#cacw speculation

[wynterwydow]

Out of the blue question, if you don't mind: In CA: Civil War, the cut scene of Natasha in the church mentions her finding her parents graves. In the novel version of the movie, she talks about the culling of the Red Room Recruits. I'm annoyed that neither version was used, but I find myself wishing that the Red Room dialog was what was actually said, as it seems both more appropriate to the Red Room, and to the tensions of Civil War, and to Natasha's pragmatism. Which do you prefer, or think?

Anon,I have read/viewed both cut dialogs from that scene. Here are my thoughts:1 - The seaching for her parent’s graves was a call back to the end of CA: The Winter Soldier when it was subtexted that the reason it would take Natasha a while to make new covers was because she was inspired by Steve Rogers to spend some time figuring out who her *genuine* self was after the fall of SHIELD. It also meant that she was, like Steve, an orphan, and the Avengers were the only family she had.  Natasha’s choices in Civil War were all about trying to keep her found-fam together or at least alive. It was Natasha herself that didn’t want to be alone.2 - The other cut lines of dropping the Red Room recruits in Syberia with only enough supplies for one person to last foreshadowed the airport fight. The Red Room called for there to be only one victor/survivor, while Natasha let both Bucky and Cap go because she wanted to choose a third path that Secretary Ross wasn’t giving them. She wasn’t, this time, letting her ‘masters’ have their victory. (Also, to get very-very speculative, there was some cut footage of the Winter Soldier on a wintery landscape, gazing down at something. I wonder if there was supposed to be a part of a scene where Natasha met the Soldier, after surviving her ordeal.)We may never know the details behind any of these mentions of Natasha’s past until the stand-alone Black Widow movie comes out.

[wynterwydow]

Natasha is orphan, isn't she? It seemed that or at least impression in mcu. Then why did she said how she went to Russia to see if her parents are alive? She must they're dead. Especially after TWS events. Was it because her identity when she told she's got figure out her new one and certain assassin from past. Shge didn't go there after previous one where he shoot engineer or did she? Did she tried to find him instead? What do you make of thi or some fiction that is about this.

It’s hard to know what to make of the extended scene when Natasha tells Steve she went looking for her parents back in Russia. In the MCU, there is nothing that tells us Natasha was an orphan, only that she was ‘raised’ in the Red Room. Her parents may have given her up for a better future, or duty to Mother Russia, when she was very young. The scenarios are almost endless.

After the events of TWS, the subtext is that Natasha is going to be herself for a while, and figure out what that means. She may have gone in person to Kiev to A) Get Bucky’s file, and B) start her search for her parents. One of her comicbook origins was that she was rescued from a building fire that killed her parents.

It’s a bit ambiguous of whether Natasha expected to find them alive or not.

Natasha told Steve that “Going after [the Winter Soldier] is a dead end. I know. I’ve tried.” I like to think that she look for him after Odessa, but because S.H.I.E.L.D. was also HYDRA, she didn’t get very far as she was being thwarted by HYDRA operatives within S.H.I.E.L.D..

My thoughts to make of what you will.

[wynterwydow]

How big of a plot twist would it have been if Natasha was riding with Bucky in December 16 1991?? I mean for non comic book fans or casual fans? I need more movies, or more fan fics, I don't know anymore!

Hey, @quirkymaddie!

It seems odd that the Winter Soldier, instructed to leave no trace, allows himself to be filmed on that date. (But yeah, I know the Russos needed a shortcut with imagery to tell the story quickly to the audience.)  I think another fan has suggested the incident happened on a road away from a Stark Industries facility on Long Island that the WS caught up with Howard and Maria.

Wouldn’t it be an interesting plot twist if Natasha was working the mission with Barnes, having infiltrated the facility months ago, and was responsible for capturing the film of the assassination for the Russians and also deleting it from the official feed/footage?

Natasha could also have been *directly* recording the footage with a camcorder. The Winter Soldier raising his pistol may have been a kind of “salute” if that was the case.

I think a lot about how to cover the Russos’ need for quick, simple, visual storytelling in my headcanons. They are welcome.

[wynterwydow]

Hello my love! I have a question - it's been a hot minute since I've read the comics involving our favorite soviet couple, but could you tell me if Nat actually witnessed Bucky's brainwashing? Or did she just find him in the cryo chamber? If she has never seen the actual brainwashing in the comics but the Russos make it happen in the movies, then dang would that be a game changer. I mean, what else could she have meant by "You might not want to pull on that thread." ??? 😶

I *believe* in the comic books, Natasha never witnessed Bucky’s brainwashing, and only discovered him in cryostatis once. I headcanon that MCU Natasha witnessed his “conditioning” once, but I’m a twisted writer who made these two suffer.

My own opinion is that the “thread” line was Natasha knowing that the Winter Soldier killed Tony’s parents, and she kept her affair with the Winter Soldier AND that under wraps so as not to divide the Avengers, which only worked for a few years until — Ta da! — Bucky’s forced out of hiding in Civil War and Zemo decides to reveal that truth instead.

[wynterwydow]

I gotta wonder about the HYDRA book; do you think it has the code to shut down the Winter Soldier?

Civil War Spoilers BELOW!

I think it might. I have to play “follow the book” when I have my next viewing of Civil War. It was interesting to me that AFTER Steve rescued Bucky from the helicopter/water, Buck naturally ‘snapped back’ to himself. Was that because it was Steve? Probably. But those codes are still ‘out there’.

Also, for my fic reasons, I’m playing the “Follow the backpack” game.

[wynterwydow]

I wonder if Sebastian is going on a Buckynat crusade because he's bitter about the scenes that were allegedly cut. I still have my fingers crossed for IW, considering that the Russos recently said that they have some big plans for Wanda.

Frankly, if I had some idea of the rumors/speculation being true about BuckyNat scenes getting cut for ‘reasons’, I’d be bitter and on a crusade!

In my lowest moments, I don’t trust that MARVEL studios has the balls (with so many internal factors the fans will never be included on) to actually do more than hint at a BuckyNat storyline. Feige and Disney will find some excuse that Black Widow has to remain this enigma that never gets her own MCU background or – Heavens FORBID - a stand-alone movie.

In my best moments, I’m basically like: Fine, if you don’t write it, I’ll fic it. Fine!

[wynterwydow]

That's a good point about how the MCU hasn't really gone in depth with Bucky's character development like the comics have. I mean Cap 3 barely scratches the surface of his redemption arc? Most of the time he's fleeing/fighting for his life & the most introspection we get is Bucky questioning if he's worth all the trouble Steve's doing to help him (even then that was about stopping a threat Bucky knew about) I have to hope that if they ever do let him have an independent emotional arc outside (1)

[reysolowalkers cont.] of being a prop for Steve’s overall arc… maybe that’ll finally be when his & Nat’s storylines overlap. I also wonder if there’s a reason they did the scene w/ him & Steve calling back to a time when Bucky was a romantic guy, trying to woo a girl (a redhead no less). From a writing perspective it feels meant to make the audience re-associate him with the type of guy who was interested in romance? More than just to humanize him… Idk it’s hard to explain & maybe I’m grasping at straws lol (2).

It’s really hard to tell what the Russos, Markus & McFeeley, and Feige have in mind for the Winter Soldier, Sebastian Stan, and his 9-movie contract. It could very well be a slow redemption arc, much slower than what the superfans crave. I think Natasha fits very well as a part of it. If she is very much a  ‘sister’ to Steve, and Bucky’s very much a ‘brother’, I just think they and Sam can eventually end up as a nice superhero adoptive family.

I’m glad that the writers included mention of pre-WWII Bucky wooing a young woman (i’m headcanoning Coney Island, here).  I have always, always headcanoned Barnes as being ultimately a lover more than a fighter, that he’s attracted to redheads in general, and that maybe it was that aspect of his personality that caused his conditioning to crack in the time he may have spent working with the Black Widow program. If it is setting up for Natasha and Bucky getting closer, it’s very subtle and well-played by the Civil War creative team.

What we comic!Buckynat fans have always taken for granted as far as Bucky’s “recovery/redemption” story could eventually play out in the MCU (I hope! I hope!). I just dislike waiting years and years to find out if the redemption arc is MARVEL studio’s grand plan for the Winter Soldier or not.

(P.S. - I love your blog, @reysolowalkers, and all the work you do as a fan for the community.)

[wynterwydow]

I AM WONDERING if " I don't spar with my partners, not anymore " will come back at Steve and Natasha in any of your cacw fics (if you write them) :)

It’s hard to say what my CACW fics would be like. I try to keep to MCU canon, but there may be so much ‘game changing’ in the movie that I’m not sure what I’ll be writing after seeing it.