logan is being demonised for his role, just like the "dark" sides, & i know it's such a big thing to imagine them comforting him. but i truly and genuinely think they're annoyed. they're angry. they're watching this guy get everything they want and fail miserably and keeping it. theyre watching domeone experience the exact shit theyve experienced for 38 fucking years and is acting like hes alone in what hes experiencing. theyre watching him sit there and continue to fight and continue to try becsuse he just wont lose hope no matter how many times thomas ignores him. how fucking dare this guy sit here and act as if hes the only one suffering from this when weve been sidelined our entire lives? how fucking dare he sit here and lose his grasp ob thomas when weve been fighting for it our entire lives? how fucking dsre he continue to have hope for our world? its pathetic.
logan has the hope they lost and theyre trying 2 push him over the edge but he just will not budge because logan is prideful and he is hopeful and he loves their world too much. prick.
o4ouuguuhhhhh logans role as emotioanlr egulation is literslly getting sidelined because hes trying so fucking hard to be good for c!thomas & the rest of the sides that hes ignoring his literal function bcuz he thinks that its right.
& theres something There. but. logan spends So Long fighting as his role as logic. his entire Purpose is to be thomas' logic and for whatever reason, unbeknownst to him, he is messing that u.m no matter what he does he is . no matter what he says. how he expresses his informstion. how he tries to help. they dont want to take in account how he can help. & logan is still trying and fighting & he has no fucking clue what his role is anymore. he doesn't know what to do. he's squeezed himself into such a small little box that hes literally forgottwn his own job the one thing he was created for. and right now he feels so lost . hes lost and hes scared and he just wants to do a good job but no one will let him and no ones telling him why and he doesnt know why he exists right now if everything he does in regards to his role is wrong.
theres something there in: logan has no idea what he is supposed to do right now as logic and keeps shoving himself smaller and smaller into little holes and boxes because hes sure if he just keeps changing himself thomas will accept snd listen to him. when this entire time his role as emotional regulation isnt even Known 2 him because he genuinely thinks its what thomas wants.
hes trying to hard to succeed at his job that hes actively failing at the one thing hes designed to do. and i wonder how that will hurt when he finds out. that even him trying and trying he still fucking failed to be thomas' logic.
truly and genuinely what is his purpose, what does he do, if he cant be what thomas needs OR what he wants?
Let's Talk About "Watering Down Characters" (& Very Specifically Remus Sanders)
I am responding to THIS POST, "Why I think people should be allowed to “water down” Remus", by @radioactive-dazey and creating a discussion around this topic. I feel like the idea of changing a character's personality is heavily talked about and done within every fandom aaannd with this post being talked about, I want to step in and say some things because I have Many Things To Say.
And before anyone says shit: I am a ts criticiser, yes, but I criticise everything about the fandom and show— not just Thomas. IDGAF that we have "better things to talk about", I've been talking about those things for like 4 years now and now I'm criticising the fandom. I can do it all.
Feel free to respond with your own opinions if you're replying to me. Can't say I'll reply to them all, but I like hearing what people have to say.
I am very aware that watering down characters is an inherent part of fandom. No matter what fandom you join or what media you get into, there is always a huge part of that community that waters characters down, changes their entire personality, or writes them differently. I do agree that this is just What Happens when you are in fandom. Not everyone understands source material, not everyone has the same opinions when analysing a show, and not everyone cares about it that much.
Personally, I don't get why you would talk about a piece of media and change everything about it, because then you're not enjoying the media, you're enjoying something completely different. But this is fandom and people have fun in different ways and I agree that you need to learn when to look the other way and let people exist.
However, I run a critical blog and my fun is criticising.
"It can be hard to write intrusive thoughts in a respectful way, so people avoid it."
OP brings up that writers may not know how to write intrusive thoughts and so they avoid it, in order to not "writing wrong". Which is alright to do! You don't have to write about serious topics... BUT... if you are voluntarily choosing to write about a series that includes the topic that you don't know how to write about, maybe... you should take the time to learn how to write it.
If you don't want to write about intrusive thoughts, I don't think you should be forced to, but if you are writing a character that controls intrusive thoughts, it makes zero sense to completely remove that aspect when you simply should not write him.
It's brought up how mischaracterising Remus leads to the misunderstanding of intrusive thoughts themselves and stigma surrounding them. Changing Remus' character is fun and all, until we remember that he represents something very serious and important. It's something that actively impacts people. Which is my issue with "escapism" within fandom (touched on later in this post). When people actively ignore real issues happening within the fandom, or in this case, the real issues the series itself is about, by ignoring Remus' character, watering it down, or completely changing it, you are causing more harm to intrusive thoughts and the disorders that are connected to them.
Let's bring up an example: Jimmy from Mouthwashing.
Mouthwashing is a game about a very heavy topic: sexual assault. You play as Jimmy, the main perpetrator, though all the men in the game have a role to play (bystander affect, toxic masculinity, etc).
The fandom is already watering down these characters and topics. Introducing shipping to a game with characters that shouldn't be shipped; making the characters all sweet, perfect, stupid angels who didn't know any better; implying that if Anya had told someone else then she would've been saved, and it's her fault she told Curly in the first place. I could go on and on.
Obviously, Sanders Sides is about different topics. Obviously, Remus is not the same as Jimmy. This isn't a perfect comparison.
But it'd be completely strange if someone told you they were using Mouthwashing as a way to escape real-life issues. That they're writing Jimmy differently, or completely removing the sexual assault entirely, because it's "hard to write".
This is at best super fucking stupid, and at worse actively harmful (which it is). If you can't write the topic of SA, simply do not write for MW in the first place. The same applies with Sanders Sides, and any other piece of media.
"Writers use writing/fandom to escape real life and may not want to talk about those topics."
This is not an inherently wrong statement, but it does ask a question:
If you are joining a fandom to "escape real-life topics", why are you joining one that talks about those real-life topics?
Sanders Sides is a web-series that discusses morality, intrusive thoughts, anxiety, catholism, and other heavy-hitting topics. With the introduction of the dark sides, with certain plot points and arcs— Sanders Sides is very much about those "real-life topics". If you are trying to avoid writing about intrusive thoughts, writing for a show that talks heavily about intrusive thoughts and has an entire character that controls intrusive thoughts isn't... a bright idea.
I know there's this entire talk about using fandom to escape, which is something I have talked about repeatedly on this blog, mainly when we talk about racism within fandom. When you bring up serious topics, people flee and get upset because this is their "safe place", when in actuality, it's a safe place for them and no one else. They are using the phrase "escapism" and "safe place" as a way to spout racist rhetoric without consequences. We all know how I feel about the idea of "escaping through fandom."
The statement "I don't write Remus in character because I'm escaping real-life" makes me raise an eyebrow, because.... the entire show is about that. You're escaping through something that has exactly what you escaping from— that's like if I said I was avoiding my triggers by watching something that included my trigger.
The better answer is just don't watch.
It's the same sentiment I held throughout the fandom after Remus was introduced. "Can you please tag 'duke dont look' or 'remus tw'? He squicks me out." I respect your triggers and squicks and I acknowledge that sometimes they can stem from strange places and be "irrational", but... if your trigger is an entire character, it makes more sense to simply leave the fandom instead of ask everyone to collectively keep in mind your feelings.
If you don't want to write intrusive thoughts, that's okay and I respect this, but maybe you shouldn't be writing for Sanders Sides in the first place if you "can't handle" what the series is about.
I know Sanders Sides did not start off like that, I understand if it was a way to escape at the beginning stages of season one, but it is more serious now. If it's including topics you cannot handle, then you need to take care of yourself and leave.
This mentality of "this makes me uncomfortable, so I don't have to partake" is such an interesting one. Mainly because people think their uncomfortableness always stems from a good place, a place that isn't allowed to be questioned. You can't get mad when someone is feeling bad, because those are their emotions. "If I am feeling uncomfortable, you should respect me and let me be."
But the issue with this is that sometimes (a lot of the times) the things that make you uncomfortable aren't inherently an issue. Sometimes it is an underlying thing you need to work through. Sometimes it's good to step outside of your comfort zone.
I have agoraphobia, which is the fear of leaving my house and going outside. If I was constantly letting this fear control me, I would never leave my house. This feeling doesn't stem from a good place. I need to be comfortable leaving my house and I need to force myself out.
You don't let uncomfortableness or fear control your morals. Just because something makes you Feel Bad, doesn't mean it is Actually Bad.
Which is why I think this debate is brought up. It's always talked about how one feels about Remus, how one feels about intrusive thoughts.
"What if they don't like writing about it?" "What if they don't feel comfortable writing something they don't know?" "But Remus makes me uncomfortable, I can't accept him."
Your feelings, while okay to have, are not always "valid."
You can feel how you want about Remus, but no one is forcing you to write him. When you write fanfiction, you are voluntarily writing it. You are choosing to create content within the media.
If you don't like the content in Sanders Sides; if you don't know how to accurately write intrusive thoughts; if you won't learn how to accurately write them; if you can't handle the topics that are in the series, itself; then why are you here? Why are you choosing to write it? Why are you in the fandom?
Change him all you want, but a better option is simply don't write him in the first place. You have no reason to mischaracterise him when writing him is a chose you actively chose to do.
Sure, it boils down to personal interpretation and "what you want to write", but if your interpretation is going completely against what is represented in Sanders Sides, then what are you here for? Which wraps all the way around back to my own personal opinion on mischaracterising characters:
If you're changing the characters completely, then do you even like them or their story or source material?
Think I could ask what you think of Logan’s character and where you think his character arc will go (or at least, where you’d like to see it go in the series)? Honestly I’m just interested in hearing you talk about him
I found this rlly far down my drafts. Somehow. Idk how it got there. But at least I don't have to rewrite the entire beginning 🧡
NOTE: I have Aphasia. It's a language disorder that affects my ability to understand and use language and it affects me both within writing and speaking. This is going to be a little incomprehensible and all over the place, but be nicies to me and feel free to ask for clarification.
This is more of a ramble, than a nice and neat analysis.
Everyone is allowed to add on :3c
ALSO SORRY TO ANYONE TAGGED</3 You're most likely tagged because I was quoting/linking a post by you.
OK. LET'S TALK ABT LOGAN (FT MY BAD SCREENSHOTS):
[ID: a screenshot of Logan Sanders from the Sanders Sides episode "My True Identity!" He is smiling at the camera and making finger guns. /end ID]
This might be incomprehensible I love logan sanders. So much. Its so hard to put into words i jsut love him OK. He is perfect in every day & also a little nerd. & Beautiful. & handsome. & my babygirl.
I feel like a lot of fans treat him as if he is... like any other glasses wearing character in fiction. Byakuya Togami is the first to pop into my mind, same with Kusuo Saiki from The Disasterous Life of Saiki K, Freddy Riley from Identity V, Charles Offdensen from Metalocalypse, Kyoya Ootori from Ouran Highschool Hostclub, ETC. THERE'S A LOT OF GLASSES GUYS. (Note: these characters do not completely fit each other, but you get the point.)
The trope of "smart, unemotionless, rude/blunt character wears glasses" is something fans will shove Logan into, but the thing is Logan's character takes this trope and completely snaps it in half and throws it in the trash.
Logan is smart. He is blunt and can be the biggest asshole at times. He is """unemotional""" (stated by him).
[ID: a screenshot of Logan Sanders from the Sanders Sides episode "Dealing With Intrusive Thoughts". The captions reas, "Everything is okay." /end ID]
But he's also compassionate. He is hopeful. He cares so much for the people around him and he holds so much love in his heart.
This post (link) by @intrulogical probably phrases it way better than I ever could + this post (link) by @nesushii
I think that's what makes Logan such a compelling character. He's not someone who needs to "learn how to feel" (which is an idea in fiction I dislike) (it can become a little ableist), he is someone who does feel and know he feels and feels so much all the time, but he can't express it well due to both the environment around him and how he shows his emotions.
A lot of Logan's asshole actions, I think, are less him actively trying to be rude and more him just struggling really bad.
In Moving On, he is "rude" but it's because he realises his actions were Wrong and he's trying to Fix It. He recognises Virgil's panic attack, how this room is affecting Thomas, and realises that he should have listened to Patton. But because of the affects of Patton's room and Logan's tone and phrasing, he comes off as Mean. He becomes defensive as everyone blows him off and it affects how he's trying to help everyone.
In LNTAO, Logan is confused about the entire situation. He doesn't understand why singing or puppets would help Thomas and, as Logic, it is terrifying to not Know when it's his entire job to know. His confusion turns into defensiveness, and because he already struggles to express his emotions in a way that the other sides like/understand, his confusion (& defensiveness) comes off as anger and purposeful ignorance. Which is why the sides and Thomas treat him the way they do— they're assuming he doesn't want to know. Which is entirely untrue!
I know I've talked so much already about how Logan is unintentionally autistic coded (I'm even writing an entire essay about it), but like... HE IS SO AUTISTIC CODED!!
This character that struggles with expressing himself. Who lives in an environment where he feels like he has to exist a certain way, or else he won't be accepted. Who doesn't understand tone or sarcasm or the "big picture". Who struggles with other people viewing him as some sort of unemotionless ""monster"", bexause they don't understand him. Who wants to be heard and understood.
In DWIT, he feels like he's finally doing something right. That he's on the right path. And then it immediately get snatched away in POF and then again in WTIT. And that's such an inherently autistic experience. You feel like you're masking right, you're fitting in, people are accepting and loving you— only to act "too autistic" and the false comfort you wanted is snatched away (a little more complex and nuanced than that, but you know).
He is... So Autistic and it HURTS. (He could also be viewed as neurodivergent in general— I can relate to him outside of autism, with my schizophrenia and speech impediment.)
I also relate to him heavily as a child abuse victim. I've brought it up a few times, but I haven't been able to express entirely what I mean by calling him "child abuse coded" (WHICH IS A PHRASE I KEEP GIGGLING AT).
Logan's entire situation with anger feels so... similar to my own anger issues and trauma. The way he will get so angry and explode only to calm down and realise his actions.
[ID: two screenshots of Logan Sanders from the Sanders Sides episode "Working Through Intrusive Thoughts". In image one, he is pointing at someone out of frame and looking down at the floor with a confused expression. In image two, he has a hand on his tie and looks upset. /end ID]
Hurting those around you because you're hurting is something I feel like most, if not all, abuse victims struggle with. And especially with child abuse victims, I personally always feel on edge. Like I have to defend my actions 24/7 and I need to express myself perfectly or else no one will understand and I will "get in trouble" and "punished".
It reminds me so much of Logan. After he gets angry and explodes (partially due to the Orange Side, based on how the series is being shown), he immediately is confused and shameful and scared.
Logan is scared and ashamed of his own actions and is trying so hard to fix himself and not be that, not be an angry aggressive person. But it's not as simple and apologising and moving on and it's definitely much harder when those around you will not let you / don't understand fully.
ANYWAY Logan's character means so much to me as an autistic, abused guy. //slaps Logan// this guy can hold SO much trauma!
This post (link) by @orbmanson7 I think puts some of my thoughts into better words about Logan's anger and boundaries and everything (which also helps us segway into talking about his arc)
The thing with Logan's arc is that it's a little more complex than just "Logan wants to be listened to". All of the sides want to be listened to, that's the entire point of them. They all want to help Thomas.
It's not only that Logan wants to be listened to and isn't, it's also that Logan is actively listening to critiques and trying to fix and change. He is hearing and seeing that something he is doing is not helpful and is upsetting people. He wants to fix it and change and improve. But no matter what he does, nothing seems to "fix the issue"— Thomas still will not listen to him.
Logan has to unlearn this idea that he needs to constantly be improving himself, that he has to act a certain way, in order for someone to listen and understand him (AGAIN. WHY I RELATE TO HIM AS A ABUSE VICTIM). AND, the sides need to be actively changing how they are treating him. Because him unlearning this won't immediately fix the issue if the sides aren't working too.
The situation can't be fixed with a simple promise of "we will listen to you, Logan", because they've been doing that the entire series.
[ID: a screenshot of Logan Sanders from the Sanders Sides episode "Working Through Intrusive Thoughts". He is holding a notebook near his chest and looks dejected. The captions read, "Another day, Logan, I promise." /end ID]
ALSO, this doesn't fall completely on the other sides. Logan still needs to work on letting himself express things and learning how to cope with his strong, intense emotions like his anger. He's lashing out at the other sides and that's not okay. He can't hurt the people he cares about because he's angry and upset (see the ending of POF before Janus reveals his name).
Which... is one of the reasons I really do not want his anger to be "caused by" the orange side. I want this to be something he is experiencing and going through, because if it's "oooh a dark side is controlling him!!" then it won't be a "Logan issue", it'll be a "dark side issue". Which is not what he OR the viewers need.
Logan needs to overcome and cope with his issues without someone inserting themselves into his arc. The more people are thrown into the mix, the more the attention is drawn away from Logan, and I think his arc is something that desperately needs to be told and focused on.
And NO . I am not a fan of "Logan is the Orange Side" theories. There's a million reasons why that's not true if you actually watch and pay attention to the series (it's a very fun AU, but falls apart in context of the actual series). (Plus I don't want him to stop being indigo.......)
I also don't want Logan's arc to end up with him "turning into a dark side" for a MULTITUDE of reasons:
The "dark sides" aren't like... an actual, genuine thing...? It's not something you can ""become"", it's something you are forced into. It is a term created by Roman to describe sides that Thomas views as inherently bad or evil. The only way for Logan to ""become"" a "dark side" is if someone, in an episode, verbally, called Logan a "dark side".
Obviously, Logan can be treated like a "dark" side. In fact, how he is being treated in the series is very similar to how Virgil was treated in seasonn 1 or how Janus is being treated, ETC. BUT I don't want him to be called a "dark side", because I feel like that brings up an entirely new conflict? Now it's not focused on them ignoring Logan, it's focused on "Logic is evil?" "Thomas views Logic as bad?".
I'm struggling really hard to explain, but I feel like it just layers the conflict and I don't want that. I don't want Logan's arc to include the dark sides in any way. I want it to be focused on him.
(HOWEVER, I don't mind the connection between Logan and the dark sides through their similarities and finding comfort each other because of it. In fact, I love it. But I am not sure how to elaborate on that and how I want their relationships to be, so I skipped over it. If someone asks later, I can try to put it in words. In short, less of the "dark sides" affecting Logan, more Logan affecting the "dark sides"? I don't know if that makes sense.)
Also, I don't trust real-life Thomas to write it well! While he is very good at writing conflict, he sucks at resolving conflict (see: Virgil's reveal as a dark side at the end of DWIT and how it's handled in ATHD). Logan becoming a "dark side" already adds more to his already conflict-filled arc, I don't want to then see it be swept under the rug or handled really badly. Logan deserves a good arc. Don't bite off more than you can chew, or whatever, leave his arc alone. Stop it. Please.
I think that's all I wanted to say?
In short: Logan is full of hope and love and compassion and is so, so autistic coded and has so much trauma. I think his arc is more complex than "not being listened to" and he has to unlearn a lot. I don't want his arc to involve the orange side/him being the orange side, or any of the dark sides, because that brings the attention away from him.
