#daetalk

[acaciapines]

hello !! what are your thoughts on actors and acting in a world with daemons ? how do you think they would work ?

oooh this is super interesting...i've been thinking over this most of the day and i honestly think there wouldnt be a lot of like, huge and drastic changes. i do think people would cast for appearance of the human actor AND the daemon actor, so there would 100% be casting calls that would be like 'canine daemons only' because whatever character youre auditioning for would have a canine daemon.

BUT ALSO i think there'd be like. daemon costumes!! for places where you need a specific form but your actor isnt settled as such--like, maybe youre doing a documentary about a real person who settled as a parrot, and your actor is AWESOME but a rat. so there's a rat with a parrot costume :3 i feel like this would be more common on stage than on screen (think like, if youve ever seen the costumes of lion king on broadway, thats sorta the vibe i could see), since i feel like CGI tech would make it a tad easier to pass off one animal as another.

like i dont think cgi would replace a daemon actor entirely (to me thats like casting a human actor, and then using cgi to turn them into an entirely different person) but you would use cgi like how cgi is used today, like i know some cgi is used for costuming and stuff. so maybe a daemon has a sort of green screen type costume and thats how you get some species-changes, but like, their face and general shape is still their own.

on the same thread of movies/tv/shows etc, i do think on average there'd actually be less characters per show...like a show in our world would have four main characters, but a show in a world with daemons would have two--because the daemons are characters now too! so this might mean acting is even more competitive than it is today, since there's just less roles even if theres the same number of productions.

tho this varies based on how you present daemons in your world lol, in my 'ideal' sort of daemon-world they'd get as much sceentime as their human counterparts so you'd just have to cut down on total characters, but i write worlds where things are Not good for daemons lol.

along those lines i bet theres also daemon forms that are more vs less likely to get cast--i tend to go canine + feline are the most desired and thus like. "uplifted" forms so every hero has a lion etc, so if you wanna act but youre a sea slug you are going to struggle a LOT to be cast, bc productions would be like sorry we just need dogs <3 i think there would be a mammal bias and i wonder if there'd be anti-discrimination laws passed about this? i feel like that would be really contentious in-universe though, like a thing often argued about--people like, there are totally roles for snakes! (theyre only villian parts). or you can get cast with a fish daemon! (you will never get a main part and most of the time cant even get an extra part because its "too much work" to make the space fish-daemon accessible.) basically you can take this a lot of ways too!

if anyone else has ideas feel free to add on! or send me asks about unrelated daemon topics. i love talking about daemons :3

[acaciapines]

deltarune daemonism thoughts?

lol i actually dont have many...i dont write daemon aus unless i think adding daemons will enhance the story i am trying to tell and in regards to deltarune adding daemons doesnt...like, help, in any way? part of that is that i dont think monsters have daemons, the other part of that is all of kris's issues are better explored through them being nonhuman and adding a daemon sorta just complicates that.

back before c2 dropped (like RIGHT before i was writing this thing september 2021) i did try to write a deltarune daemon au actually, but once c2 dropped it quickly fell to the wayside and all of the ideas i wanted to explore in that au were stolen and brought to a lot of my oneshots in that time period, basically everything good about that daemon au ended up somewhere in my kris&ralsei&player series here. the last bastion of the deltarune daemon au was pan but he's got a home now in drk and i have no desires or thoughts about daemons in dr.

i feel like the only thing i never was able to port over from that au was the fact that it was a twine game and theoretically if i ever were to do something with daemons and deltarune i do think it would still be through the lens of the soul/player and thus be made in twine. but even then thats better severed without muddling messages by adding daemons, so.

[acaciapines]

any advice on writing daemons eefarding their personalities and how they interact with their humans?

it's going to depend on the story you want to tell!

as for how i tend to do it, i for one am i huge fan of "let the daemons TALK" so i will go out of my way to do so lol, if a daemonfic of mine has a world in which daemons don't tend to talk it is 1000% for a specific thematic reason.

when i create my daemon characters, i tend to think about where i might split a character in two! so, for luz and mari, the point was obvious--a lot of luz's story in the owl house is about choosing between humans and witches and so when you've got a human and a daemon, it's pretty easy to just assign each half to opposing sides.

a lot of my character work is as i like to call it 'vibes based' where im not entirely sure how to explain what my process is, because if im not actively doing it i struggle to put together the words. i think humans and daemons should be mirroring each other in some way, but also i think how exactly that comes to be will depend heavily on the story you want to tell.

...my best advice really is just jump in and start writing, lol. if that's a bit too intimidating, then sitting down and just writing out your ideas can go a long way! why are you adding daemons to this story? what do you want to say? these don't need to have paragraph-long answers (though they can) but it helps to pick away at the core of your reasoning and from there its easier to build up.

[acaciapines]

I just had a thought: do you think that in a world where daemons are out & about as an everyday fact of life, societies would veer more towards largely pedestrian, just because a lot of settled daemons might not be able to fit into vehicles?

okay so i've been thinking about this nonstop since you sent it lol and i am. going to go on a very long answer. so um apologizes in advance??? i'm sure i'll answer the question somewhere. the short answer is do whatever you want forever, and likely in a real-world scenario it would be a sort of case-by-case basis on the local cultural values and historical patterns of settling.

my gut answer is "no," actually, for a few different reasons. i have a few different ways of writing worlds with daemons based on what i want to say with the story, but most of them are sort of based on interrogating the text of his dark materials because it presents a very interesting and incredibly unsatisfying picture of daemons, at least to me. and so because of that, i think a core concept is like, okay, what DO people settle as??

because, like, that's what this question is based on--this idea of, what do people settle as? i think probably early human societies would veer pedestrian, but i also think early human societies wouldnt actually settle young, or maybe even at all. bc of how hard survival is back then, the ability to change form is like, a premium. its sort of a privilege for a daemon to settle as a sparrow, and not, like, need to be a wolf sometimes to defend the town's sheep, or a horse to haul up the materials for building. i think actual animals would still be used for these tasks, but like, if you can turn into a horse, sometimes its easier to just do it yourself, rather than having to build trust with an animal, you know?

but blah blah blah, things keep developing. people want to go further, and keep pushing further. so, we are still going to get ships, because sea travel is still really hard even if half of you can turn into an orca whale. and i think as societies develop so too do like, humans put meanings onto the animals around them, and now settling SAYS something about a person, and i feel like you can come up with all sort of stigmas. like, if you settle as a working animal (think horses, oxen, etc) you're seen as inherently lower class than someone who settles as a lion. and now its a bit easier to keep the predators away, so people dont need to hold out on settling for so long, and now theres MEANING behind settling. and this means you can do it wrong.

so, like, what i'm getting as here is i think most people would end up settling pretty small anyways. like, big dog-sized being the larger end of things. if you look at hdm there's already a mammal bias, if you look at daemonfic as a whole there's a canine and feline bias, and i think this would hold true in a real world situations, too. settled form is (as i write it) influenced very much by what a kid is exposed to growing up--as time goes on the idea is you settle younger, and younger, and you settle as the RIGHT sort of animal, the sorts that are good and noble and say something good. you dont settle as, like, a sea cucumber. and an elephant, well--thats so BIG! you really like to take up space, dont you? how...interesting.

and so as things industrialize i think trains, cars, planes all still come to be. i think the expectation is you settle smaller to make up for it. lowkey i think something like the americans with disabilities act is passed for people with larger daemons, but i think the same sort of stuff happens--like, yeah, this school is accessible for people with bison-daemons! you have to call ahead so somebody can set up the fright elevator for you, and you can't go out in the main halls, and like, maybe it follows the law technically, but. like. its not great.

um. basically i think a world with daemons (if we base it off of HDM, which i do more often than not these days) has a lot of biases and discrimination regarding settled form that would lead to places not really being any better than they are today. because the assumption is you settle small. and if you dont settle small, well thats a you problem, isnt it? its not for the "normal" people to fix.

BUT ALL THAT SAID i think a society that is more pedestrian is also perfectly plausible. i think its just down to what sort of story you want to tell. and right now the most recent daemon au i wrote is my owl house daemon au, wherein the way i built out the human world was entirely based on my issues with hdm, and the entire central conflict on the story is around the idea of settling, so...this.

uh, i hope that answers things! feel free to send in followups lol i have Many Thoughts About Daemons.

[acaciapines]

I am completely willing to hear a rant on why the ending of amber spyglass fucked over Lyra and pan. I always thought it was off, but I don’t know why to be honest

dfklghgh so the honest answer is. its been years since ive read hdm. im sure if i reread them now i might have Thoughts and Feelings but i cant give a rant about things i read years ago and only half-remember.

but!! in my long daemonfic trends post i talk about my issues with lyra and pan in hdm!!! and that was made after i'd recently read the books, so the information is actually up to date and i still stand by what i said there! i also have the tag 'daetalk' which might have more posts about them in there, but i truly do not remember.

the long and short of it from what i remember is simply that hdm and i have very different thoughts on daemons and how important they are to both society and their respective other half. hdm is more interested in the relationship between lyra and will than lyra and pan and due to that pan ends up sidelined by the end of it. (also kirjava. oh my god kirjava). hdm might be where daemons are from but i have taken them and ran and i will fistfight pullman in a parking lot over this.

[acaciapines]

what's up with kirjava? (unless i am an idiot and did not catch when you mentioned them)

nothing is really up with her...from what i remember i just. felt bad for her lol. shes will's daemon! will GETS a daemon!! and kirjava has like. maybe two, three appearances. i get why we cant dive so deep into her--as much as i'd love a book about will and kirjava in out world dealing w having/being a daemon in a world that doesn't understand that, hdm doesnt have time to go there--but i just wished that she got a little bit more, that her importance to will was like, shown better. thats the other half of his soul! let them TALK!!!

[acaciapines]

taking the initative - how does having a daemon work for Hunter? given, you know, everything about grimwalkers. I'm also super interested in how you worked out the Azura series!

he he :333 i'll put this under a cut since hunters Deal is a pretty big thing we unpack over the course of the daemon au so. technically spoilers!! if you wanna wait a year til it comes out or somehow came across this while i was posting the fic.

anyways! so hunter is a freak of nature (affectionate) even by grimwalker standards njgdfg. but before we get into that i gotta do some ~term definition~ cause both daemons and palismen exist in this world and its important you know what i mean when i use em!

daemon: we know them. we love them. what you think of when i say 'daemon au.' creatures made entirely of dust that are the other half of a human, who can change shape up until they settle (around 12 years of age), and have a set range based on their form of how far they can go from said human, with most being between like 10-20 feet. daemons are born when their human is like, 6 months to a year old, slowly forming until they've got enough dust to take their first form.

palismen: the other half of a witch. palismen are born with their witches at palistrom trees--pregnant witches seek out a palistrom tree thats calling to baby and give birth there, and when the witch-baby is born a part of the palistrom tree will break off (usually leaves, twigs, branches, in the past berries + flowers) and become their palisman. palismen can change form up until a witch settles (typically upon joining a coven at 18), and until they settle have no set range--witch and palisman can go as far from each other as they want.

anyways with THAT out of the way, for all intents and purposes golden guards, seeing as they're all grimwalkers of a human, work on the human-side of things. but hunter and fidelity/flapjack (will be using flapjack for clarity's sake going forwards) use witch and palisman respectively since that's the world they grew up in lol.

all living creatures have some sort of connection to dust. for humans this is daemons, for witch palismen, demons have a variety of ways (some have flowers, some are connected to specific places, ex. hooty to the owl house, etc). so, every single living thing is in some way connected to the world around it. this includes hunter!

so, for most of the grimwalkers, they were made of caleb's bones. so, they were pulled out of the ground, and when they were their daemons formed--since grimwalkers Grow underground for a while their dust has the time to build up into their daemon. but see. belos might have made a little mistake in how often he murdered grimwalkers cause come hunter's time and he might. just a little bit. be out of caleb bones. whoopsie! but, you know, he does have some of caleb's daemon's dust, left. that's the same as bone, right?

and thus we get hunter and flapjack. flapjack is the grimwalker--her ortet was the dust of fidelity, caleb's daemon, and so she's dragged out of the ground as a wolfhound, the same form fidelity settled as. flapjack is entirely flesh and blood and has no ability to change. she is, technically, the witch.

but hunter.

needless to say belos was not expecting a weird little witch-baby, that's for certain!

now of course flapjack and hunter do Not know any of this at the start lol, and there's a bit more to it than this (hunter doesnt know he can change form! hmm, i wonder why....), but i need to keep some of my secrets.

as for azura! its not entirely worked out yet (i did just come up with the idea like, a few days ago so ive got some stuff to add in the edits), but the general idea of it is that when luz's dad was dying he very much left her the azura books on purpose. luz and mari have always very obviously stood out from their peers (its the neruodivergency) and as they approached 12 and still weren't settled, and as mari more often than not spoke for luz which is a HUGE no-no (daemons, after all, arent supposed to speak....)

yeah so camila + manny were terrified for her lol. thus azura! in my mind the azura books are very interested in taking the term witch--in my human world sort of the common word for what is medicalized as 'bond disorders,' ie, someone who doesnt settle by 12-13, someone who doesnt WANT to settle, a daemon who speaks when they should have grown out of this--and saying, hey, guys, uh, what the fuck?

so, azura is a witch! i imagine like witches of legend azura (in my eyes being the daemon's name, not that i know what the human would be named lol) wouldn't have a range, and would be various bird-forms. it explores ideas of teenagers not settling, and struggling to figure out who you are when 'who you are' is a thing you do not get to change, and people who do settle do so as daemon-forms that are ALSO medicalized (think, fish. which is the daemon luz's dad had! not sure what fish yet, but he had a fish :D)

basically: I Have A Lot Of Thoughts. Ha. Ha. hope you enjoyed them!

[acaciapines]

so....abt that adventure time daemon au....sits down with folded hands. im SO SO curious as to what your thoughts are and lowkey wondering if theyre anything like what ive been cooking up in my twisted mind...slash joke...YOU GO FIRST I WANNA KNOW!!

jkdfgdjfkg yeah im gonna focus on the fionna + cake aspects since thats what i posted but if you wanna know about someone else send a followup!! i have the strongest ideas for marceline and more scattered thoughts on everyone else but!! i turn this around in my head a lot lol.

under the cut bc i am incapable of being short

so. the reason fionna world is Like It Is despite nominally being a human au is bc i decided that in ooo, humans are the only people with daemons! everyone else has Something Else, but that something else isnt actually a daemon (this bit is still fuzzy lol since it would just be more bg in anything i write).

so that means the only characters in adventure time who have/had a daemon are finn (tossing around the name honey for her?? shes unsettled but mostly dogs bc they grew up with dogs lol), marceline (she lost her daemon upon becoming a vampire, gets her back at the end of stakes. do not ask me what she is settled as idk as of now lol), and simon (lost her upon becoming ice king, he does Not get her back. i think its fun if she is a penguin bc that makes ice king surrounding himself w penguins super tragic. he knows something is gone but cannot articulate what.)

also i guess people like susan strong and the humans on the human island but shhhh i dont have super strong ideas for them lol.

ALL THAT TO SAY. since fionnaworld was created by prismo (gonna be real idk what his deal is but he is obviously His Own Thing and as a deity type deal he probably is granted w 'can see dust' powers and thus has no idea what daemons are all about) and lives in ice kings/later simons head (one who doesnt know about daemons and one who is mourning the permanent loss of his own) when fionna and cake were "created" finn jake and finn's daemon were mashed into two characters, who are! human and daemon.

everyone else either never had a daemon in normal ooo (ex. pb) or didnt have them at the time fionnaworld was created and thus they werent carried over (ex. marceline.) of everyone tho probably marshall WOULD know the most, this is why he has a line in my fic where he's like, do you know what i'd do for a weird cat? as a sort of hint that he SHOULD have a daemon, but. alas.

uhhh. where am i going with this.

OH RIGHT so yeah basically when fionnaworld became de-magicked it took with it a lot of people's points of connection--everyone ends up way more isolated than they were. since simon is mourning his own daemon that translates to daemons just Not Existing, and so fionna and cake are very much isolated from each other. they dont have the words for their relationship. all fionna knows is she needs cake with her, and vice versa.

cake IS still a daemon, but without that framework shes stuck in the 'normal cat' role even though she does a lot of noncatlike things, n her and fionna are very very good still at sorta knowing what the other is thinking and reacting accordingly. the people closest to fionna (so, really just marshall and gary lol) have SOME idea of what is up but if asked its more leftover instinct than like, the ability to actually explain any of this. fionna and cake try to interact w the world as a human-daemon pair but that doesnt work when the world has no fucking idea what that is.

uh. that. probably answers some question!! i think the plot of fionna and cake itself is MOSTLY the same...really fionna and cake just find out there is a word for who they are to each other n get that relationship reestablished which isnt a far cry from canon. i really like the stuff they do with betty/simon so i wouldnt want to change that, though i imagine there is a bit of simon mourning his lost daemon too--idk i feel like you could tie those feelings in if you were to write a full adaptation but i!! dont think enough changes to do that so i wont be lol.

i mostly just wanted to do episode one bc again. daemon in a world that doesnt know wtf a daemon is. truly the funniest and most tragic thing in the world.