Hey there, just saw your response to the ask game and I'd actually really like to hear at least some of these rants if you feel like it.
I know I've seen a really long post of yours somewhere about monsters in fiction in general but would you care to share your thoughts about del Toro's movies specifically?
I recently watched The Shape of Water (avoided it for pretty long bc romance just isn't the kind of story I'm super interested in), surprising no one I did really enjoy IT but I imagine some of the symbolism flew over my head. The light/colour choices for example (I remember the whole movie being really green?) or the green cake that they keep eating. Something that I really liked was that they adressed different kinds of minorities and how they don't always immediatly jump to help each other just because they are also minorities.
My favourite del toro movie is Pan's Labyrinth though. I can't watch it all the time but it's just so!!! good!!! I know everyone and their Mom has already talked about the Pale Man but he really is that great. Do you have thoughts about the other creatures? The Faun is literally so cool and a much more layered character then he first appears. The little fairies, the huge frog, the mandrake...
And have you seen del Toro's Cabinet of Curiosities? To be honest, i kinda have mixed feelings about it.
Oh!! And Pinocchio of course. Loved the art style and the political message. The character design for Death was so beautiful as well. Somehow I didn't see it being talked about as much as I thought it deserved though? Like, everyone agreed that it was much better than the Disney version but somehow I just didn't really see any kind of in-depth insanity about it, or was that just me?
I feel you about talking about mythologies, there is so much to learn about different cultures and what they value, story telling as a medium, the way stories shift and grow with their cultures and how they mix with the stories of other cultures over centuries and even longer. How we can trace specific fundamental story elements and archetypes across the world all the way back to the first humans. It's just so cool!!!
So, feel free to rant :))
Hello, friend! Yesss, welcome to camp TSOW, it's a brilliant movie with a simialrly brilliant novel adaptation which so deliciously expands on what happens on the screen - examining Strickland's psyche was particularly an interesting if unsettling experience.
Del Toro is, as we all know, a massive lover of monsters, and it shows in how he writes them. I must confess that I'm not very good with most horror, so the only media touched by him I'm gonna mention will be "Pan's Labyrinth," "Pacific Rim" (co-writer & director of the first movie), "Megamind" (creative consultant), "Crimson Peak," "Pinnochio," both of his "Hellboy" movies, and "The Shape of Water."
All of this has prolly been said better elsewhere already, but hey, you asked me.
Pan's Lab: the Faun isn't antagonistic, despite looking odd. The real antagonist and "monster" is the human man, Capt. Vidal. As for the iconic Pale Man, there is numerous symbolism surrounding hi mwhich points at themes of capitalism, white supremacy, greed, etc. (seeing with his hands = what he can grasp, sitting at a table laden with food and not wanting anyone to touch it, paintings of him devouring children, etc. In fact, he is parallelled by Vidal in another scene, where he sits at the head of a banquet table and speaks of rationing food. Incidental Mythology has a neat article about it. In short: GDT uses his more fantastical looking monsters as sympathetic figures (giant monster frog excluded) but the real monsters, and monsters representing what's really evil in the world, are distinctly humanlike. I love this movie, LOVE the monster designs and the plot and symbolism and blurring the line between what's real and what is a fairy tale... but like you said, it's not a movie I can watch all the time because uh, it's a lot.
PacRim: here, the kaiju are, if I recall correctly, a metaphor for climate change given the fact that it's explicitly our fault they showed up: due to the changing climate, a planet which initially was hostile and uncomfortable to them became a perfect place to come back to, leading to extensive damage and misery for humankind and - more importantly - the necessity to come together in the face of the apocalypse and fight it as one... with giant robots if necessary.
Megamind: I could write up a whole 'nother post about Megamind, from examining two alien infants crashing on Earth and the cuter, more human looking, pale skinned baby finding a loving home and the "alien" looking baby landing in prison and being brutally picked on and made believe that he's inherently evil and broken no matter how hard he tries to blend in, to Hal - the everyday man, totally regular dude - turning out to be the real villain because of his entitlement and lack of respect towards others, greed and selfishness (mostly towards Roxanne but also, obviously, all the other people he hurt as Titan/Tighten), to Megsy's whole Bernard arc which made him realise that, actually, being evil isn't all there is, and that not being evil feels good - because he was finally being treated just as a regular guy. I've seen someone point out a possible inspiration by GDT's own experiences as a Mexican in America, which I'd need to read a little more into, but y'know, being treated as lesser because you came from elsewhere and look a little different...
Crimson Peak: just like in Pan's Lab, the real monsters are wolves in sheep's clothing (humans, initially nice but later showing their true colours) and the ghosts, interestingly, are victims trying to lead the protagonist towards the truth. The problem is that, uh, they look... freaky. Scary. Bad. Which of course scares the shit out of Edith and sends her running in the opposite direction and deeper into the antagonists' clutches. It is only when she looks past the gruesome looks and stops to listen to the victims & what they have to say that the puzzle comes together. Just because something looks weird and gross and scary, doesn't mean it's evil. The ghosts are hurting. They are trying to stop Edith from joining their ranks. They are trying to get justice.
Pinnochio: admittedly, I haven't dissected this movie as much as the others, but it's another example of Del Toro masterfully using fairy tales to comment on real world issues such as war and fascism (Pan's Lab does it brilliantly, as I'm sure you know.) I'm obsessed with this movie's visuals - Death, especially, like you said, and her entire realm were marvellous. I will say, however, that the ending bummed me the hell out even though I appreciated the message and what GDT did with it. It worked, it was great, but it's just not something I feel I can interact with for long due to personal reasons, so maybe that's why you don't see a lot of people discussing it. Memento mori hitting you over the head with a brick lmao. I have seen analysis posts, definitely, but in this particular case I was comfortable to just watch it once, appreciate it, and move on because haha, ow. That said, this movie does deserve to be talked about and analysed and praised to the heavens above because it's a WORK OF ART on so many levels.
Hellboy: I love these movies to death - part 1 once again whacks you over the head with "just because weird looking doesn't mean evil, Nazis bad, don't summon Lovecraftian horrors, and misfits find monsters lovable because they're both shunned for the same reasons and find comfort and recognition in each other." Part 2, meanwhile, highlights the harmful impact of humans on the environment (listen, I'm not saying Nuada was right, but humans DID break the treaty by chopping down forests and driving a fuckton of beings to extinction) as well as goes into Red's issues with being more similar to the beings he fights than the ones he protects - and who in return for that protection call him a freak. The magical world is fading, making room for the human world. And it sucks, but what can you do.
TSOW: oh bruh, what hasn't been said about this MASTERPIECE of monster/human romance? It's peak. It's EVERYTHING to me. It so perfectly encapsulates everything about the trope and pulls from Toro's past works (Vidal & Strickland parallels, Liz and Elisa parallels as outcasts due to something beyond their control finding solace in a nonhuman with similar traits, environmental themes, the backdrop of international conflict) and ELEVATES everything it puts in there. I implore you, read the novelisation. It has got to be one of the best books I've read in my LIFE.
Re: TSOW's colour symbolism, off the top of my head green (cars, the ads Giles paints, the PIE) represent modernity & the future encroaching on the present and not terribly welcome to do so, red represents. Blue symbolises water and the fish fella - afaik Elisa's apartment is always lit blue like it's meant to be underwater (but isn't, perhaps symbolising her subconscious longing for it and foreshadowing that this is where she belongs.) Red, meanwhile, was I think passion (Elisa's red shoes) and her shedding that red shoe in the final frames as she and her fishlad are floating in the water represents her letting go of the things tying her to the land - her love for shoes, maybe.
Also, this one is commonly talked about but I still love it: the entire protag cast is voiceless.
Elisa is mute, the fishlad can't speak the way humans can, Dmitri has to hide himself for his own safety, and Giles and Zelda - a gay man and a married black woman, respectively - were as voiceless and shunned back in the day as Elisa and her scaly beau. Really loved that touch.
Re: The Cabinet of Curiosities, it's on my list but I just KEEP GETTING DISTRACTED BY OTHER SHIT.