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The fact that there's people who still think "Mari has good intention but have bad execution/plan" despite the show already shows how her intention is more self serving than anything continue to baffle me. But then again that's how good they're at writing NPD character I guess (unintentional of course lol.) NPD is always been charismatic, charming, they always looks nice and compassionate... On the surface. But when you dive deep however... That's another story.

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Yeah, exactly, like, WHERE are Marinette's "good intentions"? Has she done ANYTHING in season 6 that wasn't at least partially for her own benefit? Even once? And no, I'm not counting stopping the Akuma that's her job, I'm talking about the actual plot of the episodes. Like, I'm not saying I want my heroes to always operate solely for the greater good, but, like, I think they should do that at least SOMETIMES to even qualify as "heroes".

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it's so stupid that astruc felt the need to compromise his artistic vision like that. like i get wanting to have it on cable tv or whatever but when you look at indie series like iwtbamg where the creator used their work connections to do their project or even like the creator of one punch man who was posting comics regularly and it got people interested enough that it was picked up by a publishing company and network. mind you, one punch man started in 2009 and the manga adaptation started on 2012. it's not as if it was unprecedented that people just casually work their way to publication has never been heard of in superhero media, not even adding in what you said about people starting their own media companies. astruc talking about "professional" vs amateur work is so fucking irritating and demeaning to people who just wanna make shit and don't care about becoming "professionals" or whatever he thinks makes artistic creations worth making.

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That's exactly it. He wanted Miraculous to be a professionally made cartoon, and nothing else would satisfy him. Like, he clearly has ideas, especially ideas for Miraculous. Or then the problem was that he only really had a set idea for Marinette, which would explain why he'd so super attached to her. You can see Marinette's character in every version of Miraculous, with her surroundings changing WILDLY.

If you look at Miraculous' development history, it becomes clear for everyone to see that there's been half a dozen different iterations of Miraculous before the one they turned into a cartoon. Some of them were more plagiarized than others, but, like, I'm gonna be really honest; when it comes to creative work, people are more likely to forgive plagiarism when it's done well. Or maybe Astruc was always doomed to make a highly derivative, highly plagiarized work that has good visuals going for it and nothing much else.

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Astruc's seemingly impeccable technique of throwing things out there without a plan, making whatever he decides that day canon, explains the power-ups. He introduced a long list of potential power-ups in advance, but halfway through, he either got bored or couldn't think of any more, so more than half of the elements he introduced on screen ceased to be important—a seemingly superior writing style.

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I think he got told to introduce new things to make toys of, so he came up with "powerup suits", only to be told to do something else, so he started introducing new heroes, only for most of the characters he introduced to not get toys at all.

Either that or it's his "brilliant" strategy of making sure the formula doesn't get stale by still doing everything the exactly same way, there's just new powers in play.

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You know ilikekidsshows,

It's interesting if she isn't her Creator's (Astruc) favorite,

Marinette can unironically double as not only a Cautionary tale but also has a lot of potential for character development.

Like If Miraculous really WAS designed as Adult Show, Marinette would be prefect as a Good Example of What happened if the Wrong People get Powers (Or even how Marinette can be written as an Example as a 'She who fights Monsters type of person' where she's no better then Gabriel, Lila or Chloe despite she and her Stans being against them)

But on the Opposite side of things, Canon!Marinette ironically had a Lot of things that could work if she actually Develop as a character?

Learning to be more confident via being Ladybug? Having to learn to not overeact over the Smallest Flaws? And in General having Empathy towards others (Even her Bully whom she's not required to fix her but not swooping to her ?

All and more examples that if Marinette WAS allowed to develop and suffer consequences, She would be considered a Very Developed character, Especially if Miraculous is written less of whatever Astruc's writing is and more of a Coming of Age Story for Marinette form a Timid apathetic girl whom becomes a Confident Superhero who learns to care for others (And acknowledging that Chloe's a Bully but not swooping to her level of Pettiness as well)

But what do you think?

Do you think if Marinette's not be such a Creator's Pet, She'll be the Prefect example of either a Cautionary Tale or having the Largest Amount of character development since Marinette's character unironically have a lot of flaws to develop form as well?

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Like, my first instinct is to say "yes", based on the premise that Marinette's character doesn't otherwise change, but, like, IF Marinette wasn't a creator's pet Black Hole Character the universe revolves around, and was never intended to be that and the writers were actively avoiding doing that, when we'd instantly get rid of the worst of Marinette's excesses.

No more her treating like her problems are the most important in the world.

No more her insisting on having input in affairs that have nothing to do with her.

No more her crying the loudest whenever she's the one hurting people.

No more her constantly hurting people in order to center her in every single episode.

No more superhero team being run like a dictatorship.

I feel like, as soon as we remove "the writers know Marinette is the center of this fictional universe and write her accordingly" from play, Marinette becomes a lot more basic as a character. Suddenly her flaws would be learning to deal with her persecution fantasies and talking to people normally. And, like, yeah, that's not much, but at least it gives a clear line of what kind of development is needed.

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Honestly, watching TA's "Birthday's are stupid irrelevant info" meltdown on Twitter just kind of...reaffirmed my view of him basically being french Ken Penders - both wanted to work in "the big leagues" and make "sophisticated, adult works" for a clearly older audience that would launch them to stardom and make them into "true artists". Unfortunately(?), life, lack of brand recognition, and the minefield that is media corporations did not allow them their grand start they dreamed of and they were thus forced to "degrade" themselves making children's media pieces instead. However, they just could not let go of their magnum opus and those dreams of an easy rise to artistehood that they've been dragging alongside them for so many years, and as such decided that instead of simply putting the story aside for a time until they had the capital and proper industry foothold necessary to actually bring them onstage in the manner they desired - they instead cannibalized (or in TA's, mutilated and them reanimated the desiccated remains) the work they were given to force in their ideas and had the magnum opus basically wear the plots they were supposed to be writing like a misshaped skinsuit as it caused their show/comic to fall apart at the seams trying to sustain two different half-lives within itself. And if anyone complain? Well, they're just haters who "can't see the vision" and are trying to bring them down, just like those corporate jerks who sneered at them and wouldn't let their poor Magnm Opuses see the light of day, forcing them to have to use such "disgraceful" methods just to ensure their grand works are seen by the unwashed masses to be properly enlightened by their genius.

And even now, several years in, they're still not over never being "given a proper chance to shine", using social media and their respective PR teams's near neglectfulness to jaw on and on about all their "cool and amazing" (Read: poorly optic considered and boarderline racist) ideas and worldbuilding that never seems to ever make it to the screen/page (and when they do - Whoa boy...), pick fights with critcs and media franchises way outside their weightclass (and in Ken's case, making endless frivolous copyright lawsuits over one he was pointedly fired from), and just make their grudge over not being allowed to make their "true" versions into reality everyone else's problem (though with how they've treated the versions we were given, one must wonder if this was not a blessing in disguise).

#Clover Rants Miraculously #ML Salt #ML Critical #I will give Penders this though #He at least went ahead and actually made his ''Adult Sonic In Name Only'' comic into reality #Yeah it was terrible and done on the back of destroying the entire OG Archieverse #But like he DID actually do it so that's one point he has over TA

The fact that Lady Chaos focused more on Marinette than Adrien even though the premise of the episode was Adrien making a documentary about his dad and wanting to learn more about him 🙄

I like Marinette but she's overshadowing Adrien's relationship with Gabriel

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Hiiiiii to the ml salt community :)))) im genuinely curious about this - why do you guys think Marinette’s writing in season 6 is bad? Coming from someone who has found Marinette really annoying and feels disgusted by how she’s been gaslighting Adrien, it seems like it’s an intentional part of her arc with the show gearing up to call her out for it and make her face consequences.

No hate to the ml salt community btw, I’m a salter too, im just curious :)))

I’m sorry if this offends anyone :)))

#marinette salt #ml salt #anti adrienette #anti marinette

This is nothing new, but man am I tired of how widespread and unquestioned the whole "Marinette has Chat Blanc trauma" thing is. Just the way so many people think it's canon, when it's actually a *head*canon directly contracted by the writers' commentary (not to mention the complete lack of actual trauma displayed in the show proper). Wish more people would realize/acknowledge the "head" part. Or in other words, sure it's fine to imagine a "what if", but don't act as if it's a indisputable fact of her character without unambigious textual evidence.

in before the writers retcon new trauma for her again, a la Derision

Also, can I just say how tired I am of people overusing the word "trauma"? Not every upset/difficult situation is literally traumatic, guys. Not to mention how Maristans have been using "trauma" to excuse her for anything and everything she does since season 4. It cheapens and disrespects actual trauma that people experience by using something that should be an explanation for behavior as justification for that behavior instead. And even if she actually is traumatized, that doesn't magically erase her harmful actions.

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The thing about the "Marinette hasn't recovered from her Cat Blanc trauma" excuse is that it originally started as a long-time fanon explanation that would have made sense, for something canon never properly explained. Because the writers didn't think Marinette needed a reason to keep Cat Noir out of the loop, the series proper never gives an explanation to the blatant disregard of Cat Noir's person by Marinette. This meant that the fans had to come up with an explanation, and "Marinette has trauma" rose as the most sympathetic and compelling one. Now it's years after the "Ladynoir Arc" and the fandom acts like that WAS the canon explanation, even though Marinette shows zero signs of being traumatized by Cat Blanc.

The fact that the word "trauma" gets used to excuse Marinette way too much is definitely something I agree with. Sometimes it feels like every time Marinette is upsette in the show (which is very often) just becomes another trauma to the Maripologist crowd. Just because Marinette cries the hardest out of anyone in every situation doesn't mean she's being "traumatized", it means the writers are trying to milk sympathy from the audience for their little black hole protagonist.

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