#c snow

[valeriemperez]

Not to dwell on this subject too long, but when did DP say she wasn't happy with her storylines?

Under the cut to not clog timelines.

She talks about things she’d like to see for Caitlin here, but compare that with everything she thinks is missing from the KF story here (and she jokes with Caity about doing that on Legends instead lol).

Do you mind linking me where DP said that about her storylines? I felt she was truly half hearted with her CS/Julian scenes. It fizzled out in the weirdest way (as did his character).

She talks about how she was promised a lot in S3 and “they forgot” here. I know that she once said she called the producers to complain about Julian being her love interest, but I can’t find it. In the meantime, here’s an interview where she says Julian was more into her than she was into him lol.

(Interesting sidenote: she mentions the show trying to make Grant drive himself in S1 and the cast/crew rallied around him, so he has a driver… I guess paid for by the network.)

[valeriemperez]

Tati I need to know your thoughts on the upcoming Caitlin/Iris friendship. I could've supported it but after Caitlin handed Iris over to be murdered, there's no way. Why are the writers trying to build a friendship now? Why not in S2 when they lost their loved ones? The only upside is we'll see Iris POV and Caitlin pimping WA which will be a slap to SBs.

I think the writers are trying as best they can to answer the “where are the female friendships” question - three seasons too late. The problem is that it’s very clear that the showrunners have zero investment in women’s relationship to each other, so I bet the impetus for a few Iris and Caitlin scenes here and there (because that’s all I expect it to be) is being driven by some new writers such as Sterling or Kim only in their specific episodes, with maybe Judalina finally getting a scene in that’s not cut or something. The reason they are trying with Iris & Cait is because they only have two regular women, lol. Now, I’m gonna pray that Caitlin apologizes to Iris first but… Hell, it might still be a new Cait.

No matter what: it won’t be a through line because the showrunners don’t care and therefore can’t sustain it, which is why it was never successfully attempted BEFORE the point of no return in 3.18. As for why the conversations Candice alludes to are about Barry? Because everything is about Barry, or else it doesn’t exist.

So long story short? My opinion is that I’m not concerned about it because I don’t believe it’ll be a bigger deal than two or three scenes in which Iris expresses some fear of Barry leaving again, and Caitlin is like “I would have been ok with Ronnie leaving if it meant he could come back like Barry always does to you.” Woohoo!

[valeriemperez]

I know you're a comics fan, but yeah 'lightning rod' is pretty cheesy 😉 I can't picture saying it out loud without cracking up.

LMAO, I can’t lie, it is totally cheesy. I love it on the page but would probably cringe if I had to say it out loud. 

Jesus. A fan was just telling people that EBR got dropped off for the Flash set and Canada Numbnuts just had to act like a dick. He needs to get over his women issues and get a life.

‘graphs sucks, but Ken is not a fan. He’s a fellow pap who’s friends with ‘graphs & hates Candice. But for sure, he needs to get over his issues.

I may be just about the only Iris fan who is ok with her becoming friends with Caitlin. I do have a problem with Frost trying to kill her with Savitar, but she tried to kill everyone except for Joe and Wally (of the main cast). If she was willing to kill Barry (3x07) and Cisco (3x20), why wouldn’t she kill Iris? Iris isn’t even her friend. It’s inevitable that Caitlin would be welcomed back, so at least they can be friendly moving forward. The KF story was poorly written IMO. What do you think?

Never fear, you’re not alone. There are at least two other Iris fans who are alright with a Caitlin friendship. I think the big reason I have a problem with the murder situation is that KF didn’t have a moment of remorse ever with Iris, she was downright gleeful about killing her. Whereas she hesitated with Barry in 3.07, she literally snapped out of it for Cisco in 3.23, and she apologized about HR as well.

But you’re right, she isn’t friends with Iris and the story was all over the place. So we will have to see how they begin a friendship in S4, or if they indeed pretend they were friends all along. I will suspend judgment until then.

[valeriemperez]

Yeah, I'm dreading the KF redemption arc because in the first place, they were so careful not to have her do anything major that might impact her relationships when she got back that the entire thing almost feels pointless. It's clear it's going to be dropped and probably never addressed again and there won't be any real fallout. Which is my second point - it's ridiculous to me that she treated the team this way, ran off with the Big Bad and won't be held responsible for her actions at all.

I’m still unclear on whether Killer Frost is a foreign entity who has taken over Caitlin’s body, in which case she isn’t responsible for her actions, or whether KF is a manifestation of Caitlin’s traumas and darkest side. In which case, she is responsible even if it’s somewhat understandable. Or is she dissasociative like Frankie Kane was? There doesn’t seem to be a consensus. Danielle explained it the first way, but Cisco in 3.21 made it sound like it was the second way. 

And nothing totally fits. No possession has taken place onscreen the way Savitar/the stone possessed Julian. There is no history of a mental illness the way Frankie had. And Caitlin was never allowed to work through any rage she might feel, it only comes out as KF and no one seems to think Caitlin feels that way.

[valeriemperez]

What did you think of the Savitar/KF scene? I didn't get any shipbait from Savitar. Matter of fact I saw him pause when KF mentioned Iris and sharing all those memories. I don't think it was by accident. Savitar played it off like he doesn't care about Iris but I feel ultimately he will. Now as for KF, what was she doing? She seemed to be flirting and almost jealous. She's talking about Barry and Caitlin back at it and I'm like bitch please! 🙄 What was she trying to accomplish?

I didn’t either. I know people (including you, I see)thought she was being flirtatious/jealous at first, but I think that’s just how she talks lol. It definitely wasn’t written as something between them, and Savitar/Grant didn’t play into it at all.

I totally agree with you that there’s a beat there where Savitar doesn’t know if he can kill Iris, and he doesn’t answer the question either. He answers it with a question: “Why should I care about his love?”

I hope that ppl that thought they would have SaviBarry/KF be a thing feel assured it’s not happening. Ep showed how little Sav cares for KF, even as a co-villain. I was left with the impression that she was embellishing her relationship w/Sav. She told B that she & Savitar made a good team yet it was clear that Savitar is like nope. On one hand DP tried to play it flirty but it fell flat bc in the next breath she is asking him if he really wanted IW dead & talking abt how he feels all that B (1)(2) it just seemed very inconsistent. Perhaps, that was the writers way of giving her a redemption arc. The thing is, her redemption arc will seem like KF became Caitlin again because she wasn’t cut out to be a villain. Even SaviBarry was like how you gonna call yourself KF and not kill anyone. They made her a wishy washy villain and that is unfortunate.

It wasn’t written to be flirty/sexy, but she may have played it that way. And I agree that this sets up her redemption arc - she won’t be able to kill Cisco or blow off his hands. And I hope she reveals that Iris is alive.

Hopefully after this episode people will no longer fear a KF/savitar romance. KF tried to be all chummy with him only to be slapped down​ to reality by savitar. If anything KF seems to annoy him lol.

[valeriemperez]

I thought I heard that ajk recently said in an interview that savitar is not looking for a buddy when it comes to KF. Sounds like he's using her. He also wants nothing to do with CS and seemed almost annoyed with her last episode. None of that sounds like a set up for a romance. KF scenes with savitar will probably be him ordering her around.

Exactly. He wants to make sure Caitlin doesn’t come back, we have seen that he was using her to stop Tracy, and I’m sure he has something else in store for her. He probably sends her to gain the team’s trust yet again next ep and then double-cross them.

Even DP said Barry’s all about Iris right now and SB is not a thing. I have every confidence that if there was romance in the Savitar/KF scenes, she would have teased that.

[valeriemperez]

Do you think they're going the romantic route w this Killer F & Savitar teamup? I wouldn't put it past this show, kinda their way of throwing SBs a bone. DP said we'll see KF/Savitar scenes w Grant. It makes me nervous the show will bait. I don't want to see an evil Barry in love w KF who wants to kill Iris 😔

Absolutely not. First of all, it’s a contradiction in terms. Savitar abhors humanity and wants no part of it. Ergo, he most certainly is not going to be “in love” with his minion. I’m sure everyone is gonna have a scene with Grant’s Savitar now that he’s been unmasked, so that’s not a sign that it’ll be romantic. Secondly, KF can’t kiss people without freezing them, so… 

Oh dear God… I’m listening to the soundtrack of season 1, and stumbled across the one called “He’s a hero” that played when Barry & Iris had their heartbreaking conversation on Jitters rooftop in 1x23.. Still makes me cry… Gosh, I miss season 1 so much… <3

Aww! Season 1 is wonderful, and the soundtrack is too.

Is it possible that Savitar is being controlled by someone/something else? As we move to 321 (and re-watch 121) I thought about Grodd mind-controlling Joe and Barry in 121. Also, I remembered that 121, 221 and hopefully 321 reinforces Iris importance to Barry+Flash. I still have hope that they can fix the mess that the reveal has become for many.

It’s possible, but seems like an unnecessary extra reveal to me. I am sure we will get some kind of reinforcement of Iris’ importance to Barry, though.

[valeriemperez]

Finale description: "With nothing left to lose..." What the hell does that mean?!

I honestly think it’s poorly written. It should say “With everything on the line,” but I’m not the one getting paid to write descriptions.

I find it interesting that the finale description is so vague, and that it only says *Barry* takes on Savitar (not the team). If he’s stuck in the Speedforce, he would technically have “nothing left to lose” (everyone he loves is on Earth). So maybe they have a showdown in the Speedforce?

It’s probably meant to give away as little as possible, but you and I have the same idea about a final showdown in the Speedforce. Hope it happens!

I want it now, too. Imagine Iris sitting all alone in the apartment, still mourning the loss of Barry, only to see that Barry is behind the door. She opens it and he says “I’m home”. They have this beautiful embrace and everything. Then it gets taken away because the cops show up and arrest Barry, because they think he murdered HR. And that would be the cliffhanger.

I would cry tears of actual joy if this is how the season ended, tbh.

Butt head nonnie here. I want Cecile to defend Barry. I hope your other nonnie’s on to something with the possibility of Trial Of The Flash for S4. That would tie into Barry being in jail talking to Henry (Jay) in the time stream from 123. It’s also a paradox to S1. What I just don’t understand though is, why is Caitlin is so buddy-buddy with Savitar? Why are they allied in the future? Thoughts.

Cecile and Iris teaming up to uncover evidence of Barry being framed! Iris getting the public on his side with her coverage of the story! The Big Bad winding up being the one trying to bring Barry down in court! I WANT.

I think KF sees Savitar as having successfully cut ties with his human self - there’s no Barry left in him other than memories. That’s what Frost wants for herself, so she’s willing to follow him because A) it’ll cause maximum damage to the team, B) she wants him to teach her his unfeeling ways, and C) she needs to be someone’s lackey always.