#grommy

[peakyblinderstho]

GOD I simply KNOW there is theee messiest potential fic EVER about TommyGrace between season 2 and 3. That man Grace married got so devastated when he found out she cheated on him and the fertility issues were his fault and she was pregnant with somebody else's baby that he fucking killed himself. And she said he was very nice. Very kind. Best guy around. Like what the FUCK.

[peakyblinderstho]

Do you ever think Tommy truly loved Grace? Or do you think he married her because she got pregnant and he felt it was the right thing to do? Loved her bc she was the mother of his child and felt he had a duty to her? I get very torn on it bc while he seems like he’s “happy”, I just can’t get over how hurt and upset he was when he realized the depth of her betrayal in s1. And how he reacted when she told him about the baby initially was not one of being in love imo but he was ambushed with the news at the worst possible time lol so I get that angle, too.

I feel like if she hadn’t died their relationship would’ve ended much like his and Lizzie’s did. I think the guilt really wore at him… and then people tend to make their deceased loved ones into a saint after they’re gone, and overlook the negative qualities of them at times

I have no doubt at all that Tommy loved Grace. He says so, first of all, but even if he hadn't, it would still be apparent imo from the way he is about her in 2x05 and other places.

I think when she showed up at the derby he was just very overwhelmed. He hadn't expected her to be at the derby at all, then she was randomly there and telling him she was pregnant and that she loved him. He was actually flirting with the idea of continuing something with May before that, because he didn't think Grace would choose him. He was also in the middle of an assassination plot he'd been forced into, and he knew he might die that day. He'd been preparing for the possibility that he would die that day for weeks (maybe even months). He'd set up a trust for his nieces and nephews specifically because he had no children of his own, and now on a day he might die, Grace was telling him she was pregnant and the baby was his. So I think when he said "Make your husband believe the baby is his", what was flashing through his head at that point was "there is a very big possibility I die today, and the baby needs to be provided for and she needs to be provided for and I won't be here." This is also why he told her he would decide after the race—because he didn't know if he'd be coming back at all. It also wasn't until after that that she told him she loved him, and I also think he needed to hear that to decide.

Whether they would have lasted is something I do think about occasionally. It's very interesting to me that at the derby, Grace is confronted by May who basically throws in Grace's face that she and Tommy have slept together, and heavily implies that she can buy Tommy because she can lend him wealth and influence he needs to grow his business. Grace says "There's business and there's love," and May says "Is there?" And this DOES get to Grace very effectively, because for all the insecurities on Tommy's side, Grace had been hurt as well that Tommy chose his family and his business over her when she asked him to come with her to New York. So May saying "Business will ALWAYS come first" really got to her. It also got to her that Tommy didn't tell her about May (Grace explicitly asked him if he was seeing someone in 2x05 and he didn't tell her, and May used that to twist a knife that basically amounts to: "Tommy will lie to you and sleep with other people and you will always have to worry about that"). The insecurity Grace feels here must fester, because it is most certainly not resolved by season 3.

Right before Grace dies, she and Tommy are fighting because Grace clocks (imo a very one-sided) sexual tension between Tommy and Tatiana. She knows Tatiana and Tommy have some sort of business relationship, and she is 100% thinking of May Carleton and Tommy fucking her, and she immediately thinks Tommy must be cheating on her with Tatiana (even if it's just to get something). It is very possible that Tommy would have still fucked Tatiana had Grace not died, because he didn't really do it because he wanted to to begin with, and in fact, the second time they sleep together, it does pretty quickly turn into what really is a sexual assault. So while Grace's death arguably contributes to Tommy agreeing to sleep with Tatiana (Polly says about it, "You're grieving and when you grieve you make bad decisions") Grace is very clearly not okay with Tommy sleeping with other people under any circumstance, and that could... potentially be a problem, though Tommy's engagement in basically... whoring himself out doesn't become as overt until after Grace dies (May is really just dipping his toes into that sort of thing). We can definitely argue Tommy's use of his body in a sexual context to get things is exacerbated by her death because it is almost a self-harm behavior, and maybe he wouldn't have done some of the things (er... people) he did end up doing if she didn't die and he didn't blame himself for her death.

Besides sex, there's also just the simple fact that Tommy is involved in illegal activities. Grace wants Tommy out of the criminal aspects of his business entirely, but Tommy being able to leave behind the criminal aspects of the business is somewhat dubious, especially because what motivates him to continue the criminal aspects of the business is not just his incredible ambition, but increasingly a feeling that the illegal aspects of the business provide him with safety in a world that is stacked against him... and section D would be cementing those lessons for him in season 3 whether Grace had died or not. Section D also keeps Tommy within the illegal aspects of his business directly within the context of season 2 and 3 by forcing him to do things he finds deplorable like carrying out assassinations for them and committing acts of domestic terror, using threats to his family's safety to keep him in line. Charlie was specifically used to by Hughes to enforce Tommy's compliance, and motherly instincts coupled with the fact that Grace did initially leave at the end of season 1 in search of safety from criminal activity and committing her own acts of violence could very well push her to leave Tommy for Charlie's sake if nothing else.

So yeah. There are different directions to take things. But I do also kind of think Grace was running away from something in herself when she sought out that safe marriage in New York (I think @deadendtracks also has some meta on this somewhere?) and I could also see a canon divergence where Grace is able to make things work with Tommy by accepting parts of herself that she's scared of.

Lizzie and Tommy, coming from the same class background, find common ground on the illegal aspects of the business (as Lizzie says, "You don't get what you deserve, you get what you take") and even some common ground on Tommy sleeping with other people, though there are rules about when and where Tommy is allowed to do that. It isn't simply him sleeping with someone else that breaks their marriage, but the specific circumstances: they are grieving the loss of their daughter and their marriage is under significant strain and the person Tommy slept with is someone Lizzie and Tommy both find absolutely disgusting. It is another reminder that there is no limit to what Tommy won't force himself to do if he feels he has to, and while Tommy tries to contain the fallout to himself, the reality of the situation is that he can't and Lizzie shares part of any harm he puts himself through by then, both directly from the results of his actions hurting her as someone who loves him deeply, and indirectly as his engagement in self-harm worsens his mental illness and she is the person who is trying desperately to take care of him through that mental illness. But we can also argue that Tommy's delusions and the self-loathing and guilt and shame they are couched in starts with Grace and the cursed sapphire as the origin point for him thinking he is cursed, so if she never died, that also alters who Tommy would be later on. Like potentially everything up to and including how mentally ill he would be.

[peakyblinderstho]

Okay really weird question but what do you think about the use of the song 'Catharine' by PJ Harvey during the first season's sex scene with Tommy and Grace? Hearing people call this scene warm is so often strange to me? Zero hate to any ships, accounts or fans, the song always struck me as an odd choice. Thanks!

I hadn't really considered the track (lyrics here for anyone wondering) but it is an intriguing track choice for a sex scene! I did notice (because this pushed me to go back and watch) this is the track that plays in 2x05 not in 1x05. In the 1x05 scene it's some piano instrumental? Or that's what my (admittedly 🏴‍☠️ed) copy has.

Maybe it being the track for 2x05 makes more sense of it?

There are a few strange elements to the 1x05 scene like Campbell watching the window from the shadows when Tommy and Grace are dancing, and just the fact that Tommy is not aware when they have sex that Grace has been spying on him. While Grace isn't sleeping with him for any nefarious reason at that point (she's already completed her mission and resigned) there is that uncomfortable element to it that Tommy has a much more intimate and innocent sense of what they're doing and their connection than Grace has at that point because she started out getting close to him as a mission (and Grace ends up feeling really guilty about this in the aftermath).

The 2x05 scene tho??? WOOF. I mean. It's messy in sooo many ways. Grace is cheating on her husband, Tommy is kinda cheating on May (I say "kinda" because Tommy very clearly doesn't believe that May sees him as serious relationship material—he thinks he's nothing more to her than a gangster aesthetic fling. He is only forced to reevaluate that assumption later in the episode after sleeping with Grace). There's the fact that Campbell knows what they're up to AGAIN, because Tommy CALLED him right beforehand to GLOAT. There's Grace feeling bad after about cheating on her husband and saying what they did was not right. There's Tommy finding out right after she says that that Grace and her husband are in England for fertility treatments. He instantly begins to question if he just got used to supply Grace and her husband with a baby!!! He kinda freaks out for a second!!! Grace also SLAPS him for implying she might run around on her husband (even though that's literally what she just did!). There is even—hilariously—the fact that they fuck in Ada's house without her knowledge (and iirc after Ada thinks she's gotten all the copies of the keys to the place off Tommy) and that Tommy chooses that location in part BECAUSE of Campbell and Grace doesn't know about any of that.

So I think a song that displays a desperate, one-sided love and desire and enviousness fits on both sides, because Grace is upset that Tommy didn't follow her to New York and now it's "too late" because she moved on (except she clearly didn't) and she keeps asking if Tommy has someone, and Tommy is not actually all that sure Grace would choose him over her husband. He says before they sleep together that he's not sure anymore that Grace loves him. One of Tommy's recurring worries is that his only value is in what he can provide to others, which is money or decent sex—that he can't be truly loved.

We could definitely posit some other angles with the song (even bringing Campbell into it or just generally reading more the story of Saint Catherine that it's based on into things) but I get the sense the use of the song here is about Tommy having chosen his family and their business over Grace at the end of season 1, and Grace resenting that, and Tommy not actually being sure at that point that Grace really loves him, that he is palatable enough for her (Grace also shoves in his face that she doesn't need a gun with her current husband), or that she sees him as good for anything but as a dirty little secret... this also compares and contrasts with what Tommy assumes May thinks of him extremely well.

[peakyblinderstho]

maybe i’m stupid, but i’ve watched s2 ep5 a few times trying to figure out exactly wtf tommy’s intentions are during his reunion with grace. is the scene in ada’s flat really as simple as him trying to throw her off, so he can bring out her true colors?

You mean when he intentionally makes her mad at him by implying he just wants to fuck and part ways? It's weird, but my impression is that he's trying to make her feel the way he kind of feels as her... dirty little secret.

Season 2 puts a lot of attention on Tommy being commodified and used. He is used by the government for assassinations (while being repeatedly reminded that he "deserves" it because he is low class, a criminal, and gypsy). He is seen by May Carleton as an aesthetic conquest. She literally "bids" on him as if he is a horse to be won in an auction, and Tommy is extremely cognizant that he represents something to her and it isn't really him she likes it is an idea of him/a roleplaying game to an extent. Tommy is worried Grace wants something similar in 2x05—an idea of him—then he can be let go of again and discarded. He isn't marriage material he's just a quick fuck. By presenting her with the notion that he sees her that way, he gets out of the way the fear that that really is all she wants—that he's just her dirty little secret and there's really nothing more to it.

Tommy thought that Grace loved him in season 1, then she turned out to be a spy and she left and he started to doubt. Grace went to America looking for safety (away from guns and gang violence and police work) and financial stability and married some rich American guy who is basically presented as like... a golden retriever. Safe, stable, sweet, and so in love with her that he literally kills himself when she leaves him. Tommy is the guy she left behind because he is unsafe and unstable (emotionally, financially, physically due to gang activity).

In that scene, Tommy says he thought Grace did love him before, but now he's no longer sure. Grace married someone else who she clearly is getting certain things from that he can't give her (she throws in Tommy's face for example that she doesn't have to carry a gun for safety anymore). So he establishes that Grace doesn't just want to fuck him and then leave again. Only after that does he reveal that he intends to take her out and impress her. He wants to show her what he can give her—maybe he's not safe and stable but he can give her things and experiences her husband can't. He leaves that interaction still not really sure that she'll choose him (maybe she doesn't love him, or maybe love is not enough and she can't deal with the scary parts of him) but asking her to.

Background for some of these thoughts:

One thing I took out of this post for brevity is that I think one of the reasons season 2 Tommy is so fixated on making specifically the women of his family happy by demonstrating to them ways he can provide for them... is that Grace left, and then she married some rich guy. So he internalizes that as "Provide, provide, provide and then the women in your life will be happy and will stay."

Obviously, his relationship with Grace is romantic, while with Ada and Polly it's familial, and with season 2 Lizzie it's... well. something more weird and complicated. but it's all various kinds of love, closeness, support, and stability within relationships with women he cares about and wants around him. Grace did make Tommy feel not just loved and supported but safe in a very literal sense—when he was with her, he stopped hearing the shovels against the wall and thinking a soldier was gonna burst out of there like the Kool-Aid Man. Then she left. Polly claims in 2x01 that Tommy doesn't trust women anymore because of Grace and that's why he doesn't listen to them even though he makes a show of hearing them out, but I think Polly's read is off. It isn't that Tommy's holding Grace's betrayal against all the women in his life... it IS possibly that he's afraid he can't make them happy and they'll leave like she did. He ignores everyones warning about advancing into London because he's deeply ambitious and wants everything (not just for himself but everyone he cares about), but he also knows that makes him a difficult and dangerous person to be around (one of the things that made Grace leave) and he's trying to prove it's worth it to stick by him because the danger is short-run and the spoils to be reaped will provide more safety and stability (via power and wealth) than they could ever have imagined in the long-run. This is the way he shows he cares but also the way he proves he is worth it.

[peakyblinderstho]

What if Tommy married May instead of Grace?

He’d be miserable. The class stuff that goes on with them is 😬. Like. I think May developed some real feelings, but her interest in Tommy is mainly like… he’s an aesthetic conquest. She wanted to fuck the gangster she saw at the auction who she thought was “beautiful”, and right off the bat she framed her pursuit as bidding on him—as Tommy being a thing she can buy… specifically to be… bred. 🌚 The filly for her stud. Tommy knew this! He thought she was hot and her contacts could be useful (and like her he was also trying to get over somebody) so he was like yeah sure why not both of us can get laid. When he initially breaks up with her, she gets upset and he’s really confused about it because he knows he is an aesthetic conquest to her he did NOT think she took them seriously. And she indicates there are some real feelings (which is what keeps him interested), but her main explanation for why she is upset is that her staff and all the rich people she associates with know she’s sleeping with him and “they’re laying bets on when you’ll steal the silver” so if he leaves her, it will be embarrassing (and this part of her perspective visibly icks Tommy out). She is upset because it’ll look like she was used, when she was the one who was supposed to be using him. She also talks bitterly about how at the derby, it’ll be “backwards” with her down below with the horses and him up above. That’s “wrong” because he should always be beneath her. (And this is in a season where Tommy is repeatedly reminded by section D that his class and ethnicity places him beneath). Like. May plays it cool about how she can be normal about Tommy’s class (and there are DEFINITELY ethnic prejudices here too in the steal the silver line and elsewhere) but she is NOT able to be normal about it. There’s also her horse trainer very obviously having a problem with Tommy being gypsy and Tommy clocking that instantly and May is either oblivious or (worse) just thinks he should be “diplomatic” about it because well he IS gypsy and obviously that’s “bad” so he should just deal with it???😬

She later talks about how she will “win” him from Grace by buying him (via her racing contacts which are useful to his business). She is confident she can beat love with money which is also a commentary on what she thinks of Tommy (someone shallow and desperate for her wealth such that he can be bought). She jumps to money again later in season 4 when Lizzie gives her and Tommy a hard time, pulling out a blank check and telling Tommy to put down whatever amount he wants (and I think that also bothers Tommy actually because he knows what that signifies). Like this is what May does. (I might also mention her desire to rubberneck “a gambling den” like she’s doing poverty tourism and possibly showing up to rubberneck the season 4 gang war (which is why I think Tommy’s hot and cold on her presence even before the discussion in the gin distillery). I do think there’s a lot of small things about what May thinks RE: class that give Tommy the ick even though he also is into her (partly because he does have a thing for rich women at first, partly because May being so into him in of itself does something for him—he likes being desired). In a marriage the prejudice and lack of perspective would quickly take a toll. It is a lack of respect rooted in prejudice both class and ethnicity-wise however much May thinks she’s being normal she just can’t because this is just… what she believes and she can’t relate to him. She sees Tommy as her inferior. He’s fascinating and unlike anyone she’s ever met, but he is a thing she thinks she can buy (because why wouldn’t he choose her wealth and influence over love?) and someone who is supposed to sit below her or at the very least be raised through the ranks through her benevolent gifts (even as his ambition, criminality, and self-made success also actively intrigues her).

[peakyblinderstho]

Polly in 1x06: “Let me take care of Grace, Tommy. If you laid eyes on her you might kill her.”

Polly talking to Grace a few minutes later: “Lmao no Tommy wouldn’t kill you he’s too soft. A little baby. That’s why I’M here.”

[peakyblinderstho]

Do you think Tommy and Grace would have lasted if she had lived? And what do you think Tommy and Lizzie's relationship would be like?

I discussed the grommy portion of this recently here.

What Tommy and Lizzie would be like? Idk. I feel like season 3 Lizzie was normal about Tommy marrying somebody else. I'm not even particularly convinced season 3 Lizzie was romantically interested in him anymore at all. Like yeah she had a crush on him in season 2, but then after what happened at the derby, she was really upset with him and I think her romantic feelings for him died pretty much entirely and didn't really reemerge until season 4 (maybe late season 3).

Lizzie clearly forgave Tommy for the derby situation and continued working with him and being family (her inclusion in the wedding photos and seated next to Polly at the reception for Tommy and Grace's wedding is significant—she is firmly a part of the Shelby family). But we see zero animosity directed at Grace or Tommy over the marriage (btw Lizzie being "jealous" of Grace often comes up in fanon and I find this very odd... it just isn't a thing that happens? She's just not?) nor do we see Grace display any anxiety over Lizzie while she does display a lot of anxiety over Tatiana, so either Grace does not know that Tommy and Lizzie used to fuck all of the time or she doesn't care because it was transactional and it's obvious if any feelings ever were there, they're dead (and really, she has no reason to think there ever were any feelings on either side, because Tommy is oblivious to the crush Lizzie had on him, and I do think up to this point in season 3 on Tommy's side, what he feels for Lizzie hasn't been romantic—that begins to emerge later in season 3/4).

The only thing Lizzie is pissed about during the wedding in 3x01 is not being able to bring Angel as a plus one lol (and she confronts Michael and Arthur over it, not Tommy). Maybe some people do read her wanting to bring Angel as like... an attempt to piss Tommy off, or Tommy being weird about her, or both... I do think it's possible Lizzie was trying to piss Tommy off by bringing Angel, but not because she's mad he's getting married. She is mad that the gang has been trying to control "who I step out with in my own time". Why is the gang making these rules about who she and everyone else dates (Michael implies the rules affect all of them)? Because Tommy is paranoid about rival gangs causing trouble for them while he's in the middle of the Russian business. And Lizzie probably comes under more scrutiny because she knows Tommy's whole schedule and sees him every day, so there's a higher "security" risk for her dating the wrong person. And I'm sure she finds it annoying (she even shouts she and the other women in the office think Tommy's going crazy lol).

But anyway... I do think a lot of the TommyLizzie romance emerging is a result of circumstances that bring them together and I think Tommy's romantic feelings for her develop out of those circumstances. Season 3 Tommy is grieving, he's dealing with a lot of stressful stuff, he is whoring himself out for business reasons getting into very dubcon sexual situations with Tatiana, he's increasingly feeling distrustful of his blood family members and feels unsupported by them at many points, and Lizzie is someone he feels comforted by, someone he feels he can trust more than most of his own blood family (he says this explicitly), and to a degree he feels understood by her (not in every respect, but in a few respects that other people don't "get" such as the whoring imo—Lizzie gets that—she can't not get that). Like clearly it meant a lot to him that she was there for him during one of the worst times in his life, given his emotional outburst in 3x06 about how much she (and "no one else" as he points at everyone else in the room lmao) helped him. And imo, that outburst is already a love confession of sorts from Tommy's side, but those feelings are complicated and mixed up with other feelings and distressing because 1) he's a recent widower he is still grieving his wife and also a LOT of other fucked up shit 2) he assumes he has been a burden to her. Him trying to pay her is because he assumes he has been a burden to her.

And season 3 Lizzie well. She's casually fucking the dude she used to have a crush on, and honestly even fucking him in season 3 idk that she's like... all that into him, but I don't think she sees him as a burden either. I think Lizzie was like "Sure I'll fuck him why wouldn't I?" Did she indicate she got bored of fucking over a desk? Yes she did. But she kept fucking that man and I promise you she didn't feel like she had to. This is a woman who prior to this had threatened to break a glass in Tommy's eyes. And she likes him. Like. As a person. Even when she wasn't crushing on him. Otherwise, she wouldn't have stuck around. Obviously by the opening of season 4 Lizzie has full blown romantic feelings again but she's playing it cool like she doesn't so they are both out there thinking "She/he doesn't love me but we are friends and sometimes we do fuck let's not make it weirder than it already is though." And then Tommy does make it weirder via romantic canal sex and then Lizzie is like well what the hell was THAT because he immediately brings May into town lmao.

Anyway what I'm saying is... I think one of the reasons Tommy develops the feelings for Lizzie that he does and that Lizzie re-develops romantic feelings for Tommy is due to circumstances that bring them back together so like I assume they would have stayed family but not necessarily have developed/re-developed romantic feelings in some other circumstance. But I shall rotate the possibilities in my mind.

[mysololaki]

#новости | Grommy Mondraker - электрический велосипед для малышей (5 фото + видео)

#новости | Grommy Mondraker – электрический велосипед для малышей (5 фото + видео)

Известная, несмотря на молодость бренда, компания Mondraker из Испании, начиная с 2001 года, разрабатывает и производит широкий ассортимент велосипедов различного предназначения. Теперь разработчики Mondraker презентуют две…

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