Hi, there is controversial ask I want to ask. Please don't hate me and feel free to ignore if this ask displeases you. This question is about Lily Evans. Lily Evans is seen kind by almost every one who remembers her. However part of me is confused that why would someone so kind choose James Potter out of everyone. Of course she wouldn't choose snape because he called her mudblood but it seemed that she would have forgiven him had he stopped associating with death eaters which he refused but she chooses James Potter out of everyone? Yes, James Potter is rich, handsome popular quidditch pure blood wizard. I do see the appeal but didn't she reject him because he was a bully. I know it's mentioned several times that he changed but I still feel that even if he did change going to him for romantic relationship and marriage knowing what cruel bully he was, he bullied her then close friend snape and threatened to take off his pant in public. It's mentioned that wizards wear nothing underneath. So basically exposing snape in front of everyone. Sirius Black also purposefully told snape location of Remus Lupin. Remus Lupin would be in werewolf form. Snape was going where Remus Lupin was unaware of the danger. He would kill him but fortunately James Potter stopped him in time. Though I suppose to protect his friend from azkaban than out of goodwill. I have tough time knowing that Lily Evans despite knowing all this would purposefully would hang around people like them. Even marry one of them. Yes, people change but things they did makes me confused that how she went past it and decided to date and later marry him aka James Potter. Had she maintained some sort of better relationship and or friendship I would still understand but falling in love with someone who tried to strip someone bare and him being best friend with someone who almost had someone killed, like I am confused? How did she see forget all that? I always personally thought that either Lily Evans didn't know the extent of it or maybe...... she wasn't as nice as people made out to be but since she is already dead and sacrificed herself for her son she is seen good by everyone and maybe people refuse to tell harry potter the truth. I also remember in one of your asks you mentioned that Lily Evans found snape being bullied funny "Lily, even as Snape's best friend, can't help but find the bullying funny for just a moment. It means her sense of humor can be on the crueler side at times."
Also these dialogues
"I know your theory," said Lily, and she sounded cold. "Why are you so obsessed with them anyway? Why do you care what they're doing at night?"
"I'm just trying to show you they're not as wonderful as everyone seems to think they are."
Snape's whole face contorted and he spluttered, "Saved? Saved? You think he was playing the hero? He was saving his neck and his friends' too! You're not going to- I won't let you-"
"Let me? Let me?"
Lily's bright green eyes were slits. Snape backtracked at once. "I didn't mean- I just don't want to see you made a fool of- He fancies you, James Potter fancies you!" The words seemed wrenched from him against his will. "And he's not... everyone thinks... big Quidditch hero-"
I mean snape's reaction makes sense to me but not Lily Evans reaction. Perhaps I am overthinking? What do you think? Am I wrong? Lily Evans is most loved in the fandom therefore I was always afraid to ask my thoughts and doubts regarding her. I mean if I saw someone hanging out with bullies I would think they must be like them after all flocks of the same feathers fly together. Your thoughts?
This isn't offensive at all. I mean, I think she has the potential to be a fascinating character, and I like her a lot. That being said, she's fictional, I don't get offended over hate towards Harry (my favourite character in the series) or by different interpretations of him. I could get annoyed, sure, I can disagree and do so plenty, but he's fictional, and getting offended over opinions of fictional characters is a waste of time and energy. Also, nothing's wrong with an unconventional reading — it can be quite fun sometimes, actually.
And Lily is a character who has some aspects open to interpretation. Since, like James, most people (except Snape) only say good things about them. After all, you don't speak ill of the dead — especially to their orphaned son who saved your world.
That being said, there are a few things we know for sure about her:
She's magically powerful and skilled, as I discussed here:
Your mother,” Slughorn added, in answer to Harry’s questioning look. “Lily Evans. One of the brightest I ever taught.
(HBP)
Don't forget Slughorn taught Tom Riddle and all his followers. He knows talent. Him saying Lily is one of the brightest students he has ever taught means a lot.
2. We know she wasn't just pure goodness; she had cheek and spunk to her:
“Lily Evans. One of the brightest I ever taught. Vivacious, you know. Charming girl.I used to tell her she ought to have been in my House. Very cheeky answers I used to get back too.”
(HBP)
3. She is prideful:
She turned, nose in the air, and marched off towards her sister.
(DH)
The "let me" quote you brought up is part of it. Part of why she reacted the way she did is that she is prideful. She isn't going to be "allowed" anything; she does things she wants, and she isn't going to let Snape step over her free will — rightfully so, might I add, in this case. I'd be angry too. I mean, Snape is trying to tell her who she can and can't see, as if he has any say about who she is allowed to hang out with. It is a slip on his part, but a slip that says a lot about how he sees Lily as his in a way. His best friend he is possessive over since he doesn't have other friends like her. I can understand both of them here, and I think both of their reactions are reasonable given their situations and characters.
4. We actually know Lily has a mean streak. We actually see it in action:
Lily, whose furious expression had twitched for an instant as though she was going to smile, said, “Let him down!”
(OotP)
This is the line I referenced when I mentioned she might have a cruller sense of humour sometimes.
Lily glanced toward her parents, who were looking around the platform with an air of wholehearted enjoyment, drinking in the scene. Then she looked back at her sister, and her voice was low and fierce.“You didn’t think it was such a freak’s school when you wrote to the headmaster and begged him to take you.”
Petunia turned scarlet.
(DH)
5. We know her wand wood, which does tell us a bit about her personality and skills:
You have your mother’s eyes. It seems only yesterday she was in here herself, buying her first wand. Ten and a quarter inches long, swishy, made of willow. Nice wand for charm work
(PS)
Willow is an uncommon wand wood with healing power, and I have noted that the ideal owner for a willow wand often has some (usually unwarranted) insecurity, however well they may try and hide it. While many confident customers insist on trying a willow wand (attracted by their handsome appearance and well-founded reputation for enabling advanced, non-verbal magic) my willow wands have consistently selected those of greatest potential, rather than those who feel they have little to learn. It has always been a proverb in my family that he who has furthest to travel will go fastest with willow.
(From Pottermore)
This wand wood indicates she has a lot of hidden insecurities and fear, but also a lot of potential (It's also Ron's second wand wood). So, I think portraying Lily as having a bit of a temper, prideful, with a lot of insecurities, and a need to prove herself fits her wand wood well.
6. She was almost instantly placed in Gryffindor. The hat barely deliberated with her sorting:
He watched his mother walk forward on trembling legs and sit down upon the rickety stool. Professor McGonagall dropped the Sorting Hat onto her head, and barely a second after it had touched the dark red hair, the hat cried, “Gryffindor”
(DH)
7. She is staunchly anti Dark Magic by her 5th year:
“. . . thought we were supposed to be friends?” Snape was saying, “Best friends?”
“We are, Sev, but I don’t like some of the people you’re hanging round with! I’m sorry, but I detest Avery and Mulciber! Mulciber! What do you see in him, Sev, he’s creepy! D’you know what he tried to do to Mary MacDonald the other day?”
“That was nothing,” said Snape. “It was a laugh, that’s all—”
“It was Dark Magic, and if you think that’s funny—”
[...]
“I’m just trying to show you they’re not as wonderful as everyone seems to think they are.”
The intensity of his gaze made her blush.
“They don’t use Dark Magic, though.” She dropped her voice.
(DH)
But we see here that even though she has a clear moral objection to dark magic, she still hangs around Snape, knowing he found a dark magic attack on another girl funny. She is clearly able to overlook some injustices out of love and loyalty. She does it for Snape; I don't see why she couldn't do the same for James.
8. I don't think she would've orgiven Snape easily, even if he stopped hanging out with the Death Eaters and swore off Dark Magic:
“I’m sorry.”
“I’m not interested.”
“I’m sorry!”
“Save your breath.”
It was nighttime. Lily, who was wearing a dressing gown, stood with her arms folded in front of the portrait of the Fat Lady, at the entrance to Gryffindor Tower.
“I only came out because Mary told me you were threatening to sleep here.”
“I was. I would have done. I never meant to call you Mudblood, it just—”
“Slipped out?” There was no pity in Lily’s voice.
[...]
“I can’t pretend anymore. You’ve chosen your way, I’ve chosen mine.”
“No—listen, I didn’t mean—”
“—to call me Mudblood? But you call everyone of my birth Mudblood, Severus. Why should I be any different?”
(DH)
She didn't look interested in his apology, regardless of what he said — which I can understand. At that point, anything he could've said to appease her would've been a lie. Like Lily says, he calls other muggleborns 'mudbloods', she isn't willing to be his exception.
I don't think she owed Snape forgiveness, and I don't think she is a paragon of kindness and forgiveness she is often painted as. Snape calling her a mudblood just proved where he stood to her. It wasn't the only thing that ended the friendship (see the quote above about Mary), it was the final straw for Lily.
9. To balance all this, I don't need to give Lily her actions that, without them, there wouldn't be a book series to talk about:
“Not Harry, not Harry, please not Harry!”
“Stand aside, you silly girl. . . stand aside now.”
“Not Harry, please no, take me, kill me instead—”
“This is my last warning—”
“Not Harry! Please . . . have mercy. . . have mercy. . . . Not Harry! Not Harry!
Please—I’ll do anything—”
“Stand aside. Stand aside, girl!”
(DH)
She was brave, impulsive, and loved her son fiercely. There is a reason the hat sorted her so quickly.
So, where does all of this leave us?
I first want ot note Lily doesn't know the full extent of James's antics after they start dating. She doesn't know what happened with Snape, James and the Shrieking Shack:
“And you’re being really ungrateful. I heard what happened the other night. You went sneaking down that tunnel by the Whomping Willow, and James Potter saved you from whatever’s down there—”
Snape’s whole face contorted and he spluttered
(DH)
She doesn't know what happened or why he was there. Her reaction is very reasonable considering what she knows is that Snape went snooping due to his obsession with the Mauraders (a reasonable fixation on his part, considering their bullying of him), and James saved him from something. She doesn't know he was saved from Lupin or that he was there because of Sirius. And James kept hiding the worst of his behaviour from her, even into their relationship:
“And stopped hexing people just for the fun of it,” said Lupin.
“Even Snape?” said Harry.
“Well,” said Lupin slowly, “Snape was a special case. I mean, he never lost an opportunity to curse James, so you couldn’t really expect James to take that lying down, could you?”
“And my mum was okay with that?”
“She didn’t know too much about it, to tell you the truth,” said Sirius. “I mean, James didn’t take Snape on dates with her and jinx him in front of her, did he?”
(OotP)
So, it's clear there was a change in James, and he made sure Lily would see his better sides — and he has them. He is not a bully towards Sirius; he cares for his friends and defends them fiercely. He is brave, charismatic, funny, and he opposes Dark Magic. He is stupid in his flirting with Lily we see in SWM, but I don't think he is abusive towards her, or that he used a love potion the way Harry considers. I mean, we see Harry ask himself (and later Sirius and Remus who are biased sources) the same questions you brought up:
Harry tried to make a case for Snape having deserved what he had
suffered at James’s hands — but hadn’t Lily asked, “What’s he done to you?” And hadn’t James replied, “It’s more the fact that he exists, if you know what I mean?” Hadn’t James started it all simply because Sirius said he was bored? Harry remembered Lupin saying back in Grimmauld Place that Dumbledore had made him prefect in the hope that he would be able to exercise some control over James and Sirius. . . .
But in the Pensieve, he had sat there and let it all happen. . . .
Harry reminded himself that Lily had intervened; his mother had been decent, yet the memory of the look on her face as she had shouted at James disturbed him quite as much as anything else. She had clearly loathed James and Harry simply could not understand how they could have ended up married. Once or twice he even wondered whether James had forced her into it. . . .
(OotP)
“How come she married him?” Harry asked miserably. “She hated
him!”
“Nah, she didn’t,” said Sirius.
“She started going out with him in seventh year,” said Lupin.
“Once James had deflated his head a bit,” said Sirius.
(OotP)
All this paints Lily as someone who did forgive James. Who dated and later married him of her free will. They had their tensions in their marriage; we see it in James sneaking away when they are in hiding and hindering Lily's attempts to bond with her sister after graduation:
The first meeting between Lily, her boyfriend James Potter, and the engaged couple, went badly, and the relationship nose-dived from there. James was amused by Vernon, and made the mistake of showing it. Vernon tried to patronise James, asking what car he drove. James described his racing broom. Vernon supposed out loud that wizards had to live on unemployment benefits. James explained about Gringotts, and the fortune his parents had saved there, in solid gold. Vernon could not tell whether he was being made fun of or not, and grew angry. The evening ended with Vernon and Petunia storming out of the restaurant, while Lily burst into tears and James (a little ashamed of himself) promised to make things up with Vernon at the earliest opportunity.
(From Pottermore)
He clearly didn't change completely — he was still a little arrogant, a little mean, and very much saw himself as a jokester even after school. But I think he did change.
The Mauraders went to school during the height of the first war with Voldemort — war affects people in many ways. It's very plausible James did mature due to what was happening around him. Even likely. People can change. The problem is, we don't see enough of James post-changing. At least, not any good ones. We don't get moments with him where he is more humble. There is a short scene JKR wrote in 2008 of James and Sirius post-graduation, of them escaping Muggle policemen, both he and Sirius still act like little shits there:
"No helmet!" Fisher yelled, pointing from one uncovered head to the other. "Exceeding the speed limit by-by a considerable amount!" (In fact, the speed registered had been greater than Fisher was prepared to accept that any motocycle could travel.) "Failure to stop for the police!"
"We'd have loved to stop for a chat," said the boy in glasses,"only we were trying--"
"Don't get smart-you two are in a heap of trouble!" snarled Anderson. "Names!"
"Names?" repeated the long-haired driver."Er-Well, let's see. There's Wilberforce…Bathsheba…Elvendork…"
"And what's nice about that one is, you can use it for a boy OR a girl," said the boy in glasses.
"Oh, our names, did you mean?" asked the first, as Anderson spluttered with rage."You should've said! This here is James Potter, and I'm Sirius Black!"
"Things'll be seriously black for you in a minute, you cheeky little-"
But neither James nor Sirius was paying attention. They were suddenly as alert as gundogs, staying past Fisher and Anderson, over the roof of the police car, at the dark mouth of the alley. Then, with identical, fluid movements, they reached into their back pockets.
[...]
The motorbike had roared into life again. His mouth hanging open, Fisher mustered the strength to look back at the two teenagers.
"Thanks very much!" called Sirius over the throb of the engine."We owe you one!"
"Yeah, nice meeting you!" said James. "And don't forget: Elvendork! It's unisex!"
(Context of when it was written and I found the full story here)
I think it's a cute little scene, and I find them funny in a dorky sort of way here (which, Lily clearly did too). I think both of them are in-character for this point in their life, and when the DE appear, they do get more serious. But, they still act quite arrogantly — like nothing could really hurt them. James going out of hiding willy nilly when under the Fidelius Charm is further evidence that some of his arrogance remained. He doesn't think anything would actually happen to him.
So, there is a place for interpretation here — how much James actually changed is open to interpretation.
Lily's reasoning for marrying him is also open to interpretation. I personally think she has a cruler streak — she almost smiled when Snape was lifted upside down. It's clear she did find James funny/charming even before he mellowed out. Snape's need to tell her they aren't that great is proof that he saw her potential interest there. The fact that she blushes when he brings up how wonderful everyone thinks they are could indicate that an attraction was already there, and Lily was just waiting for an excuse to say yes to James.
I also talked about this a bit before (here and here), but it seems the wizarding world doesn't take violence as seriously. Any physical condition that can be fixed with a flick of a wand, isn't regarded as severe. So, that could 100% play a part here too.
I think Lily could've been a very kind person and still have a few blind spots. Especially since her friendship with Snape has always been weird. They don't have common interests besides magic; they seem to represent safety for each other, but how close they were really is up for debate. You can argue how well they really knew each other.
So, yeah, you can deffinetly read Lily as not a perfect paragon (and canon will support you), you could argue James gave her a love potion (though, I find this less interesting), you could argue she didn't really like Snape that much, you can read it as her giving James a chance out of kindness and a wiligness to belive people can change, or her liking him before and just waiting until she could pursue him guilt free — there are different readings that could make sense here, I think. Which is fun.
The characters of Snape, James, the other Mauraders, and by extension, Lily, changed quite drastically around book 4 (the three-year summer). Since in the first 3 books, and in book 5 and onwards (4 is somewhat in between), we get two distinct and very different versions of these characters that can't really reconcile with each other without some headcanon work.
So, just like Snape and James have different characters that need to be reconciled for fic and fanon, so does Lily. And this is a space you can have fun and play around with, depending on how you want to portray Lily and her relationships with James and Severus.
As for how I personally see it, I think she found James charming before SWM. I think she and Snape were drifting apart for a while at that point. I think she liked the slightly more humble James that faced war and matured a little, but kept his class clown act in their final years at school. I think Lily has a strong sense of justice, but she is willing to give exceptions to people (Snape, Petunia, James, and Sirius, too) out of loyalty and love. I think she wanted to forgive James and was willing to overlook a lot to do so. And yes, I think she did find some of the Mauraders' pranks and bullying funny, despite herself (I think she knew she shouldn't find it funny). I think Jily's relationship wasn't as doomed to fail as some fans like to say it is, and I don't think it would 100% have ended up in divorce. I think Lily did find a lot of James's antics amusing and funny, but when in hiding, it became a bit too much with the stress on both of them — but I believe it would've gotten better had they survived.
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