The Forgotten Ones are a mysterious group of elven gods and are a maligned aspect of the ancient Elven pantheon, the other half being the benevolent Creators led by Mythal and Elgar'nan. During the event the Dalish elves refer to as the Great Betrayal, the Dread Wolf Fen'Harel was said to have tricked both sets of gods: locking the Forgotten Ones away from the world in their realm of the abyss, and shutting the Creators away in their realm of the heavens. According to popular belief, not even the Dalish properly remember the Forgotten Ones since then, outside of their dreams.
Legend suggests the Forgotten Ones were many, but even the names of most of them have been largely lost to time, making their title exceedingly appropriate. Some fragments of lore do remain, however, as do intimations of their intentions.
(source)
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ohhhh i think i missed this note last run!! they are for sure setting up stuff with the forbidden ones more explicitly than i thought. prob wouldn't have clocked it if i hadn't been reading the wiki entry on the forbidden ones specifically this afternoon and thinking about the encounters in dao/2 specifically lol.
hiiiiii imshael (poor formless one, doesnt even get a fancy name) from sometime in the past maybe???
I am really excited about a lot of things for Veilguard, but one of them is curiosity about seeing The Formless One. To our knowledge, that's the only one of The Forbidden Ones we haven't met. Gaxkang in Origins, Xebenkeck in DA2, and Imshael in DAI (and The Masked Empire) have been a fun pattern in the games.
I have never seen this listed in any meta about Imshael, even ones that connect him to the Forbidden Ones: demons said to be the ones that taught humans and elves blood magic--part of both Dalish and human lore. In Origins and DA2, you can fight Xebenkeck and Gaxkang, and there are hints that a group of Seekers/demon hunters known as the Group of Three were trying to track them down.
And here Imshael is, just naming his compatriots aloud. I’ve never gotten this dialogue drop before.
Thesis: The Forbidden Ones and the Forgotten Ones are two distinct groups with different goals and means of pursuing them in ancient Elvhenan. Although their paths may well have crossed with dramatic consequences, careful readings of the source materials suggest that ancient elves, especially the Evanuris, considered them to be different in purpose and nature.
Premise: The Forbidden Ones are spirits/demons who can take on physical, tangible forms, but who’ve never forgot that they are spirits/demons or chose to present themselves as mortal beings. They may try “blend in” with the various cultures in Thedas in order to “feed”, but they always knew that they were beings from the Fade.
Conjecture: The Forgotten Ones were elves who knew that the Evanuris were not gods, but mages whose great power came from the hearts of Titans. This knowledge led the Forgotten Ones to “dwell” in the Abyss searching for power that would make them the equals of the elvhen gods even while denying their divinity. Fearing that the elven people would learn the truth and that their power would be undermined, the Evanuris called the Forgotten Ones “dark gods” to explain their power, but eventually waged a war against them that threatened to destroy Elvhenan.
That’s a lot to parse, but that’s what makes it fun! This will probably end up being two posts since I can be relied on to overthink the shit out of all this!
“Forbidden” Knowledge
The nature of the Forbidden Ones isn’t really much of a question at this point, given that we have met three of them, but it is worth examining who they are in order to compare and contrast that information with what we know about the Forgotten Ones. Plus, I get to talk about Imshael.
Michel looked at the man, and at the circle of stones. “You’re a demon.”
“Spirit,” the man said, smiling broadly. “Please, call me Imshael.”
....”I’ve heard of things like you,” Michel said, trying to remember the old stories. “You’re a desire demon.”
“Choice. Spirit.” Imshael’s smile never wavered. “Do I look like a desire demon? Do you want me to strip down and put on something filmy and sheer?” At Michel’s glare, the demon sighed. “There are all kinds of spirits, boy. Spirits of love, and honor, and valor, and justice...” He waved a hand absently, turning to pace along the edge of the circle. “And yes, also rage, and hunger, and pride. We all carry some connection to this world to bring us through the Veil.” (The Masked Empire, pgs. 225-226)
Delightful, isn’t he? The few scenes he’s in are some of the most...flavorful in The Masked Empire. They are also very informative. They give us insights into to why even powerful beings, like the Evanuris, thought that Imshael, Gaxkang, Xebenkeck, and the Formless One were dangerous. Here’s a list of what we’ve seen all or some of them do:
The Forbidden Ones not only fed on complex mortal emotions/behaviors, but they are capable of arranging situations that test the limits of the people they encounter.
They also have knowledge beyond the reach of the average spirit/demon, which they likely gained in part due to their great age, but also because they have abilities no other spirits seem to have mastered (Except perhaps the Evanuris, if Decima’s theory about the origin of the elves proves true). Some of their “forbidden” knowledge likely includes:
They totally have dirt on the Evanuris. They appear to have been allies at one time and there’s nothing like former “friends” to know what was going on behind the scenes.
Being so long lived, it is possible that they have knowledge of other major players in Thedas history, especially since Gaxkang and Xebenkeck seem to have been summoned across the Veil hundreds of years ago, possibly in Tevinter and Kirkwall respectively. (Am I the only one who thinks that Tarohne’s declarations about the Maker being a hoax and being Andraste deluded might be linked to Xebenkeck? Probably.)
The “secrets” of blood magic
Knowledge of the inner workings of the eluvian network and the ability to manipulate eluvians to some degree
How to “cultivate” red lyrium as well as how to “cure” someone infected with it
Knowledge about the Titans and their abilities since they seem to have abandoned their elven allies to “flee where the Earth could not reach”
Their accumulated knowledge has led to them being sought out by various groups and individuals through the ages in order to learn what the Forbidden Ones know, which allows them to them be summoned across the Veil at various times in Thedas’ past.
Their only loyalty seems to be to themselves (although they seem to have some comradery with each other given that Imshael calls out to Gaxkang and Xebenkeck when his ass is being handed to him in battle).
Although they have a preferred manner of fulling their purpose/feeding, they may be able to transform themselves into various types of demons to fight more effectively
They can take on a physical, tangible form without it “sticking” to their spirit essence (unlike Cole)
Let’s focus on this last detail for just a minute longer. Imshael forms, reforms, and shucks off his body several times over the course of a few days in the Masked Empire, adapting his ‘essence’ to whatever his current situation calls for with no seeming cost to him mentally or physically. Examples:
While he is trapped in the elgan’arla he has shape, but no substance:
The demon left no prints in the grass where he walked. His black coat was finely tailored, and the buckles of his black boots glittered. (The Masked Empire, pg. 225)
Once the elgan’arla is destroyed, he has shape and substance:
And with a tiny roll of thunder, the light faded, and Imshael stood up.
The grass were he had knelt showed footprints. (The Masked Empire, pg. 259)
In pure spirit form, he has no shape or substance:
Celene looked at Mihris in disgust. “Possessed by a demon?”
“Spirit,” Mihris corrected, and then caught herself and chuckled. When she spoke again, her voice had deepened to that of the man who’d stood in the circle. “Ah, pity. You’re a bit more cunning than you look.”.....
Then light flared around Mihris, and she fell to her knees, her staff flickering back to icy white. For a moment, a smoky shape flickered around Mihris, a haze that clung to her body, and then it was shooting across the room through one of the mirrors on the wall. (The Masked Empire, pg. 355)
Imshael flicks from a visible, but not tangible, human like form to a corporeal being back to a nebulous spirit as if it was nothing. And it is likely that all the Forbidden Ones could do the same in the days of Arlathan, given the warning found in the Vir Dirthara. This is no small feat! Even special spirits like Cole, Justice, and Wynne’s spirit of Faith can’t do this with such ease.
These abilities would undoubtedly cause people, even elves living in a pre-Veil Thedas, to be afraid or at least extremely wary. Felessan, an ancient elf with considerable magical abilities who was a close companion of Fen’Harel, recognizes Imshael immediately and Imshael likewise knows Felassan. They even seem friendly to a point, but Felessan tells Empress Celene what he believes will happen to their merry band if they antagonize Imshael too much:
“Go after him. See how that works out for you.” At Celene’s glare, he sighed. “If we harassed him, he would see which of us made the most noise when our skin was ripped off.” (The Masked Empire, pg. 260)
Considering Imshael was going off at that very moment to massacre an entire Dalish clan just because they had summoned and annoyed him, Felessan wasn’t exaggerating. If the other Forbidden Ones had the same abilities, they would have been special snowflakes indeed!
Forbidden Truth?
But for all of this power and knowledge, the Forbidden Ones never do one important thing: They never claim to be gods. The openly declare themselves to be spirits. Take this passage from World of Thedas 2 in which Imshael...plays with his food while explaining why he thinks “demon” is an unfair word:
Lots of fascinating details in this piece, but some stand out parts for the lore in this meta:
In Inquisition, The Masked Empire, and this short story, Imshael is obsessive about people getting his purpose and nature right. Call him a demon and he will always respond that he is a spirit. It is also worth noting that he refers to himself as “one of the Forbidden Ones.” Imshael revels in that title, in fact. If someone were to call him a “Forgotten One” he would almost undoubtedly correct them. And no one who has met Imshael is going to forget him or get that detail wrong.
In fact no one in Thedas’ long history says that the Forbidden Ones are the Forgotten Ones, save one poor bastard about to head off to his untimely death in Kirkwall. And even then, Brother Kerowen wasn’t sure what all of the information he and the other members of the Band of Three had uncovered meant. So he is hardly a reliable source. We need more codices to figure this out; the older (in Thedas time), the better.
“The first of the magus cast themselves deep in the Fade in search of answers and power, always power. They found the forbidden ones – Xebenkeck, Imshael, Gaxkang the Unbound, and The Formless One. Many conversations were had and much of the fabric of the world revealed. And thus the magic of blood was born.” ―Unknown mage
There is some disagreement in Thedas about the source of blood magic. This codex claims it was the Forbidden Ones who first taught it, and this certainly would have made them all the more alluring to pre-Tevinter mages. Others say it was the Old God Dumat and still others say it was elves from Elvhenan who taught humans blood magic.
Point is, mortals know they can learn blood magic from demons like the Forbidden Ones (“Spi...” Shut it, Imshael!), but they may not have been only source of this information, and if there is one thing people like to do it is conflate similar things together to make them easy to understand. The Forbidden Ones get associated with blood magic and may have been mixed up with the Old Gods who may also have been lumped in with the Forgotten Ones and thus connected to the Elven Pantheon. Andrastians would look at the elven gods, Forgotten Ones, Titans, etc. and believe they were all demons. Think Sera when she encounters anything not Andrastian and you have the right idea.
The potential nuances and subtle differences between these different groups would be lost on most Chantry scholars who would assume they were all are demons. It stands to reason that the Band of Three could be thinking along those lines as well. I hope, however, that Vahnel (the Dalish apostate in the group) put up a good argument to the contrary! Dalish lore has a lot of nuance that suggests these groups were not all just demons. I’m starting to agree with Imshael that demons get blamed for everything and that just isn’t always the case in Thedas.
(BTW - I personally suspect that the Forbidden Ones, the Old Gods, and elves from Elvhenan all played a role in teaching humanity blood magic. There undoubtedly was enough shit hitting the fan in the 2000 years between the creation of the Veil and the fall of Arlathan to cause more than a few to turn to want to learn blood magic. The Chant of Light has some very telling passages that make it seem like lots of people at different times turned to blood magic as a source of power. I’ll be writing about those passages in Threnodies in one of the asks that lead to this post. Stay tuned!)
Another interesting detail from Imshael’s story from above is his casual mentions of the Maker. Notice his flippant attitude when he talks to his prisoner about their faith. He is totally toying with his captive, invoking the Maker in a way that, on the surface, sounds like it could be comforting (demon believing in the Maker and all), but it comes across as mocking and faith shaking. Not what his prisoner needs right before deciding what choice to follow. There are not many more world shaking things than for a person of faith to have that belief undermined in a moment of crisis. Xebenkeck may also have been undermining people’s faith in the Maker. Seems like a theme with them, although I can’t be sure without more info about Gaxkang and the Formless One.
Why this may be important, however, is whether or not they pulled this same cynical line with the Evanuris. Imagine being the Evanuris and having, potentially, four extremely powerful demons suggesting to your worshipers that you may not be divine. That could get sticky really quick and might provide another way of looking at the public service announcement they posted in the Vir Dirthara.
Think about it. The Vir Dirthara is basically the public library of Elvhenan and the Evanuris posted this message there prominently enough that it catches the eye of the Inquisitor some 8,000-ish years later! And it is such Evanuris propaganda!
Sure, the Forbidden Ones probably did drop their bodies and hauled ass to the deepest, Fade-iest parts of Fade when the going got tough against the Titans (probably, since they went where “the Earth could not reach” and they were “Forbidden from the Earth that is our right”), but this declaration also has the added bonuses of getting rid of some pesky spirits who had been allies of the Elven gods for who knows how long. Allies who may well have known that the Evanuris were more akin to the elves worshiping them than not.
By making Imshael and company the Forbidden Ones, the Evanuris were banishing potential threats to their rule while making their followers more dependant on their gods for “protection”. Perhaps this suspicion was also part of what twisted the Forbidden Ones from their purpose, “perverting” them as Solas would say, and made them appear more demon-y than they may have been before. Pure speculation, of course, but fun speculation!
The Forbidden Ones’ banishment from the lands of the Evanuris may also have had the ironic side effect of making them damn near immortal...even for beings that are already basically immortal! If our lore mining and speculations in the Death in the Fade meta is valid, then it is possible that the Forbidden Ones will be back some day. If enough humans, elves, qunari, etc. know who the Forbidden Ones are and actively seek them out, then they may reform or be reinvented by other spirits. (Read that meta if you want to know how it may work.)
Who knows how many people in Thedas still know who the Forbidden Ones are. And who knows how many Fell Grimoires still exist to ensure their story endures. The Evanuris may have given the Forgotten Ones such infamy that they will endure as long as future generations of desperate or despotic Thedosians seek them out in the deepest parts of the Fade. (“Nothing like labeling something as “Forbidden” to make it all the more irresistible, eh.”)
One final note before we wrap this thing up. Demons generally don’t do a good job of disguising their nature in the unchanging, physical world. They can’t. Their fixation on whatever feeling draws them across the Veil and the difficulty average spirits would have maintaining their forms in the unchanging world means that they typically have to rely on tricks, illusions, or possessing people to hide that they are spirits. And yet someone as marginally schooled in arcane lore as Michel de Chevin recognized Imshael as a demon (“For the last time: Choice. Spirit!’) within moments of their meeting, likely because of his Chantry upbringing along with stories from his elven mother.
If Michel can’t be fooled, how in the Void are elves, especially ancient elves who lived side by side with spirits, going to mistake the Forgotten Ones for gods on par with the Evanuris if they really are spirits like the Forbidden Ones? (“There, Imshael, are ya happy?!”) It seems unlikely that they would!
The Forgotten Ones are something else.
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And yup! I need to break this post in half, dear followers. Y’all deserve a break. Worried about missing Part 2 since we have anything BUT a regular posting schedule here at the Wyrd Sisters? Please follow us and get our notifications. You won’t be spammed. We promise!
Thanks for reading!
-MM
PS - $5 says that Solas was carefully hiding his “true” nature from Imshael in this scene. If Imshael recognized Felessan after thousands of years, he surely would have known who the Dread Wolf was. I wonder if Solas’ line here is also a subtle dig at Imshael and company abandoning the Evanuris during a crisis. I’ve never allowed Imshael to walk away from this encounter, but if I ever do, it will be because I want to see if Solas does about our Choice Spirit.
PSS -
“They felt no need to rush when life was endless. They worshiped their gods for months at a time. Decisions came after decades of debate, and an introduction could last for years. From time to time, our ancestors would drift into centuries-long slumber, but this was not death, for we know they wandered the Fade in dreams.” (Codex Entry: Arlathan, Part One)
I can just imagine Imshael reading this codex in a monotone with a “blah, blah, blah...boring!” at the end. Banishment was probably the best thing the Evanuris could have done for the Forbidden Ones, and Imshael in particular. The elves who sought him out after the ban would have been motivated to make their choices far more efficiently than was the elvhen norm. Shit. I need to go read some Imshael fanfiction now.
For the anon that asked for some early game Solas POV, can I recommend 'suspended in a sunbeam', by flabbadence on ao3? It's only one chapter, but it's really some of the best Solas POV I've read, I mean, nearly perfect(I guess I could nitpick some things but eh). btw it's locked so u gotta have an account to see.
Forwarding the rec! Flabbadence’s stuff is very good, as I recall!
