#andi mack asks

[multimetaverse]

there is dumb josh drama on Twitter @enbyriley has compiled a whole google doc on things they’re angry at him for. This is of little interest to us, but there are DM screenshots in there that strongly suggest Gary Marsh was in the way of andi mack. docs doot google doot com/document/d/1-qh1c5y7y2TglXQIKcNpTqISWmDZRoW3V472oU1wkRQ

Yeah it’s the most honest we’ve seen anyone from Andi Mack be about the censorship and restrictions they faced and those ultimately came from Gary Marsh. I really don’t care about this rehashed drama, some of it is serious stuff that I hope Josh has properly atoned for but a lot of it is pretty minor and some of these accusations seem very flimsy and don’t have any evidence to back them up. Obviously Josh should never have been so involved with the fandom across so many different platforms and I think to an extent he was failed by the adults in his life, I get that some of these instagram and discord group chats would have been private and hidden but his tumblr and twitter were public and open for everyone to see and someone whether his parents, his team, someone from the show, or someone from Disney should have intervened a long time ago. I think a lot of it has to do with not having the social network that an average kid would have which is part of a broader question of whether we as a society should be putting child actors into an adult world of working that denies them a normal childhood and forces them to grow up too fast.

It was always clear that Gary Marsh was hurting the show; the censorship was right there in front of our eyes and only got worse as the show went on. I am surprised that Josh would so openly admit it and that it didn’t leak until now. A lot of people in the fandom had a misconception that the show was cancelled because of canon Tyrus but in reality the show was cancelled before the writing of 3x10 while permission for canon Tyrus was only given during the writing of 3x21. 3x10 was filmed in August while 3x21 was filmed in December so for Disney the question wasn’t whether to cancel the show because they didn’t want to deal with a gay relationship but whether they were going to let the show end without a canon gay relationship. 

I don’t blame Josh for being frustrated and also not for wanting to work for Disney Channel again; after all it was his characters story line that was being hurt. With the exception of Bex’s aborted Gabriel story line in 2a, Gary pretty much let Terri and the writers do what they wanted: Bex’s teen pregnancy, Andi not knowing her who father was, racism, sexism, bullying, panic attacks, learning disabilities, arrests, a funeral, and financial issues. Terri wants a Jandi, Jamber, and Muffy kiss? Sure no problem. Cyrus kissing Iris twice? Go for it! Hell they had no problem doing a gun safety plot line, we got the word gun said on Disney Channel before the word gay. And there was a reason that Cyrus and TJ could talk about the gun but not about their own feelings. 

That’s not to say that our boy Gary is a virulent homophobe because he wouldn’t have let there be a gay character in the first place or let Cyrus come out but clearly he views two boys having feelings for each other as something far more controversial and risque than literally everything else the show tackled up to and including a gun plot line which Disney was happy to promote. Andi Mack was an important step forward for rep but there is no other rep on Disney Channel right now, not even brief Good Luck Charlie style rep, and again that’s all on Gary. 

Josh blames Gary Marsh for there not being a Tyrus kiss which is obviously correct. A lot of people swallowed Terri’s spin in her post finale Paste magazine interview but of course she was lying about her ability to have a Tyrus kiss approved and wasn’t going to bad mouth Disney in anyway and jeopardize her Lizzie McGuire reboot. We had three conversations between Cyrus and Buffy in 3x13, 3x15, and 3x21 where Cyrus talked about his feelings for TJ in a coded way that doesn’t make any sense in universe since he was able to talk about his crush on Jonah with Buffy in S2 and in 3x11 he used the word gay. Was it a creative choice to have Cyrus never openly discuss his feelings for TJ? Of course not, Terri just couldn’t get it approved and if she couldn’t even get an open discussion of feelings approved then she was never going to get a kiss.

There’s a lot that Terri and the writers can and should be blamed for in regards to the Tyrus story line especially in S3 but if they had foreseen the restrictions they’d face then they wouldn’t have had Cyrus kiss Iris twice, or go on group and individual dates with Iris, or come up with a mashup name for them, or have Cyrus introduce Iris as his girlfriend to Andi and Buffy. The bench scene was the best ending we were going to get for Tyrus with Gary’s restrictions and Terri’s writing but it wasn’t an ending that will age well. 

When I was talking about Seblos and Tyrus in my HSMTMTS 1x05 review I shared a snippet of an interview Gary Marsh did in 2008 regarding Ryan’s character being coded as gay in the HSM movies but not alowed to actually be gay:

Regarding the fact that there are boyfriend-girlfriend relationships in the HSM movies, Marsh interjected, “Yeah, but that’s not about sex,” as though having two boyfriends equals full-tilt boogie. And as to why there can be boyfriend and girlfriends but not two boyfriends, he could only note, “It’s just not something that we’ve ever had the opportunity to portray. It hasn’t been a place we’ve gone.”

Again I don’t think he’s personally homophobic and I don’t think he’d publicly make such a statement today but when the man in charge of Disney Channel equates a same sex relationship with sex then that’s not something he views as appropriate for children or for Disney Channel. It explains why it would be until 2014 until there was lgbtq rep on Disney with the lesbian moms on Good Luck Charlie, why there wouldn’t be an openly gay character until 2017 when Cyrus came out to Buffy, and why there wouldn’t a gay relationship until 2019 when Cyrus and TJ held hands and it explains why there’s no other rep on Disney Channel. It’s deeper issue than just one executive and it’s likely that Gary Marsh’s successor will hold somewhat similar views which means that Tyrus could be the only rep on Disney Channel and the only rep anywhere on Disney with younger kids played by actual kids for a while.

[multimetaverse]

Seems like Andi Mack isn't the only show that got butchered by Disney+ in terms of having episodes cut. At this point, I don't think it's an effort to remove the Ham episodes, it's just a mess. Besides, making an episode available in which the actor is featured does not mean they approve, condone or endorse his disgusting actions. Hell, every episode of Glee is widely available and that also featured an actor accused of the same crime. (And that's FOX, so Disney owns it too now, right?)

The thing is though anon is that if this was just a random mess then it’s extremely unlikely that all 19 Ham eps would just happen to be cut but they’re all gone so someone at Disney made sure they wouldn’t be on Disney +. I agree that incompetence is the cause of the 7 non Ham eps also being cut and the mislabeling of the S3 eps which is in line with the issues you’ve raised, I’ve also heard that Duck Tales is out of order. 

This isn’t so surprising looking back at Disney’s past actions as after Stoney was charged with a Federal offence back in January they then pulled all the re-runs of Ham eps and pulled those eps off of Disneynow (and I believe Ham had been removed from the mobile app texts soon after his arrest in December). But then Disney said in its own press release for Disney + back in the spring that seasons 1-3 of Andi Mack would be available which is why we thought the eps would all be available but if they were scared to air Ham eps on Disney Channel then it makes sense they’d also be afraid to air them on Disney +. And the missing S1 and S2 eps were also missing from the trial run they did for Disney + in the Netherlands so those cuts were there from the start and if they were all a mistake they could have been corrected by now. As for the Glee comparison, I think it’s because Glee was already over by the time Mark Salling was arrested and it was not a show for children airing on a children’s network, so there was much less risk of a backlash and Fox didn’t run the same risks of ‘tarnishing’ its brand as Disney must have thought it would if it didn’t take drastic action.

[multimetaverse]

Is Disney+ going to upload all the episodes of Andi Mack? I just checked this morning and they only have some episodes. (unless its due to that incident but even that the last few episodes of the series aren't there either)

They had said that all of seasons 1-3 would be on Disney + but I don’t think we’ll be seeing any of the Ham eps for a long time, if ever. But not all of the missing eps were Ham eps which makes this whole mess pretty confusing. Disney + is missing: eps 1x01-1x10, 2x01, 2x03, 2x04, 2x07, 2x08, 2x10, 2x12, 2x13/14, 2x20, 2x21, 2x23, 2x26, 3x01, 3x02, and 3x07. Out of those eps, Ham was never in: 1x03, 1x06, 1x09, 2x03, 2x07, 2x20, and 2x26. Unfortunately with these 26 missing eps the series has been gutted and is basically unwatchable especially for any potential new viewers.

There were only 5 out of 57 aired eps that had textual gay moments and 3 of those are gone: Cyrus coming out to Buffy in 2x01, Cyrus coming out to Andi in 2x13, and Cyrus telling Buffy his crush on Jonah was gone in 2x23. Most of the Chinese cultural rep is gone with the Lunar New Year in 2x02, Celia’s use of the I Ching in 2x12, and The Mid Autumn Festival in 3x02 being cut. A big chunk of the Jewish rep is also gone with Cyrus’ Bash Mitzvah being cut. Andi learning the truth about why Bex left home 13 years ago is gone, the start of Jonah’s panic attack story line is gone, much of TJ’s dyscalculia story line is gone, the setup for Jonah’s wish is gone, Buffy’s mom coming home is gone, most of the sign language plot is gone, the resolution to the gun plot is gone, Bex graduating as a cosmetician and Celia finally saying she’s proud of her is gone, Andi learning that Bex is actually her mom is gone, Bex and Andi moving out is gone, the first house party is gone, both disastrous double dates are gone, the Ciris and Jandi breakups are gone, Jonah singing Being Around You is gone, Buffy moving is gone, Marty leaving is gone, Bowie’s backstory with his dad is gone, TJ’s apology to Buffy is gone, the Bexie proposal and the Bexie engagement are gone. Amber, Gus, Marty, Iris, Bowie, TJ, and Walkers first appearances are all gone.

The big question mark is why the 7 non Ham eps have also been cut. It’s not like 2x07 had anything going on other than the Jandi and Muffy double date, the Muffy ‘breakup’ and Cyrus off with his silly film plot; there’s nothing edgy or controversial about that ep at all, it’s very much focused on the straight ships and Cyrus’ sexuality isn’t touched on at all. 2x20 was Andi’s Choice and again there’s nothing controversial at all in that ep, it’s largely focused on Andi having to decide between Jonah and Walker and Jonah singing Being Around You to win her over; you’d think it would be an ep that Disney would be happy to have on Disney +. Even 2x26 doesn’t have anything Disney might be spooked by since they already edited TJ’s lookback to make him look straight. And of course, they already aired all those eps on Disney Channel.

I know there have also been issues with the S3 lineup with It’s a Dilemna which was 3x03 being mistakenly labelled as 3x04 which affected the rest of the lineup until Mt. Rushmore or Less which was labelled as 3x14 rather than 3x13 but then Hammer Time which was 3x14 was labelled as 3x16 which affected the rest of the eps so We Were Here ended up being labelled as 3x22 which is just shoddy work, all they had to do was copy and paste from imdb or wikipedia. 

I know some people still have hope that Disney + might save the series somehow but this should be a wake up call. Disney clearly does not care about the show and with a huge chunk of the eps being cut the series is useless for Disney as it can’t attract new viewers and will struggle to keep all but the most dedicated fans. I wonder if Disney was ever serious about actually airing all of seasons 1-3 or if that was just a lie they put out to avoid any reminder of Stoney’s arrest. His trial is scheduled for December and his conviction is all but assured so hopefully his sentencing is soon after and this sordid affair can finally end. There’s no reason why Disney can’t add those 7 Ham free eps and fix the listings for S3 but who knows if they care enough to do so. As for the 19 Ham eps it seems like Disney is very afraid of a backlash from customers if they air eps with a soon to be convicted pedophile in them so I wouldn’t hold out hope for those eps being available on Disney + anytime soon which is a real shame as Andi Mack really did deserve better.

[rosedavid]

🍄

🍄: A character everyone seems to like that you dislike?

Ummm Jonah kind of? I don’t DISLIKE him, but he’s not my favorite. I still appreciate him, though!! Also, a lot of people like Reed for some reason, but to me I just like...eh? Don’t really care.

thanks for the ask!!

Send me Andi Mack Asks

[thirteen-beaxhes]

Dumbass Trio mix and match question here: who ate what as a kid between glue, boogers and crayons? (aka idk what to ask and I'm sorry it was the only thing to come to mind rn 🤧)

omg this is so creative eye- fkdbfjdjdjg

but okay lets do this

tj - crayons

marty - boogers

jonah - glue

needless to say it explains a lot

Bonus: (when talking to the ghc)

Andi & Cyrus: wHAT?!?!?!

Buffy: *sips milkshake* explains a lot

Send me asks and prompts!

[multimetaverse]

I still had some hope for andi mack s4/movie but the hsm s2 renewal makes me feel like there's no hope left what do you think?

I’ve always said that S4 was a pipe dream but I think you’re very right to abandon hope for a S4 with the pre-premiere renewal of HSM. It’s a simple matter of time and money. The Utah film commission has a set pool of $8.29 million every year to hand out as tax credits. S3 of Andi Mack got a $4.8 million credit spread out over 2 fiscal years, HSM  S1 got 3.7 million (recently revised up to $3.9 million) and the A girl pilot got $600 000. That’s why the Andi Mack credit had to be spread over two fiscal years because otherwise those three Disney productions alone would have blown the entire Utah tax credit budget. That’s also why Disney said that if they ever picked the A Girl up for series it would be filmed outside of Utah and a series on a different network, Dwight in Shining Armour, shifted production outside of Utah.

The math just does not add up. HSM S2 will likely have a similar or higher budget as S1 which was initially slated to be $14.7 million but ended up being $15.4 million and will likely get another tax credit of $3.9 million or more. And even if Utah decided to raise their tax credit limits that won’t solve the problem of Sofia Wylie being committed to filming HSM S2 for six months starting in early 2020. There’s no way they’d make more Andi Mack without Buffy Driscoll. Shazam 2 is slated to start filming around June 2020 so Asher would be busy for several months at least. Josh has an upcoming project of some sort that looks like it’s for HBO streaming and depending on whether it’s a movie or show or live action or animated that could keep him busy for a while and he’s planning to go to university next fall and it’s an open question of how long he’d be willing to defer starting school. 

So there’s no chance of Andi Mack S4 being filmed in Utah in 2020 or 2021 which leaves a movie. A movie would cost less than a full season and may be able to get a Utah tax credit without threatening the credits for HSM but a movie also wouldn’t need to necessarily take place in Shadyside so it could be filmed elsewhere. With Sofia and Asher’s schedule the earliest a movie could be filmed would be late 2020 though that’s entirely dependent on their schedules and also whether Lizzie McGuire S2 starts production in late 2020. If not then the next window of time would be mid to late 2021 after production ends on HSM S3 and Sofia is free again. Josh would almost certainly be in university then and if Cyrus isn’t in it then there’s no way TJ would be either. A het only movie would suit Disney just fine I’m sure but it would be a bitter ending for the fans who want more Andi Mack because they think they’ll get more Tyrus. So if you still want to campaign for a renewal then more power to you but be aware that you won’t be getting another season and any movie would be far off

[multimetaverse]

Wait the show changed Chinese New Years from 2017 to 2018? The timeline is messy lmao

Yes, originally the show was supposed to take place a little bit in the future, so it premiered in our world in April 2016 but the story started in September 2016 but later on the show decided to retcon it so that the show started in September 2017 in an attempt to keep ahead of our real world time which ultimately failed. That’s why instead of having the Year of the Rooster in 2x02 which would have been the correct lunar new year for 2017 they changed it to the Year of the Dog which was the correct one for 2018. The timeline is not as messy as people like to claim it is and there is a rough timeline for the series contained in the context clues in the dialogue as you can see when I lay it out in production order. Obviously we get scenes in 2b that should be taking place in late Spring clearly being filmed in Winter but that’s the price the show paid for filming on location in Utah and we just have to suspend our disbelief for that. 

1x01- Takes place September 28th 2017 on Andi’s 13th birthday. People get too hung up on the hospital bracelet dates, just spring it forward a year like the show did from 2003 to 2004

2x02- Takes place on February 16th 2018 as that was the date the lunar new year of the dog fell on.  So Cyrus coming out to Buffy happens in early to mid February

2x15 -  Takes place around April 20th 2018. We know this because it’s the day after Cyrus’ Bash Mitzvah and Buffy reveals she’s moving in ten days but Andi tries to get her to stay with Celia since there’s two months left in the school year and in America the school year typically ends around June 20th. So working backward we can tell that the Marty left sometime in March, the muffin scene was early April, and the swings and invitation scene were mid April shortly before the Bash Mitzvah.

2x21- Takes place around May 1st 2018 as Buffy moves as her 10 days are up. Now it wasn’t really ten days, we can tell by the number of weekends that it would have been closer to three weeks but that’s on the writers. The timeline get’s much messier after this which unsurprisingly correlates with the writing getting worse.

2x26- Takes place around June 20th as it’s almost the end of the school year. Buffy was supposed to be gone for two months but in the only Disney editing decision I agree with, they cut that title card from 2x22 when Buffy returned. That wouldn’t have really made sense since that would put her return in July after school is out but it is what it is. Jonah has already left for Frisbee camp in 2x25 despite school still being in session which I think was an artifact of Jonah still being a year older at this point and in some schools different grades may get out a little earlier.

3x01- Takes place around August 20th as it’s been two months since Jonah went off to camp for summer and the American school year starts around August 20th. Things get messier after this since technically 3x02 would have had to take place on September 24th 2018 as that’s the date of the mid autumn festival but there’s no way to make that work because of the info we get in 3x04. In the show’s timeline 3x02 followed quite closely after 3x01 as Andi is unsure whether to officially end things with Jonah despite trying to do so at the end of 3x01. 

3x04- Takes place around mid September 2018 as TJ mentions that it’s the third week of school.

3x07- Takes place around mid September 2018 as Buffy mentions she just founded the Spikes that same week and Andi refers to Jonah running off in 3x04 after she jokes about him liking someone new as something that happened the other day. Again it’s impossible for 3x04-07 to actually take place within a week given the number of weekends that occurred but we just have to roll with it.

3x12- Takes place in late October 2018. Jonah says that he learned a couple of months ago that his parents had to file for bankruptcy and that they would lose their house. Since he was gone all summer and 3x02 took place shortly after he got back we’re looking at 3x12 taking place two months after he got back in late August. 

The timeline is actually pretty smooth from here on out. 3x13 takes place immediately after 3x12 and costume day seems to be stand in for Halloween which fits with the timeline. 3x14 takes place right the weekend following costume day as Andi is just then telling her friends about the wedding, which was just weeks away according to Buffy, being cancelled. 3x15 seems to be the next weekend after that and 3x16 picks up the next weekend as the kids start their community service and then the rest of 3x16 and 3x17 take place in the same week or so of time. 

The cut 318 was almost certainly the next weekend after 3x17 ended as we know the Jamber breakup scene and Muffy friendzoning scene in 3x17 were re-shoots to replace scenes lost in 318. 3x19 must take place the school week after 318 as Buffy’s friends just then find out about her boot which Buffy didn’t have in 3x17. Buffy’s injury also makes for a nice way to track the timeline as we can see her foot get progressively worse over the weeks. 

3x19 must be late November as Andi says her SAVA application is due at the end of the month. 3x20 takes place shortly afterwards as Jonah mentions his family moving into an apartment in 3x19. And 3x21 must take place shortly after 3x20 as Bex and Bowie have their first dance as a married couple which puts the finale in early December 2018. Those pre finale texts make no sense as even stretching the time line ridiculously does not get 3x21 anywhere near the end of the school year and they deliberately put snow on the ground on the backyard set because it’s meant to take place in winter. 

So we have a rough time line for the show of September 28th 2017- early December 2018 from pilot to series finale. It’s not perfect and you can add or subtract a few weeks here or there but it works fairly well and follows what the writers told us in the dialogue.

[multimetaverse]

do you think cyrus or tj would have used the word gay in season 4?

If, and it’s a very big if, we ever heard the word gay being used again I think it would have been a one time thing and only used when Cyrus comes out to his parents. It really depends on whether TJ is in that ep or not. If TJ has tragically moved away early in S4 then Cyrus probably can come out to his parents by telling them he’s gay. But if Cyrus is actually allowed to date TJ on screen then it’s more likely that Cyrus just comes out to his parents by telling them he’s dating TJ. I don’t think Terri could get both Cyrus using the word gay again to come out to his parents and introducing TJ to his parents as his boyfriend approved; it would have been one or the other. We certainly wouldn’t have seen TJ coming out to his parents nor do I think we would have ever gotten TJ saying the word gay.