#comicbookmama

[fbwzoo]

For my masters project, I wrote a book for teachers about proper care of class pets. I'm thinking of revisiting it in hopes of getting it published, and am working on updating its info. What small animals do you feel are best suited to school life - assuming that the teacher is a proper caretaker (and as a teacher, I know that assumes a great deal - that's what the point of the book is, that teachers who choose to have class pets are obligated to model proper caretaking for the students).

Gah, I find this really hard because I really just…don’t believe in classroom pets. :-/  I’ve had very bad experiences with it personally, and I rarely hear GOOD stories about classroom pets. So the whole thing just seems like a horrible idea to me.

That said…I guess these are the ones I would suggest if the teacher is really willing to put the effort in and make it work out for the animal, not just the classroom & kids, along with my reasoning.

- Invertebrates: I saw a post discussing this recently…I can’t recall if I reblogged it or not. If I remember, I’ll try to find it. There’s a fair number of invertebrates with pretty easy diets, not a lot of special temperature/humidity needs, can be kept in small tanks (5-10g) & are big enough to be interesting to watch. Also generally pretty cheap to buy, set up, & maintain. Bonus of teaching kids the interesting parts of bugs, their important role in various ecosystems, etc. Examples include roaches, other beetles, preying mantids, isopods…I’m sure I’m forgetting some. 

- Mice: NOT to be hands-on for the kids; can keep a couple females together in a small enough tank to be reasonable for classroom - 20-30g; don’t need particularly special temperature/humidity; relatively easy diet to manage in classroom setting. 

- Gerbils: Also not to be hands-on for kids; again, can keep a pair of same sex gerbils in a similar sized tank as mouse; also a relatively easy diet, no special temp/humidity needs. They do need plenty of digging space & care must be taken with enrichment because they’ll chew it. 

These are really the only mammals I’m comfortable even suggesting. I’m still hesitant because both are prey animals that can be easily stressed by noise, so I would consider it necessary for the teacher to watch behavior & health and be willing to remove the animals to their own home if the noise & activity prove to be too stressful. I’m not comfortable listing any other mammals - most need much more space than most classrooms are willing or able to provide, or they need more hands-on socializing, or they have more specific care needs that could get tricky.

- Crested gecko: Similar to above, this is the only reptile I think I’m comfortable with suggesting. I’m not as great on reptiles, so there might be some other potential options. But most reptiles need special heating, lighting, need live prey or frozen rodents for prey, etc. All of that gets a lot more dicey in a classroom setting where heating elements may not be allowed or may get turned off by cleaning staff. Crested geckos don’t really need special heating/lighting (but care does need to be taken that they don’t get too warm, some classrooms can have issues with that), they can be fed a balanced commercial diet that’s easy to prepare, they can be kept in a relatively small tank, they’re fun to watch. 

…That’s all I got. Fish can be more difficult to move since the tank must be drained, it would likely be harder to do water changes in most classrooms, etc. Otherwise I’d suggest possibly a betta fish in a 10g tank. But ehhhhh. Birds are an absolute no, hermit crabs require too elaborate of a set up to really be ideal in a classroom (and are not easy to dismantle for taking home on school breaks). 

I’m sorry, I’m not sure how helpful this was! There just aren’t a lot of animals that really are reasonable to have in a classroom setting for the vast majority of classrooms & teachers. If a teacher is very dedicated & has permission from their superiors, they could check into curriculum-based programs that some places run - I remember my Fisheries & Wildlife courses discussing a fish program of some kind. I know sometimes there are programs with chicks in more rural areas, but I’m also rather skeptical of how good those are - it just depends on who the chicks go home with & the care they get. I’m guessing most just turn into farm hens, but still. 

Another potential alternative idea you could include is doing classroom indoor or outdoor (if possible) gardens. Plants generally need less care, but it’d still be a decent lesson in care and could integrate well with a number of science & environment lessons. 

[fbwzoo]

Is it true that off-the-shelf cages for small animals are based on the minimum cage sizes for lab animals, as set by the FDA? All I know is that they're pretty much always too small for the critters they're marketed for!

I’m sorry I took so long to answer this! I was trying to see if I could find a straight answer, but had no luck. Tried to see if I could figure out the likelihood by comparing information, but I’ve been having trouble brain-wise with reading through the requirements, converting numbers from cm to inches, etc. so that didn’t get very far. I think I figured out how to word some thoughts on the matter though, so here we are! Nice long rambly post under the cut about cage sizes for pets versus lab animals. If anyone wants to chime in, please keep things civil. I’m posting this because it’s an interesting discussion & I wanted to do the subject some justice in terms of an answer, despite the fact I can’t say a definite yes or no to the original question.

I’ve never actually heard that before, to be honest. That doesn’t mean it may not be true though. If someone else is better at googling than me or knows for sure, I’d be really curious to know as well. And if it is true, I have some issues with using the same requirements for the two, which is what I was trying to figure out how to word. Because while I understand that people are likely to be upset by the idea of small cages for lab animals (and it’s a subject that people can be quick to get emotional about), there are some various considerations to keep in mind.

First, I agree that the cages are too small for the animals they’re marketed for, particularly because the goals for keeping an animal as a pet are very different from housing lab animals. Generally, the goal of keeping an animal as a pet is to give them a good life (usually the best life possible within the owner’s abilities) & enjoy the companionship of a healthy, happy animal. So people in the community for a particular animal come up with minimum space standards based on their experience & observations of the animals they keep. These requirements can vary a lot from different groups, especially when you get into groups from different countries & continents - for more than one animal I know of, minimum cage recommendations are larger in the UK & other European countries than they are in the US.

As far as the minimum cage sizes for lab animals, there’s a lot more consideration that goes into housing due to the need to ensure regulated air flow, lighting, temperature, humidity, etc., as well as easy monitoring & access to the animals. All of these things affect both the animals and research, so they all factor into the caging set ups. 

If you want to read more about it, this link discusses these factors & also has links to studies on space needs & other factors with housing animals (social housing, density, etc.) - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK54046/  This link also discusses a bit of what goes into determining housing minimums - https://www.aalas.org/about-aalas/position-papers/determining-laboratory-animal-housing-standards#.WaXbzDfQfIX 

Also worth mentioning that minimum space requirements for lab animals vary by country as well. A lot of it depends on the research done & what studies are used to back up the requirements. I’m actually rather curious about the research & would like to try reading some of the studies if I can get a chance, particularly given the second link mentions “In contrast to these European regulations, recent publications from groups in the United States suggest that less space might be beneficial for mice.”. 

I also have an issue with applying one to the other because animal care is much more regulated for lab animals - there are lots of rules & regulations for the monitoring of animal health & well being, as well as changing cages, providing enrichment, etc. There are also regulation groups (such as IACUC, Institutional Animal Care and Use Committee) that must approve of housing & care procedures, as well as any exceptions to the rules for research purposes. They can veto or demand adjustments to programs or protocols if they feel there isn’t a scientific reason to adequately back up an exception, or that any procedures/care don’t comply with the Guide & other standards. There is no such regulation for keeping animals as pets - there’s hardly even any consequences, considering how much animal neglect & abuse is overlooked, particularly for small animals. 

An example - a cage used for a hamster in lab settings may be much smaller than the recommended size for the pet hamster community, but also be hooked up to a ventilated rack that ensures air changes multiple times an hour to keep contaminants in the air to a minimum, the cage gets changed weekly (maybe more) on a strict schedule, and the hamster gets extra daily enrichment from the animal care technician, logged on a sheet for USDA inspection. A similar sized cage being used by a regular pet owner that bought it from Petco may have no extra ventilation, still only be changed once a week, and the hamster received very little extra attention or enrichment because the owner doesn’t know better or care. While the cage size still isn’t ideal in either situation by the pet community’s standards, the first situation still has much better welfare standards than the second.

Basically, it’s a bit like comparing apples to oranges, so to speak, and it’s difficult to apply the same rules to both sides of the situation because there are such different considerations between the two. I would like to see larger minimums for lab animal cage sizes, but I know that’s unlikely to happen without a) research done to back it up and b) people that will push that research forward & use it to prompt a change in the regulations. And that will be extremely difficult, given the amount of money it would take to implement the changes (because yay capitalism~ [sarcasm]). I think that’s about it & I’m shutting up now!

[fbwzoo]

I have two betta tanks I broke down and put away; I rinsed everything well before storing, including the gravel. Should I throw the gravel out before setting up the tanks again? Boil the gravel? Just rinse it well? Thanks!

You should be able to use it again. I would use something to clean it, even just vinegar. As long as you rinse it well afterwards, it should be fine. But I’ll tag this too, see if anyone has specific suggestions!

[fbwzoo]

My two nieces were just given guinea pigs for their birthdays a week ago. They are too young to care for them, so my sister is the primary caretaker. The off-the-store-shelf hab is too small, but I'm working on getting my sister to upgrade to something larger; right now, they get plenty of free range time in a safe pen and are very much loved. They get Oxbow young gp chow and are offered fresh veggies and fruit as treats. Any advice for my sister as she discovers the wonderful world of cavies?

Omg, two words: C&C cages! Examples on this site - https://www.guineapigcagesstore.com/

They can be bought online if your sister isn’t up for the work, but they really are quite easy to DIY! The cubes are typically available from stores like Target, Walmart, etc., or from Amazon. Coroplast can be bought at Home Depot & similar stores, or from local sign stores. And I also reinforced my hedgehog C&C cages with zipties, which are at any hardware store (or also at Walmart & such, with the tools). They’re also really easy to customize for a particular space, which is nice. Coroplast generally wipes clean pretty well, though big cages can sometimes be a pain to get totally wiped down in the back corners. And they’re going to be the best deal for cost for the amount of space you get, which is a big attraction for a lot of people. :)

There are also more cage examples on here that might be nice to show her (plus that really handy graphic that’s currently the first post, on space recs for different number of piggies) - http://amazingpetenclosures.tumblr.com/tagged/guinea-pigs

I checked my bookmarks folder and I’m somewhat appalled at myself, I don’t have any links for guinea pigs (yet)! :( But I know @allanimalsgallore has a few, and I’ll tag this post to see if anyone else can chime in with more advice. And if anyone has any forums, good care sheets, and/or good care/reference sites for guinea pigs, I’m sure they’d be helpful for comicbookmama’s sister & I’d also love to have them for future reference!!

[fbwzoo]

What do you think of the Institute of Cytology and Genetics domesticated fox project? Do you think it could, or should, affect the breeding practices of exotic pet breeders?

I read an article about it in National Geographic a few years ago, but I don’t remember a ton about it. I was hoping I’d have a chance to read up a bit more before trying to answer this, but at this point, I’d have to wait another week or so (minimum) & didn’t want to make you think I was ignoring the question!

From what I remember, I’m a bit “ehhhh” *wobbly-hands* on the ethics of it. While people largely focus on the “breed friendly foxes to get friendlier foxes” part of the project, I think I remember reading that the other side of this was breeding aggressive ones in a similar manner, and those ones were destroyed. 

The basics I remember of the breed-friendly-animals part of it was that they were actively selecting for calm, people-oriented, friendly animals, and thus started getting various traits like floppy ears, tail wagging, and piebald animals? And the animals also progressively became more people-oriented, enjoyed receiving attention & affection & so on.

As far as I know, that’s already kind of a large goal in exotic pet breeders, or at least it is for the main one I’m familiar with - hedgehogs. Generally for responsible, ethical breeders, the first concern is health, second is sometimes confirmation (depending on the animal), and second or third is temperament. It seems to be generally agreed that the parents should be of sound temperament if you plan to breed them, otherwise there’s more chance of things going wrong with babies & being unable to intervene, or babies picking up bad habits, anxieties, etc. from the parents.

I’m not sure if that necessarily answers your question, I guess? Sorry I couldn’t give this as in-depth of a reply as I’d like to. But I’d be very interested if anyone else wants to weigh in or comment, either with more information on the project (last I heard, they were kind of stalled due to lack of funds?), opinions on the question of exotic pet breeding, etc.

[fbwzoo]

comicbookmama replied to your post: For my masters project, I wrote a book for...

Thanks for the advice; I’m also not keen on class pets pets the way most are currently treated, which is why I chose the project. The only other book on the subject is - I kid you not - titled THEY DON’T HAVE TO DIE, which is pretty telling. I appreciate your honesty, because really, unless the teacher is really willing to go the extra mile, they shouldn’t have a class pet at all.

...Yikes. It is a very good project to work on & I thank you for taking it on! I hope it goes well. :) It’d be really useful information to be able to spread to teachers and maybe improve the state of the situation. I’d love to get an update on how it’s going once you’re further along! And of course, let me know if I can help out any more.

[blueberrybamf]

comicbookmama replied to your post: Character headcanons

Hawkeye - and what’s a cinnamon roll?

( Cinnamon roll:  A character that is very kind and sweet but faces more hardship and suffering than they truly deserve. Comes from the usage of an article headline from 'The Onion' titled 'Beautiful Cinnamon Roll Too Good For This World, Too Pure.' to describe a person or character that is very good but faces a lot of pain in their life.

or rolled dough spread with cinnamon and sugar (and raisins) then sliced before baking, but i don’t think that’s what we are talking about here)

Also i know so little about Hawkeye, im sorry, just what ive seen in the movies

1: sexuality headcanon : Apparently he has a wife and kids but that dosnt mean much. Could be Ace.

2: otp: *shrug*

3: brotp: Natasha/ Quicksilver and Scarlet witch

4: notp: not really big on the forced sudden family but thats more of a story plot problem i dunno how the character actually gets along lol. 

5: first headcanon that pops into my head : He loves dogs.

6: one way in which I relate to this character : the sarcasm (tho its mostly in my head)

7: thing that gives me second hand embarrassment about this character: how he was magically turned into a family man 8: cinnamon roll or problematic fave? Cinnamon roll. 

[sneakronicity]

comicbookmama replied to your post “SECRET EMPIRE #2 SPOILERS! SPOILER SPOILER. ALL THE SPOILERS! YOU HAVE...”

So this happened after the hookup in the maintenance room? Drat.

Yeah, although the issue was released after, the maintenance room hookup appears to be how this new thing between them started up again.

Here’s hoping we get something else good with them before this event is over!  *crosses fingers*