The way Tim dismissed Lucy at the end was just gross, even if he has 'secret' feelings for her. She must have whiplash.
Also adding his name to her card wasn't 'so married' like fans what to believe it was gross and taking advantage of her kind spirit.
I will say after the van scene it's clear to me he knows she has a crush on him.
Until they fix her character and she finds some self respect she's Lapdog Lucy
Super gross. Could be the most weakly written scene of the season and that's saying something.
Apparently this is the guy behind the New Blood retcon so that's two for two on the worst scenes award.
The card thing didn't read well for me either because I think it's ugly that they made Tim moralise to Lucy about the things that matter and being trivial when Nolan is in hospital, but also... he doesn't care enough to get his own card and leeches off Lucy's caring forethought. Yet Lucy is still the one who comes out of that scene looking superficial and silly.
I think it would have been better for Lucy to automatically include Tim's name on the card because she knows he won't get anything. That might have implied married energy.
And if they absolutely had to have this bet plot and end it in a tie it should have been a mutual, serious conversation between Lucy and Tim.
Here's my back of a napkin version that nobody asked for:
Tim: Lucy. Hey, about that bet-
Lucy: I know. Kind of puts things in perspective, right?
Tim: Yeah. [Tense pause] Look, I know I haven't been that focused lately, and that's on me. It's still my job to supervise you.
[awkward look full of unspoken tension]
Lucy: Yeah. I guess I wanted to talk to you about that. I kind of got the feeling-
Harper: [shows up out of nowhere] HEY GUYS, YOU HERE TO VISIT NOLAN TOO?
[awkward looks x100000]
Lucy: Oh, uh, yeah. [Showing Harper the basket]
Harper: [reading it with slight sarcasm] 'Love Lucy and Tim'. Cute.
[Tim gives explain yourself eyebrow-raise to Lucy]
Lucy: Oh, what, like you were ever going to get him your own card?
I doubt the writers and producers care about our issues with the writing or even realise that we have issues. Ninety five percent of comments on the hashtags and the producer's @ mentions on twitter seem to be composed of sycophantic praise, which the writers and producers often reply to in a self congratulatory, self satisfied manner. The few constructively critical tweets I saw were just buried in the white noise of uncritical adulation, easy for them to ignore among the rest.
Yeah, I wanted to talk about this because there's been an uptick in the same kind of preachy posts about "harassing" the cast and crew and I'm just finding a disconnect with the reality here.
I think there's some projection going on with some fans who say that the cast and crew will be upset by commentary when actually what they mean is I'm upset by commentary.
Hence posts trying to shame others and gatekeep cast and crew on social media, instructing others not to 'harass' them with upsetting content.
So who are we talking about anyway?
There's the top dog show producers, and let's face it. Alexi Hawley and Jon Steinberg are not crying into their cup o' soup at the end of a long hard day of being told their episodes are subpar by a random fan on Twitter.
They're just not.
They just won't even pay attention to most of it. Jon gives the image of engaging a lot but the volume is such that he's just not going to be leafing through this stuff taking notes. Most of the comments they get are just repetitive noise, anyway. Same questions and pleas. Plus he actually drives it with his misleading comments and emojis when he could just leave it well alone.
Ultimately these are very established industry professionals and middle aged men. They know how this goes. And they should be told when they're entering dangerous territory with their show content, which they are.
Now, cast members. I agree there's less point whining to them, because what can they do? They're trying to keep down a job and they don't make the rules here. But equally, do they need protecting from critical views? Probably not.
Eric's a 45 year old man who's spent his entire adult life in LA. He's been in this business 20 years. He's also deliberately stoking up fans with things like Cameo. He's just not going to sit there and cry over someone saying they think The Rookie has gone downhill. Plus, if you check his @s on Twitter, which I just briefly scanned for the last day's worth, they're fine. It's almost all praise. Same goes for Melissa, except I think actually 100% is positive for her, and she obviously knows how to keep a healthy distance from the intrusiveness of social media anyway.
Verified accounts also have more filtering tools and more ability to avoid the crap if they so choose. They have resources to tune it all out without Chenford fan #987 doing it for them.
So the final bucket is the smaller fish of random production staff and associated crew, and yeah, there's probably no point sending them your criticism because it's just not their wheelhouse. They give random tidbits on social media sometimes presumably because they enjoy the small buzz it creates around them but that's really it. I wouldn't agree with @ing them for anything other than their specialist areas. But I just don't think anyone is. It's too much of an outlier and not the obvious target for someone who wants a rant.
I should add also that I and others have asked where these so called harassment posts are, but I've never once seen anyone reply saying "here it is". I can only conclude that they're only able to point to the relatively moderate, polite questions and comments that have been directed at some writers and producers recently. In my view, there is nothing wrong with these and I'm just not convinced that anyone would seriously consider those 'harassment'.
Which leads back to the projecting.
It's not okay to accuse other fans of harassment if they're not doing anything of the sort. It's not okay to try and shut down politely and calmly expressed views you don't agree with because they are not your views.
You also cannot ask other users of social media to ensure you see only content you like.
If it is so upsetting to you to see differing opinions, it is your responsibility to remove yourself from that situation. Not make it worse by putting your anger and blame out there on the wrong targets.
So please just think before you post that judgy call to arms about not critiquing the show. Are you trying to shut down actual harassment, or are you looking for a disguise for saying "I don't like it so you can't say it"?
In hindsight I would have much preferred them to have had Lucy off doing a UC stint from episodes 2-9, ignoring her grief over Jackson by throwing herself into becoming another person, even if it meant no Chenford scenes, because then she'd have had her own arc and would have grown as a character and been challenged, made her own choices and mistakes, had her own successes, and would've had to eventually face her grief, and she and Tim could have reunited after the hiatus. Now it's too late.
Yeah, this sounds much better to me, and I'm someone who never had any affection for the UC storyline.
I felt her obsession with going UC the first time was ooc but turns out it was nothing on what was about to happen to Lucy. She at least was shown to be a capable, independent police officer with her own plotlines and who wasn't a complete joke last season.
It's not technically too late - if they wanted to they could still probably salvage this with some deliberate writing.
Imagine a scene where Lucy's done something really stupid, really dangerous, all because she's trying to one up Tim:
Tim: [pulling her aside] What the hell was that? You keep this up and you're not going to make it to one year as a P2, Lucy.
Lucy: [defiant] Right, because you've never made a single mistake before? Do you remember my first month?
[long pause, tense stare]
Tim: What is going on with you lately? You've been acting like this job is a joke.
Lucy: You mean where's perfect, obedient Lucy? Maybe I got tired of being walked all over. Maybe that only gets you screwed.
Tim: [shaking his head like he doesn't recognise her] Okay. You need to start talking. Because this isn't you.
Lucy: [close to breaking point] Yeah, well I'm not surprised, because I don't know who the hell I am anymore.
[another long pause, Tim realises how serious things are, end scene and go to Nolan doing some bs with a chainsaw or whatever]
Then follow up later with another Chenford scene, this time out of uniform in a clearly off-duty, calm setting, Lucy's got tea, she's telling Tim about all the shit she's gone through like Jackson and her parents and feeling alone. We all finally see what everyone has been ignoring while Lucy's been in the background.
And boom! Suddenly unfocused, joking, ooc Lucy makes a little more sense. It's all a defence mechanism while she quietly unravels underneath.
So it looks like Tim replaces Lucy with a dog for a partner in upcoming episodes. At least the dog will talk less I guess... So much for this hyped up partner9at the start of the season.
I shouldn't laugh but yeah. Guess Tim got his wish for a silent partner.
Honestly baffled by the way the gofer thing was a complete non starter. It just could not have been less of a significant plot point after all that fuss about it. Barely any screentime together, no policing plotlines, and they spent half the episodes they were paired up with other people anyway? Just why??
Is it too much to ask to go back to the good old days where Tim and Lucy are being unrealistically shot at together? On some level, that's all I really want here. A little drama, a little angst and hurt/comfort, a lot of sparks flying.
The post mortem interviews. From one, I will say Alexi needs to choose to go all in or not at all. This non commital shit is beyond annoying. The “trying to find the best way to tell Chenford’s story and find the best way to that relationship”. Dude, you’ve been saying that for ages now. Can we all just break in the writers room?
Yes I share the dislike of his interviews. They're always the same routine to be honest. Okay, yeah, he's now mostly dropped the oh we can't ever go there because of the rookie/TO thing but ultimately what he's still always saying is "the fans and my writers want to go there but I'm the one holding off". Figuring it out. Deciding. Considering. Waiting.
That's always what he says. He never says anything that commits him to Chenford or anything more than a cool, aloof acknowledgement that it is a hugely popular ship of which he is aware but will not significantly indulge.
This round of comments was actually hugely focused on the notion that a platonic relationship is superior to a romantic one, and how pleased he is with Chenford being in a platonic space only. He heavily implies that you cannot have true intimacy if there is sex involved. And I think that's just the kind of writer Alexi is.
I've always felt he comes across as that kind of misogynistic, egotistical male writer who thinks he's above the silly girlish world of romance and shipping. His comments seem to me like he feels he's achieving some kind of writerly nirvana by portraying a male and female character who are *shocked face* just good friends. Like that's breaking new ground or something.
It's also like he thinks if Chenford start having sex then that must cheapen the relationship, because suddenly Lucy stops being the pure and platonic ideal of Tim's equal and becomes a sexual being who is not capable of also being his deep and intimate friend.
I miss Seasons 1 & 2 Chenford 😭. I’d take Season 1 pure asshole Tim over what we’re seeing now 😅
Saaaaaaame.
He was introduced as such a complex and interesting character. Literally in episode 1 we got the full range of Eric's acting ability since we had the asshole hardass and his broken vulnerability over Isabel.
I would kill to see him still have that grit and tough exterior, just tempered by a bit more patience given that Lucy has served as his foil, showing him a better and kinder way to police.
It breaks my heart that I don't even... like him anymore? Obviously there's residual fondness and I still love Chenford so I root for him, but if I take the character we've seen since mid season 3 and into season 4, it's not rosy.
Tim's become a Mary Sue, and the balance between him and Lucy has been shifted so that they are actually less equal than they ever were as TO/rookie.
Back in S1-2, it was push pull. Very clearly so. Lucy and Tim both needled, tested, challenged and fought for one another. In equal measure. You got the feeling that even though he was spiky as hell he would have jumped in front of a bus for her. And even though she teased and despaired of him, she'd do the exact same thing.
Now? He is obnoxious and she is oblivious.
The way Tim talks down to others and in particular Lucy is irritating, not appealing. It's no longer about him being spiky so much as it is about him being superior, never putting a foot wrong. And meanwhile, Lucy's being presented as basically some kind of airhead in the background, someone that Tim doesn't engage with on any serious level because she no longer seems to be portrayed as worth his time.
If I ever rewatch any of their early scenes I'm honestly shocked when I see how different they both were.
I just don't know if they really know who they're writing either Tim or Lucy to be anymore.
Well we knew it was all coming lol :’’) I really hope the writers don’t box Lucy into just being jealous, I liked that we saw her compassionate side in this episode and I hope Genny mentions something about her to Tim- guess this explains his sister “interfering” with his dating life. Though watch this bite us in our butts and Genny pushes Tim towards Ashley (okay I’ll stop)💀
I don't think we did see her compassionate side? Where was it?
Lucy teamed up with Genny to pressure Tim into addressing something he patently wasn't ready or willing to address. They also inflicted this on him in a very pressurised setting (he is trapped in a car with them, while on duty).
The Lucy from season 1 would never have ignored Tim's obvious discomfort and kept laughing, joking, pushing for embarrassing stories. She would have known, immediately, that there was something wrong and sought to help Tim manage the situation with the utmost sensitivity and care.
Remember Isabel? Remember how Lucy went into her house instead of him to spare him that experience because she just knew what that trauma would do to him? She'd basically only just met him and yet she was capable of a deep understanding of Tim's emotional state and needs. That is where this ship was born.
Then later, we saw Lucy reassuring Tim about the virus. She tried to be strong for him, even though she was terrified. And then when she told him it wasn't his fault she got abducted, she was so sincere that neither of them were to blame, because she didn't want Tim carrying that around with him. That was Lucy's compassion.
Lucy being complicit in pulling out details about Tim's abuse he didn't want to share, Lucy saying his father gave him Tim Tests, Lucy telling him that he had to help Genny process. These were not compassion. These were not Lucy Chen. This character is some unknown, insensitive, regressed, immature caricature I barely recognise.
I'm sorry, but for me this was bigger and worse than anything to do with Ashley, which is now neither here nor there to me. This was a sign that they have no idea what they are doing, or how to treat serious subjects with the sensitivity they require.
Hi doomy, just thought I'd let you know that we miss you. Since this is an ask box, I guess I will ask you a question too... What are your thoughts on black liquorice?
I miss you too 😭 I feel like I totally detoxed and sat in a Chenford and Rookie-less bubble for the last two months, and in some ways that's been super nice and yeah, I so don't miss the show and it looks like it's dragged on in pretty much the same vein.
But I do miss being excited with you guys, and of course I miss Chenford when it was good. 🥰
Black liquorice. I feel like I don't come across this often. I always like the idea of it but I think the reality disappoints? Also, I feel like I only know it as liquorice, what is the significance of the black?
So how is everyone doing in the ol' Rookie fandom, anyways?
