YOUR THE BEST PERSON TO ASK but is it true zeus and hera have oral sex?
Oh my! This is such an intriguing question even if it did come out of nowhere and to be honest it did interest me why you had such a question haha I will try to answer to the best of my abilities because I am really honored that you say that. You honor me!
Forgive me if this answer gets longer than expected! When I get interested I forget myself.
First and foremost we need to clarify that oral sex or generally acts beyond your typical sexual act for procreation, seem to be kinda tabooed in ancient Greece. Or rather that yes we do have so many depictions or descriptions or even comedies that make fun of sexual acts that are outside what one would consider at that time "normal" or "standard" which shows that they definitely happened and perhaps they happened way too often, but plenty of the philosophers or the people who talked ethics back in that day they were trying seriously to stop them or demonize them as immoral or wrong or diminishing.
One example being sex between two men who are adult and free. The act was consider immoral for the recessive party and was considered effeminate and diminishing for the one that received the act (yeah unlike what the most common jokes for antiquity on the internet about homosexuality in ancient Greece, it was not as free as people think). In the aspects of the pederastic customs of archaic and classical and mainly hellenistic and roman times were pretty clear; that the man was the "dominant" part and the youth (normally to the final stages of the cultural puberty) was the "recessive" party. Anything beyond that was taboo and reason for someone to be ridiculed (and even that was kinda tabooish too against popular belief the aspect of pederasty was not THAT much preferred at least as people think in antiquity. Plutarch mentions plenty of the customs of the pederastic relationships to my knowledge but the social aspects of it might as well be more complicated than what we think). Two men of mature age having a relation with each other generally was frowned upon and made fun of. Generally it was tolerated to have homosexual relationships but it was far from being considered preferable.
Do we have exceptions to this? Most likely yes we do. Just like today, back then people had different habits as well as different opinions. But the fact that there are cultural rules against something, means that the act was definitely performed.
To give a blunt example; having regulations against stealing doesn't prove that stealing doesn't happen. It means the exact opposite; it means that stealing DOES happen and also to that degree that we need to have regulations to prevent it.
Similarly we go for this.
In the same subject on what is diminishing or not, seems that the non-penetrating aspects of sex such as oral sex (to men and women) was not considered something positive by social rules and it was considered diminishing for a man to submit to a woman either by serving her orally or by letting her take control of him in an act of oral sex.
But the fact that this rule existed, actually meant that such acts DID happen. In fact we do seem to have depictions not only in greek vases of sexual scenes but also in roman walls even with men offering oral sex services to women (normal or at least for some people normal, today but scandalous for antiquity at least if we take that cultural rule)
Personally I do not think the average person would be THAT shocked to see these images drawn on the wall of a brothel or some other establishment like that, not much more than an average internet browser would get shocked to see a porn bot popping up to their ads at the corner of a page. Maybe for some it feels uncomfortable and unpleasant but not shocking to the degree of having an aneurysm.
I can imagine the mothers and fathers of people who wanted to raise "respectable people" would discourage that the same way that our parents tried to discourage us from doing other stuff. That doesn't seem to stop anyone from experimenting which I am sure it was very similar in antiquity.
Telling your son not to go to a brothel and not allow a woman perform oral sex at them, might as well fall on deaf ears on many young people of the time that might as well have engaged to this and many other activities that they were not supposed to, as long as they were discreet and didn't publicly disgrace their families.
The acts of masturbation were also not encouraged. They were diminishing for someone to do because it showed they do not find partners and vulgar enough to be performed by people beneath one's status. We even have interesting mockery of sexuality and sexual acts in works like Lysistrata by Aristophanes. Also the passion beyond control was also not encouraged by society in general.
But, once more, mocking something or trying to stop something or discourage it with social control or other mean, is a proof that the act did happen in society, even by people one would name "respectable" for the society in question.
Having the above veeeeeeery brief summery in mind, one can imagine that Zeus and Hera as the king and queen of gods would be expected not to be depicted in such moments that would be considered immoral or incorrect for the time they were worshiped in. Especially Hera who is also depicted as the Queen of the Heavens and protector of marriage, normally that would mean she is not performing acts that are not considered proper.
However one seeing Zeus's various adventures with mortals and immortals, some even in form of animals or others which was not exactly encouraged either by people to engage to sexual acts with, but he did it anyways, seems to create this valid question if Zeus might perform to such acts. I mean even great heroes like Heracles have a few stories of their own in which they engage to not so flattering activities (looking at you Omphale, queen!)
So I had to make a quick search. To my knowledge there is no text that actually confirms the depiction or the act of oral sex between the king and the queen of the gods. We know they were passionate with each other, their honeymoon lasted for like 300 years (according to Callimachus) and their marriage holds out despite their endless fights and disagreements.
(The Marriage of Zeus and Hera, 6th century BC. Zeus grasps her arm to pull her towards him, Hera is removing her bridal veil for him)
Let's not forget the famous "Deception of Zeus" (Διός Απάτη) of the Iliad where the rules of this female initiative seem to be partially in place. True we do not see the roles to reverse, aka Zeus receiving submission by his wife, Hera (it couldn't be the case after all) but interestingly Hera is the one to initiate the whole thing. She was the one to control the situation at first and the one to cause seduction to her husband using the weapons that she took from the goddess of love herself. In one way we do seem that she has the essence of control of the game but Zeus is still satisfied without being diminished but the way that he was deceived is also the thing that causes his fury afterwards
If anything this act seems to tell us, it is that Hera, even when taking initiative and holding the situation in her hands, she still keeps it within the area of propriety for the society's standards. She does not claim the reins of the sexual act but she takes the initiative for it.
Would they, however, go beyond that?
I am perplexed, not gonna lie. Most part of me was thinking that no. Hera is the type of goddess to follow propriety, Zeus is the type of god never submit his will to anyone in that essence because that is literally what his worship is all about. But I had to look it up.
As I said my quick search didn't find any mention of it in ancient Greek or Roman sources. On the contrary I found a post online from a book that seems to touch the realm of retellings, the book "Marriage of Cadmus and Harmony" by Calasso who according to this ask, said as they were taking a lead from the Floral Bed of Zeus and Hera in the Iliad during the episode of "Deception of Zeus", and I quote:
“Hera is goddess of the bed—she even worries if old Oceanus and Tethys, who brought her up as a girl, are depriving themselves of it. For her, the veil, the first veil, is the pastós, the nuptial curtain that surrounds the thálamos. In Paestum, in Samos there is still evidence that the bed was a central devotional object of the cult. And when Hera makes love to Zeus on top of Mount Gargaron, the earth sprouts a carpet of flowers for the occasion. “Thick and soft, it lifted them up off the ground.” The pseudo-bed is then surrounded by a golden cloud, to substitute for the pastós. The bed, for Hera, was the primordial place par excellence, the playpen of erotic devotion. In her most majestic shrine, the Heraion in Argos, the worshiper could see, placed on a votive table, an image of Hera’s mouth closing amorously around Zeus’s erect phallus. No other goddess, not even Aphrodite, had allowed an image like that in her shrine.”
Now this is interesting and rather peculiar given how this is a scene generally atypical in art at all much less to a shrine, much less to a temple of Hera no less. With what I said above, Zeus being dominated sexually by Hera doesn't seem likely at all much less for this to be depicted and depicted so clearly. What is more, sexual acts of such a graphic nature were not depicted in temples much less in sanctuaries (they were more common in other contexts) and seems also unlikely that such a sexual scene would be placed for any reason to a sanctuary of Hera that is to worship
Now certain Christian sources that pop up seem to be mentioning such a depiction but essentially to criticize it. In the Homilies of Clementine literature, Origen in his work "Contra Celcus" and Theophilus of Antioch seem to be mentioning a supposed image of Zeus and Hera that they characterize as "unspeakable abominations" or "foul intercourse" or "with foul mouth did abominable wickedness"
All these seem to make similar claims that there is an image of Hera and Zeus doing such "abominable things", although ironically not all named Argos as the place of that supposed depiction but we also have mentions of the temple of Hera in Samos too.
Now of course that doesn't necessarily mean that they had oral sex (I mean the "mouth" references outside) given that many Christian sources named the very sexual activity foul to begin with (I mean the ecclesiastical ones at least for we all know how much less prude the everyday people were) but interestingly they all quote a stoic philosopher of 3rd century BC named Chrysippus of Soli. Now that had me intrigued as to why would they seem to say such thing and what did this Chrysippus fellow actually say
Apparently Chrysippus is not a very...canonical fellow either to say the very least! So he is seemingly describing the Hierogamy (the marriage between Zeus and Hera) in a symbolic albeit quite graphic way. In fact people like Diogenes Laertius even heavily criticized him for it (saying that he makes Hera look more like a prostitute than a goddess, finding such idea borderline blasphemous) but still recognizes his talents in general. However the very essence of the scene seems rather symbolic, almost alchemical one I would say in which Chrysippus is speaking on Hera receiving the seed of Zeus and thus her air cooling down Zeus's fire to bring the creation of the soul.
The act of the fellatio seems there given more on the symbolism of cosmogony or the realm of stoic philosophy and physics.
Seemingly Clemens Romanus also mentions how we see "Hera's head close to Zeus's private parts" as some sort of degrading image. He also mentions how "Chrysippus mentions a painting in temple of Argos" but once more the fact that Clemens writes from a completely different perspective and someone who probably associates the ancient paganistic Greece with hedonistic and sinful practices, such a stoic symbolism might as well seem revolting to him. The same we can expect from the other two commenters albeit according to Domaradzki, Origen makes an attempt to understand Chrysippus etc
The image that Chrysippus depicts though probably is an imaginary painting. I doubt that Greeks would depict the king and queen of gods in such a manner much less inside a temple. In fact that description of Chrysippus reminds me of some cosmological images of ancient Egypt or Assyria (which is not surprising that Chrysippus would be influenced by such imagery given that he was born in a city in Cilicia.
I am sorry I will put an end to my endless blabbering and get you out of your misery for this! Thank you for your patience and I hope I didn't tire you!
All in all in ancient standards the act of oral sex was not positively taken by the people of Greece although we can expect it was definitely frequent enough for people to build regulations around it.
Now we normally shouldn't expect Zeus and Hera perform such acts due to their sacred symbolism and the way that their marriage is dealt with by the ancient sources.
However their sexual strength that is undoubtedly talked about by the sources does create a good question if such a scene would be possible to the bed of the married couple of gods but I doubt any ancient or religious source about them would seemingly spell it out
Now the only evidence that includes the possibility of such a scene existing are three Christian critics of a stoic Philosopher that describes a symbolic fellatio between Zeus and Hera. However the fact that all seem to point at him and the fact that his symbolism is clear (not to mention that he claims an image like that was depicted within a temple) makes me think that probably such a graphic image didn't exist.
In my estimation it is some symbolical description of a painting that might or might not have existed that depicts the marriage of Zeus and Hera. I am not convinced that such an image actually existed. Doesn't seem possible given the context
However despite the long answer, do Zeus and Hera have oral sex? Yes, is a short answer, albeit only in some symbolical and allegorical image that the stoic philosopher Chrysippus uses to give us an cosmological allegory. It probably was not a thing in the general ancient belief system and I am not sure that such a thing would be even mentioned (unless it was probably the most vulgar and entertaining and shocking comedy of Aristophanes for some reason! Hahaha) but if you just use the symbplism of Chrysippus then yes. Allegorically we have an act of oral sex but mostly as symbolism rather than mythology
In myth we have no example of oral sex between Hera and Zeus to my knowledge.
What greek myth wouldn't be perfect without tragedy? Imagine going to war for your son whom was kidnapped. To win. To finally get to go home but... Your wife ends up killing him.
Now for those who don't know Chrysippus is not Hippodamia's son. Pelops did in fact have an affair with a river nymph. I think that would piss anyone off. But instead of disowning, Pelops did infact raise Chrys. Then the kidnapping happened. And when he was saved, Hippodamia killed him. (Some instances have Atreus and Thyestes kill him) She tries to frame Prince Laios (who did kidnap Chrys) but Chrys survives long enough to tell his father what happened. Despite it all, Pelops doesn't kill her. She ends up running away and well. Dies.
Anyway I wanted to play with the scene cause Pelops goes through A LOT of people he cares about dying. His brother, sister and her children, we don't know about his mother but I assume. He lives through Chrys dying and his grandchildren being boiled and eaten. Like hoo man.
If a young son or daughter of Hippodamia had gotten kidnaped instead of Chrysippus things would have went very different for Pelops and Hippodamia.
I mean, as long as Hippodamia didn't try to kill or exile Chrysippus while Pelops was at war, he wouldn't have a reason to kick her out.
And when Pelops comes back victorious with their son/daughter in arms i think Hippodamia would have very quickly fallen for him all over again. There's her hero, there's the man that would do anything to protect his family. The one that she fell in love with for his bravery.
She would have received him the same way Penelope received Odysseus and Poseidon would probably had to ask Helios to hold dawn for a little bit lmao
Hippodamia really was a grooming and CSA victim who kills another grooming and CSA victim in order to preserve her sons status only for one of her sons to assault his own child.
"Pelops had a child, by a previous wife,
named Chrysippus. Later, he married Hippodamia, daughter of
Oinomaos, and had several children by her. Since Chrysippos was
dearly cherished by his father, his stepmother and her children
jealously suspected that Pelops would bequeath the scepter to him,
so they plotted his death, electing for this task Atreus and Thyestes,
the eldest of the children. When Pelops found out that Chrysippos
had been killed, he banished the murderers – his own sons – praying
for the destruction of them and their descendants. And so, they were
driven out of Pisa, each to a different place. Upon Pelops’ death,
Atreus, by right of his seniority, came with a large army and took
control over the territories. Hellanicus records the story"
-new scholia odyssey im grinding
Marriage in Ancient Greece was scary because what if he promised me that he loved me the most he loved any woman but favored the children of the women he cheated on me with while barely loving and neglecting all the children I gave him
