#dead legends

[deadletterpoets]

Some of y'all have never read Dead Legends and it shows.

[majingojira]

I don't get why some think that Connor should beat Damian. Damian has beaten Cyborg, took down Gotham Girl [a meta on the same level as Superman] and recently beat Deathstroke just to name a few. I know that Connor is a bad arse [pre flashpoint Connor for sure] but Damian is also a bad arse as well with the feats to prove it.

Let me tell you a different reason beyond "Conner Hawke is on a level of Skill Damian hasn't shown yet" and 'victories' don't matter much given this is a test of pure martial arts. That is like saying Batman is the best martial artist because he can pull all sorts of gadgets and resources together and defeat Superman (or at least hold his own for a while, a lot of people like to miss-remember certain elements of The Dark Knight Returns to make their fave look better). I'll get to that, but this is more important. If Damian wins it would undo his entire character arc in this series, undermine everything he has learned, and make him into what people fear he is in a metanarrative sense: An entitled pet character. Damian's journey in Robin has been about tempering his ego and learning to better connect with others. Now, this is a common story point seen in characters like him, see Laura Kinney:

Basically, Damian learned to open up more in the last Robin solo series (Robin: Son of Batman), had those lessons forgotten and utterly undermined in the subsequent Teen Titans run, so now we are telling that story again and hoping no one will notice.

Before it was with Superboy/Jon Kent, Goliath, and Nobody II/Maya Ducard. Now, it's with Rose, Flatline, and Hawke.

He came here to 'prove he was the best,' and was humbled several times (by Flatline, by Connor, and by Rose, as well as the "Your dad is way cooler than you'll ever be" moment). If he wins now, straight out wins, it basically proves what he came here to learn rather than what he NEEDED to learn. Characters in fiction often have a goal they want to achieve put in contrast with what the character NEEDs to achieve.

If he wins, he learns nothing. He ends up being basically handed the title of 'the best,' doesn't really have any of the growth he undergoes mean anything even before it's reset, and the whole "He's the actual SON of Batman, and that matters more than the accomplishments of anyone else!" nepotism that hangs over the character takes over.

And when you look at the lineup, it's really lacking. Aside from Hawke, among DC Martial Artists, only Constance Drakon is a character who 'rates' anything.

And he is sorely misused.

Who are DC's top 10? Well, that is partly a matter of opinion, but for those who keep track of such things, but there are a few fan-accrued takes on it that speak to it.

Here's one such list which has justifications for their placement and how they have done against each other.

Here's a visualization of another take:

The tiers put them roughly on par with each other, with the order only who has won more than the others.

On both lists, we have Karate Kid from the Legion of Superheroes as the undisputed best. Why?

Because he Kung Fus as Dragon Ball Z levels and can karate Daxamites unconscious.

Then we have Cassandra Cain and the students of the Sensei, also known as the Kung Fu Trio: Shiva, Richard Dragon, and Bronze Tiger. In roughly that order of skill for various reasons.

Then you have B-Tier. B-Tier has Constance Dracon at the top because of how many times he's defeated the others in this list, and that list includes:

Connor Hawk

Black Canary

White Canary

Wild Cat

Bruce Wayne

I-Ching

Among other sundry martial artists, but those are the marquee value names.

And in case you don't remember, I-Ching trained both Wonder Woman and Super-Man in the martial arts. When one of your students is literally a Goddess of War, you know you have skill.

So, are you okay with Damian Wayne, all 100lbs of him, being able to defeat his Dad in a straight-up Martial Arts contest? Black Canary? Wild Cat?

Because that's the 'house' he's playing in if he wins cleanly here, that's the 'tier' he'll be placed in.

And it just doesn't make sense.

Throw in his Training.

Damian trained with the League of Shadows since he was little, but he also left their tutelage at the age of 10. He then trained with Dick Grayson, Bruce Wayne, and got some touch-ups with his dad.

Black Canary, by contrast, has trained for longer, and with better teachers: Wild Cat, Richard Dragon, and Lady Shiva. She manages to hold her own in the Justice League with her martial arts alone. She didn't always have the Canary Cry after all.

Cassandra Cain trained with her father, David Cain (B-Tier) for 8 years since birth, but was done so in a unique way to give her an edge her mother has: Body Reading as a primary language. This included training with Bronze Tiger. She then retrained a little with Bruce, but mostly trains herself to improve and better herself because she enjoys what she is physically capable of doing. That combination of Skill, Drive, and Body Reading justifies her victories and gets her a place in A-Tier. That and defeated Shiva 2/3 times in their various clashes.

Do you really see Damian defeated Lady "I can shove two fingers through a man's skull as fast as most people blink" Shiva purely on Martial Arts?

Now, these lists exclude metas and are of 'pure martial arts' but Deathstroke for instance would be High B, low A, along with Rose who is also partial combat precognitive like Cassandra.

Cassandra defeated Rose twice.

When rating a Martial Arts character at DC, you really need to note the following:

Who have they trained with?

Who have they defeated via skill without interference or gadget-try?

And in Damian's case, the fact that he's half the size of everyone else makes it harder to justify. F=MA after all.

Defeating a meta is good, but not great example of their skill, and how they do it matters a lot. Like I said, Batman defeating Superman with a mech doesn't really speak about his martial arts all that much.

But really, the narrative problems Damian winning would cause are far more important and damaging than any dick-measuring contest stuff it would give a person as a fan of the character.

Oh, Damian is declared the best martial artist in DC? All it will be is a declaration and nepotism as Bruce Wayne's son no matter what he does, it will be hollow and unearned. Him NOT getting it is more important for his character than him achieving it.

It's like... This is the exact reason why of all the Dragon Ball Z movies, only ONE is actually reasonably good: Battle of Gods.

This is precisely because Goku, the hero, does NOT win. Martial Arts isn't about being The Best or defeating a foe. It's about conquering and mastering only oneself.

This is why Dead Legends remains one of THE BEST tournament stories in the western canon. Because our heroine achieves her revenge in the tournament and denies becoming its champion.

This defeats the man running it so thoroughly that it is one of the most satisfying non-action climaxes I have ever seen.

If you think Robin has been a great tournament story so far, read Dead Legends and be prepared to be blown away.

So, double-check your feats, understand why narrative is more important, and read up on some good kung-fu comics.

[dirtyriver]

Iron Fist #3, written by Ed Brisson, art by Mike Perkins

Dead Legends #4, written by James Maddox, art by Gavin Smith

If your kung fu tournament comic doesn't have a zillion-panel (mostly) silent page, is it really a kung fu tournament comic?

[hellyeahheroes]

Gavin Smith on Twitter

“Hey everybody! I posted the whole first issue of Dead Legends #1 on my Instagram page! Check it out here: https://t.co/IiihSnBtU4 and if you don’t already give me a follow. Written: @jamescmaddox, art by me, letters: @ryanwriter, edits: @JosephPIllidge, pub: @AWaveBlueWorld”

Gavin Smith just psoted entire first issue of indie action series he illustrated, Dead Legends, on his Instragram.

- Admin

[dirtyriver]

Dead Legends II, original art by Gavin Smith

[deadletterpoets]

Episode 1 - Dead Legends

In the debut episode of Comics with B&W, Bobby and Wilson discuss the action-packed tribute to classic martial arts movies, Dead Legends

In the debut episode of Comics with B&W, Bobby and Wilson discuss the action-packed tribute to classic martial arts movies, Dead Legends.

[dirtyriver]

Splash page from Dead Legends II by Gavin Smith, coming in 2021

[dirtyriver]

Dead Legends #4, written by James Maddox, art by Gavin Smith–an all-silent issue allowing the artist to showcase his visual storytelling prowess.