HSR FAQ 𖡻 Speed
TLDR;
Speed breakpoints within 5 cycles (550 AV in MoC):
• 109, 112, 115, and 121 spd = +1 extra turn • 128, 134, and 143 spd = +2 extra turns • 146, 156, and 161 spd = +3 extra turns • 164, 172, and 178 spd = +4 extra turns • 182 spd to 200 spd = +5 extra turns • 200.1 spd = +6 extra turns
Choose how many extra turns you want for your DPS to take within 5 cycles. Then you decide what SPD value can you afford to get while still maintaining your desired crit ratio.
Once you've decided the SPD of your DPS, your buffer/debuffer/sustain could have:
SPD of buffer/debuffer/sustain = SPD of dps + 5 spd
** Scroll down below to read about the order priority for buffer/debuffer/sustain/DPS.
Long Text Below
To start off, the MOC requirements now needs 10 cycles max to clear. If we are going to consider that each floor has two halves, each side needs to be cleared within 5 cycles.
This means, when it comes to building your units, you need to consider building some speed into them so they could have extra turns within this 5 cycles.
I know there is this common concept that goes like this:
121 spd = low investment
134 spd = high investment
161 spd = desirable spd for supports
Ever questioned why the recommended speed has this gap in between 134 and 161 spd? Like, why is that a big difference? What do these numbers even mean?
These recommended speeds are actually from speed breakpoints that considers the fastest clear of MOC. This means, it only considers getting 2 turns in cycle 0 if you have 134 spd and getting 4 turns in cycle 1 if you have 161 spd. Those speed breakpoints are just for speedrunning MOC if you already have enough crit ratio for your DPS.
But, since we are going to consider balancing our build with enough required stats and enough speed for max 5 cycles, we are going to breakdown all possible speeds we could aim for and we'll know as well how many extra turns each unit will get if we have these specific speeds.
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For this, we'll be using this chart from u/Elhant42 from Reddit that showed the speed vs number of turns comparison for each cycles.
The highlighted cells showed the cycles in which we'll have double turns. This means that within 5 cycles, you'll see how many extra turns you'll get if you have a specific speed in your build.
From this chart, you could see that 134 spd is the minimum speed you'll need to have double turn in cycle 0, but overall, within 5 cycles, you'll only have 2 extra turns, which is also achievable with 128 spd.
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Here's another chart from u/Yamasir which shows the speed breakpoints that is commonly talked about by other HSR players.
** I only included until cycle 4 here because that is what we're aiming for - 5 cycles, if we are counting cycle 0 as the starting point.
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Additional chart I recently added (since I only saw this chart late already) is from Hunterkee. The spreadsheet linked below has available SPD vs Cycle charts for 3/5/6/8 cycles. But in this post, I’ll only consider from Cycle 0 to Cycle 4 in his chart.
** The charts showed the speed breakpoints down to its decimal places, but in-game we can’t see any decimals, hence I only wrote the values above in whole number. To know the exact decimal points of your speed, you could use this site: https://enka.network/?hsr
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From the chart, you could see the speed breakpoints that will give extra turns for each cycle. People only consider 121, 134, and 161 since those three speed values gives the most turns at cycle 0 and cycle 1, but there are other speed values we could look into that could be useful to us if we either have more or less than those commonly mentioned three speed values.
Notable speed points we should glean on are these values below. Within 5 cycles, if you have these specific speed values, wherein the starting point is at cycle 1, you'll have these certain cumulative turns:
109 spd = 6 turns, double turn @ cycle 5
112 spd = 6 turns, double turn @ cycle 4
115 spd = 6 turns, double turn @ cycle 3
121 spd = 6 turns, double turn @ cycle 2
128 spd = 7 turns, double turn @ cycle 2/5
134 spd = 7 turns, double turn @ cycle 1/4
143 spd = 7 turns, double turn @ cycle 1/3
146 spd = 8 turns, double turn @ cycle 1/3/5
156 spd = 8 turns, double turn @ cycle 1/3/4
161 spd = 8 turns, double turn @ cycle 1/2/4
164 spd = 9 turns, double turn @ cycle 1/2/4/5
172 spd = 9 turns, double turn @ cycle 1/2/3/5
178 spd = 9 turns, double turn @ cycle 1/2/3/4
182 spd = 10 turns, double turn @ cycle 1/2/3/4/5
200.1 spd = 11 turns, triple turn @ cycle 1, double turn @ cycle 2/3/4/5
At this point, you could already see how the 134 spd and 161 spd is just similar to 128 spd and 146 spd when it comes to number of turns within 5 cycles.
It goes to show how these two values are overused as advice to players and that other speed values weren't really that gleaned on despite having the same number of turns with these two speeds.
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— What SPD should I get for my DPS/Buffer/Debuffer/Sustain? —
This, my friend, is also my question before. Now, I'll say here what I learned.
The answer is -- it depends on how you want them to act within the cycle limit.
Normally, people would say to get 134 spd for your DPS. But, I would like to rephrase that answer.
Choose how many extra turns you want for your DPS to take within 5 cycles. Then you decide what SPD value can you afford to get while still maintaining your desired crit ratio.
The SPD values to choose from are these:
109, 112, 115, and 121 spd = +1 extra turn
128, 134, and 143 spd = +2 extra turns
146, 156, and 161 spd = +3 extra turns
164, 172, and 178 spd = +4 extra turns
182 spd to 200 spd = +5 extra turns
200.1 spd = +6 extra turns
Now that you have decided how much SPD you can afford to get for your DPS, the SPD of your buffer/debuffer/sustain would depend on the SPD of the DPS.
There's this theorycrafting term called "relative speed breakpoint", which means the allies' spd breakpoints would need to consider the give-and-take of SP economy in the team. Another is “turn relationships” which is about the SPD combos that are impactful/useful for DPS and supports. To learn more about these, you could check the sources below which links to the Reddit posts made by u/EtherealEch0.
But in this post, I'd rather make it simple instead because I'm lazy to do such menial minmaxing of SPD and RNG isn't really that cooperative anyways.
Once you've decided the SPD of your DPS, your buffer/debuffer/sustain could have:
SPD of buffer/debuffer/sustain = SPD of dps + 5 spd
That's it.
TBF, it doesn't really need to be 5 spd, but any number would do as long as the buffer/debuffer/sustain is faster than the DPS.
The reasoning behind it is that the three support roles should do their job first before the DPS action, because the buff on ally and debuff on enemies could greatly boost the dmg done by DPS on enemies.
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As for the order priority of your team members, they could go in these ways:
Sustain could be the fastest or the slowest in the team. Buffer/debuffer should be faster than DPS.
Sustain > Buffer/Debuffer > DPS Buffer/Debuffer > DPS > Sustain
Bronya is recommended to be a bit slower than your DPS so the DPS could have double turn with her skill.
Sustain > Debuffer > DPS > Bronya DPS > Debuffer > Bronya > Sustain
Sub-DPS could either be faster or slower than DPS depending on how the sub-dps kit works. Preferably, Sub-DPS have similar SPD with DPS.
Sustain > Buffer/Debuffer > Sub-DPS > DPS Buffer/Debuffer > Sub-DPS > DPS > Sustain Sustain > Buffer/Debuffer > DPS > Sub-DPS Buffer/Debuffer > DPS > Sub-DPS > Sustain
** Buffer & Debuffer are interchangeable depending on your team.
Sources
Speed spreadsheet: number of turns per 10 and 15 cycles by u/Elhant42
Extended Speed Breakpoint Chart by u/Yamasir
134 SPD is a social construct
Relative speed breakpoint by u/EtherealEch0
How Do Speed and Turn Order Work in Honkai: Star Rail?
SPD vs Cycle Sheet by Hunterkee
Speed
Turn relationships by u/EtherealEch0
Uploaded on Patch 1.5
➥ Back to my HSR masterlist.
Author’s Note:
Back then, when I’m drafting this post, I can’t find any reliable sources for the speed breakpoints (partly because I’m not really part of the TC community). After 3 months, now I could find some more info about it which expands on the topic itself.
Update Log
11/30/2023 - Uploaded this post
02/29/2024 – Added Hunterkee’s SPD vs Cycle Sheet; added more SPD values in the list