#guidao

[myblurryreality]

I see this a lot in fics, especially ones that use demon cultivation versus ghost cultivation, but Wei Wuxian's cultivation isn't easy. I keep seeing people write it like it is some easy thing that people were doing in droves, but other than certain talismans, we aren't given any indication that anybody else learned how to use Guidao. It takes a certain level of mental fortitude, empathy, respect, humbleness and discipline to achieve to do even a tenth of what Wei Wuxian does.

[esoteric-oracle]

Y'all, friendly reminder that Wei Wuxian was not actually a demonic cultivator. I honestly found it shocking how prevalent the misconception that he uses demonic cultivation is, and how casually people throw the term around. His title as “Mo Dao Zu Shi” is intentionally misleading, as Wei Wuxian himself states many times in the novel that he does guidao  - the Ghost path.

This fact is probably more obvious to those who've read more xianxia novels (especially for Chinese readers, whom MDZS was geared towards), where demonic cultivation is a pretty common trope. Classically, “demonic cultivation” involves actual demonic actions, (ie. eating another cultivator’s golden core) - and MXTX deliberately used a subversion of that trope. Demonic cultivation in MDZS would require demons - something heavily lampshaded when Lan Qiren asks Wei Wuxian the difference between yao, mo, gui, and guai in the Cloud Recesses Study Arc. MXTX literally spoonfed the difference between demonic and ghost cultivation to readers in this scene, but I still see people perpetuating the belief that he was an actual demonic cultivator.

Demons come from living humans, so in the context of MDZS, the only true demonic cultivator we saw was Xue Yang, who use living corpses. Wei Wuxian only ever used the dead and resentful ghosts to do his bidding. The title of MDZS is a deliberate misnomer meant to act as commentary on how easily wrongful rumours and slanders spread, especially given how many criticisms tossed Wei Wuxian's way weren't even accurate - and somehow, 95% of readers fell for the same trap.

It's even worse how the official 7Seas translation perpetuates this misconception, by using "demonic" and modao to refer to Wei Wuxian's cultivation when he explicitly refers to his cultivation as guidao in the ExR translations and original text.

[anon-de-plume]

It’s a Japanese tale, but I think it captures how Wei Wuxian’s guidao works very well. In a short story, titled Diplomacy, in a collection of a bunch of other stories called the Kwaidan, there was a man who was about to be executed. He thought that his execution was unfair and swore his resentful spirit would take vengeance after death. The samurai, who was to be his executioner, considered this and asked how they were to know if his spirit was really resentful, and if he was truly that resentful, his spirit would prove it by having his severed head go and bite that stone over there. The man swore that he’ll do it, that he’ll bite the stone after death. The samurai swung his sword, and the man’s head came flying off. Sure enough, the head rolled over to bite the stone, then fell over, inert. The retainers of the samurai were frightened, for this surely proved the man came back as a vengeful ghost. The head and body were buried away, and though nothing happened for a while, the retainers were still scared. One servant went to their master to beg for a specialist to cleanse the area to appease the spirit. The samurai said it was unnecessary. Though the man sought revenge at first, his final thoughts were redirected to fixate on biting the stone after death. He succeeded in that and bit the rock, and thus, passed on.

(The executed man admitted he was rather stupid before he was killed.)

This is probably pretty similar to what WWX does. It’s just that the spirits are convinced posthumously.

[scrivenger-grimgar]

MDZS headcanon time! WWX’s guidao songs all have names, just like lan music!

[Settling] listening to the spirits and consoling them, offering kindness and compassion to let them calm (its the guidao equivalent to [Calming], ie “putting a toddler in time out until they behave properly”).

[Catharsis] asking or directing spirits to fight for the player, to vent their frustration in a controlled setting.

[Agitation] stirring up residual or ambient yin qi for use, creating an oppressive atmosphere.

[Askance] thinking specific questions allow for spirits to come forward and give relevant information.

[Guiding] mentally marking an individual or set of individuals to be attacked/targeted.

[Locative] asking spirit to look for a person, place, or thing.

[Agony] directing spirits to mentally torment targets.

[Distillation] to cast off smaller grievances and isolate large grievances.

[Mischief] to play subtle tricks on targets, destroying objects, disturbing order, and hexing things.

[Awakening] mass corpse controlling song.

[Calling] to guide a spirit to possess a physical object, like ceramic dolls, corpses, paper men, or puppets.

[Invitation] to invite a spiritual cognition to inhabit a compatible corpse.

[Respite] telling spirits to not harm.

[asksythe]

I read your tweet on how Wei Ying’s Guidao is orthodox cultivation based on real Guidao and that it’s descended from Bashu witchcraft. I’m very interested in that. Can you elaborate on it? What parts of WWX’s Guidao are based on real-life folklore? I’ve also seen people talk about how his cultivation is bad because it locks souls in their dead bodies. That doesn’t sound too credible to me, but I don’t know enough to be sure. 

Hmm… I’m not sure what you want me to elaborate on exactly. It’s a lot of materials to cover. Dry materials at that.

In any case, Guidao 鬼道 (Path of the Dead, Ghost Path) is a real-life orthodox cultivation. WWX’s Ghost Path, aside from sharing the name, has two main aspects that draw directly from real-life basis: 1/ the summoning, nurturing, and utilizing of ghosts or wraiths (in the novel, those would be the ghost lady and the ghost child that killed Wang Lingjiao and Wen Zhuliu. In the Donghua, they are represented as ghost brides), and 2/ commanding fierce corpses.

These two aspects are drawn from two different sources.

I. Maoshan Sect’s Guidao:

As I mentioned in the tweet, the ghost path belongs to one of the three main fulu orthodox schools of Daoism: the Maoshan Sect (the other two being Quanzhen and Zhengyi)

The earliest mentions of Ghost Path are in Han and Jin history records as well as the Three Kingdoms: Zhang Lu biography texts. These texts talk of a Daoist named Zhang Lingzhi, whose Daoism is called Guidao 鬼道. Zhang Lingzhi taught the people the way of ghosts and dao and raised an army. His soldiers and generals were called ghost soldiers and ghost generals. Zhang Lingzhi’s Daoism was itself descended from Bashu ethnic group witchcraft. Zhang Lingzhi founded the 天师道 Tianshidao School.

(Citation: Sichuan Academy of Social Sciences - “巴蜀的“鬼道”如何变成了道教?” - How did Bashu’s ghost path become Taoism? http://www.sass.cn/912/default.aspx If you want to dig deeper, you can contact the academy directly for their research paper.)

Tianshidao School underwent several name changes over the year. To this day, they are known under the name (or descended, as some would say) Maoshan Sect in Jiangsu Province.

Maoshan sect has four major specialties: talisman, array, sorcery, and the nurturing of ghost familiars. After the cultural revolution, Maoshan sect lost a lot of its scriptures and relics. But it has been around for literally thousands of years. So there are still things there. It’s not the titan it used to be, but it’s still very much a cultural icon. There are numerous movies, books, and games that draw from Maoshan history and legends. One of them happens to be a movie cited as MXTX’s inspiration for aspects of MDZS in the recent Subaru magazine.

(Mr. Vampire, the movie cited in Subaru magazine features the adventure of a Maoshan Daoist)

II. Tujia 土家族 ethnic group’s stiff corpse driving sorcery - Hunan:

The other aspect of WWX’s ghost path: the commanding of dead corpses by a warlock. In the same Subaru interview, MXTX also talked of folk legends of Jiangshi (stiff corpse, or commonly translated as Chinese hopping vampire) serving as the basis for her fierce corpse, ranging from things like general abilities, toxicity, and tricks like using rice gruel to cure their poison.

Jiangshi has been around since the Ming dynasty, but tales of warlock with the ability to command them originate from the Tujia ethnic group in Hunan.

A jiangshi warlock process the corpses, plaster them with paper talismans to restrain their ferocity, tie them in a row, and leads them using a bell that the warlock continuously rings.

(Hoppy hoppy! It's edgiest conga train!)

Well, I don’t think I need to point out the similarity between the real-life Tujia warlock and WWX’s corpse commanding ability.

This specific sorcery was created in a time of war, when young men died in far-off lands. Their families, wanting to bury them in their home soil, would pay a warlock to go fetch their corpses and walk these corpses all the way back to their home province.

These legends might seem very fantastic but the corpse walking part is a very real job that still existed until the last 50 years. It’s featured in Liao Yiwu’s real-life journalism record “The Corpse Walker”

(It's a really thrilling read. I got the physical copy over 13 years ago while I was in my last year at university. I recommend it.)

III. How does Tujia warlock (and WWX) supposedly command corpses?

Regarding the whole, did WWX lock people’s souls inside their dead bodies. Uh…. I don’t think so.

Why?

Because Chinese beliefs about souls are different from Western beliefs. In Chinese lore, a person has three souls and seven spirits (三魂七魄). The three souls represent the positive aspects of a person, with one soul literally being a divine spark. The seven spirits represent earthly taints and degradations and are bound to the body. When a person dies, the three souls will go to the heavens, the next life, and the underworld, respectively. The seven spirits, on the other hand, dissipate after death after 49 days.

This belief is shared in other Sinosphere nations as well and is featured in other media franchises. If you read Inuyasha, you will remember the Jewel of Four Souls and the Four Souls concept being a close relative to three souls seven spirits. In Vietnam, there is folklore of Ba Hồn Bảy Vía and rituals on how to call a person's soul home.

It’s these seven spirits that create Jiangshi. If the spirits do not completely dissipate, the corpse turns into a Jiangshi, a literal life vampire that has only the worst aspect of the dead person and who is forever hungering for life energy. It is these seven spirits that a Tujia warlock (and WWX) controls.

When you have this context, you can put the creation of Wen Ning in a different perspective, and why is it that it's such a big deal he retains his consciousness as a corpse.

(Citation: https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E5%83%B5%E5%B0%B8/80733

三魂_百度百科

三魂，一种关于人的灵魂说法。

[bookworm-faolanne]

Demonic vs Ghostly in MXTX

from what i've read in the majority of fanfics (especially MDZS) I have headcanoned this about the two paths in comparison to each other-

Modao (the demonic path), when practiced by humans, is a parasitic practice that preys on the living. (especially likely in MDZS, SVSSS, & PIDW (TGCF not relevant at this time for this as much as I love it))

Guidao (the ghostly path) is a more cathartic-revenge-for-the-dead/persuasive route that is almost symbiotic with the already (restless) dead. yes, it uses resentment/resentful energy, WWX does not seem like a person who'd wake up the dead who have no resentment and are at peace.

[twilightarc-gm]

Guidao in MDZS, Quotes

🖤 Okay so you know the discourse is hopping, now I wanted to slide in with the full excerpt from the official EN novels of MDZS. Alot has been said about the cultural nuance with how certain Xianxia cultivators treat the dead.

But I specifically wanted to address how guidao isn't about "peacefully" anything.

🖤 Here is the passage that was cited by another Commenter With Opinions. Some of the fluff pulled out (noted with [...]) and most relevant passages in bold for consideration: vol 1 chap 4

[...] There is an executioner who executed hundreds while alive. His parents and wife are alive and well. He was murdered in town, his corpse lying in open air for seven days, brewing resentment. He now haunts and perpetrates violence. What is to be done?” 

[...]  Murdered in town, a corpse in the open air for seven days—it was the very definition of a major malicious ghost, a great fierce corpse, super difficult to handle. 

[...]  “First, deliverance; second, suppression; third, obliteration.  “Confer with his family and endeavor to learn how to fulfill his dying wish; one must absolve him of his obsession in order to ensure he is released. If the attempt proves futile, then one must suppress him with decision and with force. If his crimes are excessively heinous and his resentment still does not disperse, his existence cannot be tolerated; in this case he must be eradicated. In discharging duty, cultivators must heed this ordering without error.”  [...]  Wei Wuxian said, “Although ‘deliverance’ is the first step, deliverance is often impossible. ‘Fulfill his wish, absolve his attachment’ is easier said than done. If his wish is for a new set of clothes, then sure. But if it’s to kill an entire family for revenge, then what is to be done?”  Lan Wangji repeated, “Deliverance is supplemented by suppression as required. Obliterate when necessary.”  Wei Wuxian smiled at the response. “What a waste of resources.” After a pause, he continued, “It wasn’t that I didn’t know the answer, I was just thinking of a fourth option.”  “I have never heard of any fourth option,” Lan Qiren said.  “This executioner died a horrible death, so him transforming into a fierce corpse is inevitable,” Wei Wuxian said. “Since he executed hundreds whilst alive, why not dig up the graves of those hundreds? Awaken their resentment, fuse their skulls, and have them fight the fierce corpse…”  Lan Wangji finally turned his head to look at him. His expression remained impassive, yet his brows were slightly knit. Lan Qiren was shaking so hard even his goatee was trembling.  He shouted, “Such ignorance!”  Everyone within the Orchid Room was stunned, and Lan Qiren shot to his feet.  “The purpose of exorcism is deliverance! Not only do you pay no thought to the deliverance methods, you want to awaken resentful energy? You are reversing the proper order of things, disregarding ethics!”  Wei Wuxian argued, “Some creatures are impossible to deliver anyway, so why not make use of them? When Yu the Great was taming the waters, he already knew blockage was an unwise plan and that redirection was the way. Suppression is a form of blockage, so isn’t that an unwise method?”  Lan Qiren hurled a book at him and he ducked, continuing his nonsense without batting an eye.  “Spiritual qi is energy. Resentment is also energy. Spiritual qi is stored within the dantian and can be used for great feats, so why can’t resentful qi be used the same way?”  Lan Qiren hurled another book his way and exclaimed sharply, “Then let me ask you! How will you guarantee all this resentful qi will remain under your control and not harm others?!”  Wei Wuxian ducked as he answered, “Haven’t thought that far yet!”  Lan Qiren was outraged. “If you had, then the cultivation world would have no place for you. Get out!” 

🖤 So here I think we should pay attention to how Wei Wuxian wants to "awaken" resentment, not just use what's already there.

Further as we saw with the cultural nuance posts, he wants to fuse skulls together, which... hmm not great.

Then, we see him say that such creatures are impossible to deliver anyway, why not make use of them? But the scenario Lan Qiren gave is to get rid of one (1) ferocious corpse and instead we see Wei Wuxian considering making more of them. And further, he's not really making use of the creatures that already exist, see? Otherwise he wouldn't need to awaken anything.

As we see post-rez, he comments that the eviler the better so as the Yiling Laozu he figured out how to control ferocious corpses like the executioner in this scenario.

But also there is no assumption that this is helping anyone but Wei Wuxian. "So why not make use of them?"

And I think specifically when Lan Qiren is calling out the disregard for ethics, this is mostly about the digging up properly buried corpses and awakening them. Like... as all the cultural nuance posts are trying to say, Wei Wuxian proposes and does the opposite of helping corpses/ghosts move on.

🖤And I think the most ringing argument you can really make about whether Wei Wuxian's guidao has any righteousness at all is when Jiang Yanli speaks up for him. vol 3 chap 15

[...] A-Xian used a different method from the rest of you, but it’s still a skill he cultivated on his own. You can’t write it off as ‘demonic’ just because he claimed a third of the prey that others were never going to capture to begin with.”

🖤 Which we see at Baifeng Shan he's using his ways to help Yunmeng Jiang secure prey. He played his flute and took a nap, while the corpses all ended up at Yunmeng Jiang's camp where they all use a more traditional way of dealing with corpses, i.e. obliteration. He doesn't even go to supervise.

🖤 Wei Wuxian has good in him, but I think it's better to actually look at his good deeds, no matter how selfish they are, than try to attribute inherent goodness to a path notably flaunts ethics and norms to incite yin qi (e.g. yuan qi, resentment) which is harmful to the living and resting dead. Wei Wuxian's character is a subverted villain trope, but what makes him the villain trope is the use of evil ways, i.e. the use of yin qi to seek power to use for one's own ends.

Feel free to reblog with his actual good deeds and intentions 😚

[admirableadmiranda]

Hello again. I wanted to ask a question. I don't think I asked you this before but I may have. Do you believe Wei Wuxian's cultivation pathed harmed him or was inherently harmful? I think Wei Wuxian had gone through trauma after trauma and was never given time after the war to heal. Then, with the whole Wen situation, he was pushed into a corner. I believe the resentful energy exacerbated his already shitty mental health but I don't think it caused it. Do you believe Wei Wuxian cultivation is harmful? Do you think it was the reason he lost control? Or do you think it was just trauma and unfortunate circumstances coming to a head?

Thank you for your time and efforts. I hope you are well and healthy.

Hello! I have already answered this question for others and written some other meta on this and adjacent topics before, but it's been a while, so I'll go ahead an answer this again.

Wei Wuxian's cultivation is only as harmful as any cultivation is. Qi deviation is a risk for any cultivator and while the Nie cultivation is much more risky, there is no form of cultivation that is entirely without risk. It does seem to require a certain amount of emotional stability, which makes sense when you're working with the negative energy out there in the world, but again, that's not entirely unique to his guidao.

I am a firm proponent in the everyone who went through the Sunshot Campaign has some level of PTSD theory, Wei Wuxian included and I very much agree that it definitely exacerbates what comes.

But really it's also the nature of making your own enemy, if you push and push and push and push and cut aside every option and force someone to be your villain, eventually they will snap, no matter how kind and good they are. It may not be permanent, it may be the sort of thing that they can recover from with good time and care and not being horribly persecuted by everyone around them, but very much there is a limit to how much anyone can take. Wei Wuxian reminds us twice in the story that even he cannot be a stone and he can be hurt by things. This is very important and relevant to what happens because really from 17-22, Wei Wuxian's life was a dumpster fire with a few bright times scattered here and there and the circumstances that led to him losing control at Qiongqiu Path were the culmination of literal years of the Jin Clan antagonizing him until eventually something broke, combined with incredibly powerful cultivation and a little PTSD. It's as simple as that.

It's very relevant that in the present day that Wei Wuxian never has a single moment where it's even hinted that his control over his cultivation is slipping no matter how much or in what circumstances he uses it. He goes through some pretty intense stuff through the course of the present day, including all the stuff in the Guayin Temple Hostage Party, but when it comes to his cultivation, he's fine and completely safe. The only things that challenge him are the things controlled by the Yinhufu and Nie Mingjue being on a murdered corpse murder spree and even then, neither of them negatively effect him, just make him have to adapt to what's going on differently. If his cultivation truly were that dangerous, then we would have seen something in the present day, or had some mention of it. But instead he and Lan Wangji carry on merrily with not a hint of concern no matter what's happening when there's guidao going around.

It's the twist of the novel really, Wei Wuxian was always right about his cultivation and the things that people either blamed on his character or his cultivation run much more differently than the popular narrative is willing to admit. CQL in particular really muddies the waters by both giving him health troubles in his first life and doing weird things with his guidao, but in the book itself, his cultivation is only as dangerous as any cultivation.

As a last note, resentful energy is dangerous, yes, but it's almost more of a metaphor at times for resentment of any kind being dangerous. Think about how many people were hurt and killed based on the resentment of men who wanted things they felt they deserved in some way. Think about how the three big antagonists (Xue Yang, Jiang Cheng, Jin Guangyao) all are characterized by the resentment that they bear proudly and take out on everyone around them.

Then think about what Wei Wuxian took from his mother, the words that he passes on to Lan Wangji at the end of the novel. "“My mom said you have to remember the things others do for you, not the things you do for others. Only when people don’t hold so much in their hearts would they finally feel free.”"

Resentful energy is dangerous. Resentment is dangerous. Wei Wuxian knows this, so he doesn't hold on to either, and thus he and the spirits trapped in resentment who listen to him, all fly free in the end.