#historical changes

[gameguy20100]

If you could ask one question of one person in any point of history so far (fictional or not); who and what would you ask?

I would ask a teenage Bill Gates if I could assist with his work.

Then use my share of the stocks and profits to make serious changes to the world.

[tudorhqs]

given wolsey's fall & the fact that there is no break from rome, what if, any role, would thomas cromwell have, given that his rise in henry's favour is directly linked to securing the divorce?

As usual, under the cut:

Cromwell’s role would certainly be smaller than it was at this time historically. You’re right – without the break from Rome, his power did not increase as rapidly as it did in real life, and without his support from the Boleyn/Reformation faction, he didn’t gain favour so quickly. However, I dispute that the only factor in his rise to power was his ability to secure the divorce.

Cromwell was an exceptionally intelligent man – brilliant with people, who could read Henry’s moods and had learned from Wolsey to anticipate his needs and wants. He was Wolsey’s secretary in 1529, was a member of Grey’s Inn, and was an MP for Taunton after Wolsey’s fall, managing to maintain his position and gain favour with the King – none of this had anything to do with the divorce.

I would consider it likely that he is still, in 1536, one of Henry’s leading councillors, having taken up that role after Wolsey fell; as a comforting link to his old master, he would have assuaged Henry’s guilt. He was Henry’s ‘fixer,’ carrying out the sorts of work that Suffolk or Norfolk would turn their noses up at. He is still the Master of the Jewel House, Principal Secretary to the King, but was not made Chancellor of the Exchequer. He is also not Lord Privy Seal, but he has his eye on that role under the new King.

He is also the unofficial head of the reforming movement in England, putting him in direct opposition to the still-influential Thomas More. England did not break from Rome, but that has only increased many’s desire for reform, as without that outlet (that valve, I suppose, to take the pressure off), people are looking for even greater change. Cromwell is part of this movement not just because of his own beliefs (which certainly lean towards Lutheran), but because he sees it as a movement towards the future, and his eyes are, let’s be honest, always on the prize.

With Henry IX coming to the throne (he still hasn’t been crowned, but is acknowledged King), he is hoping to become the new King’s chief minister and nudge him towards reforming the church. This is difficult without an immediate reason to break from the Pope, but hopefully whoever takes Cromwell (who I would love to see) will plot with me & Nina, our new Henry player, and we can figure out a trajectory!

And, as always, if there are any real (as opposed to amateur, like me) Tudor historians out there with anything to add/who disagree with me, please message the main, I’d love to hear your thoughts on what Cromwell would achieve without Anne Boleyn’s favour!

[tudorhqs]

So what is the status of Wolsey? Did he have no 'fall', considering he didn't fail Henry VIII in getting an annulment for Catherine, since in this timeline they stayed together?

oh, anon, how I love you for asking this question. I have thoughts on Wolsey (under a cut):

You are correct, in that Wolsey’s fall, in this universe, was not because of the annulment, as Henry never sought one. His marriage to Catherine definitely faded in passion in a similar way, but there was no legal need for him to get out of it, and so he simply drifted away from his wife. Wolsey, as his closest councillor and confidant, was not blamed.

However, I firmly believe that because of Henry’s personality, the patterns of his life (he never kept advisers for that long, always growing resentful of their influence), and Wolsey’s own manners and attitude, his fall was inevitable, and so in this universe it still took place, only for different reasons. Following the same historical timeline, Wolsey was arrested in 1529, and died on his way to London to face trial, on the 20 November 1530.

Wolsey’s main enemies were the elite nobility - the Duke of Norfolk, the Duke of Suffolk (whose dislike was personal), the ‘minions,’ who were Henry VIII’s personal friends early in his reign (Sir Nicholas Carew, Sir Francis Bryan, William Compton etc). He had a huge amount of freedom in terms of his control over the government (in fact, he mostly ran the country), and it was inevitable that eventually Henry, growing from a trusting young adult focused entirely on his own pleasure into a spoiled, easily resentful older man, would reach a limit. Manipulated by his council, Henry accused Wolsey of treason.

He always regretted the fall of his first, and greatest minister, and blamed everyone other than himself - in truth, losing Wolsey left Henry somewhat rudderless, forced for the first time in fourteen years to take on the day-to-day tasks of government. the importance of the Duke of Suffolk increased after the downfall of his rival, as he became Henry’s leading supporter (though not necessarily adviser, not being the sharpest tool in the box).

[coordinationbronzeisy]

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[partition-terface-design-i]

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