#avro arrow

[usafphantom2]

Avro Canada CF-105 Arrow delta-winged interceptor with potential for M2.0 speeds at altitudes surpassing 50,000’ designed as Royal Canadian Air Force's principal interceptor throughout 1960s and subsequent years but cancelled in controversial decision.

credit Aviation Titan

@CcibChris via X

[weatheryear]

VentureStar

Back when I was young, the Space Age was the Future, not the Past.

Literally. For the record, the Space Age is 1950's to 1990's.

After the Space Age, we got the Information Age, with the advent of the Internet.

And the abandonment of Space Travel. They lined up really well.

The start of the Space Age was the fallout of WWII. During WWII, Germany has the most advanced Rocketry programme in the world. Wernher von Braun was the father of modern Rocketry. He wanted to go to the moon. The Nazis agreed to fund him, but only if they got to point the rockets at England.

At the end of WWII, both the US and Soviet Union rushed to lay claim to the German intelligencia, and the US has the great power or promising the US instead of Soviet Russia. Soviet Russia was... without getting into it too much, they declared war on farmers, starved to death, and then put an insane idiot in charge of science, and anyone that challenged him was shot.

The second major event was the cancellation of the CF-105 Arrow by A. V. Roe Canada. This was a fighter/interceptor that would be better for Canadian requirements than any existing fighter. And it was cancelled in 1959. A consequence of the cancellation was the destruction of 1/3 of Canada's industrial sector. Guess where they went?

So, the US got a second wave of the best engineers in the world.

Early rocketry was... extremely, extremely crude by modern standards, or should I say artisanal? Modern rocketry has extremely precise computer modelling, which is then manufactured as close to the computer models as possible. Back in the day, rocketry was all made by hand, with everything being interactive. This means that when the knowledge is lost, it's lost forever. All of the rockets used during the Space Age are now lost technology.

First off, what makes a rocket? As distinct from a jet? Rockets have their own oxidizing agent. Jets used the natural oxygen in the atmosphere.

Different atmospheric pressures needed different nozzles. What they came up with was the Multistage Rocket. The rocket was built in several separate stages that were stacked together. The bottom stage would burn until it burns out, and then it was dropped. This would allow the next stage to have a nozzle for it's level, while also dramatically reducing the weight of the following sections.

This worked, and worked well, but this meant millions of dollars of hardware was just cast off every - single - launch.

There was a dream, single-stage to orbit spaceplanes. Spaceplanes could - glide - back to Earth, allowing the entire craft to be reused.

They didn't quite get there, but the Space Shuttle was built in four sections.

The Space Shuttle itself, a colossal fuel tank (hydrogen + oxygen, which is extremely energy dense, and yes, technically makes the space shuttle a steam engine). Then two solid fuel rocket boosters were added. This wasn't perfect, but it was a generational improvement over previous rockets.

We also got the Canadarm, because Canada designed the arm used to maneuver pretty much everything in space.

Of course, the Space Shuttle was never meant to last forever. The forces involved are incredible. And they weren't building a new ship every - single time.

So, they worked on the replacement for the shuttle, the VentureStar. The VentureStar used aerospike engines, these are engines that use the atmospheric pressure to control the plume size, effectively creating auto-adjusting rocket nozzles. With this, there was no longer a necessity to use multiple stages. The entire thing could work as a single-stage to orbit space plane that runs on hydrogen and oxygen.

Making them more environmentally friendly than electric cars.

So, what happened to the VentureStar? We never saw them, so, they didn't work?

Not in the least. They had fully functional, somewhat smaller scale test models making suborbital flights. Suborbital is a ship that reaches space, but doesn't reach a stable orbit, and as such, will inevitably plummet back to Holy Terra. This means that it suffered all of the stresses of the flight, without the risk of it just sailing off to space.

What happened, was much like the Arrow, it was simply - cancelled.

And then space shuttles started blowing up. Well, not the shuttles themselves, but their booster rockets. Still, killed everyone.

So, how did the US react to this? Find another way to get to space?

yes and no. The US - hitchhiked - with Russia. And, until SpaceX, this was the primary way the US got to space.

[redsea8me]

ouugghhh… oh Avro Arrow… Avro Arrow you’ll always be famous… you’ll always be famous to me…

[kazanskys-mitchell]

i also posted this with an ask but i feel like it’s not showing up anywhere so here’s the avro arrow in green, requested by @stop-that-fool 💚

this was so fun to draw and she’s SO pretty <3

[stopthatfool]

Thinking about the avro arrow. Thinking about the avro arrow and getting sad. Thinking about her and mourning her. Thinking about her and getting sad.

[creepingintheivy]

Being a Canadian, I've long been curious about the Avro Aero and the almost mythological claims about how advanced an aircraft it was. Do you know much about the history of this plane?

As far as I can tell, there is no Avro aircraft named Aero, but I think you are asking about the Avro Arrow. I knew of this plane but I did not know the full details so I did a little research.

The Arrow was going to be a third-generation fighter with exceptional capabilities, and the prototype seemed to deliver on these promises. It was going to be one of, if not the, fastest and most advanced interceptor of the age. Unfortunately because of the massive cost required to produce, test, and build these aircraft, the Canadian Prime Minister cancelled the project without warning. In response, Avro Canada told its engineers to burn the blueprints and they had the prototypes systematically destroyed before fully going under. Only one full size Arrow still exists.

There is a striking resemblance to heroic age hubris in the story, of Canada, watching the US and Russia finance and build record breaking aircraft at an astonishing speed, and wanting one of their own; of Avro Canada, being told to create an aircraft that had never seen its like, and delivering on that promise. But it all came down to money, like many things do, and Canada at the time did not have the deep pockets of the US, and thus the Arrow now lives in that exalted space of the great “what if’s” of history.

[lonestarflight]

Size comparison of the Lockheed YF-12A, Convair B-58 Hustler, North American XF-108 Rapier, Avro Arrow, Fairway Delta 3, and a French Mach 3 design.

source

[warsofasoiaf]

I've read your criticisms of things like German and Soviet tanks in WW2 recently and it got me thinking....Are you familiar with the Canadian jet project the Avro Arrow that was cancelled? Its regarded in Canada as a "what could have been" for us, but I'm curious if you have a more sobering take on its abilities in a combat role.

I'm familiar with it. For those who aren't familiar, the Avro Arrow was a proposed Canadian high-speed interceptor that first flew in 1958 and was cancelled in 1959. It's mission was simple, in the event of a nuclear war the Arrow would intercept high-altitude strategic bombers (the method by which to deliver nuclear bombs) and destroy them before they could harm the Canadian homeland. It had quite promising specs for an interceptor, testing had indicated that using the Orenda Iroquois engines it could fly at Mach 2 for a sustained period of time.

However, new missile technologies were quickly rendering the high-speed interceptor obsolete. The first were surface-to-air missiles, which were becoming effective by the mid-to-late 50's. SAM's were capable of destroying bombers at a fraction of the cost of interceptors. The second were ballistic missiles, which could deliver a nuclear payload that could not be intercepted with a fixed-wing interception craft. There was a third, opposite problem with the Arrow's air-to-air missile, which required active radar homing that just wasn't feasible. The Iroquois engine too, didn't have the kinks worked out before the project was cancelled. Interceptors themselves were cancelled in the West, not just the Arrow. The Soviet Union kept the interceptor, the most famous of which was the MiG-25 (another plane much mythologized). Only the US F-106 Delta Dart remained in service, but in limited numbers, and interception missions were largely folded into the purview of the F-15 and F-16.

Thanks for the question, Anon. Sorry to burst the dreams of many a Canadian aviation enthusiast.

SomethingLikeALawyer, Hand of the King