#denningverse

[randomwritingguy]

I just finished Legacy of the Force and it was absolutely dreadful. There were some good bits like the stuff with Ben Skywalker and Boba Fett but overall it was garbage. It ruined so many characters to varying degrees, Jacen Solo being the one hurt the most. Everyone is either stupid or out of character or both.

Star Wars ended with The Unifying Force. Nothing happened afterwards.

[dxnniquee]

What books/arcs comprise the Denningverse?

Hey anon ! So basically what is called the Denningverse starts with the Dark Nest trilogy and ends with Crucible. Troy Denning isn’t the sole writer but he did a majority of books (the DN trilogy, Legacy of the Force : Tempest / Inferno / Invincible, Fate of the Jedi : Abyss / Vortex / Apocalypse and Crucible). Basically and that’s my very own opinion, he screwed up all the world building and character development that the NJO settled. (Spoilers coming)

Having Jacen turned to the Dark Side isn’t a bad idea but the way it was written was awful. Almost all were out of characters, and weakly written. You have Tahiri trying to seduce Ben and that’s pedophilia. You have Ben being an abusing boyfriend to Vestara. Vergere is also depicted as a Sith which is totally stupid towards the NJO and especially Traitor. Danni is erased from the Galaxy’s surface after The Swarm War. Jaina kills her own brother and Luke, Han and Leia agree to it. You also have Abeloth, a very powerful entity that basically acts like GLOUB GLOUB BLURBB throughout the Fate of the Jedi. Allana Solo is a super strengthened eight years who greatly kills and shots people. Luke is Grand Master of the Jedi Order and does not seem to care about his family. The only good points come with Traviss’ books and her Lumiya’s depiction. She is the cold and calculating villain we needed.

Once again, this is just my opinion and I know a lot of people who happen to love the Denningverse. I suggest you to read it if you want to have your own opinion ! Have a nice day / night anon !

[englishlaboratory]

What was Vergere?

I'm about to crack open a very niche, very hotly debated topic regarding everyone's favorite Fosh from 2007-2012. My personal answer is 'Grey Jedi', but I'll list all the arguments here using the books, ancient forums, and Wookiepedia. Refutations to each of the 3 theories can be found at the last point of each theory. Page numbers and sources will be provided when possible. Page numbers will not be used if the source/quote appears more than once throughout a book. Please note that I am biased.

1. Vergere is a Jedi

-This theory only works if you only use Destiny's Way, Cloak of Darkness, Rogue Planet, and Outbound Flight. I have not read CoD or RP.

- RP and CoD make references to her time in the Jedi Order. OF refers to her as a missing Jedi.

- She tells Luke she's a Jedi from the Republic in chapter 11 of Destiny's way.

- DW and Force Heretic 3: Reunion establish Vergere's been either on Zonama Sekot or with the Yuuzhan Vong for 50 years. CoD and RP make it closer to 60 to accommodate for the prequels. Regardless, it's established she was a Jedi prior to leaving. She couldn't have encountered Sith teachings on her trip, as she was outside the known galaxy for most of it.

- Nobody actually believes this; it just shows up in forums as a joke argument. Vergere's ideals and allegiances contradict this In Traitor (this book will be cited heavily), Force Heretic 3: reunion, The Unifying Force, and any book that mentions her by Troy Denning (see the Sith evidence). It still has better evidence and makes more sense than the Vergere is a Sith argument.

2. Vergere is a Grey Jedi

- This theory is most supported by fans of the New Jedi Order series.

- Vergere tells Jacen "There are no Jedi here" when asked point blank on page 9 of Traitor.

-She gets angry when Jacen calls her a Sith on page 65 and 66 of Traitor because she hates the binary.

- In page 31 of Traitor, Nom Anor thinks about how interpretation is synonymous with propaganda and lies. This mirrors Vergere's repeated ideals throughout the book ("Everything I tell you is a lie," "Questions are more true than answers", and "[Wisdom/Truth] Is there any other kind?").

- On pages 145 and 146 of Traitor, she asks how to identify the dark side. Answering with 'intent' or 'action' fails to satisfy the question.

- Across Traitor, Destiny's Way, FH3: Reunion, and The Unifying Force, she is established to believe that the Force is one; the light and dark sides are social constructs. She still maintains that the Sith are evil; this evil just doesn't stem from their powersource.

- She repeatedly expresses disappointment when Jacen Solo takes the Jedi Mantle in Traitor and DW.

- This theory has some trouble explaining her torture of Jacen Solo, and it requires a VERY specific interpretation of a scene in the Legacy comic and a dismissal of evidence found in books in both the Legacy of the Force series and the Fate of the Jedi series (Both by Troy Denning).

3. Vergere is a Sith

- Troy Denning really wanted to make Vergere a Sith, and fans of his work are more likely to use this theory.

- Vergere is not a Jedi, so Sith is the only other "canon" option. [Grey Jedi laugh in the background]

- In pages 415-417 of Betrayal, Lumiya tells Jacen Solo that Vergere was her former Sith Master.

- An unnamed Sith Lady tells Alema Rar that Vergere was a Sith trained by Palpatine and that the purpose of her Zonama Sekot trip was to escape him after betraying her. The lady also corroborates Lumiya's story.

- I haven't read the books, but Luke apparently makes a comment about Vergere being a Sith in the FOTJ series.

- Legacy Comic #18 part 5 has an interaction between Darth Krayt and Vergere on a Vongship that mirrors Traitor. He senses darkness in her and asks her to teach him; Vergere agrees to do so.

- The Vergere wiki article and Behind the Threat: The Sith by Wizards of the Coast attribute her to the Sith faction.

- Jedi vs Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force states that characters who never met Vergere also believe her to be a Sith (from Wiki, I haven't read it). (How this is evidence is beyond me, as the characters never met her and so are irrelevant to the debate.)

- This theory falls apart with the timeline; Vergere didn't have the time to be trained by Palpatine and betray him before her odyssey. Lumiya also became a Dark Lady after Vergere left but before Vergere returned with the Yuuzhan Vong. Critics will readily point out the unreliability of an unnamed Sith Lady and Lumiya as sources on the matter, the aforementioned timeline, and the fact that the Legacy comic scene never actually uses the word 'Sith'. Behind the Threat can be disregarded because it says Vergere trained Lumiya during the Legacy Era, at least 5 years after Vergere died. The Wookepedia article does not acknowledge the timeline but does acknowledge the flaws in the evidence but still decides to ignore the ambiguities and call Vergere a Sith.