I finally won the fight on my 8th try, and it took 40 minutes. Holy fuck. Here's how I did it and how you can replicate it.
I ran Dan Heng: Imbibitor Lunae, Gepard, Natasha, and March 7th. DHIL can probably be replaced with any character that can deal decent damage and (most importantly) has some form of an AoE attack, such as Burst DMG or AoE DMG.
The best strategy I can suggest is having 3 abundance/preservation characters, and one general damage dealer. Outlasting Aventurine's damage output and imprisonment is a viable strategy.
Skill point and energy management is huge here. I would not use any ultimate outside of the gamble state unless it either defeats Aventurine or allows another character to regain energy. Keeping your skill points up to allow characters to do AoE attacks is critical.
I personally found shielding more helpful than healing. It was much easier to utilize March 7th's and Gepard's endless shielding output than to pray that DHIL survived long enough for a Natasha heal.
March 7th is really, really good for this fight. Her shield has a chance to clear debuffs from your own characters, including the imprisonment status, her follow-ups just slowly keep chipping away at Aventurine's HP and regenerates energy for her ult to be ready, her ult hits all of the dice, and throughout the whole 40 minutes she only lost one gamble due to bad RNG. If you have a built March (mine was half-built, I used spare relics I had while farming for Gepard,) BRING HER.
The main strategy was this: I rigged my party to have characters consistently win the gamble every time. By holding's March's ult until she needed to gamble and saving skill points for DHIL to gamble, I was able to ensure that those two would win every gamble and would probably stay alive, and than it turned into keeping Natasha alive as best I could and slowly defeating Aventurine.
This is absolutely an RNG fight. Good luck. Once again, this strategy is tiring, but it will get a win...eventually.
Using Tutorial LC: 3x Skill > Ultimate (3 turn ultimate)
Light Cones
To know the damage difference between each light cone, check the tables below the cut.
Reforged Remembrance 5★
Good Night Sleep Well 4★
Incessant Rain 5★
It's Showtime 4★
Eyes of the Prey 4★
Fermata 4★ [S5]
Before the Tutorial Mission Starts 4★ [S5]
— Black Swan Kit TL;DR —
All Basic Attack, Skill, and Ultimate deal Wind DMG on enemies.
Arcana = deals Wind DMG and Wind DoT damage at start of enemy turn
Arcana stack = increase DoT dmg%; max of 50 stacks; resets at enemy turn
Basic Attack: Chance to apply an Arcana Stack for each DoT on enemy.
Skill: Chance to apply DEF shred and Arcana stack.
Ultimate: Applies Epiphany on all enemies for 2 turns.
Epiphany = more DoT dmg% and Arcana effects are considered as Wind Shear, Bleed, Burn, and Shock; Arcana stacks don’t reset as long as Epiphany is on enemy.
Talent: when enemies enter battle, applies DoT; each DoT enemy gets, chance to get Arcana stack
If 3+ Arcana stacks = chance to apply Arcana stacks on adjacent targets
If 7+ Arcana stacks = DEF ignore on target and adjacent targets
Technique: chance to apply Arcana stacks on target at start of battle
— How to Play Black Swan in Simplified Form —
Black Swan can’t detonate any DoTs. Her DoT damage depends on enemy speed = backloaded damage. Her kit revolves entirely around increasing the damage enemies take from DoTs at beginning of their turns, by increasing the Arcana stacks on them.
She needs another DoT unit to apply DoTs on enemy and to trigger DoTs outside of enemies’ turns (e.g. Kafka, E4 Sampo, E6 Luka, or Guinaifen’s ultimate). This is possible when Epiphany is on enemies, since her Arcana stacks can also be triggered by other DoT units.
Black Swan Gameplay in Razor Language:
Other DoT units take turns before BS, they apply DoT on enemy
BS takes turn to use skill or basic attack
Enemy gets Arcana stacks from DoTs and DEF shred (if used skill)
Their calcs are mostly focused in stacking speed on their units.
In Hunterkee’s calcs, the speed ranges from 147 to 163 spd, where the healer is the fastest, while depending on the team comp, Guinaifen is the slowest.
The speed ranges from 153 to 162 spd in Bonk’s calcs, where Kafka and the healer are the slowest, while Ruan Mei is the fastest.
In GuobaCertified’s simulations, the speed ranges from 163 to 168 spd, where Ruan Mei is the fastest, while Kafka is the slowest.
Amongst the three calcs, Hunterkee’s is closer to home because that’s mostly the speed range that F2Ps and low-spender players can achieve for their character builds. GuobaCertified’s, however, looks something you’d only see in whale builds or minmax builds. In all 3 simulations, Black Swan’s speed is somewhere in the middle.
— Does she need Kafka? —
BS could work without Kafka, but BS needs another unit that would trigger her DoTs outside the enemies’ turns. BS loses a lot of damage if her damage only relies on enemies’ turns, with no one to detonate her DoTs outside their turns.
— How much boost does Black Swan bring to Kafka DoT teams? —
From Hunterkee’s calcs, Black Swan brings about 19% boost against single-target enemy and 33% boost on AoE.
— ATK% or SPD on boots? —
Slow BS = ATK% boots
Fast BS = SPD boots
BS in Pure Fiction = SPD boots
Reasoning:
MoC has a limit of 10 cycles for you to defeat the enemies. Whether you use ATK% or SPD boots on her, Black Swan needs time to gain stacks to deal more DoT damage on enemies’ turn start.
However, Pure Fiction needs you to clear the enemies at faster rate. This means you need to clear out the first 5, before the next 5 could spawn in. This is where SPD boots would be more advantageous for her to act more turns before the enemies.
Also, SPD boots if you need to reach the SPD threshold for Glamoth set.
NOTE: There’s this discussion about building Fast BS, Slow BS, and “Classical SPD” BS. “Classical SPD” BS means her having 134 SPD. The post is written by u/L0wpriority here and a counterargument was posted by u/guobacertified here. To know what goes on in their talks, better check those links instead.
However, for me, I’d say to build your BS’s SPD according to what her allies’ SPD are. I’ve linked below some showcase for BS teams and the team order of each. I also explained how those teams are formed and worked together in the Practical Consensus below.
— ATK% or Wind DMG% on orb? —
Wind DMG% orb if no Ruan Mei; ATK% orb if Ruan Mei is in team. Difference is minimal.
Damage difference:
From Hunterkee’s calcs: 0.06%
From Guoba’s: 1.48%-2.75%
— Black Swan Team Showcase in Practice —
NOTE: Team Order = Highest SPD (Fastest) to Lowest SPD (Slowest)
Black Swan + Kafka + Ruan Mei
Fast Black Swan + Slow Kafka DoT team – sample showcase done by Ikatsu here. [Team order: Ruan Mei > Black Swan > Kafka > Lynx]
Slow Black Swan + Fast Kafka DoT team – sample showcase done by Dreamy here. [Team order: Ruan Mei > Tingyun > Kafka > Black Swan]
Black Swan Triple DoT team in Pure Fiction – sample showcase done by Ikatsu here. [Team order: Kafka > Ruan Mei > Sampo > Black Swan]
Black Swan without Kafka using other DoT allies
Black Swan + Guinaifen DoT team – sample showcase done by Moon here. [Team order: Asta > Guinaifen > Ruan Mei > Black Swan]
Black Swan + Sampo DoT team – sample showcase done by Ikatsu here. [Team order: Ruan Mei > Black Swan > Sampo > Lynx]
Black Swan + Luka DoT team – sample showcase done by Lv.999 Silverwolf here. [Team order: Huohuo > Luka > Silverwolf > Black Swan]
Black Swan without Ruan Mei using other SPD buffers
Black Swan F2P team - sample showcase done by Ikatsu here. [Team order: Guinaifen > Asta > Black Swan > Lynx]
Black Swan with Asta as SPD support – sample showcase done by Moon here. [Team order: Asta > Fu Xuan > Black Swan > Sampo]
Black Swan Hypercarry
Black Swan Hypercarry team – sample showcase done by Ikatsu here. [Team order: Ruan Mei > Tingyun > Black Swan > Lynx]
E1S1 Black Swan Hypercarry team – sample showcase done by Sleepy here. [Team order: Tingyun > Ruan Mei > Hanya > Black Swan]
Black Swan as Debuffer
Black Swan as debuffer for Dr. Ratio team – this could work if you use BS for her DEF shred only (and you have Ruan Mei in your team); sample showcase done by Rehoo and EdenPlays.
E1 Black Swan as debuffer for Jing Yuan team – E1 Black Swan is like 5* Pela (but with RES reduce instead of DEF shred) for fire, lightning, physical, and wind; sample showcase done by Sleepy here.
Black Swan as debuffer for Blade team – not sure if BS in this showcase is E0 or E1, but BS acts as debuffer for him regardless; sample showcase done by Exodus here.
Black Swan using Freeze Mechanics
Black Swan Freeze team – sample showcase done by Hyrion here. [Team order: Luocha > Pela > Ruan Mei > Black Swan]
Practical Consensus:
In teams with Ruan Mei, Black Swan speed in team showcase mostly ranges from 134 to 140+, while her teammates are ranging from 129 to 153 spd. Sustains are mostly either the slowest or fastest in the team. Other DoT allies are positioned either before or after Black Swan.
Ruan Mei is mostly used in Black Swan teams. This could be explained by Ruan Mei’s talent where she could reduce the SPD needed by Black Swan. With the enemies having 158 spd and reducing to 154 spd due to break, instead of needing 155 spd for Black Swan, she could settle with 145 spd instead.
Asta is used as alternative for Ruan Mei in F2P teams because she could increase the SPD of allies with her ultimate. Both Ruan Mei and Asta are positioned before Black Swan.
But, if no Ruan Mei in team, Black Swan is mostly built with slow build, with her DoT allies stacking as much DoTs as possible for her Arcana stacks. If BS is built with fast build (e.g having 155+ spd), this could alleviate the SP usage of the team because she could opt to use Basics instead.
Black Swan DMG relies on enemy turns, thus avoid using slow debuffs and imprisonment on enemies in her teams. However, she could utilize freeze mechanic and Ruan Mei’s break delay because despite freezing the enemies, the enemies still take their turn before being pushed back to take another later turn. This means that the enemies get two DoT turn triggers after getting frozen.
Some teams are quirky, but eh, it doesn’t matter. As long as their team could 3-star the stage, why make a problem out of it?
— Sample Black Swan Builds for Reference —
Fast Black Swan Build by u/-lightningstr1ike-
Fast Black Swan and Slow Kafka Builds by u/Mozaary
Sources
Black Swan Build Guide by Moon
Black Swan Build Guide by SevyPlays
Black Swan Build Guide by Braxophone
Black Swan Build Guide by Gladius
Black Swan Build Guide by GuobaCertified
Black Swan E1 vs S1 Analysis Video by iSUMMON
Black Swan’s Calculations by Hunterkee
Black Swan’s Calculations by Bonk
Black Swan Light Cone and Relic Comparison by Guoba Certified and Kygen
Black Swan and Luka Team Showcase by Lv.999 Silverwolf
Black Swan and Dr. Ratio Team Showcase by Rehoo
Black Swan with Dr. Ratio and Pela Team Showcase by EdenPlays
Black Swan with Asta and Sampo Team Showcase by Moon
Black Swan Freeze Team Showcase by Hyrion
E1S1 Black Swan Hypercarry Team Showcase by Sleepy
E1 Black Swan and Jing Yuan Team Showcase by Sleepy
Black Swan and Blade Team Showcase by Exodus
Fast Black Swan Build Showcase by u/-lightningstr1ke
Fast Black Swan and Slow Kafka Build Showcase by u/Mozaary
Fast BS, Slow BS, and Classical SPD BS Discussion by u/L0wpriority
Counterargument post on Fast BS, Slow BS, and Classical SPD BS Discussion by u/guobacertified
Uploaded on Patch 2.0
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Author’s Note:
I compiled this guide because I don’t understand the talks about Black Swan kit whenever I would go lurk around in HSR-focused servers. Also, I needed something to convince myself that my F2P self can’t afford her for my DoT team. 😂
Update Log
02/10/2024 - Uploaded this post.
02/11/2024 – Added Moon’s BS + Asta team, Hyrion’s BS Freeze team, and Ikatsu’s BS Triple DoT team in Team showcase part; added Asta and freeze mechanic explanation in Practical Consensus part; added Gladius’s Build Guide in sources; added Trace priority; added the discussion links for Fast BS, Slow BS, and Classical SPD BS in ATK% or SPD on boots? part
02/13/2024 – Added classification in Team Showcase in Practice; added Sleepy’s BS Hypercarry team and BS + Jingyuan team in Team Showcase part; rephrased recommended SPD in Endgame stats; added ATK% in Body main stat
02/14/2024 – Added Exodus’s BS + Blade team in Team showcase part
02/23/2024 - Replaced the line dividers
02/29/2024 – Added GuobaCertified's and iSUMMON's video links in Sources
[Relic Set 1 = Optimal Relic Set]
→ 4pc Passerby of Wandering Cloud
→ 2pc Broken Keel
[Relic Set 2 = Biggest Heals]
→ 2pc Passerby of Wandering Cloud
→ 2pc Longevous Disciple
→ 2pc Fleet of the Ageless
** Why Broken Keel? Explained here.
** Healing amount comparison explained here.
Main Stat (Pick one of the two sets)
[Full HP set = Biggest heals]
(Estimate Total HP = 6.8k to 7.7k+)
> Head = HP (constant)
> Hand = ATK (constant)
> Body - Outgoing Healing Boost (OHB)
> Boots - HP%
> Sphere - HP%
> Rope - HP%
[Get-her-ult-fast set = Lower heals, faster Ultimate]
(Estimate Total HP = 5k to 5.6k+)
> Head = HP (constant)
> Hand = ATK (constant)
> Body - Outgoing Healing Boost (OHB)
> Boots - SPD
> Sphere - HP%
> Rope - Energy Regeneration Rate (ERR)
Sub Stat
> HP% or HP
> Speed
> Effect RES
Things to Consider
➤ Without ERR rope:
→ using S1 Post-Op LC = you need 4 basic atks before you get her ult up.
→ using other abundance LC = you need 5 basic atks before you get her ult up.
➤ With ERR rope:
→ S1 Post-Op LC doesn't need ERR rope. S5 Post-Op LC needs ERR rope and 2pc Sprightly Vonwacq to get her ult fastest, but the heals are lowest. You only need 3 basic atks.
→ using other abundance LC with ERR rope = you need 4 basic atks before you get her ult up.
➤ Optional: Build her with 120+ SPD to get the atk buff from Fleet of the Ageless set effect.
➤ Optional: Build her with at least 30% effect RES to get the crit dmg buff of Broken Keel set.
Things to Remember
> Her skill could cleanse/remove debuff from an ally. It is only available when you unlock her A2 trace - Soothe.
Lightcones
* Lightcone list is from the HSR General Build. Link below in the post. (They did the calcs, so now we have the weapon rankings.)
1. Time Waits for No One 5☆ [S1]
2. Post-Op Conversation 4☆ [S1]
3. Warmth Shortens Cold Nights 4☆ [S1~5]
4. Shared Feeling 4☆ [S1]
5. Cornucopia 3☆[S5]
** Quid Pro Quo 4☆[S1~5] *Utility LC
→ gives energy to team
Long Explanation Below
— For Healer Build —
Natasha's healing scales off of HP so I'm going to calculate the estimated HP threshold the builds would give her at max lv 80/80.
— Total HP Calculation —
Natasha's Max Base HP = 1164 HP
+HP% from traces = +28% HP
> from Lv 1 = +4% HP
> from Lv 80 = +8% HP
> from A3 = +4% HP
> from A4 = +6% HP
> from A5 = +6% HP
+HP% from Relic and Ornament Sets
> 4pc Passerby of Wandering Cloud = no HP passive, but gives OHB. OHB isn't reflected in her HP threshold.
> 2pc Fleet of the Ageless = +12% HP
+HP% from Relic and Ornament Pieces
> each 5* HP Main stat Relic piece = +43.2% HP
> each 5* HP Sub stat Relic piece
⇢ Max relic lvl is +15. Every 3 levels, the substats are either enhanced or added.
⇢ Substat roll for HP could be any of these three: 33.8 / 38 / 42
⇢ Substat roll for HP% could be any of these three: 3.46% / 3.89% / 4.32%
** In the calculation, I'm going to consider the lowest substat as a reflection of RNG pain. This would mean that the value that would come out of the computation would be on lower side and irl HP values more than the estimated values are more likely to happen.
Base HP and +HP% from Lightcone
Besides the 1164 max HP from Natasha, she could get additional base HP from equipped LC. These base stats could vary from rarity, so to make my life easier, I'm just going to consider the current highest ranking LC for each rarity (not changing the calcs once newer LCs comes out in future tho) and not consider the HP% passive of each lightcone cause I'm lazy and the LC passives are different from each other, which means not all LC gives additional HP%. The LC ranking above was done by other people, so I'm pretty sure they already consider the LC passives in their calculations.
⇢ 5* lightcone = 1270 HP (from Time Waits for No One)
⇢ 4* lightcone = 1058 HP (from Post-Op Conversation)
⇢ 3* lightcone = 952 HP (from Cornucopia)
Calculating Estimated Total HP for Each Build
> For full-HP set
⇢ Using 5* LC = (1270 + 1164) * (1 + 0.28 + 0.12 + 0.432*3 + 0.0346*6) + 705.5 = 7772.86 HP
⇢ Using 4* LC = (1058 + 1164) * (2.9036) + 705.5 = 7157.30 HP
⇢ Using 3* LC = (952 + 1164) * (2.9036) + 705.5 = 6849.52 HP
> For Get-her-ult-fast set
⇢ Using 5* LC = (1270 + 1164) * (1 + 0.28 + 0.12 + 0.432 + 0.0346*6) + 705.5 = 5669.89 HP
⇢ Using 4* LC = (1058 + 1164) * (2.0396) + 705.5 = 5237.49 HP
⇢ Using 3* LC = (952 + 1164) * (2.0396) + 705.5 = 5021.29 HP
Sources
Honkai: Star Rail General Build Guide
Edisonsmathsclub's Energy Requirements Sheet
Relic Sets
Relic Stats
HP Calculation
Natasha Artwork
Uploaded on Patch 1.1
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Update Log
07/20/2023 - Added the update log, artwork source, reformatted source list
Optimal Relic and Ornament Sets
> 4pc Knight of Purity Palace
> 2pc Belobog of the Architects
Get-his-Ult-Faster Relic and Ornament Sets
(Estimated Total DEF = 2.5k - 3.2k+)
> 4pc Knight of Purity Palace
> 2pc Sprightly Vonwacq
Shielder and Buffer Relic and Ornament Sets
(Estimated Total DEF = 2.5k - 3.2k+)
> 4pc Knight of Purity Palace
> 2pc Broken Keel
** Why Broken Keel on Gepard? Explained here.
Main Stats
> Head = HP (constant)
> Hand = ATK (constant)
> Body = DEF%
> Feet = SPD
> Sphere = DEF%
> Rope = Energy Regeneration Rate (ERR)
Sub Stats
> DEF% or DEF
> SPD
> EHR
> Effect RES
Things to Consider
> Using +15 ERR Rope gives a constant 119.4% ERR%. To get his Ultimate up, there are two scenarios he could do.
⇢ Use 4 basic attacks to get his ult up (this considers the enemies didn't hit him)
⇢ Use 3 basic attacks and get hit 2 times within the whole rotation
** His shield only lasts for 3 turns.
** He only uses basic attacks cause using skills uses up skill points. Better have the other units use that instead.
> If E0 (eidolon 0), don't build EHR (effect hit rate) on him.
> If E1+ (eidolon 1 and above), it is optional to build him with 67% EHR for the freeze in his skill.
> Optional: Build him with 50.1% EHR to get the Belobog set effect, if not using the Sprightly Vonwacq set.
> Without 50.1% EHR: Estimated Total DEF = 2.7k - 3.4k+
> With 50.1% EHR: Estimated Total DEF = 2.8k to 3.6k+
> Optional: Build him with at least 30% effect RES to get the crit dmg buff of Broken Keel set.
Lightcones
* Lightcone list is from the HSR General Build. Link below in the post.
(They did the calcs, so now we have the weapon rankings.)
Moment of Victory (5☆) [S1]
Texture of Memories (5☆) [S5]
Day One of My New Life (4☆) [S1]
This Is Me! (4☆) [S1]
Landau's Choice (4☆) [S1]
We are Wildfire (4☆) [S1]
Trend of the Universal Market (4☆) [S1]
Amber (3☆) [S5]
Long Explanation Below
— For Shielder Build —
I like how simple you'll need to build him and I like how someone already did the calcs for his builds, so I don't have to. It's much better that experts do the TC for the units than try-hard-in-calcs like me. Lmao.
The general build guide recommend giving him the Guard of Wuthering Snow relic set. You could use that on him, but the shielding passive of the relic set is solely focused on the wearer, and not for whole team, which is a downside. But the %difference between the optimal set and this one is minimal, so use what you have.
— Total Defense Calculation —
(Copy-pasted from my M7's build tldr and changed some stuffs a bit, lol)
Gepard's Max Base DEF = 654 DEF
+DEF% from traces = +12.5% DEF
> from A3 = +5% DEF
> from A6 = +7.5% DEF
+DEF% from Relic and Ornament Sets
> 2pc effect Knight of Purity Palace = +12%
> 2pc effect Belobog of the Architects = 15%
> 2pc effect Belobog set (with EHR 50% and above) = 15%
+DEF% from Relic and Ornament Pieces
> each 5* DEF Main stat Relic piece = +54% DEF
> each 5* DEF Sub stat Relic piece
⇢ Max relic lvl is +15. Every 3 levels, the substats are either enhanced or added.
⇢ Substat roll for DEF could be any of these three: 16.935 / 19.051877 / 21.168754 (Average = 19.05 DEF)
⇢ Substat roll for DEF% could be any of these three: 4.32%/4.86%/5.4% (Average = 4.86% DEF)
** In the calculation, I'm going to consider the average substat as a reflection of RNG pain. This would mean that the value that would come out of the computation would be on lower side and irl DEF values more than the estimated values are more likely to happen.
Base DEF and +DEF% from Lightcones
> Besides the 654 max DEF from Gepard, he could get additional base DEF from equipped lightcone. These base stats could vary from rarity, so to make my life easier, I'm just going to consider the current highest ranking LC for each rarity (not changing the calcs once newer LCs comes out in future tho) and not consider the DEF% passive of each lightcone cause I'm lazy and the LC passives are different from each other, which means not all LC gives additional DEF%. The LC ranking above was done by other people, so I'm pretty sure they already consider the LC passives in their calculations.
⇢ 5* lightcone = 595 DEF (from Moment of Victory)
⇢ 4* lightcone = 463 DEF (from Day One of My New Life)
⇢ 3* lightcone = 330 DEF (from Amber)
Speed breakpoints within 5 cycles (550 AV in MoC):
• 109, 112, 115, and 121 spd = +1 extra turn
• 128, 134, and 143 spd = +2 extra turns
• 146, 156, and 161 spd = +3 extra turns
• 164, 172, and 178 spd = +4 extra turns
• 182 spd to 200 spd = +5 extra turns
• 200.1 spd = +6 extra turns
Choose how many extra turns you want for your DPS to take within 5 cycles. Then you decide what SPD value can you afford to get while still maintaining your desired crit ratio.
Once you've decided the SPD of your DPS, your buffer/debuffer/sustain could have:
SPD of buffer/debuffer/sustain = SPD of dps + 5 spd
** Scroll down below to read about the order priority for buffer/debuffer/sustain/DPS.
Long Text Below
To start off, the MOC requirements now needs 10 cycles max to clear. If we are going to consider that each floor has two halves, each side needs to be cleared within 5 cycles.
This means, when it comes to building your units, you need to consider building some speed into them so they could have extra turns within this 5 cycles.
I know there is this common concept that goes like this:
121 spd = low investment
134 spd = high investment
161 spd = desirable spd for supports
Ever questioned why the recommended speed has this gap in between 134 and 161 spd? Like, why is that a big difference? What do these numbers even mean?
These recommended speeds are actually from speed breakpoints that considers the fastest clear of MOC. This means, it only considers getting 2 turns in cycle 0 if you have 134 spd and getting 4 turns in cycle 1 if you have 161 spd. Those speed breakpoints are just for speedrunning MOC if you already have enough crit ratio for your DPS.
But, since we are going to consider balancing our build with enough required stats and enough speed for max 5 cycles, we are going to breakdown all possible speeds we could aim for and we'll know as well how many extra turns each unit will get if we have these specific speeds.
-
For this, we'll be using this chart from u/Elhant42 from Reddit that showed the speed vs number of turns comparison for each cycles.
The highlighted cells showed the cycles in which we'll have double turns. This means that within 5 cycles, you'll see how many extra turns you'll get if you have a specific speed in your build.
From this chart, you could see that 134 spd is the minimum speed you'll need to have double turn in cycle 0, but overall, within 5 cycles, you'll only have 2 extra turns, which is also achievable with 128 spd.
-
Here's another chart from u/Yamasir which shows the speed breakpoints that is commonly talked about by other HSR players.
** I only included until cycle 4 here because that is what we're aiming for - 5 cycles, if we are counting cycle 0 as the starting point.
-
Additional chart I recently added (since I only saw this chart late already) is from Hunterkee. The spreadsheet linked below has available SPD vs Cycle charts for 3/5/6/8 cycles. But in this post, I’ll only consider from Cycle 0 to Cycle 4 in his chart.
** The charts showed the speed breakpoints down to its decimal places, but in-game we can’t see any decimals, hence I only wrote the values above in whole number. To know the exact decimal points of your speed, you could use this site: https://enka.network/?hsr
-
From the chart, you could see the speed breakpoints that will give extra turns for each cycle. People only consider 121, 134, and 161 since those three speed values gives the most turns at cycle 0 and cycle 1, but there are other speed values we could look into that could be useful to us if we either have more or less than those commonly mentioned three speed values.
Notable speed points we should glean on are these values below. Within 5 cycles, if you have these specific speed values, wherein the starting point is at cycle 1, you'll have these certain cumulative turns:
At this point, you could already see how the 134 spd and 161 spd is just similar to 128 spd and 146 spd when it comes to number of turns within 5 cycles.
It goes to show how these two values are overused as advice to players and that other speed values weren't really that gleaned on despite having the same number of turns with these two speeds.
-
— What SPD should I get for my DPS/Buffer/Debuffer/Sustain? —
This, my friend, is also my question before. Now, I'll say here what I learned.
The answer is -- it depends on how you want them to act within the cycle limit.
Normally, people would say to get 134 spd for your DPS. But, I would like to rephrase that answer.
Choose how many extra turns you want for your DPS to take within 5 cycles. Then you decide what SPD value can you afford to get while still maintaining your desired crit ratio.
The SPD values to choose from are these:
109, 112, 115, and 121 spd = +1 extra turn
128, 134, and 143 spd = +2 extra turns
146, 156, and 161 spd = +3 extra turns
164, 172, and 178 spd = +4 extra turns
182 spd to 200 spd = +5 extra turns
200.1 spd = +6 extra turns
Now that you have decided how much SPD you can afford to get for your DPS, the SPD of your buffer/debuffer/sustain would depend on the SPD of the DPS.
There's this theorycrafting term called "relative speed breakpoint", which means the allies' spd breakpoints would need to consider the give-and-take of SP economy in the team. Another is “turn relationships” which is about the SPD combos that are impactful/useful for DPS and supports. To learn more about these, you could check the sources below which links to the Reddit posts made by u/EtherealEch0.
But in this post, I'd rather make it simple instead because I'm lazy to do such menial minmaxing of SPD and RNG isn't really that cooperative anyways.
Once you've decided the SPD of your DPS, your buffer/debuffer/sustain could have:
SPD of buffer/debuffer/sustain = SPD of dps + 5 spd
That's it.
TBF, it doesn't really need to be 5 spd, but any number would do as long as the buffer/debuffer/sustain is faster than the DPS.
The reasoning behind it is that the three support roles should do their job first before the DPS action, because the buff on ally and debuff on enemies could greatly boost the dmg done by DPS on enemies.
-
As for the order priority of your team members, they could go in these ways:
Sustain could be the fastest or the slowest in the team. Buffer/debuffer should be faster than DPS.
** Buffer & Debuffer are interchangeable depending on your team.
Sources
Speed spreadsheet: number of turns per 10 and 15 cycles by u/Elhant42
Extended Speed Breakpoint Chart by u/Yamasir
134 SPD is a social construct
Relative speed breakpoint by u/EtherealEch0
How Do Speed and Turn Order Work in Honkai: Star Rail?
SPD vs Cycle Sheet by Hunterkee
Speed
Turn relationships by u/EtherealEch0
Uploaded on Patch 1.5
➥ Back to my HSR masterlist.
Author’s Note:
Back then, when I’m drafting this post, I can’t find any reliable sources for the speed breakpoints (partly because I’m not really part of the TC community). After 3 months, now I could find some more info about it which expands on the topic itself.
Update Log
11/30/2023 - Uploaded this post
02/29/2024 – Added Hunterkee’s SPD vs Cycle Sheet; added more SPD values in the list
There are two builds recommended for Pela. First build is focused on her DEF-reduction uptime, while second build is focused on her break dmg from Ultimate.
For Debuffer Build (Recommended!)
[Relic Set 1 = more basic ATK DMG, gets SPD to self, gives ATK buff to allies]
→ 4pc Musketeer of Wild Wheat
→ 2pc Fleet of the Ageless
[Relic Set 2 = more basic ATK DMG, gets SPD + EHR to self]
→ 4pc Musketeer of Wild Wheat
→ 2pc Pan-Galactic Commercial Enterprise
[Relic Set 3 = to keep her squishy HP safe]
→ 4pc Guard of Wuthering Snow
→ 2pc Fleet of the Ageless
[Relic Set 4 = more turns, more SP for team]
→ 4pc Eagle of Twilight Line
→ 2pc Fleet of the Ageless
For Break Effect Build
Cavern Relic Sets [Choose either 4pc or 2pc+2pc]
→ Hunter of Glacial Forest
→ Thief of Shooting Meteor
→ Musketeer of Wild Wheat
Planar Ornament Sets [Choose 1]
→ 2pc Talia: Kingdom of Banditry
→ 2pc Space Sealing Station
** The ranking of each combo sets will be found at the bottom of this post.
Main Stats
→ Head = HP (constant)
→ Hand = ATK (constant)
→ Body = Effect Hit Rate% (EHR%)
→ Feet = SPD
→ Sphere = HP% (for debuffer) / Ice DMG% (for break effect)
→ Rope = Energy Regeneration Rate (ERR)
Sub Stats
→ EHR%
→ SPD
→ HP% (for debuffer build)
→ Break Effect (for break build)
Things to Consider
➤ Without ERR rope, rotation to get her ultimate up would be:
→ using Tutorial event LC, use 3 basic (SP-positive)
→ using any nihility LC, use 4 basic (SP-positive)
➤ With ERR rope, rotation to get her ultimate up would be:
→ using Tutorial event LC + Lv 7 talent, use 2 basic (SP-positive)
→ using any nihility LC + Lv 5 talent, use 3 basic (SP-positive)
** The highlighted ones are the recommended rotations for Pela.
➤ Optional: Build her with 120+ SPD to get the atk buff from Fleet of the Ageless set effect.
Things to Remember
➤ DEF% Reduction in Ultimate and Technique. Ice RES% Reduction in E4. She needs 67% EHR to guarantee these debuffs. She has a base 20% EHR from traces alone, so she only needs 47% EHR more from relic or lightcone stats.
Lightcones
* Lightcone list is from Honkai: Star Rail General Build Guide. Link below in the post. (They did the calcs, so now we have the weapon rankings.)
Before the Tutorial Mission Starts (4☆) [S5]
Incessant Rain (4☆) [S1]
Resolution Shines As Pearls of Sweat (4☆) [S1]
Eyes of the Prey (4☆) [S1]
Void (3☆) [S5]
Additional Block of Text Below
The most recommended build for Pela is to build her with the needed EHR values and the rest of the substats would be for SPD and HP%.
Musketeer of Wild Wheat is a set mostly recommended for her because her rotations is only using basic attacks to get her ultimate up.
The Guard of Wuthering Snow is a niche build that is recommended if you are farming for Quantum set and you get a lot of good Wuthering relic pieces from the same relic cavern. This is niche because you are mostly prioritizing her HP pool over her damage potential.
Eagle of Twilight Line is only recommended for her if you don't need to speedtune her in your team. The purpose of having the Wind set and the SPD boots on her is to guarantee that she'll be having more turns than usual compared to using the other relic sets on her. She can carry the SP economy of your team due to her SP+ nature.
As for the planar ornament sets, only use Pan-Galactic Commercial Enterprise if you are having hard time getting the required 67% EHR for her, but if you can achieve that with only using EHR body and some EHR substats, you could use Fleet of the Ageless instead to give ATK buff for your team.
** Broken Keel & Fleet of Ageless for support usage is explained here.
— Break DMG Calculation —
To start off, break effect is a multiplier that enhances three things:
Break DMG
DoT/Delayed DMG dealt by inflicting Weakness Breaks
Action delay caused by Quantum and Imaginary Weakness Breaks
Since Pela is Ice element, she's isn't capable dealing DoT DMG, but she could deal initial break DMG from both her Basics, Skill, Technique, and Ultimate. The calcs only consider single instance of initial break dmg. So yeah, my values might differ with other break dmg calcs.
** There's a break dmg calc in the sources below, but I didn't used it cause I'm running with my last remaining brain cell when I did my calcs here, but feel free to check that out.
There are two ways to build Yukong. It is dependent which you prioritize more: DMG from Yukong herself or her survivability. This would dictate what relic sets you'll use on her. She'll still be able to buff your team in either build.
For Sub-DPS Build (Recommended!)
Cavern Relic Sets (Choose either one 4pc or 2pc+2pc)
Wastelander of Banditry Desert
Musketeer of Wild Wheat
Messenger Traversing Hackerspace
Planar Ornament Sets (Choose 1 set)
Inert Salsotto
Space Sealing Station
** DMG% difference of each relic pairs could be found at bottom of this post.
Main Stats
→ Head = HP (constant)
→ Hand = ATK (constant)
→ Body = Crit Rate/DMG
→ Feet = SPD
→ Sphere = Imaginary DMG%
→ Rope = Energy Regeneration Rate (ERR)
Sub Stats
→ SPD
→ Crit Rate/DMG (dmg build)
For Tanky Buffer Build
[Relic Set 1 = to keep her squishy HP safe]
→ 4pc Guard of Wuthering Snow
→ 2pc Fleet of the Ageless
[Relic Set 2 = more basic ATK DMG, gets SPD to self]
→ 4pc Musketeer of Wild Wheat
→ 2pc Fleet of the Ageless
Main Stats
→ Head = HP (constant)
→ Hand = ATK (constant)
→ Body = HP%
→ Feet = SPD
→ Sphere = HP%
→ Rope = Energy Regeneration Rate (ERR)
Sub Stats
→ SPD
→ HP% (tank build)
Things to Consider
➤ If E0 to E1, rotation would be:
→ using S2 Memories LC + ERR rope, use 2 skill + 1 basic (SP-negative)
→ using any harmony LC + ERR rope, use 3 skill (SP-negative)
→ using any harmony LC + ERR rope, use 2 skill + 2 basic (SP-neutral)
➤ If E2+, rotation would be:
→ using S2 Memories LC + ATK% rope, use 3 skill (SP-negative)
→ using any harmony LC + ERR rope, use 2 skill + 1 basic (SP-negative)
** The highlighted ones are the recommended rotations for Yukong.
➤ If using Sub-DPS build, get at least 50 crit rate & 100 crit dmg on her.
➤ Optional: Build her with 120+ SPD to get the atk buff from Fleet of the Ageless set effect.
Things to Remember
➤ She needs speed-tuning in her build. This means her SPD should consider the next two allies who'll come next after her in the action order.
** Image from MrPokke's HSR CN Analysis Sheet. Link below this post.
➤ Her buffs work on the allies after her turn in the turn order. This means that her buffs won't lock into a specific ally, unlike what Tingyun buffs would normally do.
➤ The game considers that her buffs in skill/ultimate isn't buffing an ally, she is buffing herself instead. This means she won't proc Bronya's Sig LC effect of recovering 1 SP nor Danheng's Talent.
➤ Roaring Bowstring is not consumed by follow-up attacks, Ultimates and Seele's resurgence. Only consumed with basic attacks and skills.
➤ Use her basic attacks in between skills. This will make her return the SP she used.
➤ If using Sub-DPS build, most of her dmg comes from her ultimate.
➤ If using Fleet of Ageless on her, get at least 121 speed on her.
Speed Values (from OkCode)
** Assuming your DPS has 134 SPD, your Yukong SPD should be:
if DPS is erudition/destruction/nihility unit: 135+ SPD
if DPS is any other hunt unit: 155+ SPD
if DPS is Seele: 161 SPD to outspeed her specifically
** Adjust accordingly your Yukong's SPD depending on the SPD of your DPS.
Lightcones
* Lightcone list is from Prydwen Yukong Guide. Link below in the post. (They did the calcs, so now we have the weapon rankings.)
(Tbh, I just copy-pasted this from the Asta build TLDR I posted before this one. Lmao. Most harmony units practically have similar builds.)
4pc Messenger Traversing Hackerspace is the most recommended set for buffers and debuffers where their ultimate is directed at their allies. Unfortunately, Yukong isn't one of them, since her Ultimate is directed at the enemies instead of her allies, which you can see in this GIF below. But, you could still use the 2pc set if you are in need of +6 SPD on her.
4pc Musketeer of Wild Wheat is still the recommended set for Yukong despite the release of the Messenger Traversing Hackerspace set in patch 1.2.
4pc Guard of Wuthering Snow is another niche build to use on your harmony units. This is to ensure that they'll be able to lessen the DMG from enemy hits, especially, for some reason, enemies like to hit the harmony units more than the preservation units themselves. I'm looking at you, Tingyun. Also, what's with the foxian beauties that keeps on aggroing the enemies to hit them instead?
In this build TLDR, I recommend 2pc Fleet of Ageless set more than 2pc Sprightly Vonwacq. This is to give more buffing utility on the unit, than just to ensure the ult uptime of the said unit. The rotations listed above are fit to Fleet set more.
** Broken Keel & Fleet of Ageless for support usage is explained here.
— DMG Calculation Difference —
Since she has the potential to be sub-DPS due to having high multipliers in her ultimate, I created a mini dmg calc below just to know how much dmg% difference using the sub-DPS build would differ with the tank support build. Do note that the numbers I've gotten are just theoretical values since I didn't test it in the game.
Tldr: There's ~40% dmg difference between the highest dmg sub-DPS build and the lowest dmg tank support build.
Sources
OkCode Yukong Guide & Showcase
Yukong Artwork
Edisonsmathsclub's Energy Requirements Sheet
MrPokke's HSR CN Analysis Sheet
Prydwen.gg Yukong Guide
Damage Calculation from Wiki Fandom
Damage Calculation from Prydwen.gg
Relic Sets
Relic Stats
Updated on Patch 1.2
➥ Back to my HSR masterlist.
Update Log
07/25/2023 - Uploaded this post
07/26/2023 - Rephrased some tips and scaled down an image
07/28/2023 - Added the forgotten tip for Fleet of Ageless set
08/26/2023 - Added Messenger Traversing Hackerspace, Fleet of Ageless, and Broken Keel in the calcs
[Relic Set 1 = gives SPD buff to allies, gets SPD to self]
→ 4pc Messenger Traversing Hackerspace
→ 2pc Fleet of the Ageless
[Relic Set 2 = more basic ATK DMG, gets SPD to self]
→ 4pc Musketeer of Wild Wheat
→ 2pc Fleet of the Ageless
[Relic Set 3 = to keep her squishy HP safe]
→ 4pc Guard of Wuthering Snow
→ 2pc Fleet of the Ageless
Main Stats
→ Head = HP (constant)
→ Hand = ATK (constant)
→ Body = ATK%
→ Feet = SPD
→ Sphere = ATK%
→ Rope = Energy Regeneration Rate (ERR)
Sub Stats
→ SPD
→ ATK%
Things to Consider
➤ Using any harmony LC, rotation would be:
→ if 2pc Fleet of Ageless + ERR rope, use 1 skill + 3 basic
→ if 2pc Sprightly Vonwacq + ATK% rope, use 2 skill + 2 basic
→ if S5 Meshing Cogs = 2pc Sprightly Vonwacq + ERR rope, use 1 skill + 2 basic
➤ Using Memories LC, rotation would be:
→ if S2 = 2pc Fleet of Ageless + ATK% rope, use 1 skill + 3 basic
→ if S5 = 2pc Sprightly Vonwacq + ERR rope, use 1 skill + 2 basic
** The highlighted ones are the recommended rotations for Tingyun.
Things to Remember
➤ If using the 4pc Messenger Traversing Hackerspace on another unit in same team, use other relic set on Tingyun since 4pc Messenger set doesn't stack its effect.
➤ She only needs to reach 2444 ATK to max out her level 10 buff (and around 2490 ATK for level 12). You only need a max 5* ATK% Body and Sphere to fill.
➤ The Benediction (ATK buff) from her skill lasts for 3 turns in an ally.
➤ Her ultimate gives 50 energy to ally and increases the said ally's DMG for 2 turns. The energy from her ult isn't subjected to the ERR% bonus of the ally, just flat 50 energy.
➤ Optional: Build her with 120+ SPD to get the atk buff from Fleet of the Ageless set effect.
Lightcones
* Lightcone list is from Honkai: Star Rail General Build Guide. Link below in the post. (They did the calcs, so now we have the weapon rankings.)
But the Battle Isn't Over (5☆) [S1]
Carve the Moon, Weave the Clouds (4☆) [S1]
Memories of the Past 4☆ [S5]
Dance! Dance! Dance! (4☆) [S1]
Meshing Cogs 3☆ [S5]
Chorus (3☆) [S5]
Past and Future (4☆) [S5]
Additional Block of Text Below
(Tbh, I just copy-pasted this from the Asta build TLDR I posted before this one. Lmao. Most harmony units practically have similar builds.)
4pc Messenger Traversing Hackerspace is the most recommended set for buffers and debuffers where their ultimate is directed at their allies. Tingyun is one of them.
4pc Musketeer of Wild Wheat is the former recommended set for buffers and debuffers before the release of the Messenger Traversing Hackerspace set in patch 1.2. While second in place, this option is still viable if someone is already using the 4pc Messenger in same team, since the 4pc Messenger doesn't stack effects.
4pc Guard of Wuthering Snow is another niche build to use on your harmony units. This is to ensure that they'll be able to lessen the DMG from enemy hits, especially, for some reason, enemies like to hit the harmony units more than the preservation units themselves. I'm looking at you, Tingyun.
In this build TLDR, I recommend 2pc Fleet of Ageless set more than 2pc Sprightly Vonwacq. This is to give more buffing utility on the unit, than just to ensure the ult uptime of the said unit. The rotations listed above are fit to Fleet set more.
** Broken Keel & Fleet of Ageless for support usage is explained here.
