Is there a side of the transfem vs transmasc discourse that doesn't like theyfab as a term, doesn't mind tme/tma but acknowledges there is nuance, does not like misandry and androphobia as terms taken out of their context (and then acting shocked when people are offput by that), and also does not like Talia Bhatt?
cause I have all these viewpoints, but neither transandrophobia nor the transfeminist side likes hearing that so.
My opinions on "tme privilege" and "afab privilege"
DISCLAIMER: I am not against tme and tma as terminology, I use them frequently on my own time. I do have dislikes about Julia Serrano’s framework and how it’s used online. Also don’t read this expecting me to validate any of the privileges above.
For one, I think people are being dishonest when they pretend that they don't believe in afab privilege, just tme, when many rants include how tme's "weaponize agab" and are able to be in spaces due to said agab. that is a pretty consistent talking point in online transfeminism.
with julia serano, who didn't even coin tme/tma nor does her recent work even suggest that she agrees with this framework, her idea of transmisogyny and her conclusions made about experiences of trans people that are not transfem are grossly misrepresenting and ignorant. This is obviously going to affect the tme/tma convo since they’re basing their theories on her framework. the minute I knew I did not believe in seeing her framework as 100% needing of belief or support was when she downplayed butch and masculine women's experiences, still suggesting that they have power or are not as prosecuted as we think for their masculinity. very innacurate. What's funny is that I don't even dislike the words tme/tma bc it's the equivalent to someone saying nontransfem to me (bc that is how it is actually used, in reality every trans person is affected by transmisogyny and their forms of oppressions bolster it as well as vice versa).
to me, a lot of the discourse seems to be divided into two sectors:
- misandry is real and why should I care about spreading mra rhetoric that causes violence for women when I think it’s just easier to say transmisandry?
- transmisogyny is the highest form of oppression and let me sneak some mra rhetoric about female privilege!
tme and tma is just about being transfem, what is a transfem in the first place? bc if it's just a label, none of yall should be upset when other trans people use it (you require "afabs" to be intersex to be transfem, but still manage to police that asw), but you do sooo... is it the experience of transitioning to femininity? feminising yourself? from a transsexual binarist perspective, yes! but then you realize that a body is not inherently any of those things and it is something society imposes on you. so then is it about societal masculinization? cause many cis women experience this, mainly black and intersex women...so what is it again? the problem with a lot of trans discourse is that everyone poses as if they hate agab or are against frameworks being based on that, but never is it really in practice. tbh, most people view and classify transfem as "once assigned male but now transitions to female" which then excludes a lot of people. I know this is semantics, but I think if we are going to be so nitpicky about the use of agab or any term denoting what society forces us to be...this is allowed. what's funny about a lot of theorists like this is trans women can refer to the sex society imposes on them and not have that be thought of as weaponization or "theymab" behavior...but when this logic is applied to other types of trans people, it's suddenly malicious.
Believe it or not, feminism that actually understands patriarchy would not exclude non-binary and trans men because you should understand the root of transphobia is misogyny (EDIT: looks like I’m saying transfeminism uniquely doesnt, no. But there’s a problem in general with not including trans men and non-binary adequately into frameworks without treating them as diet women). It is like with gay men. They are still affected by misogyny bc homophobia is rooted in that. to a lot, "weaponizing" agab simply means trans person they view as "afab" who does not automatically erase or dissociate from cis standards imposed on them that are actively trying to take away their rights to even escape that assignment in the first place (detrans legislation). And I think about this account who made a post about how tme trans people are upset that trans women are the women of the trans community, and I think this just about sums up everything about this discourse and why a lot of radical feminist transfems will deny or have cognitive dissonance about how other trans people are viewed in society. it is the most interesting projection.
any sort of patriarchal oppression most be owned by women. to be oppressed is to be weak and feminized so typical twitter transsexual men will also join in these conversations and try to deny that this is a reality for most (often still including them). it's not about analyzing patriarchy. it's not about liberation. it's about "does this treat me as a man or woman?" it's about denying anything that does not immediately affirm my gender. we are having these convos bc many white transfeminists think any acknowledgement of gendered oppression that isn't based on binary womanhood is a psyop to take away their womanhood. its odd bc when we talk about how society sees us, many can understand this with chasers and terfs going on disturbing rants about how they want to keep these "l1ttle g1rl2" breasts for themselves and their enjoyment (disgusting), but when it comes to acknowledging that this will impact us and will lead to being affected by misogyny, suddenly that's evil afabery. 💀 and again, I do not believe that trans people are incapable of weaponizing their agabs or that there is not trans people who play into birth sex to invalidate others and say things about others experiences...I feel that the scrutiny and invalidation is just disproportionate.
and this is of course a result of misogyny and exorsexism...because thinking being considered female suddenly means you're less likely to be serious about transitioning or be a tru "valid" transsexual is extremely patriarchal but no one wants to acknowledge this bc they either dc or it's suddenly not misogyny anymore bc these people are not real women...which in that case y'all are blatantly admitting that you want to pick and choose when you consider them to be hysterical females.
also it's extremely funny to hear online transfeminists go: "you don't experience misogyny" to any trans person that isn't transfem...but when trans men analyze this perspective as being a trans MAN suddenly it's "well that's bc of misogyny anyway". you like to pick and choose.
this is how I feel about weaponizing discourse and whether tme privilege is real:
1. yes, any trans person can leverage their identity over trans women. this is well documented.
2. I do not believe the existence of this suggests anything other than lateral violence. you ask ppl to give ACTUAL ways trans men receive patriarchal benefits and it's always them doing this: ignoring the fact that terfs and cis peoples viewing of us as "female" always comes with removal of autonomy and violence...so it instead gets reframed as a privilege that we should be grateful of. We instead deserve to be excluded from feminist conversations.
2. them passing as cis men, and I'm sorry, but if you have to hide that identity to gain privilege, how are you being privileged for said identity? people with genuine systemic power based on their identity do not have to lie or hide that identity to even access that.
3. this is just how patriarchy works, men oppress women. this one never accurately addresses non-binary people and we are almost always treated as passive participants in society who experience neither privilege or oppression, or we are transmasc or transfem lite and that's how we get our shit deducted anyway.
a lot of this would be solved if we understood the patriarchy and misogyny as gendered oppression and not just man vs woman. anybody who thinks non-binary ppl are experiencing less oppression than binary women or little oppression in general is wrong. we dont have white colonizers forcing us into the box woman and man for yall to be thinking this. but most who say this are white so I expect it atp...
I really hate the dichotomy of trans discourse. I don't feel like I belong to a single side, and I feel like an imposter on each side I try to join and educate myself on.
I've been seeing people go on accounts that have a disclaimer every five seconds about their accounts being for binary trans men only, and then they go in the comment sections trying to explain or prove that they are a binary man bc they don't feel like they can comment on their posts. Free yourself, I beg. worst case scenario, those types will get mad at you and transvestigate you, but they are not that important to be hyper-scrutinizing your language to make sure you are signaling a binary male experience. move on.
terfs ability to take any sort of experience of trans womens and twist it into something nefarious is wild. I highly doubt you see lonely cis women envying girls who are prettier or more popular than them and then berate them for having that goal.
I generally do not believe in writing off any sort of theory or framework because it was created by a bad person...because most, if not all, theories we have about almost anything have been created by someone who's done something morally grey or evil that could easily contradict the values of any meaningful leftism. but I fear when that bigotry is seaping through their work, we then have to criticize the theory and framework as well.
That's why I am critical of Julia Serano (like you should be with all authors) while still enjoying a lot of her writing and not immediately writing off anything she has done. It's why I do not believe throwing whipping girl at someone's face is gonna lead to anything fruitful when she herself has backtracked on what she's said in that book multiple times.
One thing I do like about tme/tma is that it gives us an easy and short way to describe the trans people we are talking about. It's basically "nontransfem" at this point (despite julia serano saying even cis men can experience transmisogyny), and I'm not exactly angry at it for some reason. it also gives a lot of transfems a way to describe their experiences so I also want it to say as well.
