#ch talking

[watchmefall42]

Since we’re already going far with the theories, let me just say this. Life is kind of wild, and sometimes it really feels like there’s someone behind the scenes of the universe writing a script for everything. What if Josh’s baby was the thing that finally shook Tyler into reality and made him start admitting things, at least to himself? The timing of the baby was honestly kind of painful; it came at such a random moment, when they were planning a bunch of things and had just decided to put out another full album. It’s almost funny—if not kind of tragic.

From what I’ve noticed (just vibes and impressions), during the pre-Clancy era and even a bit into the beginning of it, Tyler still seemed to be showing something toward Jenna—like making a whole music video with a song named after her. Even if it felt a bit distant, there was still something coming from him. But now it feels like he doesn’t even try anymore, almost like he knows he doesn’t have to. Jenna stopped posting on Instagram the way she used to, and when she does post now it’s like 30 photos of the kids and barely any with Tyler or actual family pictures—it’s usually something she records of him. The two stories she posted during the Breach tour where he looked completely out of it… and then him making a whole album without a single song for her? And not even mentioning it? He always used to point out which song was for her, but this time he said nothing, even when he had the chance during the listening live.

And then there’s the fact that he cut The Craving from the Clancy Tour movie. I get that some songs had to be cut for time, but a few years ago, I really doubt he would’ve cut a song for her. He used to reaffirm that constantly. And since it was a special show recorded for theaters—something that’s meant to be permanent—I was honestly surprised he chose not to include that “special romantic moment” for her on something that would be preserved like that, and Tear in My Heart doesn’t count because it’s a hit, so of course they’re going to play it . It might not mean much to other people, but it definitely sets off a little signal in my brain.

When I first listened to Breach, I was shocked by how direct he was. And it’s not just one song about Josh—the whole album feels connected to him in some way (Robot Voices, Garbage, Rawfear, Downstairs, One Way, Drag Path). And just when I thought nothing else was going to happen, he goes and does a cover of Stolen Dance along with One Way. There’s no way that cover doesn’t mean something, especially paired with that song. So to me, it feels like he needed some kind of emotional shock to really see things clearly, both his feelings for Josh and his situation with Jenna. I think he did a lot of reflecting last year, which ties into that “2025 was a really exhausting year for me” comment. Before, it felt more like, “ I love my wife, maybe I feel something sometimes but it’s not a big deal because I love her more—look at this normal family I have, I’m normal, it’s just occasional moments.” And then it shifts into, “Yeah… I think I really am, and always have been, in love with him.” And from there, also coming to certain realizations about his marriage—you know what I mean.

Anyway, sorry this got so long, I just needed to get these thoughts out

honestly, i think something was already happening before that, joshler had a resurgence because they've been feeding into it again heavily, tyler especially on stage, the clancy livestream is peppered with little moments that don't feel out of place so much as they feel direct. and i mean. do i even need to mention the lavish stage wedding.

so i think, after josh moved back, and tyler started really processing the feelings he had about his move, and maybe started to have an epiphany of some sort.

then, i think you're right, frankly, i think reality slammed into him when he found out that debby was pregnant, and he realized that while on stage he and josh could go through the motions of wedding, and he could flirt into a microphone, and all of that, night after night. that was not reality. and it hadn't been a truly possible reality since 2020 when rosie was born, or even 2015 when he married jenna, that he had stepped onto this path, and just now, as josh steps onto it too, he realizes it's inescapable.

and so. we get one way. and its remix with stolen dance on stage. as tyler finally realizes that, someday may have already become too late

and also hard agree on your points about his marriage. i think tyler has realized that while he is stuck in this situation, jenna is as well. they are two asteroids orbiting the same fixed point, so there are no performances to keep up with her anymore. because he knows she's not going to leave him. so he drops the performative stuff. probably focuses in on the childcare, and they find a new equilibrium. because what else is there to do? rip their family apart? for what? a divorce would be bad for both of them and for the kids. neither of them are ever going to file that paperwork. there's simply no point to it, no one wins in that situation and they both know it.

these sorts of trains of thought are exactly why unironic joshler sometimes sucks. because. THAT'S SUCH A SHITTY SITUATION FOR EVERYONE. NO ONE IS TRULY HAPPY WITH THIS OUTCOME. IT SUCKS FOR EVERYONE INVOLVED. they all deserved. so much fucking better than the horrific ingrained homophobia of culture that led us here. god.

[watchmefall42]

Another thing that really frustrates me, and i didn’t include this in my other ask because it was getting too long—is how a lot of fans (not just the Christian ones) act like Tyler only went through a depressive phase in his teens and then got “cured.” Like now that he’s married with three kids, he must have this perfect, happy life and only feels pure happiness. So they assume that on newer albums (Clancy, Breach), he’s just writing about that old phase, and that it’s emotionally exhausting for him to revisit that dark time—like he has to “go back” there to write, even though he’s totally fine now.

Because they want to keep this idealized image of Tyler as completely happy and fulfilled, they come up with all these explanations for why the newer lyrics are so heavy. To make themselves feel better, they convince themselves he’s just writing about the past and doesn’t feel that way anymore—that now he’s “normal.”

But it’s so clear they don’t understand depression at all. Especially when it starts that young (the chances of it being something that comes and goes over time are pretty high). And let’s be real, his life is full of potential triggers for it to come back. And on top of that, the whole lore is literally built around loops and cycles, do they even realize what that means? Just look at Clancy, look at songs like Backslide, Snap Back, center mass, One Way, Garbage , Intentions….you’re really going to tell me those are about past feelings? Garbage literally sounds like someone who feels completely drained in the present. Clancy's album is literally a relapse album.

Tyler himself has said that when he was writing Trench, he would basically lock himself in the basement, and Jenna had to go check on him , and they were newly married at the time, supposedly in that “honeymoon phase.” So come on… let’s be real. I know it’s not a pretty reality, but it’s still reality

He wasn’t in a good place mentally while writing any of the albums. Honestly, I don’t think he’s ever been fully okay or consistently happy in his life (of course there are exceptions, I’m not saying he’s miserable all the time, but he’s never really been in a phase where he felt completely happy and at peace). But some fans get really uncomfortable even thinking about that.

It’s like, “what do you mean he’s not happy? He has a wife who loves him, he loves his wife, he has three perfect kids—how is that not enough to make him feel okay?”

The songs really show how he’s been losing that spark more and more as the years go by. Garbage makes that pretty clear, talking about how there’s nothing left, like he feels so empty that there’s no energy left in him. He even questions whether he felt more when he was younger because of youth itself or just because he was more naive. And now it’s like he’s not even capable of feeling that much anymore because of how empty he feels.

You know what I mean? I get that it might feel easier to believe he’s just writing about the past now, like it’s some kind of obligation—having to revisit old things to write good songs—but Tyler makes it pretty clear these are things he still feels and experiences. The whole lore is built around cycles he can’t break. He’s still going through it—he’s just an adult now and maybe handles it differently, but it’s still part of who he is. It’s not something you can just overcome and win, and it bothers me how some people think that way.

oh yeah, the people who think that mental illness is some fleeting teenage thing piss me off, that shit follows you and sticks with you. clancy is such an agonizing album that really puts to words that feeling of "but i thought i was fine, i thought i was coping, i thought i'd gotten somewhere, but i'm falling backwards again" and anyone who thinks it's about past experiences instead of present just aren't engaging with the actual words tyler is saying.

[watchmefall42]

Thinking about what we’ve been talking about and the idea that Tyler might feel like the path he’s on now has no way back, like he’s stuck and doesn’t know what to do—it makes me think he feels that way because he has three kids, and in his mind it would ‘destroy’ the family. If divorce is already frowned upon in Christianity, imagine with young kids involved. And now with Josh having a baby too, it might feel to him like it’s too late, that he can’t be selfish and just think about his own desires, that he has to put his family first.

Having kids in the picture makes everything way more complicated than just ‘breaking up and going your separate ways.’ And now that both of them are in that situation, it’s different—it becomes more like a realization that he missed his chance at anything else, and now Josh has his own family with his wife, a life he’s not part of.

And the more you think about it, Breach having so many romantic-leaning songs actually makes total sense. It really feels like he wanted to vent in some way instead of staying in that constant state of denial, honestly, that’s already something. I think he spent all those years still in denial, constantly justifying things, refusing to accept it, and genuinely believing in and putting effort into his marriage. But now he’s in the ‘realizing’ phase, and he can’t keep pretending or lying to himself anymore, and at least internally, he’s able to admit it.

I get why some people just ship Joshler as a joke, they’d probably be a lot happier that way.

yeah. yeah. bullseye, anon, bullseye.

tyler has finally realized it might actually be too late, that they are both in too deep in their married lives, there are kids involved, families, and old hypotheticals and daydreams can't stand up to the harsh light of reality as it now stands.

and it sucks

[watchmefall42]

New People article just dropped and they managed to get a quote from Tyler, when they asked Josh about milestones with Felix. Like, I'm sure Josh would have come up with something to answer the question, but Tyler needed to be included. Like yes, this is Josh and Debby's baby but also Tyler is there, Josh don't forget.

(the article, for those curious)

as if josh ever could (or would ever want to) forget that tyler is there

that's just. kinda what happens when you ask questions on a red carpet lol (the quotes are from the amas) like even if you just have a question for one of them, the other's gonna chime in if they've got an answer. they're bonded cats, y'know.

[watchmefall42]

Junie telling Josh ‘you’re in my daddy’s shows’ when she saw him and that seems pretty recent too. But I remember that old backstage video of Rosie when she was like 2 with Tyler, and when she saw the picture of Tyler with Josh she pointed at Josh and said ‘Josh’ instead of just ‘Daddy’s friend’ or something , like she already knew his actual name at two years old. And it makes me wonder if back then (2021/2022) the four of them were a lot more present in each other’s daily lives, and Josh probably spent way more time around Rosie too because everyone seemed more interconnected and together all the time.

But then as Junie got older (2023/2024), it feels like that dynamic slowly changed and Tyler and Josh kind of retreated into their own little bubble where it became mostly just the two of them. Like they started spending way more time alone together without the wives and kids involved . I think over time they gradually started spending more and more one-on-one time together. Because if Josh was regularly going over to Tyler’s house and hanging around the kids/family environment all the time, Junie would probably know him more personally too. But based on Tyler imitating her and the way he described it, it sounds like they mostly stay downstairs in the basement/studio, and then Josh just leaves afterward without really interacting much with the kids.

Back in 2021/2022 it felt more like that ‘all four of them hanging out together’ era, and then over time that energy seemed to fade away . And around that same period something happened that made Joshler become even more emotionally intense/closer, enough for Tyler to put him into The Craving and basically make the marriage in Lavish

yeah, it seems like sai era in general was kinda the peak of the four of them doing (at least public) stuff all as a group (2021 iheart, the charity softball match) and with just one kid on tour, it was probably a lot easier to play pass the baby and not have to change too many structural things in the schedule. it was also right after debby and josh moved back to ohio, and i can imagine that both tyler and josh were very much taking advantage of the newly shortened distance to be seeing each other just, all the time, with family stuff happening habitually

then i imagine proper routines started forming, settling in, another kid, work on another tour, then on clancy, whatever insane shit was happening with joshler behind the scenes, and the family stuff started happening,,, less.

[watchmefall42]

Awwww Josh holding the award and looking pretty as usual lol how interesting for Tyler to bring up his daughters and no one else though (besides the fans obv)?

-🌓

that smiiiiiiiiiiiile :3 he's happy to be here as always ajsdfasdf

and yeah, i figured it's maybe, being aware of the timing and not wanting to take up too too much time with a long list? cute to apologize for not being able to read to them tonight though lol.

[watchmefall42]

It looks like Debby and Felix went with Josh to Vegas for the AMAs and I don’t want to automatically assume bad intentions, maybe they just wanted a Memorial Day vacation, but idk. It seems weird to go all that way for what is probably just a couple days.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DYxnC2bIWaY/?igsh=MXI2amFlOGV0anhyZg==

(clickable link)

yeah, it was probably just an excuse to get a quick vacation in over the weekend, though flying with a baby for that short a trip, what a pain.

[watchmefall42]

i keep seeing smth about jenna posting stories during breach where tyler looked miserable and i was just wondering if you could link that bc i can’t find them anywhere

i think there may be another one as well? but this is the only one i've actually seen, and i think it's what most people are referencing when they bring it up.