Character Workshop 18/06/2016
Summary
We begun tackling how magic/powers will be implemented following the powers vote
We found it was desirable to discourage combat roleplay outside of outlets specifically for those things such as clubs etc so as to keep the school’s slice of life feeling.
Transcript
[12:01] Reisen (extrude.ragu): Today's Character Workshop, I wanted to start tackling the powers thing, as it was requested in a meeting recently
[12:02] Reisen (extrude.ragu): Idk how many of you are aware but a couple months ago we basically couldn't decide on whether we would be doing magic/special abilities/powers etc at Kokoro, so we had a vote
[12:02] Reisen (extrude.ragu): and in the end we voted in favour of powers,
[12:03] Reisen (extrude.ragu): So what today's meeting is really about is, how can we implement this
[12:04] Reisen (extrude.ragu): I'd like to say that, because in the past talks about powers turned to heated debate, this will be a hands raised turn based meeting today :)
[12:05] Anais (maverick.aura): is there a gesture for raising hands?
[12:05] BrainBaffled: yes, but that didn't end well in the 1940's
[12:05] Reisen (extrude.ragu): So, lets throw a question into the wild, to start with
[12:05] Reisen (extrude.ragu): ((just use /me raises hand))
[12:06] Reisen (extrude.ragu): If you were to implement powers, how would you do it, what would be your chief concerns?
[12:06] BrainBaffled: *raise hand*
[12:06] Reisen (extrude.ragu): Brain
[12:07] BrainBaffled: alright, so my concern is with the scale. i wouldn't have problems if someone let's say could light a candle with a snap of their finger.. but having the power to destroy planets goes too far imho
[12:08] Reisen (extrude.ragu): Okay that's a pretty good starting point, so, lets talk about scale, where would everybody draw the line on the sort of thing you should or shouldn't be able to do with your powers?
[12:08] Quest Sable (waroop.bravin) raises hand
[12:08] Reisen (extrude.ragu): Quest?
[12:10] Quest Sable (waroop.bravin): I think powers should follow these three rules 1) Amount of damage or ability to affect is agreed upon explicitly or implicitly between the RP goers 2)Powers cannot destroy or obliterate the environment. Windows are the only thing that can be "destroyed". Tables desks, etc, can be overtunred. 3) The maximum amount of damage powers can cause should only be in the same general area. Meaning if something "explodes" in the library, it can't affect people outside it, below it, or in the opposing room(s)
[12:11] Quest Sable (waroop.bravin): overturned*))
[12:11] Milly Atlass entered the region (1160.48 m).
[12:11] DarthBunny Petrov raises hand to suggest a 4) to that list (unless that list wasn't done yet)
[12:11] Reisen (extrude.ragu): Darth?
[12:12] DarthBunny Petrov: when someone's powers do cause damage or some bigger effects, the character's player must also accept that there will be consequences for that, like detention or having to clean up the mess or stuff like that
[12:12] BrainBaffled: ^
[12:12] Quest Sable (waroop.bravin): ^
[12:13] DarthBunny Petrov: (otherwise you might have to replace all the windows on a daily basis :p)
[12:13] Anais (maverick.aura): *raises hand*
[12:13] Reisen (extrude.ragu): Anais?
[12:14] Anais (maverick.aura): perhaps, in terms of scale, the powers could follow a similar format as the esper abilities in "A certain scientific railgun" where there are levels 0-5
[12:15] Anais (maverick.aura): 0 being no powers, 5 being the most destructive
[12:15] Reisen (extrude.ragu): Hmm, I'm not to familiar with how that works, would you care to expand? :o
[12:15] Anais (maverick.aura): in the anime level five powers were incredibly rare. there were only 7 in existance
[12:16] Reisen (extrude.ragu): Hum, I think my concern with this is that, this might be troublesome in the sense that everyone wants to be the main rare character, with the super abilities etc
[12:17] Ishiko (sandra.winkler) raises the hand
[12:17] Reisen (extrude.ragu): Ishiko?
[12:19] Ishiko (sandra.winkler): I see it like you, the problem with powers is, that once one person starts to be superior to the average human, others will follow and in the end, you will have no "normal" human left, as everyone becomes a specialsnowflake. I think, that his in turn, effects the school roleplay, as it is no longer focused on the slice of life of average boys and girl and their struggles in school, but more about things like ,,Who is the most potent third hokage?"
[12:19] BrainBaffled: *raises hand*
[12:19] Quest Sable (waroop.bravin) raises hand
[12:21] Reisen (extrude.ragu): I think this is probably my biggest concern actually, and is probably going to be the hardest to solve, and I think, it really -has- to be addressed, otherwise we will end up in precisely that situation, I'd be interested to hear how people think we should tackle this, idea's they have etc
[12:21] Reisen (extrude.ragu): Brain?
[12:22] Jordan (jordan.spaulding) entered the region (1160.32 m).
[12:22] BrainBaffled: Okay, so what if we're all summoned to kokoro because we're all skilled with something that we can improve here.. but no one is essentially stronger or better than someone else? that would solve the power struggle problem and keep away special snowflakes.
[12:23] BrainBaffled: we could still be good with something and better than someone else
[12:23] BrainBaffled: but someone would still be worse at something that u excell at
[12:23] BrainBaffled: balance
[12:24] Reisen (extrude.ragu): Okay, I'll let quest say what he wanted to say, then I'll talk :3
[12:26] Quest Sable (waroop.bravin): Its gonna be a logn one
[12:26] Quest Sable (waroop.bravin): I think there are some major concerns, not all of them I have a solution to, but here goes. 1) Inevitably we're going to run into the problem of implementing "red tape" (i.e. restrictions on what people can and cannot "do") as problems with powers arise. Which, they will. I think constraints are fine to a degree. A fish can't survive in a glass of water comfortably and a fish gets eaten by the shark if you throw it into the sea. But we need to make sure the tank is as big as "need be". 2) I think the issue Darth puts forth with damage scales will be...pretty hard to enforce, although it is a HIGHLY legitimate concern. Ishiko's point is also something I saw at HH. If you didn't have powers at HH you didn't have legitimacy so to speak. If you were a teacher without powers, what was stopping you from getting theoretically "rolled" by your students.I think we either need to A) Create broad "powers" with point values attached and you have as many points as weaknesses you take O R B) There need to be "power free
[12:26] Quest Sable (waroop.bravin): zones" where powers can't be exercised or used. Brain's idea is good and it was originally the model for HH, but when people can be whatever they want they knowingly and uknowingly take advantage of the system and pump themselves up.
[12:27] Mr. Skeltal (jdoe1) raises hand
[12:29] Reisen (extrude.ragu): Okay so, this actually brings up something I was concerned about, which is, what about the people who aren't interested in roleplaying with powers at all? Could we somehow make it fair for them? Since the school was primarily meant to be slice of life RP, I can forsee people who come for slice of life being put off if people who have powers kept using them against people without
[12:30] BrainBaffled: *raises hand*
[12:30] Vincent Wolf (vwolf) raises a silly hand
[12:30] Reisen (extrude.ragu): Skeletal :3
[12:31] Mr. Skeltal (jdoe1): Perhaps we can have a pre-approved set of superpowers that are designed to limit impact on power-free people.
[12:31] Mr. Skeltal (jdoe1): New powers would have to be approved by admins.
[12:31] Anais (maverick.aura): *raises hand*
[12:32] Quest Sable (waroop.bravin) raises hand
[12:32] Clover (sarria.yaffle) raises hand as well
[12:33] Reisen (extrude.ragu): I think that is a pretty good idea Skeletal, atleast with pre-approved powers it would be easier to know what's going on and reduce chances for abuse
[12:33] Reisen (extrude.ragu): If I can talk myself
[12:33] Vincent Wolf (vwolf): <.<
[12:34] Reisen (extrude.ragu): I am thinking that, combatant use of powers and stuff might not be the right way to use powers? Can we use powers in ways that enhance the roleplay in non combative ways maybe?
[12:34] BrainBaffled: ^
[12:34] Mr. Skeltal (jdoe1) agrees
[12:34] BrainBaffled: like my awesome cooking skills :3
[12:35] Quest Sable (waroop.bravin): I think thats likely, but we NEED to give that the soil to foster or else we'll have fighting.
[12:35] Reisen (extrude.ragu): Okay, Brain was after Skeltal to raise his hand
[12:35] Reisen (extrude.ragu): so, Brain :3
[12:36] Vincent Wolf (vwolf): Reisen said it partly already, but you people focus too much on combat power/strength. This is a normal school in a peaceful time. we are not part of a military school Explosions? broken windows? WTF...if you try to pull that shit, you are expelled, much like pulling a knife on someone gets you kicked out. Normal students ,even with powers, dont have much combat power at all. If they did, they would be enlisted into an army
[12:37] Reisen (extrude.ragu): ((I was about to say for Vincent to wait his turn but I realized Vincent did actually raise his hand after Skeltal, sorry))
[12:37] BrainBaffled: i agree with you Reisen, i think fighting powers are not something that i would be into, and i'd much rather have no powers at all for all members.. Yet i do understand why some people like them and have fun with them. i agree with vincent on the expelling part, perhaps we could have arranged duels for the people so that they can let's say fight here at the gym but keep it from anywhere else on the academy or be expelled or face serious consequences
[12:38] Vincent Wolf (vwolf): (its more that you broke your own rule and touched my own subject, then I start writing. People focussing on teh wrong thing and wasting too much time :( )
[12:39] Reisen (extrude.ragu): Okay, Anais's turn next :3
[12:39] Anais (maverick.aura): okay, i gotta couple things so gimmy a moment
[12:39] Reisen (extrude.ragu): Okay
[12:43] Anais (maverick.aura): going back to the idea with the levels, the ranks were just how destructive the powers were, not about how useful they were. there were level 2's that could turn invisible, level 4's could teleport things they touched and the like. there was a level 0 with the ability to negate all powers by touching them or the person using them with his right hand, making him the ultimate defensive esper but because his power was not destructive at all it was lvl 0. in addition, they only had ONE ability. if you could teleport things, you could ONLY teleport things. if you could manipulate water, thats all you could do.
[12:45] Anais (maverick.aura): and as for how the school would keep the peace, in that anime there were a group of students whos job it was to kind of keep the peace. they had abilities themselves and they were meant to be a kind of first response to stopping shenanigans
[12:46] Anais (maverick.aura): (in addition to it just being against school rules to use powers outside of designated areas
[12:47] Anais (maverick.aura): okee thats all
[12:47] Reisen (extrude.ragu): Okay
[12:47] Reisen (extrude.ragu): Quest is next :3
[12:50] Quest Sable (waroop.bravin): I think if powers are NOT being used for combat or that is not the desire (as it seems from the majority) then we need to explicitly say "Hey, we don't allow fireballs /OR/ we do not condone the use of powers for violent acts" which I think is fine. Granted, you will still get that punk who wants to start a fight on the roof and he'll use powers to try and beat down that nerdy guy/gal in his chem class. So if people want powers and they do NOT want powers to be used violently then I agree, a zero tolerance policy should be enforced. Otherwise, it'll become lax and people will end up fighting without much concern for authority. Eventually the line between IC and OOC 'punishment' disintegrates and problems occur. I thank Vincent for looking at the other side of the coin, but to be the Devil's advocate they are students. Like puberty, they don't know WHAT is going on with their bodies and how to control it. Some may want to live a normal life and be a doctor who uses their po wers for good, others may want to
[12:50] Quest Sable (waroop.bravin): get a degree and do crime. But, if they aren't in the military now, its irrelevant to the situation they're currently in. I think if we have a negation on DAMAGE based abilties we'd be fine. Otherwise, if theres too much debate up for it, we need a poll. If we do NOT have damage based abilities we need to give powers soil to foster or else they end up being useless and we've essentially slapped everyone in the face who wanted these powers by finding a somewhat "cheap" workaround to making them ineffective.
[12:51] Quest Sable (waroop.bravin): I think if people can fight in private in the gym thats OK or if its held up in the gym thats OK. But if you do that to one area there needs to be STRICT enforcement so it doesn't leak out or else it will.
[12:51] Vincent Wolf (vwolf): tldr pls
[12:51] Clover (sarria.yaffle): tldr read
[12:51] Quest Sable (waroop.bravin): Sorry buddy, read it
[12:52] Reisen (extrude.ragu): Reisen read your write up
[12:52] Vincent Wolf (vwolf): I read it, just doesnt say much to me <.<
[12:52] Reisen (extrude.ragu): Okay, I'll let Clover talk as she was the last one to raise her hand I think
[12:53] Quest Sable (waroop.bravin): I..literally am giving your comment legitimacy and merely offering a return viewpoint. Why can't you have respect for me/
[12:53] Anais (maverick.aura): hands people. stopping argument is why we instated that hehehe
[12:53] Reisen (extrude.ragu) ((lets let clover talk for now please))
[12:55] Clover (sarria.yaffle): Well first thing I was going to say is that having areas where powers just don't work, like in regular classrooms is a good idea. And yes, some people are going to want to have more combatitive powers, and i think it's a good idea to have an outlet for that, similar to how real life schools may have kendo/fencing, boxing, and archery clubs/classes. If we're going for an anime school where we take it as read that there are just people that happen to be able to throw fireballs or whatever, than it should be expected that those are a normal thing the world deals with and has constructive/safe outlets for.
[12:56] Clover (sarria.yaffle): Real life kids punching each other in the face in the hallway would get disciplined, but hitting your opponent in karate club is fine
[12:57] Clover (sarria.yaffle): Another related question I have is if spellcating style magic is considered a "power" people have or if it's a skill that pretty much anyone can learn
[13:00] Reisen (extrude.ragu): Okay, so, something I'm sort of picking up as a small theme going on here is that we've had a few people suggest there is a time and a place for combat RP, and that, as Quest said, we might end up upsetting the powers voter people if there is no point or way they can use magic like how they were imagining, so I'm thinking that perhaps we could have special magic classes/club akin to kendo/karate where people can do that stuff if they want, but not allow it to spoil the normal slice of life RP, by keeping it out of that, and perhaps we can find some alternate types of magic and stuff we can use in RP outside of those clubs if it adds something to the experience
[13:01] Vincent Wolf (vwolf) raises hand
[13:02] Anais (maverick.aura) afks for tacos. uno momento
[13:03] Reisen (extrude.ragu): Okay, I think we have sort of atleast set an outline for what we're really aiming for here today, so I think we should start to wind down, and take the last comments and we can continue this another time, so, Vincent, what would you like to say? :o
[13:03] Vincent Wolf (vwolf): Well, i know people like to talk about power levels and such...but we dont even know what *type* of powers will be implemented and on what rules it works. IT might influence later decisions
[13:04] Vincent Wolf (vwolf): for example, if magic is equipment based, like needing a wand..simply allowing wands only during lessons (lend out to students) will limit magic, for example
[13:04] Vincent Wolf (vwolf): but at the moment...we have no concrete system for powers at all. Are they psychic? magic spells based on vocal? written scrlls? medaillons? summoning spirits? etc
[13:05] Vincent Wolf (vwolf): And after this one hour..we still have nothing concrete at all. Limiting powers? yeah, we know that already..why waste an hour on it ...
[13:08] Reisen (extrude.ragu): Well, I don't think it was a waste of time, there were quite a few idea's and stuff thrown in for me to look through today, and yes, as Clover said, whether powers are something that are innate or something that is learnt is going to prove important for how we proceed, but I think this is a whole new can of worms for a future meeting no? :3
[13:09] Vincent Wolf (vwolf): Not really. Cause the few ideas mentioned in this hour was already talked about 2 weeks ago. And we end up again at the same point.
[13:09] BrainBaffled: we're adressing points, not deciding.
[13:09] Vincent Wolf (vwolf): which we already addressed before...why repeat the process if the end result is the same again
[13:10] BrainBaffled: because u can do more with more info. the rp hasn't started yet?
[13:10] Vincent Wolf (vwolf): what more info? I havent seen any new info
[13:10] Quest Sable (waroop.bravin): Well, next T&C on Friday we'll be meeting then, yeah?
[13:11] Anais (maverick.aura): *raises hand*
[13:11] Reisen (extrude.ragu): Okay, well, look, I disagree with Vincent as this has helped clear things up for me quite a bit, as I didn't feel 100% confident with what was going on or how people felt. However, next meeting we will start to cover how powers work, whether they are innate or not, etc, I don't plan to hover over this section forever
[13:12] Reisen (extrude.ragu): Anais?
[13:12] Anais (maverick.aura): i think they could be both
[13:13] Anais (maverick.aura): innate power weilders cant use the wand and book type magic. the wand and book users arent limited to one type of power but are limited to well, wands and books
[13:13] Quest Sable (waroop.bravin): That would be cool tbqh
[13:13] Reisen (extrude.ragu): Ok, this is going into next weeks debate ne :P
[13:13] Anais (maverick.aura): hehe okee
[13:14] Reisen (extrude.ragu): lets call the meeting finished here then, I think next workshop we're going to talk about whether powers are innate or not or both, and figure out where exactly they are used