#carpet rambles

[carpetcat2]

[wip] the realization that OG flowery has so many subtle expression changes

I am like, legitimately giddy. He's SMILING!!!!!!!

[carpetcat2]

i’ve been obsessed with dn flowery for couple of days now, he’s my muse.

i have a question, how does he die in this au? Does he also sacrifice himself by clashing with the knight? Or does asgore kill him. Because that one art (which i’ve analyzed every bit of already) with dn Flowery and genocide route flowey dialouge got me thinking, i think fell asgore is a type of guy to just murder dn flowery when he goes too far (like hurting kris or something. I’m curious about how the whole final fight with him would look like in general, because im sure he would NOT use the power of friendship or anything haha)

also are do other 6 flowers like eachother (im sure they dislike flowery, sorry if you already talked about their relationships w/eachother)

WAAAA HE'S SO CUTE I imagined he dies the same way OG Flowery does: sacrificing himself to try to save DN Asgore and to stop the Knight.

He would sacrifice himself for Asgore, despite knowing full well that Asgore would've killed him for reasons way more arbitrary than hurting his kid (because he's seen Asgore pressing the other flowers over time) and god knows what he was going to do to him because of that. He would do it because he thought life in general was something incredibly valuable for how fleeting he knew it was, how easy it is for someone else to take it away on a whim. He would do it because he- was his best friend. Because he loved him. Because he thought Asgore could grow and rise out of the hell his life had become. And, while Asgore absolutely would want to maim him for his transgressions, I'd imagine he'd hold off on killing Flowery for the same reasons why he kept him alive unlike the other flowers. He sees Flowery as a symbol of a much better past and of the small shred of hope he had for the future. And somewhat in the same way Asgore was Flowery's best and only friend, this weak little flower was Asgore's only remaining companion. It was one of the only things left that proved he was capable of good. Gesturing at this bit of trivia about Asgore from the official Underfell blog.

----- Anyways, power of friendship.

I remember this particular bit of dialogue, "I don't want to be like them" was in reference to the pressed bouquet, in how they're dead and had whatever original personalities they could've had were overwritten by Asgore's will in the dark world, having their darkner forms becoming an extension of Asgore's cruel beliefs rather than a celebration of the living bouquet's dreams. He never got to really meet the rest of the bouquet as actual people, but it fucks him up knowing that they could've been the same way he was when he gained consciousness in the dark world. That maybe he didn't have to feel so alone. He's still strongly motivated by love and companionship, it's just that none of his "friends" are behind his back or really there for him, unlike OG Flowery, and he knows this. So he tries to carry on by acting as if he's strong by himself, that he didn't need someone to care for him back. Not quite motivated by the power of friendship, but his LV is 99 for a reason. ----- Someone else sent an ask about if the flowers were friends so I'll be going into more detail with that ask some time later , but in short: I think they're like a really toxic friend group / coworkers lol.

[carpetcat2]

defernull aqua..

i dont remember if i posted my concepts for her here but uuuuu defernull aqua...

[carpetcat2]

I really like your take on Defernull Ch.5! The whole flower-pressing angle really adds an interesting twist to it all. The act of turning the flowers from their not-quite-darkner, not-quite-lightner status to proper darkners…but at the loss of their original identity…which they are completely unaware of…is so haunting and provides as perfectly valid in-universe reason for why Flowery would embody your typical edgy anime protag. He lost all of his friends at the hands of the one who was previously taking care of them.

For Flowery, do you think that, as opposed to his goals in canon DR of making Asgore as happy as possible in the limited amount of time he has, would DF!Flowery be trying to guilt-trip DF!Asgore for what he did and trying to make him feel bad?

(Also, bonus question, how would do you go about tackling his more meta knowledge/his perspective on it in comparison to DR!Flowery?)

I accidentally deleted my initial response to this ask I'm heartbroken. Anyways-

One of the biggest influences for my characterizations of DN!Flowery is Flowey's last scenes in the genocide route of Undertale, where he realized the indiscriminate violence of the player would extend to him too, and in the end he tries to bargain with you and pleads for his life. It was really haunting how he reverts to a scared and helpless child in that scene, especially in contrast to the malicious, unfeeling, and powerful persona he always tried to put up everywhere else.

I wanted to expand on that kind of dynamic with DN!Flowery and DN!Asgore. So, in that sense, I imagined their relationship as more like a child trying to appease and impress their abusive parent, internalizing the responsibility and fault of their caretaker as their own instead.

DN!Flowery wouldn't resent Asgore for pressing the other flowers. He and the other flowers were only supposed to live for one day, after all. He took careful (and near obsessive) care of them, making sure they were as healthy as possible. Their lives were extended so much farther than they were meant to live, and for what in exchange? Their lives were a gift mercifully given, so it seems reasonable to Flowery that Asgore got to decide when his care for them would end. If he decided they should be pressed, they should be grateful.

… But he still couldn't really shake off his fear of death. Moreso than the OG Flowery, DN!Flowery is motivated by his fear of the inevitability of fate, his mortality, and of his complex surrounding his nature as a flower. Because, to him, the consequences of his failures is so much more direct and dire. If he isn't strong enough to fight fate, it will kill him. If he fails Asgore, he will kill him. Because he is a flower, so many things could easily kill him and he could do basically nothing about it. He was just a dumb useless flower only good for looking pretty… and even then he still was failing.

If there was anyone he'd resent, it would actually be the pressed flowers.

He didn't actually understand at first they weren't the flowers he knew when they were alive. He didn't understand why they acted so differently to what he expected. He didn't understand why they didn't really like him. He didn't understand why they didn't seem to appreciate or revere Asgore in the ways he did, even if some of them did respect him. Why did they- not remember what he did for them? Why… did they not remember him?

When he realized they were just- strangers walking around in the husks of his actual friends, he would Despise them.

He still loves Asgore. He is his rock, his foundation. A strong leader whose strength (control over him and the other plants) remained constant through the worldwind of confusion that was Asgore's outside life. The only one he recognized in this new dark world. The only one left who still loved and cared for him. He would want to, not just return that care, but also try to impress him with the new abilities he's gained in the dark world. He'd hate to lose his favor. Will probably continue with the bonus question in a separate reblog...

[carpetcat2]

Mina the Hollower spoilers

Ok so can we talk about how it’s implied that the letter at the beginning of the game is implied to be forged by Lionel?

Because Thorne was revealed to be the former Marshal of Ossex right? For one, the contents of the first letter contradict Thorne’s actual intentions (“We trust in your ability to restore the generators” vs “I am going to rid Tenebrous of those wretched generators.”)

And with this guard npc guarding the mansion gate, who likely could’ve worked under Thorne when he was still the Marshal, they would’ve had good reason to be able to have suspicions that this letter was forged.

Additionally, when you do get a letter from Thorne later in the game, he uses a different stamp than the first letter. But you know who else uses that heart stamp?

Boom.

[carpetcat2]

How does df Flowery treat Kris? What does he think of them?

When conceptualizing the pressed bouquet, I actually wanted their whole deal of becoming darkners formed from what are basically corpses to mirror the possession deal we (the players) have with Kris, or at least how it might look for others on the outside. Most can't tell the difference because they never really knew who they were before they were replaced by something else. So DN Flowery, having had his whole bouquet replaced by fakers, would have complicated but intense feelings about Kris. He'd be wary and genuinely terrified of- not Kris but whatever had replaced them.

Worried and concerned for Kris themself, but resentful towards the parasite that is the player.

[carpetcat2]

I’m obsessed with all these evil flowers! I am curious, what are the Defernull flowers, besides Flowery, relationships with each other? Particularly the duos we see in-game. Are Blue and Yellow still partners or strangers? Whose the boss between Aqua and Seth? Does Green not care for Orange as much? Do they all generally get along or have differences? I have to know!

Blue/Yellow: Toxic murder yaoi. DN!Blue is emotionally manipulative and uncompassionate while DN!Yellow is stubborn and doesn't like to make himself emotionally vulnerable. But the one thing they have in common that keeps them together is their moral belief that people deserve to die, as death is the only thing that can absolve one from imperfection... of which they are obviously lacking, thus they get to be the ones enforcing this ideology. Aqua/Seth: DN!Seth is most often the one taking charge, even in situations in which DN!Aqua would actually have more authority over them. Despite Aqua being an adult in this AU, Seth treats her as if she was a naive child who should just stay at the sidelines and let them handle things. So she remains patient, as she is meant to, with their shenanigans... but if they get in trouble because of their hubris, she's not going to intervene. Because she's not the one in charge, is she? (malicious compliance). Green/Orange: DN!Green is very particular about how they want things to work, about their space, about the systems they put in place... and DN!Orange has ZERO regard for all of that!! She keeps trying to convince Green to give her free food, or she'll even just steal straight from their pantry and it drives them CRAZY.

They all butt heads at every opportunity, and Flowery unfortunately has to be the one mediating their exhausting antics most of the time, because otherwise their team would just fall apart.

[carpetcat2]

I really love your defernull flowers stuff! I keep thinking about seth. I really like the vampire vibes they have going on but like. I think about how deltarune Seth is the most dedicated to being human and never flies or anything like that.

How do you think this applies with defernull Seth? I’m imagining them trying really hard to learn about what Seth would’ve been like, trying to pretend like they’re still alive, that Seth’s personality “persevered” through death, but falling short anyway

Oh man I've been having a really hard time fully conceptualizing how I was gonna design and characterize Seth lol. For the record nothing is really finalized, so I'm just taking this as a moment to try and figure things out. My initial concept for Seth was that they'd be some mad scientist kind of character who throws aside all ethics in the pursuit of knowledge, becoming rather monstrous in the process. And that would parallel with how DN Asgore would've been driven mad by his pursuit of the truth of the dark worlds/trying to prove his innocence or something. I really like the idea of Seth trying to pretend to be alive though, trying to approximate their living counterpart's personality and shaping themself around that image. That sounds really horrifying lol.