#asoiafgroupread

[atopvisenyashill]

what’s interesting about jonsam is they both grow up with immense privilege but within that privilege they are the outcasts.

jon has that great line in the arya chapter about how girls get the arms but not the swords, bastards get the swords but not the arms. right after, jon gets left behind with the babies & the girls. bastard boys, very much unlike other true born boys, have to marry into wealth & a family name - they are not guaranteed the continued privilege, if they are given it at all (many, most i would argue, wind up like gendry & mya). jon is the picture perfect northern young man - he has the northern look, he’s good with a sword, he knows his letters, he’s serious but snarky, he’s good with other people when he’s not being a dickhead. but he cannot be a true northern lord because he is a bastard. jon does what a lot of others Not Allowed do - if i just be the best, it will be basically the same, i’ll prove myself worthy. i’m not the first person to talk about the forcefem daughterson nature of male noble bastards so let’s move on.

SAM. sam is not a man. not by reacher standards, not by northern ones, not by high born ones, not by lowborn ones. he’s a disgrace to his gender, an affront to masculinity. he is soft and learned and sweet and completely unsuited to the rigid masculinity of westeros, of terros itself. whereas jon wants to fit into the westerosi norm but isn’t allowed, sam very much does not care for it and its why people are so hostile. he’s sort of like the parallel of arya - well im not good at it and i dont like it so im gonna do something else. he’s down on himself and he makes no effort to change this about himself because he knows its beyond him. and he also knows people want him dead for it. i think this is why he doesn't even try to conform - it's not just the fear of Not Being A Real Man (which is what jon is hung up on) but the fear that someone is going to kill him one of these days for not being a real man. his father says it, chett says it, alliser says it - he is so soft he should be killed. he's an abomination like the perfumed boys victarion has killed. but being born into wealth is the reason he can keep surviving because the skills like maths & reading are taught to all noble boys - what made him soft becomes a lifeline at the wall.

And both of them point out to each other that all sorts are needed for the group to thrive. They make each other better, naturally, by just being around each other. Sam calms Jon down when he's mad about not being a ranger and Jon feels shame; Jon is the reason Sam is allowed to make his vows at all. And they both know it, they both feel that kinship of being outside on the inside - it's why they swear their vows together before the heart tree. Sam's father's gods never helped him - but Jon's have because they gave him Jon!

[esther-dot]

Bran I begins with the King’s justice, a sword and execution, but it ends with discovering the direwolves, and there begins the story of Jon’s compassion & selflessness when it comes to the Starks.

Beneath Ned’s role as executioner, of the man of the Night’s Watch and then later, Lady, roles he is entrusted to do, even if he personally objects (at least in Lady’s case), we have the story of his compassion as well. His love for Lyanna that had him committing treason and secreting the son of a man who played a role in the death of his father, his brother, and his sister, not to mention, countless lives lost in the war, away to safety. He chose the life of the innocent child, knowing the danger, and that choice (although not yet technically revealed to us) is rewarded. Ned’s choice saved Jon, Jon’s selflessness saved the direwolves, and within the span of a few chapters, those direwolves jump to protect Bran and Arya.

Although that image of the giant sword, bloodstained snow, and a bouncing head are sometimes what is circulated as the idea of “justice,” from the beginning, compassion, protecting the helpless, are being presented as the true matter at hand, the essential factor, even in the cruel world the characters live.

And even knowing all the suffering that will come for the Starks, the quick way Jon’s moment of selflessness is narratively rewarded, not just with Ghost but protecting the Stark kids, gives us a sense of how his (& Ned’s) choices will manifest in the future for House Stark.

[chena-h]

So, like, we agree there's something the Starks are hiding in the crypts, right?

Like, I'm trying to give GRRM some credit and say that he's going for something more substantial than the "haunted indian burial ground" trope.

I think I need some more time to think about what they could be hiding, though.

Whatever it is, it definitely feels tied to The Others (and the COTF, possibly) and their displacement from the North to the land beyond The Wall by the First Men.

[atopvisenyashill]

this is why bran is her favorite btw

[esther-dot]

You know, I do think this is one of those wink, wink moments to the audience. As in, we read it as strictly about the scenario on the page, Lysa’s message, and then when you reread these early chapters with something like R+L=J in mind, see things through that “lens” which makes much of what we read take on a whole new meaning.

Ned having a bastard, placing Jon in a position to suffer the ostracism that arises from it is a sort of “false bottom” in AGOT and upon the revelation of R+L=J, we’ll realize, being known as Ned’s bastard saved his life.

So many moments become poignant on a reread, more meaningful with that lens.

The haunting “Promise me, Ned” is no longer a dying woman’s request to be buried in the North with her father and brother, it’s the desperate plea of a mother to save her son.

[atopvisenyashill]

there was a lot of "aerion was right to beat the shit out of tanselle" talk when the episode aired, and definitely what she was doing was risky as baelor points out. but this ~lowkey treason~ happens all the time and kinder rulers overlook it. see tyrion:

When the wine was poured, Lord Gyles rose to lift a cup to the king, and Ser Balon Swann was heard to remark, ‘We’ll need three cups for that.’ Many laughed …” Tyrion raised a hand. “Enough. Ser Balon made a jest. I am not interested in treasonous table talk, Lord Varys.”

it's ridiculous to go after people for dumb shit. but let's note who does go after people for dumb shit:

The last case was a plump tavern singer, accused of making a song that ridiculed the late King Robert. Joff commanded them to fetch his woodharp and ordered him to perform the song for the court. The singer wept and swore he would never sing that song again, but the king insisted. It was sort of a funny song, all about Robert fighting with a pig. The pig was the boar who'd killed him, Sansa knew, but in some verses it almost sounded as if he were singing about the queen. When the song was done, Joffrey announced that he'd decided to be merciful. The singer could keep either his fingers or his tongue. He would have a day to make his choice.

wow it's almost as if.....aerion was overreacting bc he's a shitty little spoiled sadist who takes offense at a show for children just like the other main series shitty little spoiled sadist who takes offense at goofy shit. imagine that!

[atopvisenyashill]

stannis knows he’s disliked, he could have teamed UP with the much more liked renly & robb but he actively ignores them until they both declare themselves king & it’s bc he’s a bitter betty

[atopvisenyashill]

Later, Maester Luwin built a little pottery boy and dressed him in Bran’s clothes and flung him off the wall into the yard below, to demonstrate what would happen to Bran if he fell. That had been fun, but afterward Bran just looked at the maester and said, “I’m not made of clay. And anyhow, I never fall.”

this is as funny as sansa’s “i’ve just remembered i can’t leave im going to marry joffrey” the starklings should start a traveling comedy troupe