#billy s3

[hihuddy]

People complaining about emmy noms for ST and I’m still over here wondering where Dacre’s is from carrying the entirety of s3 on his back.

[hihuddy]

Anyway I’m still bitter that not one person tried to save Billy’s life in season 3 especially Max.

I keep seeing people writing all this stuff about how grief stricken she is and I know fics can be whatever you want but everytime I read something like that it just reminds me how angry and upset I was watching all of season 3. Not one person spoke up and said Billy has no damn idea of what’s happening to him we have to save him. Nope they just wanted to kill the Mindflayer.

I want to see Billy again a lot but I have a lot of mixed feelings about him likely coming back in some capacity in season 4. The Duffers did him so wrong in season 3 and I don’t trust them not to do the same this season either. No matter what happens I’ll never forgive them for killing off this abused teenager and not letting him know anyone thought his life was worth saving.

And please don’t reply to this with Max is/was just a kid or whatever so it wasn’t her fault. Or because of how Billy treated her she didn’t owe him anything. because 1. I’m not trying to hate on Max. I want her and Billy to have a better relationship if he indeed does come back. But 2. She wasn’t like six years old. And she was somewhat experienced with the Upside Down stuff by the time season 3 came around so it’s not like she would have just been sitting there in shock of what was going on. 3. How shitty Billy was to her a lot of the times shouldn’t have factored into saving someone who was essentially being held captive by something he had no understanding of.

Like I said I don’t hate Max but her actions (or total lack thereof) and the rest of the Party’s same lack of action in trying to save Billy still really bothers me. Once they all knew that Billy wasn’t in his right frame of mind they had a responsibility to try and save him just like they did for Will. The fact that no one even talked about this like when they were meeting at Hop’s and El was going into Billy’s mind is still baffling to me.

[hihuddy]

David J Brunson

[hihuddy]

Here’s the reality the Duffers would rather show a creepy middle aged (married) woman lusting after someone the same age as her own daughter than show an lgbtq character. Because apparently lgbtq people don’t fit in with Spielberg 80’s aesthetic.

[hihuddy]

I don’t know who made this video if this is what the Duffers actually think went on in this scene or if this is what was supposed to but that’s not what happened on screen.

El went into Billy’s mind and saw some weird shit involving Heather so Max and El went to investigate what was going on. All the while Max kept saying nothing was wrong. Which btw the writing on that was stupid af. It would have made so much more sense to have Max be the first one to notice something was really wrong with Billy and have her then go to The Party to have them investigate it. It would have definitely helped to make Max look like she genuinely cared about what was happening to Billy throughout S3 considering for the most part it seemed she didn’t care.

Anyway so Max and El start to investigate what’s going on eventually landing at Heather’s and they see how strange everything is. El is more and more upset by things Max meanwhile still tells El she’s over reacting which again wtf with this writing? >_<

So the next day the boys call the girls for a code red and Max tries to ignore it and go back to sleep. Here was another moment with Max that bugged me this season. The show did so little to show how she was actually integrated into The Party and this moment would have been good to show she understood what their code red meant and that it was serious and it was like she didn’t care. They were more interested in showing funny teenagers (like Max telling the boys off and turning off the walkie) than they were keeping with good character building and canon storytelling.

Eventually El and Max go to Mike’s house where Will tells them he’s still feeling the Mind Flayer. They talk about how it’s likely found a new host which eventually leads the kids to the pool. Where we get yet another scene of Max basically telling everyone that Billy seemed fine and normal. He’s sitting there in the heat at the pool covered up from head to toe and Max is like yeah that’s normal. 🙄 It literally took the other kids to point out how weird it was which they don’t even know Billy that well how does that make sense?

So at the pool Will talks more about the Mind Flayer and they devise a plan to see if Billy is the host

Mike: “We need to find out if he’s the host.”

Mike and the boys run off to the men’s locker room to figure out Mike’s plan which is to get Billy into the sauna

Will: “Will it get hot enough?”

Mike: “220 degrees. We just have to figure out how to get him in here.”

Will: “We’ll lock him in.”

Lucas: “Heat him up.”

Mike: “No matter what happens we’ll know. We’ll know for sure”

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Their plan was NEVER about saving Billy it was about finding out if he was the new host. When they were making this whole plan there wasn’t a single regard for what might happen to Billy like there had been for Will in season 2 with so many people caring about him. I know these are kids and I know Billy is probably one of their least favorite people but he was still a terrified teenager with no idea what was happening to him it was so messed up that no one tried to help him.

Once Billy was in the sauna Max did say to him “It’s gonna be okay, we want to help you. You just have to talk to us.” But it came off more like she was just telling him what he needed to hear so that he would tell them what was was going on with the Mind Flayer than that she was genuinely trying to help him. Because again the original plan for the sauna was never about helping Billy, Max never took the time to notice or care that anything seriously wrong was going on with him, and even after Billy broke out of the sauna and was fighting with El and got smashed through a wall and took off into the night Max didn’t really seem too concerned about him. Not once did she go to The Party or El and say please help me save my brother. Which you’d assume she would after what happened at the sauna but she barely even talked about him after that focusing much more on Mike and how she felt he was controlling El. I really don’t think I’d be caring about other people’s relationship drama if my brother was being possessed by some supernatural being and could die. 

I have a big problem with anyone especially the Duffers who would try and say that anyone made an effort to save Billy in season 3 because no one did. They were only focused on stopping the Mind Flayer and didn’t spend one minute talking about how they might save Billy all season. Which is so messed up when you compare how hard everyone worked to bring Will back in both season 1 and 2. Not one person cared enough for Billy in just that he was a human being to try and save him. Even El when she brought up his mom wasn’t trying to save Billy she was trying to save herself. Even when Billy came back to himself and stood up to the Mind Flayer to save her no one stopped him, or tried to help, or anything they all just stood there and watched him die.

I’ve said this before but this has changed how I feel about a lot of these characters. The fact that especially El and Max never once said that they needed to help Billy is pretty disturbing to me. The fact that El saw into Billy’s head saw how scared he was and didn’t try more to reach him or even talk to The Party about helping him just feels out of character for her. The fact that I was supposed to sympathize with Max screaming over Billy’s dying body or her sitting alone somberly in Billy’s room at the end yet she spent the majority of the season not focused on the horror her brother was going through just doesn’t make sense. The writing is just bad. The person I do sympathize with is Billy both for how tragic his storyline was and how they could have done so much better. It just makes me so angry not just that he died but that no one fought for him no one treated his life like it was worth saving not even the Duffers.

[hihuddy]

Everyone flailing about El saying “your mom was pretty” and touching Billy’s cheek or Max looking sad on Billy’s bed after he’s dead. Man fuck that why didn’t either of them make an attempt to save Billy way earlier around the sauna test when they knew he was being possessed by the Mind Flayer. No one did anything for him no one even talked about saving him. The thing at the end with El bringing up his mom was just her saving herself and neither her or Max tried to stop Billy from sacrificing himself to the Mind Flayer. You’re gonna tell me it would have been the same if Will was possessed again? Billy deserved so much better and it makes me angry seeing so many people praising El and Max when they did NOTHING for him.

[hihuddy]

Niclas Mortensen

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So I just finished season 3 and I really need to vent. (major spoilers ahead)

First things first I did enjoy a lot about the season and my issues with it doesn’t mean that I won’t watch it again or that I don’t appreciate all the hard work that went into it. However a lot of things bothered me particularly where Billy is concerned.

I have the feeling a lot of my fellow Harringrove shippers are going to say this was a satisfying season because even if Billy died at least they gave him the heroic sacrificing himself death and whatever other issues it could have been worse. But this season hurt a lot for me when it comes to Billy.

I’m hurt and angry they killed him off because I don’t think they needed to do that especially considering they killed Hop off so why did they also need to kill Billy? On top of killing him off I’m angry that this character who I relate to so much wasn’t given one person who gave a shit about him all season.

El went into Billy’s head. She saw his memories and the stuff that Neil had been putting him through and saw that he was being used by the Mind Flayer that he didn’t want to be doing the stuff he was doing. She saw all of this and she didn’t say anything about saving Billy and neither did Max. When they did the sauna test sure Max looked a little upset but at no point did anyone seem like they cared about what happened to Billy whether he got hurt or not. Contrast that to how things were handled with Will where many people were worried about him and crying and trying not to hurt him (like when Jonathan was telling Joyce not to turn the heat up too high on him).

It literally made me cry that NOT ONE person was thinking what’s going to happen to Billy? How do we get Billy away from that thing? They were all too focused on other stuff. But it’s also like the Duffers couldn’t even be bothered to write anything like that. Like Billy didn’t matter enough to have people fighting for him and care about him.

And while I’m glad we got to see Billy’s memories what purpose did it serve other than for El to bring it up again right before Billy dies? The way it was written she only did it to save herself it’s not like she was trying to reach Billy and get him to come back so he could be saved. Cause once he protected her and went to face off against the Mind Flayer not one person tried to stop him.

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Then they had that scene of Billy telling Max he was sorry which just makes me want to scream. It’s like all some of fandom and even the writers saw Billy as is a bad guy who needed to make amends no one saw him as this person who was hurting and needed love and support. The fact that that the show took the time yet again to drive home the point that Billy was an abused kid and he was angry and violent because of how much he was hurting and alone yet even while dealing with the Mind Flayer he was still all alone.

What was the reason the Duffers made Billy an abused kid? What was the reason to bring up those memories of him and Neil again if they weren’t to show anyone trying to help him? They could have shown how the Mind Flayer was able to get to him because of how angry and hurting he was but that El was able to get through to him because of his happier memories of his mom. They could have had El getting into his mind to reach the real Billy and he could have helped her take down the Mind Flayer by showing her a weakness it had. Later the two of them could have formed a friendship over the loss of their parents after she lost Hop. Billy could have made changes after all he went through. But the show was like nope we’ll just show how much this teenager gets abused by his own father how it’s gone on since he was a little kid, we’ll show him then get tortured by this supernatural beast and then killed off in one of the most brutal ways possible without anyone giving a shit.

Then after Billy dies we get to see Joyce running and hugging Will which just felt like a big slap in the face especially because like others have pointed out there are a lot of similarities between Will and Billy. They show has coded both as queer, they both come from broken homes, have abusive fathers, and they both have dealt with the Mind Flayer. But the show has decided to send the message that if you’re a good person like Will you’re deserving of redemption but if you fuck up like Billy you don’t deserve a second chance. You certainly don’t deserve to have people love you and fight for you. It’s so messed up.

I know people can make all the arguments in the world about why they killed Billy off. But I relate a lot to him. I come from an abusive home life and I was an angry teenager who sometimes lashed out and I’m lucky I had people who helped me become a better person. It hurts so much that the Duffers decided to write this story about an abused kid who never got a chance for anything to be better. They could have told the ending of season 3 in so many other ways without killing him off and I think they just picked the easiest laziest choice

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I also don’t feel like they used Billy enough this season. Like in the promos they made it seem like Billy was going to get a lot of focus and I feel like he hardly had any at all. I mean yeah I’m glad he was in season 3 and yeah I’m glad he had as much focus as he did but he definitely could and should have been in s3 a lot more. Look at all the focus Will had last season when he was possessed by the Mind Flayer.

They wasted so much time on bs too when it could have been on Billy and what he was going through trying to fight off the Mind Flayer which btw I feel like we didn’t get enough of his internal monologue. Like I wanted to see more of what was going on inside his head. I wanted to see him struggling with what the Mind Flayer wanted him to do. We saw a lot more of that in season 2 with Will

Oh yeah and speaking of stupid bs they didn’t need to waste time on I hated that stuff with Karen. I still think it’s disgusting because they never would have pulled a storyline like that with a girl Nancy’s age and Ted.

There was just so many times in s3 when I found myself thinking why are we spending time on this instead of following Billy.

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Aside from Billy I had a other issues this season.

I didn’t like how everyone was split up for the majority of the season. We dealt with that last season so it would have been nice to see El with everyone again. Or at the least just have a little more time with them all as a group again. I thought at least when the final episode came and they were battling the Mind Flayer they’d all be together but they were pretty split up for that too.

The last episode while good in parts felt like it could have been so much better and so much time was wasted. They wasted a ton of time on the ending with El’s letter and then that weird Russian thing. Then there was Dustin and Suzie singing the Neverending Story. I mean really did they need to sing the whole song. This is the last episode where the tension is the highest and we’re wasting time for the entire ending credits song from Neverending Story.

Erica was cute in season 2 but she got on my last nerve this season. I was worried they were going to Michelle Tanner her into this season and sure enough that’s what they did. Every time she was on screen she was pulling focus from the other characters and jumping up with something ridiculous to say. She was totally over used to the point of overkill in my opinion.

On the other side of the coin I feel like Steve was totally under used. I definitely think we should have seen him doing more with other characters. I like when Steve is the comedic relief but I also love when he’s the badass who helps protect everyone and I think they pretty much used him for laughs this season which was a waste. I also think it was a waste that they kept him in that sailor outfit the whole season. As much as Joe looked cute I would have liked to see him in some other 80′s clothes. And obviously I’m biased because I ship them together but I still think Billy and Steve should have had some scenes together more than just that one blink and you’ll miss it scene where Steve smashes the camaro. The most scenes Billy had last season were with Steve and it seems weird for them not to give them any this season.

Then there was Robin. She was okay I liked her better in the later half of season 3 vs in the beginning where she kind of got on my nerves. I mostly just felt like she was an unnecessary character though. I just kind of feel like the Duffers keep throwing in more and more characters to a show that already is super full and it pulls focus away from where it should be which the characters we’ve known from the beginning.

I know people are probably celebrating the fact that Robin is the first canonically lgbtq character in the Stranger Things universe but I think it’s a cop out for the Duffers. Why couldn’t they have made one of their main characters lgbtq? Why couldn’t they have made one of their male characters canonically queer too as it’s often easier for audiences to deal with queer women than men. Which is one reason I feel like it was so easy for them to be like look this new girl is gay see how inclusive we are but also we’re trying not to alienate our straight male audience members by including an out gay male character.

Some will argue that Will is especially after that scene with him and Mike where Mike said something about Will not liking girls but that that didn’t make him canonically gay it’s just a scene that’s heavily queer coded.

I mean I am glad that with Robin they didn’t have her and Steve end up together and I’m glad Steve has a friend his own age now  but I still feel pretty meh about her as character right now. I’m sure she’ll be around for season 4 so I’ll see how I feel about her then.

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I felt like the Russian guy that was interrogating Robin and Steve and the terminator guy following Hop were far too cartoonish. Stranger things has always had big call backs to the 80′s but they’ve always felt pretty relatable I don’t know what they were doing with those guys.

I also feel like I’m not sure where the Duffers are going with this Russian stuff. I liked it more when the big threat was the lab and I think it would have made more sense to have the lab that we saw in season 1 and 2 maybe be connected to a bigger organization that had opened under the mall in season 3. I know there was a lot of cold war Russian stuff going on in the 80s but I think they went overboard with that in season 3 and it looks to continue in season 4.

While I think the monster was incredibly impressive looking this season I  think they should have focused less on the Upside Down monsters and more on the lab and the other kids with powers. I definitely think we should have seen another kid with powers by the end of season 3 so it was disappointing we didn’t. I also still think it would have been an amazing ending to have Billy not really be dead but being held somewhere. I do wonder who that American was the Russians referenced at the end though. Is it Brenner? Could Hopper or Billy still be alive. Who knows. I assume it means something.

The whole Mind Flayer army thing felt like a wasted opportunity. I feel like they could have shown hoards of the people living in Hawkins mindlessly walking around like zombies and instead we just saw them in a couple of scenes. The idea that the Mind Flayer could have people walking around acting like themselves what they’re not really them was one of the creepiest parts of this season and I feel like it was a missed opportunity to not have explored that more.

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I think season 2 still remains my favorite out of all of them. For a lot of reasons but largely because it felt like a more cohesive season over all. The pieces all seemed to come together in a way that worked. Season 3 while good feels kind of messy. I’m sure a lot of people won’t agree with any of this and will love this season but apart from anything else the death of Billy really hurt. I’m sad Hopper died too and the funny thing is I always thought that would affect me more than any other death on the show but I’ve grown to love Billy so much. I relate to him so much and seeing him die felt very personal. I think a lot of people will probably celebrate his death they were already celebrating before they found out and that’s part of why it hurts. They didn’t see Billy as worthy of redemption and neither did the Duffers. At least he’ll live on in fandom but right now I’m just sad.