#caos meta

[regardstosoulandromance]

Tell me more about your caos rarepairs?

oh boy okay so i have several!!

sabrina/lilith - my ride or die, my favorite ship. they feel like foils of each other narratively, they're both obsessed with one another in the beginning and have a mutual hatred turned reluctant reliance turned actual fondness. I think lilith sees a bit of herself in her desire of freedom and power and I love love love a toxic mentor/mentee thing.

zelda/prudence - I do like zarie but zelda/prudence are so fun to explore to me. I could see prudence looking up to zelda before the events of the series and then being like "do I want to be her or be with her" and then adding complicated feelings when zelda becomes her kind of step mother!!! they have very similar personalities and values too, like they both care a lot about their religion and societal order but will abandon it to protect their families.

agatha/mary - other people came up with this one but yet there are only like three shippers :( i don't understand why agatha and mary had their own weird little subplot with blackwood, that whole thing was odd to me, but I did like their interactions. very cute. I want them to be cottagecore girlfriends together. maybe open a pie shop. or one of those christmas stores that are open all year round.

sabrina/cheryl blossom - I liked them in the coas/rvd crossover!!! it was funny and gay that they said their covens had a softball team. i imagine cheryl as like sabrina's first girlfriend. like she dates harvey then she realizes she's bi and dates cheryl next. they both love red, they both question authority and are dramatic little troublemakers, and I think they'd have a lot of fun together.

caliban/dorcas - my token m/f couple. I just think they'd get along and that their personalities would compliment each other. caliban is a yearner and I think dorcas would like that, and they both seem like, pretty and superficial in the same way? i mean that in a nice way. I think they're neat.

[greendaleshistorian]

There are many things that I believe CAOS didn't properly think through... However, Part 4's The Uninvited (episode) truly sparks some anger in me for the simple matter of how they portrayed Mrs Anderson's (and possibly Lucy Anderson's?) demise.

Just to start: I don't dislike the idea of The Uninvited as a character/concept. I think that The Uninvited could have been an interesting look at how shallow certain characters are in Greendale and how they value appearances. Or even a further commentary on small-town courtesy politics.

In the case of Mrs Anderson and Lucy, even Mrs Anderson is depicted to be shallow in some way for refusing to let The Uninvited into her home on account of his appeance. It's how it comes across in reviews of the episode, at least. Expanding on the "heartless" narrative of the character.

However, even if Mrs Anderson is being shallow in terms of appearance... I can't blame her in any way or form for turning The Uninvited away. She appears to be a single mother with a young child inside the home. If it were me in her position, appearances aside, I wouldn't think to let a strange man into my home for any reason. Especially one who looked like they could out-muscle or manouver me. Actually... unless there were some truly extenuating circumstances, I wouldn't let a stranger into my home at all. Especially if I had a child inside.

I feel like this matter isn't addressed, as they talk about it in-universe as being a "heartless" action (at least in terms of the Eldritch Mythos.) And I think that's a gross diservice. Mrs Anderson performs a culturally acceptable, smart, self-preserving action.

And is the message being sent "women should let strange men into their homes"?

I know that The Uninvited is an antagonist and I know it's not as if the show-writers are endorsing letting strangers waltz into your home and I understand that horror is the genre...

It just felt like such a discordant event and message, considering the themes that the show claims to project about women's empowerment. It also feeds a bit into the discussion about how the younger women of the show are empowered while the older women of the cast suffer various and continuous traumas and violations of their agency, no matter what #girlboss title they hold.

** This is by no means a comprehensive deep dive or essay. Merely a ramble about the show. If you disagree, that's entirely fine 👍 I've just been thinking about this since P4 came out and as I rewatch or reabsorb material in an attempt to finish some projects, I felt the need to share.

[hayscodings]

It’s so interesting how Mary and Lilith’s story arcs run parallel to one other, but in entirely opposite directions— while Mary kicks off the series being Sabrina’s favorite teacher who is equally fond of her, Lilith has no feelings for the girl whatsoever and her sole objective is to deliver Sabrina unto the Dark Lord. But by the end of the show, Mary’s opinion of Sabrina has completely soured and their relationship is, essentially, nonexistent, while Lilith has fulfilled the role of mentor, partner, and even stepmother at different points of Sabrina’s life, and is seen mourning the loss of her at her funeral (where it appears it was finally hitting her how much she had actually grown to care for the girl). 

And what’s particularly interesting about this is the role that trauma plays in both of these stories, because it’s truly the crux of them: after she is brought back to life, Mary is exclusively driven by her trauma, which is what leads her to join a dangerous cult and leaves her vulnerable to the brainwashing that ultimately results in her resenting Sabrina. By contrast, once she is shown genuine love and kindness, Lilith manages to start the process of healing from her trauma and slowly but surely begins to unlearn all of the toxic behaviors she developed in order to survive, which, in turn, allows her to eventually recognize that Sabrina is not her enemy, and that the person she should have been directing her anger at all along was Lucifer.

I’m not sure whether or not the writers made these narrative choices consciously, but, regardless, it is very neat, and lends itself well to the idea that Lilith and Mary aren’t as different as they seem, but rather two sides of the same coin.

[marywardvvell]

Zelda tries to be a bad bitch but her weaknesses are babies and puppies 😭

[nightmarebees]

well overall i enjoyed watching part 4 as a season but i’m still bummed about the ending. main complaints (and major spoilers!) under the cut

- they never followed up with lilith?? like what was the implication of her drinking his celestial blood? why show us that if it would never get resolved?

- speaking of lilith, still can’t believe she KILLED HER INFANT SON. i thought she was bluffing to lucifer like jesus christ

- some main character deaths at least KIND OF make sense. sabrina spent a year straight fighting different enemies and then died for it. the young female lead died at SEVENTEEN without ever getting to really find herself, find her purpose, figure out who she was outside of romantic love, think about what kind of future she might have. she couldn’t even stop fighting for a moment to daydream about that bc if she didn’t fight the current danger then she wouldn’t HAVE a future. basically this ending tells us that her purpose was to die. to sacrifice herself. and we already have way too many women dying onscreen for other people. i would’ve been more satisfied with them beating the terror and then sabrina just having to get up and go to school a couple months later. because she and her friends still have life to live and they don’t know what that might be, and neither does the audience, but that’s okay bc she’s sabrina the teenage witch. idk where i was going with this it’s still dumb

- again, literally no follow up with any other characters. i know you don’t have time to wrap up every single plot line return-of-the-king style but jesus you have so many mains give me SOMETHING.

- making nick basically kill himself to be with sabrina in the afterlife is. it’s dumb. she would never want that for him, and if he really loved her, he’d KNOW that

- why couldn’t zelda just keep dating her loa gf/datemate you really had to take this from me too

[dream-girls-evil]

Honestly, one of the things I’m most worried for in part 4 is that their “redemption” of the series is going to feel like gaslighting. Especially with Lilith.

All signs are pointing to Lilith once again going to the coven for help and actually getting it this time. Which...on the surface it’s great, it’s what we wanted all along. But to pull that switch after such an emotional and traumatic rejection in part 3, one that led to the situation that’s likely going to be the cause of her seeking help again, it could be handled very, very wrong.

If they don’t explore Zelda’s guilt and regret over turning Lilith away and have some kind of conversation and apology between them, then I worry the whole thing will come off seeming like she’s only helping her now that she’s not a threat, or worse that it’s because turning to Hecate allowed her some enlightenment that never could have happened with Lilith. And that just says that Lilith isn’t good enough. That though they are willing to help her and stand by her now as equals, she’s still not worthy of their worship and loyalty.

Under other circumstances, I think this kind of relationship change could have been really good. I would have loved to see Lilith and Zelda recognize each other on equal footing and for Lilith to join the coven as a leader but also a peer. But not like this. Not if it’s about Zelda deigning to help raise Lilith back up after being partially responsible for tearing her down in the first place, or the writers trying to hastily backtrack over their mistakes without any good explanation. Especially if they don’t even acknowledge her fault in the first place. This situation is only going to work in a satisfying, honest way if they really make it clear that Zelda believed she had good reasons but knows she made a horrible mistake and this is about her trying to make amends and move forward together. And I’m not sure they will.

[jyou-no-sonoko19]

I mean, we know Sabrina is a selfish brat who doesn’t spare a thought for anyone else’s problems that don’t affect her, and that Mary being her ‘favourite teacher’ is total lip-service, 

but Mary is Roz, Harvey and Theo’s home room teacher too, and they all know what happened to her. And at first I’d forgotten about this, since for Season 1 Sabrina was the only one in the know for the longest time. But they all got caught up to speed. They were all there for the scene at Dr Cee’s where a confused Mary Wardwell wonders inside, full of amnesia and hunger, and they’re all like ‘Oh hey... she’s undeaded. Huhn. Cool. ANYWAY...'

I am fond of the Fright Club. They seem like nice kids. But there’s no believing they’re nice kids if we accept that not a single one of them had time to check on Mary, even just right after class. All three of them have been through pretty traumatic stuff. They can all see that she’s not okay. You don’t have to be a frikken Betazoid. But it seems the empathy of every kid on the show has a shockingly small radius. (I mean, Zelda’s recently got very small, considering how before she was like ‘It’s the right thing to do to protect the mortals, even ones we don’t know, from the Thirteen’ and now...) 

T h e y  k n e w  s h e  w e n t  t o  l i t e r a l  H e l l they even found out first hand what Hell was like and she was there f o r   m o n t h s How I would have loved at least ONE of them, while following that trial through Hell, to say something like ‘Oh my god, Miss Wardwell was in this place for months... I can’t even imagine... we really should check on her when we’re back home...’

T’would not have been hard.

Thanks to@ladyofriverrun , whose tags got me thinking.

[singofsolace]

Do you know what doesn’t make any sense to me? 

Shirley Jackson shaming Zelda for sleeping with Faustus Blackwood. The “wanton hussy” moment just doesn’t make any sense. Sure, if this were a Catholic church (and honestly...it’s very clear that Roberto doesn’t have any other reference point) it would make sense that Zelda would be shunned for casually sleeping with the Priest/Pastor...but it’s not.

It’s a satanic church. Orgies happen regularly, sexual activity is encouraged, Zelda has no shame, etc., etc... so why did Shirley attack her from that angle? I know the show tries to explain it as a result of Constance’s death still being fresh, and that Faustus should be observing some sort of mourning period... but honestly? I don’t buy that. You’d think a satanic church would encourage the reaffirmation of life via sexual intercourse after a significant death. It’s like the writers couldn’t come up with a better way to pit two women against each other, other than fighting over a man. Yawn.

Now, if Shirley Jackson had come at Zelda for her political ambition...her blatant greed and obsession with power...that would make more sense. I could even see Shirley being angry that Zelda was given a teaching position at the Academy of Unseen Arts when she hasn’t worked there for at least sixteen years... Honestly, it makes a lot of sense if the coven was judging Zelda for “falling from grace” after her brother died, and then using her feminine whiles to climb right back up to the top... but that’s not what Roberto was going for, was it? 

Because ultimately, these people have known each other for centuries. You’re telling me Shirley didn’t know that Zelda and Faustus dated when they were younger? She doesn’t know that Zelda has sex frequently and with whomever she pleases, and would never be ashamed of doing so? To put it in other words: If you know someone doesn't care about cooking, and then insult their cooking, what is even the point...?

And sleeping with an old flame is hardly a crime. Plus, the issue of Constance was never raised when she was alive, so why on earth would it be raised when she’s dead? 

This is why we need more women writers, in my humble opinion: because you can’t just pit women against each other for things that have already been established in canon as acceptable. The audience is going to call you on your bullshit. My (gay) brain immediately tried to do gymnastics to excuse it: Shirley Jackson is jealous, but not of Zelda; she’s jealous of Faustus. The only angle that is interesting to me is the gay/lesbian “scorned lover” one, but no, Roberto took that and ruined it too, by making Shirley one of Edward’s former paramours...

Like, what the fuck? Edward has been dead for sixteen years and you’re telling me Shirley is only acting out against Zelda now? When it’s convenient for plot reasons?! Unless Zelda has hurt Shirley, specifically and personally, why on earth would the woman try and kill her with a gargoyle? Roberto was counting on the audience just accepting that women are catty bitches who fight about these things... but he must not realize that his audience is more intelligent than he is, and that this was a really unsatisfying storyline.