my mistake, i read something of yours where you said you think brienne is going to be sansa's queensguard and jaime will be the lc of the night's watch and they'd be separated by faith or something. maybe you've changed your mind.
another question: do you agree that brienne is sansa with a sword?
No worries, I remember that speculation. Just another galaxy brain take I had in between one shitpost and another ;)
The thing is, while I do hope for a jb HEA, and I have no doubt their story is an explicit romance that WILL be consumed (if only with a kiss as shorthand for sex, à la classic Disney tale, but who knows! nah, they gonna fuck)... while I firmly believe that, I'm not convinced we will be rewarded with a full romantic hea, and there's a strong possibility they'll end up separated BUT (best case scenario) still both alive, with the possibility of seeing each other again in the future, post endgame. Hence my speculation.
Re: Brienne being "Sansa with a sword", well, thousands and thousands of words have been written in that sense. I think the comparison has many merits, and there's definitely a strong similarity between Sansa and Brienne's idealism, their longing for true romantic love, and their faith in knighthood and chivalric ideals. But Brienne is older than Sansa and has seen and experienced firsthand some shit from within the chivalric world, while Sansa has been most of the time a victim of it; Brienne's never been sheltered the way Sansa was in Winterfell, she's been familiar with the pain of rejection, humiliation and not fitting in since she was born. There's an entire layer of Brienne trying to put her big muscular body to good use by becoming a knight that is completely lost on Sansa, and just giving Sansa a sword and a love for fighting would not make her a Brienne. Sansa herself is not the perfect paradigm of sweetness, innocence and feminine virtue that people invoke when they make oversimplifications like this. Of course, they're two characters who are apparently on opposite ends of the femininity spectrum but whose actual personality is much more nuanced and unexpectedly pulling towards the grey areas of the center of the spectrum, and yes, the conflict between idealism and (forced) cynicism / learning to cope with the harsh reality is a big deal in both arcs.
Hello dear. May I ask why you're so fond of Brienne ending up as someone's Queensguard/Kingsguard at the end of the series? What about Tarth? Isn't the point of Brienne's story for her to realize she's more than just a bodyguard? And if she's Sansa with a Sword, then why does Sansa deserve to be her own person and have a family and children and a husband but Brienne is reduced to her bodyguard? I'm asking you because I know you love Brienne.
I'm not fond of Brienne ending up as Queensguard or Kingsguard at all, I want her to end up happily in love with Jaime, as Lady of Tarth, fully in charge of her lands and her life after covering herself in eternal glory during the Long Night and the battle for the dawn
Different anon. What do you mean about the marriage symbols in Brienne's chapters? I didn't see any?
In the mêlée at Bitterbridge she had sought out her suitors and battered them one by one, Farrow and Ambrose and Bushy, Mark Mullendore and Raymond Nayland and Will the Stork. She had ridden over Harry Sawyer and broken Robin Potter’s helm, giving him a nasty scar. And when the last of them had fallen, the Mother had delivered Connington to her. This time Ser Ronnet held a sword and not a rose. Every blow she dealt him was sweeter than a kiss.Loras Tyrell had been the last to face her wroth that day. He’d never courted her, had hardly looked at her at all, but he bore three golden roses on his shield that day, and Brienne hated roses. The sight of them had given her a furious strength. She went to sleep dreaming of the fight they’d had, and of Ser Jaime fastening a rainbow cloak about her shoulders.
She was dressed in silk brocade, a quartered gown of blue and red decorated with golden suns and silver crescent moons. On another girl it might have been a pretty gown, but not on her. She was twelve, ungainly and uncomfortable, waiting to meet the young knight her father had arranged for her to marry, a boy six years her senior, sure to be a famous champion one day. She dreaded his arrival. Her bosom was too small, her hands and feet too big. Her hair kept sticking up, and there was a pimple nestled in the fold beside her nose. “He will bring a rose for you,” her father promised her, but a rose was no good, a rose could not keep her safe. It was a sword she wanted. Oathkeeper. I have to find the girl. I have to find his honor.Finally the doors opened, and her betrothed strode into her father’s hall. She tried to greet him as she had been instructed, only to have blood come pouring from her mouth. She had bitten her tongue off as she waited. She spat it at the young knight’s feet, and saw the disgust on his face. “Brienne the Beauty,” he said in a mocking tone. “I have seen sows more beautiful than you.” He tossed the rose in her face. As he walked away, the griffins on his cloak rippled and blurred and changed to lions. Jaime! she wanted to cry. Jaime, come back for me! But her tongue lay on the floor by the rose, drowned in blood.Brienne woke suddenly, gasping.
Let’s unpack this.
Brienne was betrothed three times.
The first time she was a child, but the boy she was betrothed to died of fever.
The second time she was thirteen and Ronnet Connington was six years her senior. When he came to see her, he insulted her looks, tossed a rose at her and told her it was the only thing she would have gotten from him.
Her third and last suitor, a ser Humphrey Wagstaff, told her she would have to learn how to behave as a proper lady. So Brienne challenged him to duel, telling him she would only accept such demands from a man who could beat her in combat. He couldn’t. And the betrothal was broken.
When Brienne was in Renly’s camp, Hyle Hunt and some other guys made a wager to get her maidenhead, and started wooing her (aka lowkey harassing her). Though Brienne knew it was all a game, a mockery, it still hurt. (because deep down Brienne wants to experience this romance stuff for real, from a man who really means it, and who is not gross to her.)
later on, in the melee at Bitterbridge where she won her rainbow cloak, she beat them all. She also beat Loras, who didn’t take part to the wager (but had three roses on his shield and Brienne hates roses because Red Ronnet but also because obviously Loras had Renly’s love, which Brienne would never have).
this establishes a pattern in which we have Brienne beat in combat potential lovers (husbands) who don’t deserve her (reflected in their inability to keep up with her superior strength and martial skills) and keep her maidenhead intact over and over again. This is (in large part) because of the trauma Red Ronnet inflicted on her when she was thirteen, that made her decide she will not be humiliated again and fight anyone who dares to ask for her hand.
the rose Red Ronnet tosses at her is an OBVIOUS homage to beauty and the beast, but wonderfully subverted: Brienne’s “offense” is being too ugly and witch!Ronnet “curses” her by making her forever insecure about her appearance and completely destroying her trust in men to the point that she won’t accept to be betrothed OR courted by anyone EVER AGAIN. Like the Beast is forced to hide in his castle, in sadness and isolation, Brienne is forced to build “a fortress inside herself” and hide behind it.
… until someone unexpected comes and breaks the curse.
Remember the part about Brienne beating her suitors? Fast forward to ASOS:
Steel met steel with a ringing, bone-jarring clang. Somehow Brienne had gotten her own blade out in time. Jaime laughed. “Very good, wench.” “Give me the sword, Kingslayer.” “Oh, I will.” He sprang to his feet and drove at her, the longsword alive in his hands. Brienne jumped back, parrying, but he followed, pressing the attack. No sooner did she turn one cut than the next was upon her. The swords kissed and sprang apart and kissed again. Jaime’s blood was singing. This was what he was meant for; he never felt so alive as when he was fighting, with death balanced on every stroke. And with my wrists chained together, the wench may even give me a contest for a time. His chains forced him to use a two-handed grip, though of course the weight and reach were less than if the blade had been a true two-handed greatsword, but what did it matter? His cousin’s sword was long enough to write an end to this Brienne of Tarth. High, low, overhand, he rained down steel upon her. Left, right, backslash, swinging so hard that sparks flew when the swords came together, upswing, sideslash, overhand, always attacking, moving into her, step and slide, strike and step, step and strike, hacking, slashing, faster, faster, faster… until, breathless, he stepped back and let the point of the sword fall to the ground, giving her a moment of respite. “Not half bad,” he acknowledged. “For a wench.”She took a slow deep breath, her eyes watching him warily. “I would not hurt you, Kingslayer.” “As if you could.” He whirled the blade back up above his head and flew at her again, chains rattling.
Jaime could not have said how long he pressed the attack. It might have been minutes or it might have been hours; time slept when swords woke. He drove her away from his cousin’s corpse, drove her across the road, drove her into the trees. She stumbled once on a root she never saw, and for a moment he thought she was done, but she went to one knee instead of falling, and never lost a beat. Her sword leapt up to block a downcut that would have opened her from shoulder to groin, and then she cut at him, again and again, fighting her way back to her feet stroke by stroke. The dance went on. He pinned her against an oak, cursed as she slipped away, followed her through a shallow brook half-choked with fallen leaves. Steel rang, steel sang, steel screamed and sparked and scraped, and the woman started grunting like a sow at every crash, yet somehow he could not reach her. It was as if she had an iron cage around her that stopped every blow. “Not bad at all,” he said when he paused for a second to catch his breath, circling to her right. “For a wench?” “For a squire, say. A green one.” He laughed a ragged, breathless laugh. “Come on, come on, my sweetling, the music’s still playing. Might I have this dance, my lady?”
(look at all the sexual innuendos and strangely flirtatious language here and all the chasing around and slipping away and tell me if it doesn’t sound like sexual foreplay.)
JAIME IS BRIENNE’S MATCH. Jaime is the worthy adversary that could (and probably would) beat her (thus, unknowingly earning his right to claim her as his bride) if he hadn’t spent the last months in captivity and if his hands weren’t chained together:
You’re a virgin, I take it? Childhood must have been awful for you. Were you a foot taller than all the boys? They laughed at you, called you names? Some boys like a challenge. One or two must have tried to get inside big Brienne. But you fought them off. Maybe you wished one of them could overpower you, fling you down, tear off your clothes. But none of them were strong enough. I’m strong enough.
(show!Jaime, making this concept REALLY EXPLICIT in 2x10)
But Brienne is Jaime’s match, too:
Grunting, she came at him, blade whirling, and suddenly it was Jaime struggling to keep steel from skin. One of her slashes raked across his brow, and blood ran down into his right eye. The Others take her, and Riverrun as well! His skills had gone to rust and rot in that bloody dungeon, and the chains were no great help either. His eye closed, his shoulders were going numb from the jarring they’d taken, and his wrists ached from the weight of chains, manacles, and sword. His longsword grew heavier with every blow, and Jaime knew he was not swinging it as quickly as he’d done earlier, nor raising it as high. She is stronger than I am. The realization chilled him. Robert had been stronger than him, to be sure. The White Bull Gerold Hightower as well, in his heyday, and Ser Arthur Dayne. Amongst the living, Greatjon Umber was stronger, Strongboar of Crakehall most likely, both Cleganes for a certainty. The Mountain’s strength was like nothing human. It did not matter. With speed and skill, Jaime could beat them all. But this was a woman. A huge cow of a woman, to be sure, but even so… by rights, she should be the one wearing down. Instead she forced him back into the brook again, shouting, “Yield! Throw down the sword!”
Then Jaime does something:
A slick stone turned under Jaime’s foot. As he felt himself falling, he twisted the mischance into a ping lunge. His point scraped past her parry and bit into her upper thigh. A red flower blossomed, and Jaime had an instant to savor the sight of her blood before his knee slammed into a rock.
Jaime wounds Brienne (in her upper thigh, with “his point”, lmao) and “a red flower blossomed” which is a shameless allusion to deflowering (combined with “savor the sight of her blood”… see also Barbrey Dustin’s “I still remember the look of my maiden’s blood on his cock the night he claimed me. I think Brandon liked the sight as well. A bloody sword is a beautiful thing, yes”).
Then they keep rolling and “kicking and punching until finally she was sitting astride him” (WHAT) and it gets really violent from here and Brienne slams Jaime hard underwater and yells him to yield or she’ll drown him, but it doesn’t matter because Jaime has already metaphorically claimed Brienne’s maidenhead: he made her bleed.
And, important, the fight doesn’t end with a clear-cut winner, because they’re interrupted by the Bloody Mummers. And that’s when the sexual / wedding night metaphors stop being subtext and become TEXT:
Brienne lurched to her feet. She was all mud and blood below the waist, her clothing askew, her face red. She looks as if they caught us fucking instead of fighting. Jaime crawled over the rocks to shallow water, wiping the blood from his eye with his chained hands. Armed men lined both sides of the brook. Small wonder, we were making enough noise to wake a dragon. “Well met, friends,” he called to them amiably. “My pardons if I disturbed you. You caught me chastising my wife.”
(thanks, Jaime)
Now consider:
Brienne nursing and cleaning Jaime after he is maimed (the kind of intimacy you would expect from a married couple)
Brienne and Jaime being naked together in the bathtub scene (and Jaime popping a boner after stealing a glimpse of Brienne’s pubic hair)
the Oathkeeper scene, in which they act all awkward and compliment each other like a newly wed couple in honeymoon (“Blue is a good color on you, my lady. It goes well with your eyes” and “You look…” “…Different?”) and then Jaime gives Brienne his invaluable sword
aside from the obvious sexual metaphor, the sword is a symbolically charged object: it represents the very heart and soul of a warrior, so giving your sword to someone is like giving a piece of you. And sharing the same sword (like Jaime and Brienne share Oathkeeper) is like sharing one soul. From this meta (which I recommend reading because it explains a lot of the stuff I’m trying to get at and much more):
“the ‘soul trapped in a sword’ idea is a frequent trope in myth and fiction for this very reason. Swords are never given away lightly. Think of the reverence of a knighting ceremony or why we kneel whenever a ceremonial blade is presented to someone or why Samurai’s are dishonored should they be parted from their swords. Think of why oaths sworn on a blade are considered very serious. You are swearing on your own soul.Swords are often present during wedding ceremonies among the nobility whereupon the wife sometimes kisses her husband’s blade and her husband swears his loyalty to his wife on his sword. There is also the custom of the sword and bride ceremony to consider, wherein the bridegroom’s sword takes his place in his absence. Or why a man’s sword is always brought back to his widow should he die. Or why a knight like a member of the Kings Guard or a knight of the Faith pledging service to his lord on his blade is seen as a kind of marriage ceremony. Because swords represent UNIONS. You pledge to take no other duty beyond your lord’s wishes, much like a husband and wife pledge their duty to no other. You are bound, body and spirit, in your oath to one another—on the sword shared between you.” [desidangerous]
remember how the cloaking ceremony in the westerosi wedding ritual symbolizes the man taking the bride under his protection?
in the show, Jaime gave Brienne a full body armor
so Brienne is now walking around literally cloaked in Jaime’s steel and with his sword at her side.
All of the above is merged together in the two dreams I quoted at the beginning of this post.
in the first quote she dreams of Jaime in Renly’s place, “fastening a rainbow cloak about her shoulders”. The rainbow cloak is obviously Renly’s kingsguard cloak, but this sounds a lot like a wedding ceremony, too. Especially considering Brienne’s romantic feelings for Renly.
in the second quote she dreams of Red Ronnet, the suitor who rejected her so cruelly, which proves how that failed betrothal still haunts her—not because she cared for Ronnet in particular but because Brienne is a romantic and was even more so at 13 and Ronnet destroyed her hope of having, eventually, a happily ever after with someone who loves her.
Then suddenly Ronnet changes into Jaime as he walks away from her and she’s starts to desperately scream for him and wakes up.
This shows how Brienne already subconsciously associates Jaime with marriage, but has internalized so much insecurity that even in her dreams Jaime rejects her.
Which is why “a rose was no good, a rose could not keep her safe. It was a sword she wanted. Oathkeeper. I have to find the girl. I have to find his honor”: Brienne thinks the only way she can make Jaime “come back for her” is to be a good knight for him. Keep her promise and find his honor. Since romance (the rose) was tossed in her face and used to hurt and humiliate her, she will only care for swords, because swords she can handle; she’s good at it. I think this quote wonderfully depicts Brienne’s complex vulnerability and how she still longs for something she claims she doesn’t care for, while also being completely and sincerely committed to the True Knight persona she chose to embody.
oh, and of course, “the Kingslayer’s whore”.
and Hyle Hunt, who represents Brienne’s chance for… I guess normalcy, in the form of a married life with someone who isn’t her One True Love, but is somewhat decent enough to form a family with. Something that she’s probably going to consider for a while and reject, but whose lesson is “yes, marriage can be an option for you if you want it to be”.
This could be just foreshadowing of Brienne’s romantic feelings for Jaime, but the recurring theme of Brienne’s suitors / broken betrothals, her virginity, her absolute certainty that she will never get married, and her being house Tarth’s only heir makes me think marriage is a central theme in her arc that will come to a resolution one way or another.
To conclude this long ass meta (and I didn’t even discuss Jaime’s weirwood dream, lol), there’s also the fact that Brienne spends some time in the Quiet Isle, which significantly doesn’t allow men and women to sleep under the same roof unless they’re married. Seems a pretty random piece of information to give away in a Brienne chapter… unless it will become relevant again in some future (post Lady Stoneheart) scenario, either in a “pretend to be married to avoid being separated for the night” or in a “let’s actually get married because we might not survive the night” way.
I was thinking, maybe House Tarth is a more peaceful version of House Greyjoy? A house of seafarers, maybe more involved with trade than raiding (hence the many singers, some of them foreign, passing through Tarth as Brienne recalls), which could explain the Evenstar title (besides GRRM being a LotR fan) : even (fixed) stars are vital to navigating in the dark. If the title after all passes to Brienne, it would be a nice metaphor, since she'll be one of the heros needes to survive the "night".
That’s a great thought on Brienne being a guiding light in the Long Night and thus living up to her family’s title. There are a lot of stuff in the text associating Brienne with light (in the dark), from the Evenstar title to Jaime’s weirwood dream.
I also agree with your Tarth spec. Being Tarth an island, it makes sense that its economy is based on fishing and sea trade especially on the Narrow Sea, though also deeply embedded in knightly/feudal culture (the inhabitants claim to descend from the legendary hero ser Galladon of Morne, and the Tarths used to be kings in their own right which implies a degree of familiarity with warfare; for example, TWOIAF notes that Tarth rebelled thrice to the Durrandon rule, and that Morne on the eastern shore of Tarth was once a seat of “petty” kings—the Tarths could occasionally be kinda troublesome, apparently).
In relation to that last anon's ask, do you think Brienne might and can inherit the title? Her father never remarried, might he already have decided to pass it on to Brienne or her husband? I think the Stormlands did strongly favor sons - then again Stannis wanted to crown his daughter. A coming and likely devastating war might work in her favor (needs must and so on).
Yes, I think whether or not Brienne gets married, she should inherit the title. She seems to believe Selwyn is still young enough to remarry and have a male heir from another woman, but deep down she’s aware that her family’s legacy rests upon her shoulders.
Re: the cultural bias against a female ruler, just like you said, "a coming and likely devastating war might work in her favor”. Westeros’ political and cultural landscape is going to change radically after (or even during) the war for the dawn. In the end we might have a queen in the North (Sansa), a queen of the Iron Islands (Asha), a “federal” queen of the Seven Kingdoms, or queen of the Crownlands or whatever remains of the current shape of the reign (Dany, if she survives), and whoever is left in charge in Dorne, be it Arianne or Sarella, will likely be a woman.
So I don’t think it’s a huge stretch at all for Brienne to become the next Evenstar.
I get so fucking emotional during that scene where Podrick goes "You're hard on yourself, my Lady" and Brienne starts to say "I'm not a...", because she used to see ladies as weak, something to look down on, but then she met Sansa. Sansa, who's been through more hells than probably anyone knows/can imagine, and she's STILL kind and strong and a better person than many others she's met, so maybe being a Lady isn't something to be ashamed of anymore.
I’m ALL for Brienne being inspired by Sansa’s strength to reconcile with her femininity! However, I don’t think Brienne sees ladies as weak or would be ashamed to be one.
I know that the show is 100% responsible for this reading because of that awful “you sound like a bloody woman” OOC line back in season 3, but the reason Brienne feels uncomfortable being called a lady is that it was drilled in her mind that she is an ugly cow, a freak of nature who looks absolutely ridiculous in a dress and even more ridiculous if she tries to act ladylike, whose past attempts at being graceful and feminine were only met with relentless, cruel mockery. Because of her body and appearance, Brienne doesn’t feel like the “lady” role is available to her, because the notion of femininity and ladyship in westeros is awfully restrictive and limited to those who met very specific beauty and behavior standards. That’s why she chose a man’s occupation—her options are so limited. Being a female warrior ain’t easy: she’s still mocked and marginalized and considered a freak, and male coworkers give her hell… but at least her big, strong, muscular body isn’t a hindrance in battle, but an asset. And she’s GOOD at it. Like, REALLY good.
Having chosen a warrior’s life, Brienne sort of settles down and accepts that the “lady” path is forever precluded to her. It’s a sacrifice (deep down she still longs for romance and marriage, not unlike Sansa), but at least she knows who she is and has a purpose in life. Being called lady puts all those painfully earned certainties in question all over again, brings back bad memories and past traumas, reminds her of the things she thinks she’ll never have, and of the fact that her gender will always be the wrong one for the path she chose.
Brienne never had any positive interactions with other ladies before Catelyn, who accepts her service and tasks her to bring her daughters to safety. With Catelyn first, and then Sansa and Arya, Brienne finally gets to be around women who don’t treat her like scum and respect her martial skills enough to put their trust in her. Sansa is a lot like Catelyn, while Arya is a lot like… well, a lot like Brienne herself, actually. I’m sure that forming a mutual relationship of trust and respect with these women is helping Brienne to broaden her concept of femininity and see herself in them—see how Sansa’s proud resilience and quiet strength and Arya’s defiant confidence in what she can do with weapons are not at all dissimilar from her own nature—rather than see in other women only painful reminders of how she doesn’t fit.
I don't know if this is something you've ever thought about, but do you think the death of Brienne's older brother was accidental? Rereading the books I remembered how Brienne is an excellent swimmer and tells Jaime children on Tarth learn how to swim and steer a boat before anything else. In light of this, together with their Targ blood and Robert's new rule it just seemed suspicious. I wish we new more about House Tarth!
I first came across that theory in this post, and admittedly it’s intriguing… but I’m afraid at the moment we don’t have enough canon information to mark Galladon’s drowning as suspicious (yet). One, Galladon was only eight when he died, and sometimes accidents happen even if you’re an excellent (and adult) swimmer. Two, TWOIAF only states that house Tarth’s ties with the Targaryens are “more recent” than the ones it has with the Durrandons and the Baratheons, and we don’t know when those were formed either, so… we can’t say how much of a threat Galladon was to Robert’s rule, because we can’t conclusively determine when the Tarths intermarried with the Targs. (we know SO little of house Tarth, alas.)
A popular speculation is that it was one of Egg’s sisters, either Daella or Rhae, who married the lord of Tarth, since we have no canon info on their offspring. If that’s the case, then Galladon’s supposed claim to the IT would be weaker than Robert’s, as Rhaelle Targaryen was Robert’s grandmother whereas Daella/Rhae would be Galladon’s great-grandmother**, and also, and more importantly, a daughter comes before an uncle/aunt in the line of succession; so Rhaelle, as Aegon V’s daughter, inherits before Rhae or Daella, Aegon’s sisters, and daughters of an earlier king.
** not sure of the timeline: I guess there’s the possibility that Rhae, born in 201~209 according to the wiki, had Selwyn (who is 54 in AFFC) when she was somewhere between 36 and 45 years old which would make her Galladon’s grandmother, but wouldn’t it be mentioned somewhere that Brienne’s grandma was a Targaryen princess??? More to the point, wouldn’t Selwyn have an even bigger claim than his son and heir; wouldn’t he be murdered too?
The other theory I’ve read (once again, credit to the the always mindblowing @justthetippihedren) is that Galladon (and Brienne)’s connection to the Targaryens comes from their unknown and unnamed mother, who would be a descendant (daughter?) of either Daella or Rhae, or, more interestingly, Maegor, Aerion Brightflame’s son and Egg’s nephew. Wait, Maegor who? We have very little info about this dude except his claim was passed over in favor of his uncle Aegon in the great council that followed Maekar I’s death in 233, because he was an infant at the time. We don’t know what happened to him, whether he married or had any children or lived to adulthood at all. Which is very suspicious, especially in light of George’s compulsion to write loads of unnecessary Targaryen backstory. Maegor son of Aerion could have been king in Egg’s place if he had been older, yet we know next to nothing about him. Even if he’s not connected to Brienne, I bet he’s going to pay off in some other way. He’s just too much of a blind spot.
In any case, I totally agree we need more info about house Tarth (and Brienne’s mother, for fuck’s sake!). I’m sure Brienne’s connection to house Targaryen was introduced for a purpose and that George is deliberately keeping it vague, I just don’t know what that purpose is. Is it to give her a claim to the throne? To have her as a dragonrider? Just to make her qualify as younger, more beautiful queen? idk.
also, part of the issue is that we mainly see brienne through the eyes of people who don't seem to know much about her house. catelyn seems to know very little of house tarth (and smaller characters either talk as if they know house tarth quite well and think everything is self-explanatory or they go 'brienne of where?') and then we get jaime who by his own admission doesn't care/know too much about other houses ('boltons flay people, right?'). and ditto i wanna know how e tarth got to the wall!
