Do you think Jake killing those 17000 unhosted yeerks was a war crime? Was it necessary? What do you think would have happened if he hadn't given that order?
Was it a war crime? Yes, absolutely — they're noncombatants. Was it necessary? Depends on how you define necessary, and whether you're talking to Eva or to Erek at the time.
What would have happened if they hadn't?
It's hard to say, because that final plan is so convoluted. But my read is that Jake flushes the Pool ship, as much as anything, in a last-ditch effort to save Rachel's life. He knows their timing is super-delicate, that Visser Three firing on the Blade ship is a bad-but-acceptable outcome because it'll wipe out the morph-controllers and Rachel, but that Tom's yeerk firing on the Pool ship is a catastrophic outcome because it'll wipe out five Animorphs and the leadership that humanity needs surrender from if they're going to prevent the andalites from wiping out planet Earth. He has to stop either ship from taking out the other by creating a diversion, and finds a diversion that also becomes a show of power.
What does happen as a result of killing those 17,000 yeerks:
Visser formerly-Three gets the abundantly clear message that he has lost control of his empire, and surrenders as a result
On board the Blade ship, the morph-controllers are distracted long enough for Rachel to get in position and kill Tom
Nonetheless, Rachel dies and the Blade ship gets away with at least a few living morph-controllers still on board
The andalite Dome ship also gets the abundantly clear message that Jake, not Visser Three, is in control of Earth — that's part of why they're willing to negotiate with him
So if the Pool ship isn't flushed, how much of that changes? Hard to say. Maybe Visser Three annihilates the Blade ship, which is sad but a better outcome than we get in canon. Maybe humanity loses Earth to the yeerks, or the andalites, or both. But there are so many moving pieces to that final battle — Jake, James et al., Arbron et al., Marco and Ax, Tom's yeerk, Visser Three, the other morph-controllers, Toby et al., General Doubledday et al., Rachel, Cassie and Tobias, the Dome ship Elfangor, the Andalite Electorate, Visser Three's troops, Eva et al., freakin Alloran out of left field — that it's really hard to say what the final result would be. Humanity does successfully fight off the yeerks and form an alliance with the andalites in the version we get, but at a steep cost.
so, hypothetically speaking what if you were to do away with a species only for not all of the individuals to have died and only later find out?
The Coordinator: You mean the Titans? We are aware we missed one. Why do you think we didn't finish our job there? Though now that that ultra mega fauna has fertilized the ground for as long as it has, I'm interested to see what has sprung from their corpses. Deprived lands given excellent fertilizer produce such stunning landscapes. But we aren't due to pay Titania a visit until we are signaled by something else, and that something else has not returned to us.
The Coordinator: Well, there is a second, agreed upon, time for our return. But it is still...quite a ways away. Speaking of, the sample is still in good condition, correct, Charmer?
The Charmer: Of course. I check on it every 50 orbits like we said we should.
The Cartographer: Can't wait for the..."signal" to be back. This is certainly a normal thing to refer to him as.
The Charmer: I don't want to hear another word from you.
So you see, preserver is an ugly b-tch who is Genocidal, thank you guys for watching and see you guys next time
*Dhar mann video ends* Yall are getting paid 10 bucks cause the acting was so horrible. Pls don't cancel me or I'll fire u/j I'M PAYING U ALL 100000 BUCKS FOR THE AMAZING ACTING
It was my birthday yesterday, and I was wondering if you would be willing to part with a snippet from early in Anabasis? No pressure at all if not. (Thank you either way)
Hey anon, sorry for the delay in replying. And happy belated birthday!
Early Anabasis, huh. Okay. I can definitely do that, though I warn you: this story is so long and I’ve been writing it over such a period of time that I already know I’m going to probably end up making a lot of changes (and possibly significant changes) to the early chapters especially. But what I’m posting here hasn’t seen those edits yet. So, some Early Installment Weirdness is probably to be expected.
Then again, diving back into the early chapters reminded me just how much fun philosophical debates between Obi-Wan and Padmé are to write. Obviously I need to revisit this more in later chapters.
This snippet is from very early on in the story (the earliest bit I’ve ever posted, actually), well before Anakin’s deposition or even the discovery of what his detonator actually was. At this point, even Padméknows very little about him.
Immediately before this, Padméand Sabépaid a visit to Anakin’s cell, along with most of the Jedi Council.
“Senator, I think you do very unwisely in this,” Obi-Wansaid, his voice pitched low to avoid the ears of civilian construction workersand the few Jedi who passed them in the Temple halls. Sabé followed behindthem, a silent shadow. “A Sith Lord is hardly trustworthy, and this one is hismaster’s apprentice.”
“Maybe,” said Padmé. “And I certainly don’t trust him ineverything. But you weren’t there, Obi-Wan.” She stopped walking, halting justbefore the door that opened onto Speeder Bay 6, and turned to face him. “Youweren’t there, but you know what that explosion did to him. There was a bomb inside of him, and it was the Emperorwho detonated it. I can’t forget that.” Her eyes slipped closed momentarily andshe shuddered. “I can’t ever forget that. And neither will he, of that I’mcertain.”
“Padmé,” Obi-Wan said, and she was surprised to hear thefrustration in his voice. At another time she might almost have laughed; ittook quite a bit to shake Obi-Wan Kenobi’s calm. But now was not the time.
“I don’t want to argue about this, Obi-Wan,” she saidfirmly. “I’m not a Jedi, and I don’t fully understand the Jedi concept of theworld, but I do understand grief. And I’m not advocating for amnesty for him,you know that. I only – ”
“But you might,” said Obi-Wan, and there was no disguisingthe emotion in his voice now. “The Council knows the line of investigationyou’ve been pursuing, but I’m afraid you’re only deceiving yourself, Senator. DarthVader may be young, but he’s far from innocent, and a Sith regardless of hisage. Indeed, the Sith Master now, as well you know.”
Padmé drew herself up sharply and leveled a glare at himthat had caused many an opponent to quail, on the Senate floor and in battle.“I don’t need a lecture from you, Jedi Kenobi,” she snapped. “My investigationis conducted at the behest of the Senate. While the Jedi Order is a respectedand valued institution of this Republic, the Jedi Council cannot expect the Senate or all members of the Republic to abide byits codes and precepts. This is a Senate matter and I will thank you not toinvolve yourself unasked!”
Naked surprise shone in Obi-Wan’s eyes, and his face wastroubled now as he stepped away from her. “Forgive me, Senator,” he said. “Itwas not my intent to impose anything on the Senate. I only meant to offeradvice to a friend.”
At this Padmé softened, her glare fading to a sad ghost of asmile. “I know, Obi-Wan,” she sighed. “I know. And I do appreciate your concern.But in this I really think you’re wrong, and I wish that you would respect myneed to understand.”
Obi-Wan nodded. “I don’t understand, that’s true,” he said.“The Sith have fooled the Senate and the Jedi alike once before, and the lossto the galaxy was incalculable. I don’t understand why you would wish to openyourself to that same deception.” Padmé looked ready to protest again, andObi-Wan quickly held up a hand to stall her. “But I do respect you, Padmé. Ihope you know that.”
“Yes,” she admitted. “I do. But how can you not be curious?How can you not want to know? There are no records in Imperial files, no birthcertificate, no medical history, not even record of a speeder sale or a credithistory. Darth Vader is a ghost, and as far as any record is concerned, AnakinSkywalker never existed at all. How can that not raise questions for the Jedi?”
Obi-Wan gave a twist of his shoulders and walked past her,into the speeder bay. Padmé followed, rather annoyed still, and Sabé trailedher, alert and silent, but smirking in a way that did nothing for Padmé’s mood.
“Because he’s a Sith,” Obi-Wan said, slipping into the backseat of the Naboo senatorial speeder with Padmé as Sabé took the controls andbegan to maneuver them out of the bay. “Of course there are no records. TheSith were secret for over a thousand years. If there ever were records, Vadermost likely destroyed them himself, and that ought to tell you a great dealabout him.”
“It doesn’t!” snapped Padmé. “It doesn’t at all. I watchedhim explode from the inside out, Obi-Wan, and all because he refused to killme. Is that something that fits your perfect picture of a Sith Lord?”
Obi-Wan glanced away, but Padmé gave him enough credit toknow he wasn’t really avoiding her. His eyes flicked with minute focus overeach passing speeder and to the windows of each towering skyscraper, ever alertfor danger or anything out of place. Her Jedi protector. She felt a suddenflash of guilt for her temper. He’d seen most of his order and his whole way oflife destroyed, largely at the hands of the man she was so desperate tounderstand. It was a sobering thought, and it cooled her anger. But it didn’tchange her mind.
“I’m sorry,” she said. “I really am. I appreciate all you’redoing for the Republic, and for me. But Anakin isn’t a Jedi, and the Republichas no laws concerning Sith Lords. Therefore he must be regarded as any othercitizen of the Republic under the law, and we need to know as much about hiscase as possible.”
Obi-Wan frowned, but all he said was, “Just be careful,Padmé. He’s dangerous still.”
At that Sabé laughed, twisting to look over her shoulder atthem even as she piloted the speeder to a landing on the roof of 500 Republica.“Of course he’s dangerous, Kenobi. But for once he may not be a danger to you.”
Obi-Wan narrowed his eyes at her, though whether in responseto her comment or to her piloting methods, Padmé wasn’t certain. But they’dlanded safely enough, and she had work to do.
Before her handmaiden could provoke the Jedi further, Padméstepped out of the speeder and turned to Obi-Wan. “I’m grateful as always foryour assistance, Jedi Kenobi,” she said formally. “But now I’m afraid I mustattend to other business.” She smiled. “I’ll see you again soon, for the nextvisit.”
“Until then,” said Obi-Wan, still casting a suspiciousglance at Sabé, then with a bow he turned and hurried away, toward the nearesttaxi terminal.
“Well, that’s that,” said Sabé, ushering Padmé into theelevator that would take them down the seven levels to her senatorialapartments. Her tone was casual, but her stance was ever alert, and thetelltale bulge of a blaster showed at her hip.
Padmé caught her eye and motioned vaguely around the squareof the elevator. Sabé’s gaze flicked rapidly over every surface, and thenagain, more slowly this time, and then her stance relaxed just slightly.
“Clean,” she said.
“Good,” said Padmé, rounding on her handmaiden. “Then youcan tell me what it was that you left for him in the fountain.”
Sabé blinked at her. For a long moment she said nothing, andPadmé had to fight the urge to laugh. For all her cunning, Sabé forgotsometimes that Padmé was no stranger to espionage herself.
“How did you know?” the handmaiden said at last.
“I’m glad you’re not denying it,” Padmé said, giving in tothe urge to laugh, just a little. “But you forget I spent six years as a Rebelspy in the Imperial Senate. I like to think I know a thing or two aboutstealth.”
“Do you think the Jedi noticed?” Sabé asked. Padmé couldn’trecall the last time she’d heard her friend sound genuinely nervous aboutsomething; her faint laughter died away.
“No,” she said slowly. “I don’t think they did. I can’timagine they would have let it go, if they had noticed. But mostly, I thinktheir suspicions of him kept them from paying much attention to either of us.We weren’t the danger in that room, for them.”
Sabé snorted indelicately. “Oh weren’t we? Sometimes, Iwonder if the Boss isn’t right about Jedi.”
“Sabé!” Padmé exclaimed in horror, but Sabé only waved heroff.
“No, no, I don’t mean like that,” she said. “Of course notthat. But they are a bit full of themselves, aren’t they?”
“I really don’t think they are,” Padmé said coldly, and asthe lift came to a stop, she strode rapidly through the doors and into herapartment, not once looking back at her handmaiden. “They’re survivors of agenocide, and I really don’t think making a mockery of that is – ”
“But you want to defend the man who enabled that genocide,”Sabé hissed, her voice so suddenly vicious that Padmé spun back to look at herin shock. “You want to understand. And if you really do, maybe you ought tostart by taking his views seriously.”
For a moment Padmé was still, caught suddenly by herhandmaiden’s words. It was not something she’d really considered before, andthere might be something to Sabé’s anger. But Sabé was in some ways likeAnakin, or more likely she’d learned the trick from him, and Padmé knew him toowell now to fall for his tricks from someone else.
“And perhaps you ought to answer my question,” she said,smiling at the faint surprise in Sabé’s eyes. “Your advice is noted, but so isyour avoidance. What did you leave in the fountain?”
The sudden venom melted from Sabé’s face, replaced by aferal grin. “All right, you caught me,” she said, though she hardly soundedconcerned. “It was a com. One-way, untraceable, encoded, easily destroyed.”
“And who does it contact?”
Sabé eyed her for a moment, the struggle more obvious on herface than she probably would have liked. At last she let out a long breath andsaid, “Another of his agents.”
Padmé blinked. “There were more of you? But I thought – he’sonly ever talked about you.”
“The Boss is good at keeping secrets,” Sabé laughed. “Youought to know that. And of course there were more of us. I’m good you know,Padmé, but I can’t be everywhere.”
But Padmé was hardly listening. She was thinking back overtheir visit, over the half-joking exchange between Anakin and Sabé and the waythey’d behaved more like old friends sharing an in-joke than like a Sith Lordand his agent. And she wanted to laugh at herself, because of course that was the joke.
“Two,” she said. “You said, ‘Two,’ and that’s the contact.”
Sabé raised an eyebrow at her, but her mouth was alreadytwisting in a grudging smile. “Very perceptive,” she said. Her eyes traced overPadmé’s face, searching. At last she said, “Are you going to tell anyone?”
Padmé was silent. She should, of course. She knew nothingabout any of Vader’s other agents, not even how many of them there might be,and she knew far less about Sabé than she wanted to admit to herself. It shouldprobably worry her, that her handmaiden seemed to owe greater loyalty to animprisoned Sith Lord than to her, that she could not be entirely certain of Sabé’smotivations – that even now, she knew Sabé had certainly not told hereverything, and would not.
But she’d known all of this when she hired the other woman.And she knew why it worried her less than it really should have. The detonatorwas still in her pocket, and Padmé thought that she and Sabé were really not sodifferent, after all.
She let out a long breath of air and turned back to Sabé,her shoulders dropping with her sigh. “No,” she said wearily. “I’m not going totell.”
Golly, what is a cleaning? Surely it won't be horrifying or otherwise discomforting ^_^ (<- clueless)
The Coordinator: When mortals are being too troublesome we have a procedure we begin. We leave the planet to focus on information cataloguing, and when is is completed we send out large, star-shaped constructs to sweep the planet and collect as many of the mortals as possible.
The Cartographer: I hate Cleanings, and I always object, but my vote isn't counted because I almost never participate in Collection missions. The Curator hates Cleaning as well, partially because the massive influx requires her to quickly design and construct huge wings of the Archive to store them, and then she has to start organizing them continuously, with no break, until the sweep is concluded.
The Coordinator: Yes, and once the sweep has finished we determine if we have Collected sufficiently from every species. If additional sweeps are deemed necessary we initiate them. If we have Collected sufficiently we commence the final step where we use our magic to begin to heat up the planet until it can no longer support life. This ensures that life will not re-evolve on that planet. We could move the whole planet out of the habitable zone to achieve a similar effect, but that's not allowed because it would unnecessarily disrupt the rest of the solar system. And cooling it is a bandaid at best, since it will re-warm in a few hundred, maybe a thousand years.
The Charmer: Wow, what a detailed description that I don't think you should have said, Coordinator.
The Coordinator: It is in the guidebook. We cannot not Collect from a planet that has life, but if the mortals are hostile to our presence, fighting us at every step, attempting to harm us, even. It is simply easiest to commence a Cleaning instead of attempting to make peace with a species that will likely not change their minds and allow us to freely Collect, let alone assist us in our mission.
The Coordinator: Us being on our own to Collect is not something we are unfamiliar with, since most planets lack intelligent life that we can enlist; but a continual, aggressive interference would slow us down too much. The longer we take on a planet the more likely it is we will be too late to Collect from another. It has happened on a few occasions that we have discovered a planet that encountered some cataclysm before we arrived, which nearly or completely wiped out all life. We study what we can, but the notes are cursory at best, mostly theoretical, and based on previously encountered species. Not to mention it is only on the most prevalent species that we can quickly find examples of, if we can find any examples at all.
The Coordinator: Though it means less work for me to do, it is truly sad when we are too late. Which is why the cataloguing of a species' behaviors, societies, and everything else is so vital before a Cleaning. It's very unfortunate when it has to happen, but as long as it is written in our books, and the specimens stored in our Archive, they shall be preserved for eternity.
Building on this question, is there anything you disagree with Syl about morally?👀
(Ooc: oh yeah, i totally agree with mod, i just like attempting to give kaladin an existential crisis </3 Elhokar should've been allowed the chance to grow 😭 i mean, moash should also have been allowed to slap him really hard like one time but murder may have been a bit much)
I don't think they were outright disagreements so much as things we were/are struggling with, but that the Listeners and Singers are right to protect their own. They have the right to defend themselves against the people who have enslaved them. I don't believe that answering genocide with genocide is the answer, and I think they deserve to be free from Odium, who has no one's best interests at heart but his own, but good options are few and far between for them.
Where we disagree is that I fault Honor for backing the humans against the Singers rather than seeking nonviolent solutions. Syl grew up with family who were directly formed by Honor, so to her, he was family. It's hard to start questioning when you were raised to think a certain way, and even being nonconformist doesn't fully change that.
Numers Dulcot lived in a hive made of metal and mesh, glass and light, nothing but the finest materials one could obtain. His lusus was in the basement, kept far from the light and far from other trolls, safe and deep and easy to ignore. So he sat in a chair of glass, fingers resting on a keyboard as he tracked trolls across the galaxy for his Condensce, the best he could do for her, preparing for the future he would help to lead.
And he planned, quietly, with those who agreed with him. No more lowbloods. No more disgusting, useless, short-lived cretins who dragged troll society down with them. They would be slaughter, die en masse, go the way of the limebloods until only highbloods remained. Servants could be made from inhabitants of invaded planets, aliens that would never pollute the mothergrub.
The plan was simple, simplicity, numbers and no more. Numers loved numbers that way other trolls seemed to care for each other. He knew them, understood them, used them and trusted them. Numbers and Numers went together easily. So he moved numbers, counted numbers, changed numbers, shifting ideas until he had found the next step.
