#geezwhizz

[joannalannister]

Scenario: It is the beginning of AGOT and Hand Jon has just been murdered. "X" character wants the Soul stone for whatever reason and must throw whom they love most ("Y" character) over the cliff to get it. If "X" character is willing to do it, who would "Y" be if "X" is: a) Ned Stark; b) Tywin Lannister; c) Varys; d) Littlefinger; e) Doran Martell; f) whatever other characters you want to include in this hypo. Thanks!

[nobodysuspectsthebutterfly]

Going from sts's Lady ask, if GRRM had steered the Hound with dead Mycah to Ned before Lady could be killed, what internal thoughts or external pressures COULD have stayed Cersei's demand for Lady (had she'd seen the dead Mycah). I know it is LIKELIER she would have demanded Lady dead anyway (and intensely relevant to plot and character development) - even after seeing dead Mycah - but on the off chance she decided against, what factor(s) would have prevailed to see that happen?

Unknown factors that didn’t and would never happen. Cersei wanted the direwolves dead. The fact that Lady was completely innocent didn’t change her mind. The fact that Lady belonged to her son’s betrothed didn’t change her mind. The fact that her son’s betrothed was the daughter of the Hand of the King didn’t change her mind. I doubt anything would have ever changed her mind.

Cersei + wanting vengeance for her son’s injury + wanting to weaken the Starks + wanting to weaken a potential “younger and more beautiful” queen + not giving a fuck about other people’s feelings + Robert refusing to get involved = dead Lady.

That’s just the way it is. No deaths of innocent humans would have made any difference at all.

[nobodysuspectsthebutterfly]

Does GRRM expound all that much on the Mother-Son relationship between Daeron and Naerys? Seems like the two would have had a tight relationship during Aegon IV's reign.

All we have is just in TWOIAF so far, and this SSM. I’d like to hope we’ll get more whenever Fire & Blood volume 2 is released, though.

But what we do have is that basically, Daeron was one of the only two who knew how to make Naerys laugh (the other was her brother Aemon), one of the only two who could make her happy. And Daeron was one of her major defenders (along with Aemon). For example, Naerys nearly died during Daenerys’s birth (and the stillbirth of her twin brother), and while she was on death’s door, Aegon's mistress Barba Bracken’s father, the Hand, spoke openly about making her Aegon’s new queen. After Naerys recovered, Daeron (then 18 years old) and Aemon caused enough of a fuss about the scandal to make Aegon send Barba and her newborn bastard son Aegor away from court. So Daeron was Naerys’s strength and comfort, for nearly two decades the only thing she had to show her that at least one good thing came out of her marriage to Aegon.

However, Aegon sometimes launched attacks at Naerys as a proxy for attacking Daeron. For example, Ser Morgil’s accusations of adultery came at a time when Daeron and Aegon were arguing over the king’s plans to start an unprovoked war against Dorne. While Aemon won the trial by combat that settled that question, I’m sure that Daeron was anguished that his saintly mother’s honor had been so besmirched because of him. But Aegon wouldn’t let it go, often threatening to name one of his bastards his heir instead of Daeron. And after Aemon died (while defending Aegon from an attack by the Toyne brothers, who were trying to avenge their brother who had been executed for sleeping with Bethany Bracken, Aegon's mistress), and Naerys died a year later (in childbirth; Aegon did little to honor either of their memories), the king continued to allege that Naerys had cheated with Aemon, that Daeron was illegitimate. His suckups in the court eagerly spread these lies, to the point that even the official list of Targaryen kings (as seen in AGOT’s appendix) lists Daeron II as “Queen Naerys’ son, by Aegon or Aemon”; so the slander continues more than a century after her death.

So… yeah, Daeron and his mother Naerys had a close and loving relationship. But like all things in Naerys’s life, it was marred by Aegon’s amoral odiousness.

[nobodysuspectsthebutterfly]

Hi! I have read the theory that Lady Stoneheart's (LS) endgame is tied with Arya. However, I wonder how this impacts Jaime's arc, inasmuch as his has changed throughout ASOIAF. I think the Valonquar=Jaime theory is strong too. But Brienne's arc also has association with Jaime's. Is GRRM really going to build up Jaime until he murders Cersei, and then immediately knock him out of the story? How do you think GRRM going to trace Jaime's path between LS and Cersei, if and when either is to happen?

Jaime and Brienne will get away from Stoneheart and the Brotherhood somehow; possibly through interference by Thoros or the Brotherhood splinter group (Edric Dayne et al), possibly through something deeply weird (Bran doing something, as note the Brotherhood’s cave is full of weirwood roots), possibly through something I haven’t thought of yet. The incident will continue to change Jaime, forcing him to confront events in his past he would prefer to forget, as well as making him deal with Brienne’s betrayal (because she had to, to save her innocent friends). But yes, I believe it’s not part of his personal arc to end Stoneheart, so that’s why I figure they’ll escape, rather than something more… conclusive.

After that, eventually Jaime will reunite with Cersei, I think most likely after she’s fled back to Casterly Rock. Though note I’m saying eventually. I don’t know what Jaime’s path will be between Stoneheart and Cersei because I have not been given enough information that would tell me that yet. (I’ve considered that he and Brienne might be our eyes on the Isle of Faces because someone must deal with that Chekhov’s gun, and they’re the only POVs in the right place, but nothing particular in their stories so far says it must be them specifically. And there’s also the theorized Red Wedding 2.0, though that may be before Jaime and Brienne can get away from Stoneheart.) It’s not my book to write, it’s GRRM’s, and whatever he writes about Jaime before he reunites with Cersei may take all of TWOW if not some ways into ADOS. Or perhaps it won’t. I don’t, can’t know.

Though whatever Jaime’s path may be, his fate and story arc is not tied at the hip with Brienne. She’s got her own story, her own fate, and while it’s certainly associated with Jaime’s story, it is not dependent on it. And vice versa. If Jaime’s story continues after the valonqar – no guarantee there – then he’ll do whatever the continuation of his story may be from the events that have gone before, which could be tied into Brienne’s and/or the War for the Dawn… but if that valonqar climax is within ADOS (y'know, the end), that may indeed be the end for him as well. Nevertheless, it’s still all very wait-and-see, don’t let anyone tell you different.