#bee talkz

[nothbee]

A lot of people use rabbit/wolf symbolism with Ivan/andrew as a shorthand for their relationship and the sort of abuse that happens to it. This is my case that I think that symbolism should be swapped and its waay cooler that way.

Ivan is scrawny, scrappy, caught up in his own head. His main form of abuse is psychological and emotional before physicality comes into it directly. Its never a focus on sheer force with Ivan, its always through tools (the axe, emotional, housing situation) that he exerts will. Also semi-because Ivan believes himself incapable of direct acts and always projects those away from himself (Shadowed Ivan + The Tumor).

Andrew- while I guess by word-of-god is stated to be twink-ish, is commonly shown on the bigger end and that makes way more sense to me. He has a history of getting into fights and being hotheaded. It makes sense that once he escapes his parental-abuse situation, he’d want to move past that, he doesn’t have to prove himself anymore or do stupid things to get control of his life. He doesn’t want to be a stereotype, he doesn’t need to give people more reasons to hate him. And y’know Ivan saw him for more than all of that, Ivan saw him for a good kind person, and he stuck with Andrew through all of his worst. That matters a lot. Andrew didn’t need to worry about any of that assumption or expectation or pressure with Ivan.

And if you keep in mind that the story of “Bad Things” is already not the stereotypical abuse case (Not explicitly romantic, between two men, emotional before physical), the upheaval of predator to prey role feels natural. If you placed this in a real world scummy situation, you’d get people asking Andrew why didn’t he just fight back, because hes a wolf. Hes strong, he’s capable, he can be independent, why didn’t he just leave? And Ivan, scrawny, dependent, only a rabbit, can only be blamed for being allowed to do what he did.

Andrew felt safe, he was supposed to feel safe. There was a brief period where those two were together and happy before it got worse. There is no world where Andrew wanted to hurt Ivan more than out of frustration or retaliation or fear- because anything else, or even from those emotions, is proof he is a wolf. And everyone was right.

I don’t think Ivan grasps this part of things. He idolizes Andrew too much to imagine him out of control of himself- Ivan barely knew what to do when they left Andrew’s parent’s house. The idea of Andrew retaliating isn’t…real. Ivan is acting in necessary ways to keep Andrew happy and safe and his and listening, and so that they can stay together and Ivan can have what Andrew has. Because theres a large part of Ivan that wants to be Andrew. Andrew couldve been the kid his father wanted. But Ivan can never live up to expectation and so of course its easier to stick by a wolfs side. Because nobody expects anything from a rabbit. Good, or bad.

[dustymeadows]

etu. blgeg

[mcluskyism]

I could literally change my url any second and nothing is stopping me

[dustymeadows]

Ive also been on a ..cross..mare (?) kick?

I find the idea Nightmare has to adjust to take care of all his deeply deeply mentally ill subjects, and when (in some interpretations-) Cross joins the pantheon, Nightmare has to poke in a few new ways to get him to settle down.

I don’t imagine it overly patronizing or like dadmare stuff, its more like he finds taking care of mortals mental health a natural unavoidable byproduct of using them as pawns. His genuine care for them is just a happy accident.

I also think Cross and Killer have a totally lopsided rivalry. Killer is just being funny and annoying to the new guy and Cross is brooding about his place in the pantheon and beating killer with hammers and way overblowing any perceived rivalry.

And this is relevant because they’re both characters Nightmare… is… fond of? I’m unsure of that phrasing. Killer is Nightmare’s trusted right hand, when Killer leaves Nightmare trusts him to return. Cross is new and Nightmares current pet project thats so stubborn and stupid and eager and also neurotic that Nightmare keeps finding himself in odd situations trying to accommodate him. Cross sort of worries that he is invading Killer’s space in Nightmare’s life but this is a worry Only Cross Has. Killer sees them in TOTALLY different catagories.

[dustymeadows]

[nothbee]

Cracks knuckles.

So. 7n7 and Noli.

I’m about to talk A Lot about my take on things.

Theres been a lore rework so the college buddies isn’t real but I’m inclined to discard that all anyway. + most people only ever point to the pizza place as the most hacking theyve ever done which frankly makes them sound really lame. We all know pizza place is the most played roblox game, front page shit, but in universe thats just a pizza place guys??

Anyway. I want more *suspense* than 7n7 just immediately giving up hacking right after a vague voidstar incident to raise a kid. Would you cleanly cut off the time of your life you felt the most powerful? If you were morally corrupt would you even automatically assume turning your life around would be what you need to safely raise a kid? No! 7n7 *struggles*. He doesn’t have the money? Steal it, make it, who cares. He stops his big showy hacking because he realizes if he gets caught, nobody will be there for c00lkkidd. And hes grown up a little and being able to look back on it all is very sobering.

In my interp, Noli and 7n7 just drift apart when 7n7 has a kid. I don’t think they interacted much outside of being hacking buddies and neither of them thought they needed to. To them, that was their real identity. I think it actually takes a bit for Noli to *find* 7n7.

I think c00lkidd is like 3 when Noli approaches about the voidstar. Which is my big switch-up compared to everyone else. 7n7 agrees to help Noli steal the Voidstar and sees this as his final sendoff of the hacker persona he made. Noli sees it as the beginning.

Nolis interesting. Because I don’t like Either Route people present. College buddies? Feels too weightless, why do i care? All powerful god? Feels too *much*, why does he care about some hacker.

So i pin Noli as more of a fledgling demigod. Created out of scrap code or something, no other life to turn to, but not powerful enough to really take the reins. It gives more incentive for him to latch onto 7n7 and for him to be bumbling around trying to find sources of unimaginable power.

Skipping to Forsaken times, i actually have (leans over and checks document) like 4k of words written for a longfic of Noli and 7n7 I’m just too lazy to make it anything more than an outline. So. Anyway.

7n7 and Noli compliment eachother here. They both make you doubt if you’re seeing the real them, they both have their gui/void star, they just went down such different paths. People write 7n7 as such a wet dog suck-up but I think its more complicated than that, he might’ve learned gritting his teeth and baring it caught more flies than vinegar, but that doesn’t mean that *is him*. This is a grown man with a capacity for insane violence that lost his kid and is being murdered by them every other day, and also his situationships there. The person 7n7 shows the other survivors is very likely Purposely a sanded down safe version. He is showing them a clone of what he thinks they want to see.

Noli already has the mask symbolism, the eldritch insanity shit, it all speaks for itself well and I don’t know how to add onto it lol. Except that Noli seems very jovial but it’s definitely a cover for severe anger issues and mood swings, like even before he was hired to massacre people in a looping game. I think Noli gets past this by straight up gaslighting people because its whats worked for him. I didn’t yell at you for no reason I just speak loud, Im not the kind of guy to get mad, ect ect. He makes you doubt your perception of events.

Also: no shade to anyone that writes it, but survivor/killer romance on the field feels. Weird. Love may bloom there but its not being acted upon there. Its too high stress too public and not enough time. I think a lot of survivor/killer needs a 3rd party space for them to sneak off to or something. Anyway so I’ve written 4k of-

[dustymeadows]

Okay as you can tell by my reblog spree i do kinda like the mike guys. Not an abnormal amount theyre just cute. But now im thinking-

Bc ‘Battat is kept up constantly theorizing about mike’ feels Flat. Like, it feels silly. Whats the genuine extent you could take this in an in-world setting.

Would it be trying to follow Mike’s history of employment? Tracking down every employee tennas had? Tracking down Tenna’s business buddies? Like really I can see how quickly the mike stuff could become a cover-up for learning more in-depth about Spamton and Tenna and then the phone.

Dark worlds can’t interact with eachother but in my hypothetical fantasy land where theyre all just real guys, it’d be crazy making them go to the cyberworld…

Theres a vague semblance of storyline in my brain. Just bc im Unsatisfied with ‘crazy theorist’

[dustymeadows]

I should smooth out what the situation is between nightmare and his men

I don’t quite think its anything abusive, but you can’t put 4 mentally ill men in the same building and expect good situations to come from it you know. So its not exactly all needs are perfectly met either

This is all coloured by my personal idea Nightmare would not replace his men- its just generally inefficient and troublesome and honestly emotionally taxing. And terrible for loyalty. Nightmare went through so much shit himself feeling like second-best, expendable, like nobody would blink an eye if he was gone, and as much as he’d want to position himself like the people that hurt him in order to feel powerful I think the moment he felt like his brother (or how he believed his brother thought of him) he’d recoil like touching a hot stove.

Anyway my order of joining I think would be Killer, Dust, Horror, Cross (if applicable)

I like Killer being first because it means all of the shit NM had to figure out? He had to do with Killer. Creates a really complicated relationship thats closer than Nightmare’d like to admit. Killer’d get to see Nightmare go from someone floundering trying to pretend he knows how mortals work to sssort of having it more together by the time Dust is picked up. Killer doesn’t have a positive opinion of Nightmare but he still likes NM yknow? Out of everyone, Killer sees Nightmare the most falliable. The most “human”. Just as prone to faults in judgement as everyone else. Killer trusts Nightmare only as much as Nightmare will trust Killer. Which puts them into fun seesaws

Dust doesnt really give a shit? Dust is always kinda in his own world until things settle down more. Dislikes Nightmare but its as much as Dust dislikes everyone so. Has the most trouble adjusting to things but I also think him and Nightmares arrangement definitely involves NM telling him if the player returns to his world? So it lets Dust kinda start to explore his new… everything, without as MUCH of that constant weight. Which eventually becomes a general trust of nightmare even if it never grows past neutrality

Horror… horror is. Interesting. The first hurdle you have to jump is how the hell you convinced him to join NMs gang but that could be a whole other post. So putting a pin in that, Horror seemed like he adjusted the quickest but definitely was just putting up a front until everything eventually cracked and he had worlds worst crash-out. Horrors trust in nightmare (and dust and killer) was built by how that situation was handled- not that it was done perfectly but the fact Nightmare gave him proper space and accommodation without trying to force anything definitely. Like. Like in the moment it worsened the paranoia but in the long-run it made Horror feel way more secure in his place. He’s not too personally close with Nightmare but he has a pretty positive opinion despite it

Obviously theres a lot of rough edges but i think its important that Overall theres a level of security. Because it helps tie them together and give them an actual motivation to stick around if shit gets rough. If nightmare ever spiraled or seemed to make stupid decisions the three wouldn’t blindly follow, they’d turn around and try to figure out what was fucking him up. Because even if Nightmare believes its fear or deals that keeps them in line, its the security of the situation and the fact that Nightmare listens to them and values their perceptions of reality.