we're all unbearably cringe but that's not a sin

can't be seen joshlering on my main. watchmefall on ao3. -🧿 my ask tagging system

[watchmefall42]

Wasn't it because Josh's place in LA was too small? And Jenna came with Tyler too to LA so they all wouldn't fit in Josh's tiny apartment. I read that somewhere.

// The 2014 interview where Tyler looks sad as hell, the band nearly breaking up, and Josh suggesting Tyler to stay in a hotel instead of his place (Heathens bts).

yeah, i'm pretty certain it's because jenna was also there, and i doubt an la apartment would have a Proper guest room.

but emotions aren't logical, and even if tyler knew that intellectually, it probably still hurt like a rejection in the moment. (and i do think he was playing it up a little bit for the camera in the behind the scenes, even if there was truth to the underlying emotion)

[watchmefall42]

Speaking of DLD/Midwest indigo, I have so many joshler thoughts (projections lol) about the new Death cab for cutie songs, 'I built you a tower' (a) and (b). First of all, THE NAME!! They're prime edit material, I'm getting Parachute flashbacks.

"At first the silence felt / Felt like an old friend / From whom I was estranged / But finally made amends" Time difference, the literal miles between them and ofc the duration, enough to 'make amends' in a way that Tyler feels 'it's too late';

"But there was no shape / That you could not escape / What a fool I was / To think that I was safe / [...] And now I cannot think of anyone else" and "A place [...] No one else would ever find / 'Cause I needed you / I needed you contained" Their status as a duo? The 2014 interview where Tyler looks sad as hell, the band nearly breaking up, and Josh suggesting Tyler to stay in a hotel instead of his place (Heathens bts).

I still can't believe that's an actual thing. The comments write it off as a "joke", but you can see the tension between them and Tyler's crushing side-eye when Josh hugs the makeup artist. However, nothing breaks the "joke", there's no smile or Josh and Tyler making it a thing. Tyler just admits it upset him in what doesn't sound like a "joke" tone, nor is phrased like some sarcastic jab 'Josh told me to get a hotel room drummer position open' or something. Oh and I can't not throw in Tyler being a bundle of joy at Josh's wedding;

I think Transatlanticism has just received a rival in the category of 'most played by Tyler Joseph'. Oh and there's this verse in (b) that's just...

"I'm learning how to / Live without you / But these ruminations / Are all about you / And it makes me tired / So tired" Tyler being miserable in Ohio with reminders of what he could have, while Josh is out there in sunny LA, away from him and with someone else... All while Tyler's marriage is clearly not working out as he expected and then he literally gets stuck in all of it, cause covid. Death cab for cutie songs always hit, but especially with joshler glasses on

-🌓

screaming crying sobbing my eyes out

[watchmefall42]

https://x.com/silvernhills/status/2062891649349329399?s=46

Always good to remember this one. One of the most comphet things I’ve ever read. Poor guy 😭

Tyler, not wanting to meet girls because you don’t want to be away from your friends has a name

And then Josh saying after that he wants to spend all his time with Jenna to imply that she’s ‘different’ from other girls and somehow special… but honestly, that come across as a pretty classic sign of comphet too :( He was trying to compensate for it :/

(clickable link)

oh yeah, this passage fucking. kills me :(

[watchmefall42]

Slight response to the Drag Path/Blasphemy anon.

Tyler has never really shied away from lyrics that could be considered blasphemous. Honestly, his older music probably leans more heavily on the questioning of God and religion than the more modern allusions to faith. I mean. The self titled album starts off with immediately shoving the question of faith in your face:

I know you're not a liar and you could set fire this day, go ahead and make me look away... strike me down... show me your face.

I mean no disrespect I'm simply perplexed by your ways, why won't you let us use your name?

He is demanding answers from a place that we are taught to not question, the lords word is law and you shouldn't need an explanation to do as he bids that kind of thing. That, in the minds of some faithful, is blasphemy. But there are also many who don't see it as such and believe that you can't have a health relationship with God without questioning the doctrine and making your own decisions on how and what your identity in faith is.

Now, we could get into the whole false idol argument which is a can of worms in and of itself, but also if we are made in God's image and God is in all of us what is wrong with finding the support and love of another near holy.

Anyways, take this all with a grain of salt, I am not religious myself, but have grown up in and around the church and seem many different people take many different paths on their journey of faith, be that a reawaking of faith or a divorce from it all together, so I am aware of how personal it is and unique religion is a whole.

-🐐

PS. Talking about Implicit Demand for Proof and the reign/rain down and destroy me double lyrics meaning always gives me Noah's Arc great flood vibes. One of my favorite duel meaning lyrics. Along with Cut My Lip, I dont mind at all lean on my pride im a lion/im lying (am I the only one who heard it that way? Am I crazy?)

nothing else to add from me. thank you for your addition

[watchmefall42]

I’d love to hear your thoughts on the connection between Midwest Indigo and Days Lie Dormant. I find it really interesting and I’d like to hear more about how you interpret the parallels between the two songs.

midwest indigo is about josh's move to la from tyler's pov, and days lie dormant is about that same move, from josh's pov

"i want love and sunny days, i'm a bit too old to run away" "i just can't afford it, to waste my time inside a place you're not"

midwest indigo is about the heavy gray of winter and seasonal depression without josh, musing on wasted time ("did you pull up yet?/not yet!/did you forget we're tight on time?") and how it feels too late for tyler to take the same step josh did "i'm a bit too old to run away"

days lie dormant is about how things don't feel right "in a city where no one knows your name", with days that are "frozen and distorted" despite everything that is there, despite the sunshine and reprieve from seasonal depression, that josh's days are empty in la, two thousand miles away from tyler, "somewhere you can't follow" (dld has also always felt a bit like projection from tyler, like he's saying "this is how i felt in your absence and i hope you felt the same way. i hope you missed me as much as i missed you")

so they're companion pieces, about the same event, from the two different sides.

[watchmefall42]

This part of Midwest Indigo has always driven me crazy. Because it doesn’t sound like someone who’s in love and euphoric at all. On the contrary, throughout the entire song he’s sad, second-guessing himself, frustrated, living through both a literal and an emotional winter. It’s almost as if love belongs in the same semantic field as ‘sunny days.’ Like he’s saying, ‘I want warmth’ — emotional, physical, literal warmth. I want a living connection, I want color, life, not gray skies and a deep blue melancholy. And what’s even more interesting is how completely ambiguous he leaves it. ‘I’m a bit too old to run away’ — run away from what? The line isn’t ‘I’m too old to start over’ or ‘I’m too old to leave.’ That run away carries a very specific sense of avoidance, of running from something. So to me, it sounds much more like someone who’s tired of avoiding certain problems or inner conflicts, someone who can no longer keep hiding from or running away from what they truly need , in this case, love and sunny days.

If he desires it, then that means he isn’t getting it at that moment. If someone says they want a break, it’s because they’re tired. So if he wants ‘love,’ it’s because there’s a lack of it in that moment. He’s treating it as something he longs for, and to me, if he already had a deeply satisfying emotional and physical connection with Jenna, he wouldn’t write about it this way.

If love is already present, accessible, and firmly established in his life, then the idea of him ‘running from’ love or vulnerability loses a lot of its weight. And even if we don’t connect the “i’m a bit too old to run away” directly to ‘love and sunny days,’ it still suggests that a living, active sense of love and connection isn’t currently present. The entire song feels like him describing how he’s hanging on by a thread, how he’s slowly falling apart. It sounds like someone moving through a hazy, depressive period where everything feels heavy . That’s why the line comes across as emotionally deprived to me, which is a really interesting thing to hear from someone who’s supposedly in a happy, thriving, deeply fulfilling marriage.

this is amazing analysis. exactly.

[watchmefall42]

Re the flower proposal clip you mentioned; I forgot how mutual it was?? Like Josh gives the flower to Tyler first. Very sweet! Tyler just immediately ramps it up to a proposal lol (also cute how he made a separate vday insta post for Josh even back in 2017)

-🌓

(the video, for those not familiar)

right?? i love it so much. and the fact that it happened on valentine's day is just perfect

[watchmefall42]

Sorry I don’t have anything insightful to say rn, I just wanted to let you know how much I love your blog!

But also HOW DARE YOU DRAG ME DOWN THE UNIRONIC JOSHLER RABBIT HOLE???!! I was doing perfectly fine in my “haha that’s kinda gay” corner of Joshler shipping, but now I can’t unsee the tragedy of it all 😭😭

thank you!

welcome, and also i am Very sorry. may i offer you; crying to parachute by hayley williams in this trying time?

[watchmefall42]

The line “I’m a bit too old to run away” can also be interpreted as someone who wants something on an emotional level — who longs for emotional and romantic connection — but feels like their life is already too established to simply walk away or start over.

Like, they’ve built an entire life, made commitments, created responsibilities, and now they feel too old to throw it all away and go chasing what they really want. There’s a sense of, “I want this, i want love and sunny days, but I’ve reached a point where I can’t just run toward it anymore.”

yeah, exactly. it's the same feeling expressed in one way, of being trapped on the road already traveled, despite other desires.

"i want love and sunny days, i'm a bit too old to run away" "i wanted to fly, but they say a system's coming in"

[watchmefall42]

Saying “And I want love and sunny days” is kind of insane when you’re supposedly already married to the love of your life. What person who’s happily married to their soulmate would be expressing that kind of longing?

And then right after that he says, “I’m a bit too old to run away,” which directly connected to the previous line. So you want love and sunny days, but you’ve been running away from that because you’re scared, and now you feel too old to keep doing it? Why would someone be running away from a stable, decade-long marriage that’s comfortable, familiar, and safe? he’s very clearly talking about something else here.

that's what im saaaaaaaaaaaying.

midwest indigo is a subtle josh song. but it IS a josh song.

[watchmefall42]

You have to follow him for the like to show up

(re this post)

well i stand corrected. he has in fact not unliked it.

happy pride! thank you for your service, paul. it's very appreciated <3

[watchmefall42]

Just a quick correction because I can’t help myself 😭 , the anon said Paul unliked the post calling them gay, but he didn’t unlike it. His like is still there.

(re this post)

it's not showing that he still has it liked for me, so i think he did unlike it (or instagram is being weird. a distinct possibility)

edit: he hasn't unliked it. i just don't know how instagram works

[watchmefall42]

And it doesn’t even have to be a straight man, honestly. Tell me what male artist, someone who writes his own art, would spend 10 years building a lore full of metaphors about his personal life, create a character whose entire role is to save his own character from the villains, and constantly have that character running back toward the other one… and then not make that character a metaphor for his wife?

What deeply-in-love husband, with complete creative control over his work and the freedom to write whatever story he wants, would create something that personal and still not make his wife a central part of it? How do people look at that and come away thinking he’s the most romantic husband in the world?

Maybe people will start seeing it more clearly in the future, but the fact that he didn’t make Jenna Torch, or even give her a major role in the story at all (despite including a romantic interest who barely appears), says A LOT. And it says a lot about the emotional connection they have with each other

LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK!

[watchmefall42]

Can you help me understand your analysis of Midwest Indigo a little better? Specifically the part about why Tyler included Jenna in the video and wanted to include Debby as well.

I’ve got a bunch of thoughts forming in my head about it, but they’re not fully coming together yet. 😭. What I’m trying to understand is the symbolism of having the two of them there in a song that, on the surface, is about Tyler’s complicated feelings toward his hometown. there’s a metaphor there that I’m not quite connecting all the pieces of yet.

Can you explain that interpretation in more detail? Especially how Jenna and Debby fit into the emotional meaning of the song and why their presence might be significant beyond just being a casual appearance in the video.

i think it's a little easier when you remember that it's also about seasonal depression ("i requested counsel with the counselor and he canceled twice"), which is something josh cited as a reason for his move to la, while tyler said that he needs it to write.

"i want love and sunny days" neither of which he had over the winters while josh was living in la. "i'm a bit too old to run away" feeling like he missed his chance to follow josh out of columbus, to escape the heavy gray of seasonal depression, and the expectations of his family.

when performed live, it's josh who gets the "chill out, man, we're right on time" line, which is similar to sentiments that tyler expresses in a lot of his songs about josh, the dual feeling of fear that it is too late, and reassurance that josh is not leaving (see torchbearer's "always" and tally as a whole)

like every tøp song, midwest indigo is about several things at once, but it's also fairly clearly about josh (largely tyler's feelings about his move, it can be seen as a companion to days lie dormant in that way) and how winter felt heavier in his absence, "it's a different blue, it's deeper than it's been"

so the choice then, for that video, to be the one that jenna and debby were (supposed to be) in, feels stark, especially with debby's own connection to la and because they did a video for every song off the album, which makes it feel extra deliberate.

[watchmefall42]

Speaking of covers, remember when Tyler used to sing Home and My Girl as basically declarations to Josh on stage? And then there was that Columbus show where he literally sang Josh’s name, when he could have just as easily used that moment to dedicate it to Jenna instead. “What can make me feel this way? Josh Dun” He had the perfect opportunity to be romantic with his wife, who was literally there, and instead he used that moment to sing about his best friend :) he chose Josh. At a show where their families were there, too. :) and there are still people who think that’s completely normal and just him being playful? Please.

Seriously, he took a song with a female pronoun and changed it to Josh’s name, singing about how Josh is “home” to him. And meanwhile, in none of those moments did he do the same thing for Jenna ,no name drop, no shout-out, nothing.

These are the exact kinds of moments where he has the opportunity to be openly sweet toward his wife on stage, but somehow he always seems to use them to hype up his best friend instead. So apparently he doesn’t want to love his wife out loud, but he’ll take every possible opportunity to show how obsessed he is with his best friend. Totally normal heterosexual behavior, obviously. hahaha

Every straight male artist who’s married or even just dating that I can think of always has at least a few romantic moments for their partner on stage. Even if it’s something small. Because when a straight guy is in love, he usually takes those opportunities to be romantic, especially when his partner is actually there watching. Meanwhile, Tyler seems to think that putting one song for her on the setlist is enough lol.

preach it!!!

when doing something cutesy or romantic on stage, tyler will always choose josh. it's not even a competition.

[watchmefall42]

I'm genuinely still at the stolen dance cover. I can't move on I can't think about anything else since then. Like oh my god it's so obvious? It's so out there? And people still doubt/deny it? I swear, one day Tyler will, idk, kiss Josh on stage and people will still deny it. They did NOT choose a random song to cover. Nobody does that, they didn't spin a wheel. They CHOOSE IT. and the context of it all? The song came out in 2014 when Josh moved ? Them singing together ?? The whole theme of the song? How is it in the middle of one way? Which goes into TIMH? And also one way fading into DLD with Josh's voice note in the album?? I'm so sorry it's just so insanely obvious. Why do people still deny it?? Oh my god. It's that one "mental gymnastics" meme. Joshler truthers literally just have eyes Vs joshler deniers or "it's a bit" shippers doing INSANE mental gymnastics trying to explain why they're doing all that. Omg.

-🐊

ONE WAY STOLEN DANCE I NEVER STOP THINKING ABOUT YOU,,,,,

truly an unhinged festival debut. i love it so much. it's so important to me. i need a studio version right now.

[pantaloonwarrior]