“I would like to ask you for your opinion regarding med schools outside of the U.S. For example, AUS, UK, or Caribbeans. How do you think they will affect residency programs and USMLE at the US? Thank you!”
When I was applying DO there were lots of premeds I had been in undergrad with, who thought I was stupid for doing so. Their grades could not get them into MD or DO school, and they felt soooo clever going to a Caribbean school instead. Because they really believed being a US-born IMG was better than DO.
Now, it’s 2015 and the MD and DO organizations are working together to combine into a single residency system, with a high possibility of a single match after the merger. It started as a way to shut-out both IMGs and DOs but now it’s just making it so any IMG (US born or not) is less desirable than any type of US-trained student.
So, no. Absolutely not. If you don’t get in to MD/DO school you should reapply the following year, after serious self-reflection and analysis of why you failed the first time around. You do NOT want to graduate from a foreign school, with the same loans as all of us, and even less chance of matching.
Applying DO is very similar to the applying to allopathic/MD school, although the AMCAS (MD) site has a lot of great info that applies to both types. First, start here: AMCAS - How Do I Apply? GO READ THAT AND COME BACK. SERIOUSLY. READ IT RIGHT NOW. Why? Because even if you really want to apply DO I think you should also try to apply MD. Lots of people get advised not to even try, and that seems stupid when you have to be a pretty darn interesting, well rounded and dedicated person to go the DO route. These days, lots of MD schools want those same candidates.
Okay, you came back. It’s probably been close to 2 hours. That site has a lot of information. So, tips from around the world, for medicine in general, include this guideline that incorporates when and what to do as you go through the process - AACOM has a DO specific guide. And kevinMD has a list of 7 tips for you, too.
Research schools. Start by picking a region (East Coast) and narrowing down to a few states to start (NJ, NY, PA) and look at every single medical school in those states. You can add more states as you finish one, but this method worked best for me. There’s also some guides on AMCAS like How Do I... Decide Where to Apply? and the list of the 30 DO colleges (42 campuses) with convenient map.
Ignore US news, it’s a load of BS. Also, ignore SDN.
Both application cycles open in May, and you submit the first week of June, please submit IN THE FIRST WEEK. If you’re applying in 2015 that means you now have 2 months to write your personal statement and get your letters. Get to work.
To go the DO route you really, really should shadow a DO. Few schools actually accept a non-DO letter unless you are from a region with few/no DOs. Contact your state osteopathic association, it’s the quickest way to find someone.
The other key difference is the personal statement length, and focus. So get ready to write two very different essays. Have you started your essay yet? You might want to start now. Get of Tumblr. ;)
You might want to join the pre-med groups for MD/DO. Pre-SOMA is the DO one, I can’t remember what the MD ones are.
Consider a health professions advisor through the NAAHP. I had a great pre-med advising team at my undergrad, but many students do NOT. NAAHP provides volunteer advising to those who’s campus lacks one, but you need to check their list first.
Here’s the AACOMAS site where you’ll start filling in your info in May.
It’s a lot of stuff to go through, and you can see why you can’t just switch to applying DO when you get to November and have no MD interviews.
What's your opinion on the newly announced NSU MD COM?
Whatever? Having both MD and DO campuses are great (see MSUCOM for proof) and maybe NSU’s allopathic school will take students who are DO quality (more women, more brown skin, more people of all color who come from the low end of the economic ladder).
But the reason for it? Nova claims they’re opening a second school to meet market demand, and that’s great. EXCEPT we already have too many schools, graduating more students then there are residency spots. This year went on record as being pretty bad, with a LOT of unmatched students. The numbers quoted are really variable, from 2% to 6%. The data that is readily available shows much more scary numbers.
TL;DR - We don’t have enough residencies for the US-trained DOs and MDs combined, let alone for US-resident IMGs or non-resident IMGs. It’s why the DO and MD entities are working on a combined Match, because as one powerful voice they may be able to fight for increased residencies.
AOA/DO match is complicated by how many don’t participate so they can just go into the ACGME match (47.3% did that this year), but of those that participated there were still 12.2% not matched.
That number is misleading because many DO students take part in both matches, going for high competition specialities in the DO match and when they don’t match just sliding on into the MD match, either for the same specialty at a less competitive location, or going into a primary care field as their “back up” - but I can’t find that data anywhere.
ACGME match had 41334 applicants for 30212 spots (MD, DO and IMG), That’s 11,122 unmatched, or 26.9% unmatched. Or is it? We don’t know how many of those unmatched are IMGs. Don’t know how many were DOs who changed their mind and took part in the DO scramble rather than wait for the MD match. Don’t know how many of them matched in the SOAP afterwards. Perhaps because those numbers are also scary.
The actual stories of not matching, especially in my position as a soon-to-be fourth year, are TERRIFYING.
“The number of residency positions is growing by less than 1% a year while the number of medical students is growing by almost 2%,” - hello, MAJOR FREAKING PROBLEM
Messages from people going through the SOAP process 2015
The ACGME has a page on what to do about your loans If you Don’t Match. There’s a need for this, and that’s scary and horrible.
See the best and worst comments ever on this article that’s not worth reading.
She didn’t match into pediatrics, and she thinks there’s 3 reasons why
Another look at the SOAP and Match, more from an IMG perspective
Pre-meds, medical students, current residents and doctors should all be fighting for MORE RESIDENCY spots, because we NEED them more than we need any other issue that the AMA and AOA seem hell bent on focusing on these days.
Heyo so I have a question. I have had depression most of my life. This depression affects my motivation levels. On top of this, my parents engrained in me that I was this top notch honor student when really I'm just average at best. Do you think that I could make it in medical school? I'm really interested in surgery but also in psychiatry. But I'm worried that my motivation levels will make going to med school or even applying a huge waste of time and money. I don't have study skills BC my highschool was crap. My first year of college I failed my bio class because I didn't have the motivation to go to class. I'm on medication and seeing a therapist for my depression but I still don't have any motivation. If I do, it comes In short bursts. I'm so frustrated at myself and I'm thinking that maybe I should just give up and try an easier path. What do you think? Sorry this was so long, thanks!!
From my understanding, motivation is something that is supposed to come back first with successful Rx treatment of depression. Have you talked with your therapist about this issue and discovered why you lack motivation? You failed a class and you say it’s due to motivation, but you didn’t even go to class. Did you study? Did go to other classes? Did you do well in everything except biology?
Your questions are screaming at me not so much about motivation, but about self doubt and low self esteem. Your parents probably told you that are smart, and every time you did well in school praised your intelligence and how smart you were... but not how hard it was for you to get those grades. So you doubt yourself. You feel like a fraud and you think “If I struggled so much to get here there’s no way I can get further.”
Honestly, many people who get into medical school are “average at best” but we all have something that pushes us to soldier on. We don’t quit when things are hard, many of us get mad and decide “Oh, I’ll show them.” Or we view each failure as an obstacle to be overcome. We’re stubborn as heck, and honestly a little mentally off, because the things we put ourselves through to get through are not “normal.”
So, what do I think? I think you need to take time for you. I believe that medical school is not intellectually difficult, but emotionally draining and worsens both physical and mental medical conditions. You need to make sure you’re ready for it, and that you actually want it.
Something about the upcoming equinox has Medblr aflutter, because I have a ton of new asks today. Promise to put responses up this weekend, but I have an important date with a couch and a bowl of ramen and COMBANK tonight.
I have a few asks that are kind of old, and I'm just not responding because I'd like to give you the time/effort of thinking as I type. You're not being ignored, I'm just busy busy this month. :)
First, accept that your study schedule is going to be an ever-changing fluid thing. You don't even know how much they'll be throwing at you, so you can't plan for it. One thing I struggled with was the desire to finish things. If you focus on 3 of 10 subjects, and finish those 3, you feel good. But that means you didn't get a look at 70% of the material. That is really, really bad. And if you didn't even finish those 3 it is the WORST feeling.
So, instead of super specific goals, simplify. Our classes rarely went over an hour, so I had a 60 minute rule. Study something for 20-30 minutes and then I had to switch lectures, every 60 minutes I got a 10 minute dance to something on YouTube break. It's awful at first. But once I started doing that I HAD to become more efficient.
Gave myself time at the END of each night to power skim the next day's lectures, 5 minutes per.
Go to class with notes printed out. Highlight key points, write in info they should have had on powerpoint.
At home, start lectures in reverse order, since the last one's freshest in my brain.
Easier topics, stuff I was better at got only 20 mins. Tougher stuff got a whole 30, but there's only so much time per day.
Many, many days this got shifted to a 10&20 minute version. Why? Because even like this you will still get behind. There's just too much data.
Weekend is catch up time. Keep the time limit, rotate through those lectures. But, if you have a test coming up the weekend is for test prep.
That was during an ideal week. Most of my weeks were NOT ideal. Labs, quizzes, OMT practicals, clinical skills practicals, required shadowing, club events and small social emergencies (you do need to feel human once in a while) throw this off. And, of course, eventually I quit attending several professors lectures in favor of learning on my own. You will adapt. You'll be changing your system and re-scheduling whenever you start a new course, after every exam, sometimes after every quiz.
Eventually you'll figure out what keeps you sane and let's you do well enough for you (whether that is As, Bs or bare-minimum to pass)
