the five years they spent together at Grace Field, because that has to mean something, right?
And we see the pure devastation in his eyes when he realizes she won't.
Even as he does everything he can to steel his resolve and build his mental fortitude over the years, even when he knows logically nothing good can come from longing for a relationship with her that can never be, that small hope remains in his heart that maybe, deep down, she didn’t truly resent him. That maybe, deep down, she could genuinely love him.
And that’s why he has so much trouble finishing his sentence of “to you, I’m…” in S1 episode 8 despite feigning nonchalance when referring to himself as a dog in chapter 13/S1 episode 5.
(As a side note, post-escape I don't think this gnaws at him as much since he's out of the oppressive environment of Grace Field and Isabella's immediate presence, which gives him the time and space to also sort through his feelings and heal through being present for his family, though in this post I've talked about how I don't think they would ever be able to fully shed the past in an AU where she survived.)
All of this contributes to their last conversation in chapter 177.
Why did Isabella only tell Ray she was sorry and to take care of others and not the thoughts actually raging in her head? Wasn’t that entire thought process and wanting to ‘mend’ things with Ray one of the primary factors among everything else for her rebellion?
Her internal monologue in chapter 177 makes it clear she only has so much strength to act as the life leaves her body (which lends itself to Shirai wanting to wrap the series up as quickly as possible at this point).
In the blitz her mind is going through as it rapidly fades, she's addressing the points her heart believes are most important. This includes apologizing to Ray for the way she uniquely wronged him.
(@1000sunnygo's tweets on Ray's use of 母さん throughout the series)
Every instance Ray refers to Isabella as "Mother" is an emotionally charged acknowledgement of their connection and what it's supposed to mean under normal circumstances, be it more obvious such as in the flashbacks during their meeting at the wall or subtly as in the note he used as bait for Krone in chapter 22/S1 episode 7 (I have a separate post on that here).
For the final one, Isabella reaches out to gently cradle his face, and Ray in turn grasps her hand as he cries out at the impending reality that he's forever losing the chance to reconcile crashes over him, willingly accepting and clinging to the ties that brought him so much grief, even if it's an acknowledgement only privately shared between them among those present.
For his part, he mourns the loss of what could have been. How, in another life, they could have had a normal, loving mother-son relationship. Something that as much as he might try to deny after everything with how foolish it could sound, was something he wished for deep in his heart. How now any opportunity at mending their actual relationship, of her making a long-term, concerted effort to repair it was gone. How he was left to pick up the pieces.
- from this post
I think there's also a selfish reading one can pull from her final words to Ray, though it's unintentional on her part given where one's mind must be when they're on the precipice of death.
At this point, it's safe to say she's genuinely remorseful when she states she wishes she had time to atone for everything she's done, and asking Ray to take care of everyone in her stead given what we've seen of him truly beginning to thrive in life when he opens himself up to his family's love and has others relying on him does pair well with those maternal well wishes for the children's future. Yet knowing everything he went through and how little regard he held for his own life for so many years because he was also filled with self-loathing over his actions, her last request being to take care of everyone else without also advocating for him to take care of himself feels somewhat off, especially in light of how it was stressed by Emma and the other escapees in chapter 38.
It's a small choice of wording, and again she's not thinking the clearest when she's so close to death and so overwhelmed with wanting to convey her final sentiments toward them, but that's a lot to place on the shoulders of a thirteen year old, especially when he's not afforded the chance to truly have an honest conversation with her to express all his feelings over the years to her, and he's left to mourn that lost opportunity and all the "what ifs."
- from this post
Yet again she dictates how their relationship will proceed, how this final exchange will play out, and upon reflection of it I think Ray would feel a torrent of emotions similar to what banana_slug_army presents in chapter 4 of her fanfic Sunshine and Solace.
Hatred, bitterness, emptiness. Despite knowing there wasn't much else she could do under the circumstances of her death and learning of everything she worked toward during those two years since he last saw her, it doesn't cancel out the mental scars she left on him over a lifetime, the memories and fear etched into his being that shaped who he was without completely defining him that he could never shed, his blessing and his curse. Their relationship would forever be tainted, and complete reconciliation would be impossible.
But in the immediacy of that moment, in the face of the inevitable and the weight of finality, he desperately wanted to try, and that's what makes him addressing her as "Mother" significant.
Just curious but were there any other reasons besides them being 11, and Ray finding Emma's everything exhausting that caused him to be more teasing with her? (Aka him calling her and idiot, bonking her and what not in ss1)
At most I can see is that- much like Norman Ray also admired Emma. But unlike Norman, Ray who knew the truth, could only see Emma as this naive kid who he needs to protect. He might have been freaked out by her sunshiny personality lol. And maybe started to see her as dependable/ his equal after she saved him and they all escaped.
Explicitly stated reasons, no, but Emma is a very physically affectionate person, so in addition to this:
(Chapter 93)
I chalk it up to being a reciprocal thing, in a similar way to how Norman only shows his impish, calculating side to Ray at Grace Field. Each dynamic of the trio has their own rapport they've established.
(Love the little smile he gives them in "Touch off" mirroring the one he gives her in chapter 14)
Also going to cite this post by @lightningflash55 that I appreciate:
God, I love how when Emma’s a bit slower to pick up on something that Ray wants her to get he doesn’t crack jokes or get frustrated but instead calmly rephrases himself in a way she can understand?
Like he’ll tease her over silly things but when it comes to the important stuff he’s not the same, he’s really patient and gentle about it
---
#Ray is SOOOO good at gently prompting her to understand something or when trying to push her to follow her ideals #they just work so well as a team il their dynamic a lot #Ray for all the times he’s edgy and dramatic or easily gives up has EVEN MORE redeemable qualities #he’s such a good boy he truly is #and Emma’s also not dumb at all she just has a different way of thinking #so ill that he recognizes this ugh just THESE KIDS
Ray always respected and valued Emma as an equal. Even if he found her naivety frustrating for how he saw it as actively working against her chances of survival beyond the wall
(Chapter 4)
she and Norman were both there to comfort him in any way they could, even when they couldn't understand what was upsetting their friend so badly and he couldn't articulate to them what was wrong.
(Chapter 181.1)
(2020 Exhibition Interview)
Ray believes if they can just get Emma to let go of this fantasy of taking everyone with her on the escape, she and Norman can make it in the outside world. He knows how capable they both are in their different methods of approaching things, has seen how well they complement and balance each other out. Norman will keep Emma grounded in the realm of possibility and temper her hopes, while Emma will push Norman to think beyond perceived limitations and save him from completely succumbing to cynicism.
It's why he's so pissed and riddled with worry when Norman acknowledges his plan is more sound but actively chooses to follow Emma's anyway.
(S1 Episode 2)
After Grace Field and having her and Norman shift his entire world view, humbled isn't quite the right word since he was never haughty about this, but he was willing to trust Emma's methods more now that he knew hoping "for a future that is like a dream" wouldn't be another blow to his heart and that striving for an ideal was genuinely viable.
I have been wondering...who gives the children their names? Are the names given by the Mothers of the Farms? Wouldn't it be counter productive? U know with the sentiment that when you name something/one you get attached.
Why not just refer to the children by their IDs? It's not like the children themselves would know that this is fucked up. What with them being raised the way they were.
Copying a chunk of my answer from this post, but Shirai's given us conflicting information on this.
(Mystic Code Book Chapter 1 Q&A)
I default to the bonus comic being the most accurate to simultaneously keep any sisters in HQ from potentially getting attached to the infants by giving them official names and to make the moms more endeared and caring toward the children they named themselves.
(A reward for scoring high on the official site's IQ test, reprinted in The Promised Neverland Art Book World; one of the few times we get to see them with their short sleeves for warmer weather.)
That doesn't mean that all the sisters adhere to that protocol in private, though.
Why not just refer to the children by their IDs? It's not like the children themselves would know that this is fucked up. What with them being raised the way they were.
Maybe for a bit when they've very young, until they learn how to read and start noticing none of the books from the human world address people by numbers.
They already have the identification markers visibly on their necks as opposed to how the other farms place their labels on other body parts that can easily be covered and out of sight, out of mind more often.
(Chapter 27)
Drawing attention to it further would go against one of the two policies of Grace Field that allows them to maintain the veneer of playing house.
Hypothetically speaking- what would have happened had Isabella figured out Ray was her child by herself?? As in Ray never puts Isabella to test (mostly by some hand waivy excuse of him overhearing something she said/ some conversation she had when he was in the womb) and never approaches her to act as her traitor/ dog, but Isabella still somehow figures out his origins.
Would her approach to Ray remain the same? Especially since she isn't aware that he KNOWS the truth. Would she still take that hands off approach with him?? (Would her resentment pile up even more?)
I don't think there would be much difference if Ray still has a lack of infantile amnesia, but he'd at least have a reason readily available for why she would treat him differently from the other children.
Even if he did have it, he'd probably still pick up on all the minute ways she held disdain for him—in brief emotionless gazes he'd catch out of the corner of his eye directed at him‚ the slightest hint of hesitation she'd express at him attempting to share his interests with her compared to the other children in her charge‚ to her purposely being more affectionate toward Emma and Norman in front of him.
(TPN Light Novel 2: Moms’ Song of Remembrance - “The Starry Sky and Leslie’s List” Chapter 9; an unreliable narrator in order to stave off the cognitive dissonance that allowed her to face the monotony of each day and live longer than anyone)
A living, breathing reminder of one of the most traumatic experiences she endured at headquarters who resembled herself in so many ways.
(Chapter 177)
"I couldn't dote on you" because every time she let that affection for him surface, it was like she was conceding more of herself than she already had to the farm system, and she just couldn't bring herself to let that go while they both lived under the oppression of Grace Field.
Hi! First of all I appreciate everything TPN related you do lol, so glad to see that there is a community even though I myself joined the fandom late.
I love Ray’s character arc and basically everything he does. How the trio complement each other and make up for each other's weaknesses. How Ray learns to hope again and what not…but, I have been having difficulty pin pointing the exact moment Ray went from-I’ll only save Emma and Norman to I’ll save my entire family.
Was It a secret thing all along? Because something tells me that Ray always planned to kill himself and die in the manner he preferred rather than what was planned for him. (Not only to resolve his guilt, but also to give a final screw u to both Isabella and the demons. That this plan of his would have been enacted even if Norman was never shipped.
On that note…. Did Norman really agree with Ray’s insistence of leaving everyone behind? Or did he just say ok to acquiesce and reassure Ray (whom Norman might have realised had been spiralling for a long time)? Had Norman not been shipped would he have spent the two months trying to chip away at Ray’s walls/ give him hopes in bits and pieces and convince him? I don't believe that Norman agreed with Emma’s choices just because he liked her (even in ss1)
Thoughts?
Heyyoo late fandom joiners/Ray enthusiasts 😎🤝😎 and thank you! 💝 TPN tumblr has a cozy feel to it and for the most part is pretty chill.
Ray's journey from "I'll endure all the heartache of this hell if it means I can save my two best friends" to "If nothing else, I have to at least save Emma" to being able to do what his mother couldn't and love his family normally is so profoundly endearing and a significant part of what makes the escape arc so beloved, and I'm glad this post where I delve into it a bit more ended up being among my more popular ones:
One could argue Ray hallucinating Norman up on the wall was to assuage his own guilt at being unable to save him as he originally planned (something that, on his darker days, I think Ray himself would believe), but I prefer to view it as the final marker of his truly internalizing one of the deepest desires in his heart that he had locked away for so long. After living under that oppressive reality of dehumanization and exploitation and believing that there was nothing else for him, that this was all there was, that things would never get better and after everything he did up to that point, he didn’t deserve better, on top of Isabella throwing him completely off balance by shipping Norman out early and just being this incredibly conflicting and painful presence in his life, to have his siblings come together for this escape plan and without putting it explicitly in words convey “you’re worth saving, Ray, and we love you,” and that they gave him hope back…it fucks me up something fierce.
Was It a secret thing all along? Because something tells me that Ray always planned to kill himself and die in the manner he preferred rather than what was planned for him. (Not only to resolve his guilt, but also to give a final screw u to both Isabella and the demons. That this plan of his would have been enacted even if Norman was never shipped.
Shirai confirmed it took Ray about a year between making the deal with Isabella to conceiving of self-immolation being the linchpin for keeping her attention on him instead of a hypothetical Emma and Norman escaping:
(Mystic Code Book Chapter 1 Q&A)
Though we don't exactly when he was old enough and graduated to helping out in the kitchen to be able to start hoarding the lighter fluid under his bed, I think it's safe to say he'd been at it for a few years, in the same vein as acquiring the parts for the deactivator.
And yes, there is so much emotion steeped into his final speech to Emma as he's fully succumbed to the belief he deserves to die in the most excruciating manner possible (adore the nuance the anime adds to this scene [from this post]:)
(The little slump of his shoulders when he starts that second line, too. Granted, it takes a lot to undo years of such belief and self-loathing, but the resignation in his voice and body language is crushing.)
And then plagiarizing myself yet again from this post:
Ray’s retaliatory act of spite was threefold in its pettiness:
1. to Emma he verbally confirms he intends to deprive the demons of the feast they waited twelve years for
2. to Isabella the caretaker who sacrificed her charges so that she could live, he silently denies the means of prolonging her pitiful life
3. to Isabella his mother he proves that he’s better than her, that he isn’t afraid to die because dying as a human is better than whatever pathetic existence she had carved out for herself, ideally forcing her to look at him one last time with the same look of terror she had on her face the day she realized their biological connection
These are what I think he’d focus on in his moments of anger over the years, though he’d still primarily be guided by a selfless love for Emma and Norman. It’s a misplaced, manic bravado he’d whipped himself into that night, thinking his death would be “the best way” to both ensure the survival of his last most precious person in the world and atone for all the siblings he did nothing to save, but this is the headspace he’s in after a lifetime under such an oppressive existence.
Did Norman really agree with Ray’s insistence of leaving everyone behind? Or did he just say ok to acquiesce and reassure Ray (whom Norman might have realised had been spiraling for a long time)? Had Norman not been shipped would he have spent the two months trying to chip away at Ray’s walls/ give him hopes in bits and pieces and convince him? I don't believe that Norman agreed with Emma’s choices just because he liked her (even in ss1)
If everything had gone as originally planned, they would have left on November 8, 2045.
(Chapter 11 | S1 Episode 4; this is also super funny when you think of how part of the reason Norman is saying this is to get back at Ray for throwing him off balance with his betrayal by knocking him off balance. "Yeah‚ thought you wouldn't like that. Bitch." kdjfksdjh <3)
But regardless, Norman agreed with Ray from a pragmatic stance, in the sense he saw Ray's plan of just having the three of them, Don, and Gilda escaping as being more likely to succeed, but he actively chose to follow Emma's plan and strive for the ideal outcome. It's what underpins the whole "build a boat out of mud" speech.
From here:
But like episode 1 foreshadows with him silently chiding himself for only initially considering the possibility of him, her, and Ray escaping
that adorable pause of awe and wonderment hearkens back to this panel that is so very integral to his being:
(Chapter 14)
Even with each new development, she still remains true to her ideals, operating with kindness and understanding until proven without a shred of doubt that doing so is futile because that’s the world she wants to live in (e.g., speaking with Leuvis about avoiding a confrontation, but shifting gears as soon as he confirms his priority is amusement and conflict because it would jeopardize the lives of all the children at Goldy Pond to pursue it further). There's a deep admiration that's been present for years, and now that their reality has been permanently shifted, it's even stronger as the one constant he's never doubted.
However, he was deeply, deeply hurt at Ray's perceived betrayal, and for those last two weeks of October 2045, he was genuinely willing to toss Ray aside before deducing Ray's true motivations, at which point he's firmly slotted back into the "dear friend who must be saved at all costs" category of Norman's mind (I delve into this more here and here).
This post is already really link heavy, but if you're interested, I have an assorted list of tags I use on this blog, and I use FSS Chatter for my non-jokey original posts and responses, including:
• Ah yes, one of my favorite genres of baby full score trio pictures: Isabella being openly affectionate toward Emma and Norman in front of Ray while being hands off with him
• The little bow of reflection and smile Ray makes as he briefly soaks in the last morning Emma and Norman will be able to carry out their routine as usual
• "I think I could survive truly horrific circumstances if I had a crush on someone there"
• "If Ray and Norman couldn't kill Isabella because the alarm would go off when her heart stopped, why didn't they incapacitate her in another way?"
• Why I love the way the anime adapted the exchange between the full score trio in chapter 27 and chapter 28
• The follow-up post to ^
• Forever obsessed with and contemplating what’s going through Isabella and Ray's heads during this scene in S1e07
• "If I were greedy…" (Musings on Ray's line to Isabella in S1 episode 7)
• The inclusion of these two frames of the anime is everything to me actually
• My thoughts on Ray having purple eyes and how that would affect his relationship with his family
• What did Ray write in the note he uses as bait for Krone?
• What would an Isabella and Ray reconciliation look like
• Some more angsting over Isabella and Ray's relationship
• When you think about how these panels in chapter 159 are of Emma contemplating what makes a person themselves and whether losing one's memories constitutes death…
• My guess about what Norman says to Ayshe in chapter 160
• TPN 181 - WSJ Release vs Volume Release Differences
• I kind of wish the boxart for S2 was as detailed as S1's…but I do really love how angelic they look here
I also have some small guides regarding the light novels if you haven't already read them (here and here), and a tag specifically for Isabella and Ray's fraught and complicated relationship if you enjoy angsting over that.
Also also if you haven't seen it I highly recommend checking out the English TPN masterlist complied by @1000sunnygo it's an invaluable resource I use all the time for references.
Heyyy just read some of your bnha posts and now I am extremely curious to know... What are ur thoughts on Tomura and his entire character arc till now???
To be honest, I never particularly paid attention to Shigaraki and his storyline.
It's not that I didn't care for him, but a lot of the other LoV were just more compelling to me than him. Not to mention, Horikoshi loves dragging his feet when it comes to storytelling so by the time we got information about him I was kind of burnt out with Boku No Hero Academia.
So I have no feelings either way, but it does bother me that he is another abuse victim in a long line of abuse victims to be vilified (but at least Midoriya seems interested in saving him last time I checked).
