#jindouche

[hampop]

so @nerdhygiene made this post and it got me thinking about what Jindosh's powers would be so..

sorry for the horrible quality, I do that when I'm excited

[ravel-puzzlewell]

I had to crawl out of the woodwork to ask about That Dishonored Meta or maybe you talked about it but I missed it, how do you feel bout the canon high chaos Emily in regards to the whole issue with the Outsider causing chaos in the world, especially since it ends up one marked mass murderer vs another one slightly less mass but still murderer? Or generally on high chaos Em opposing to the canon low chaos Corvo of the original?

okay, I feel there are several layers to this discussion

1. How I feel about HC Emily vs low Chaos Corvo - I prefer LC Em, but I’m okay with HC Em *in concept*. They lose me on the execution. Not even talking about her sounding like she’s trying to out-edge Ebony Dark'nessDementia Raven Way (”I wish I had 8 arms so I could strangle 8 people at once!”) But it’s just not believable character-wise and she doesn’t have an arc, like Corvo did. Corvo lost the love of his life and his daughter was kidnapped, he was framed for that, he spent 6 MONTHS being tortured, thinking he has no one to trust or help him. It’s believable that this trauma would break him and turn him into a killer for HC. But also it’s understandable that he would rise above it in LC, because he’s a good person at heart and because he wants Emily to inherit a better city, not the chaos-ridden one. But even in LC that suppressed anger shows itself - Corvo might not kill people, but most LC takedowns are arguably more horrible than clean killing. Like, he sees Pendelton brothers grabbing and pushing Emily (in still-motion scene in Void) and cuts their tongues and sends them to slow death in the mines. He has interesting and tragic character dynamic in both LC and HC.

And Emily… just doesn’t have that? She was not tortured, Corvo wasn’t killed, she found an ally with a plan within like 20 minutes.  Like, okay, everyone is different, and 6 months of torture is not a requirement for “justifiable trauma”. But Emily doesn’t sound hurt or desperate - her diaries are bummed out at best! She’s never like “Oh my god, I’m alone against everyone, I don’t know what to do, Delilah is murdering innocent people, I failed them, I don’t even know if I can save Dad”. Instead, she’s mostly “I always thought being Empress is boring, but now I think I want it back. Gotta get my throne and save father. I guess.” She writes joking letters to her lover, so it’s like “Lol remember that time I was without pants in public? Lmao good times. Ok, gotta go kill 20 people before breakfast, xoxo!” She just starts mass murdering people without showing any real distress about it (aside from her edgy comments)

It was easy to understand and even relate a bit to HC Corvo, but you have to do a lot of head-canoning to make HC Emily a believable functioning character. Not to mention, HC drops ball hard on the supposed theme of the game- Ruling Class as Parasites. I still insist that better HC ending would be Em taking Delilah’s place and usurping the Outsider’s powers for herself - becoming an ultimate parasite. 

2. How I feel about HC Emily being canon in relation to Death of the Outsider - I think it makes sense to make Em canonically HC if they want to justify Daud. I don’t have much faith left in DH writers, but I don’t believe they’re really gonna use “Daud blames Outsider for his own problems!” reason that tumblr joked about in 73462 identical posts. (Again, I can’t stand Daud, but that’s just stupid) Instead, we have one eldritch abomination Empress taking place of another, and whoever wins, people of the Isles lose. Daud thought he was the baddest bitch in town, the legendary Knife of Dunwall, but turns out, he never had any imagination. Delilah takes it to the next fuckn level and takes over the Empire. And then in Karnaca, he sees Emily, who was a meh Empress, but a decent girl, turn into a monster who single-handedly murdered entire districts, and became the Butcher Empress after the Outsider gave her the mark. And Daud himself, with the Outsider’s help, sent Delilah into the Void, and there she shoved the Outsider into the locker and took his powers, which means not just that the Outsider is horrible at choosing who to mark, but also that he can’t even handle people he marked. You can easily see how he can reason that “No one should have so much power” and also “No one should be able to give so much power.” Of course, it’s all speculation at this point, but canon HC Emily makes sense from that narrative perspective. 

[goddessetro]

first impression: a canon url that would most certainly steer controversy in that lesbian vs bi/pan emily discourse, now: really cool and awesome person, also very nice, does a lot of awesome art and made me be 10 times gayer for em/wyman/alexi/martha

!!! Nice 😎 always here to bring the #content 😎👉

[clarissaexplainingitall]

jindouche said: Calling it a Kylo Ren Syndrome is very far fetched because no one in fandom does anything with Jindosh  the way sw fandom handled Kylo. He isnt shipped with the main cast, he isn't the focus in fics or shipping, there aren't flowercrown edits of him etc. In fact most of the vocal fans either joke with him or straight up say he is a murdering asshole. Most meta is actually criticizing how Arkane poorly handled his obviously coded pds (and Hypatia's DID).

jindouche said: Bottom line people like him cause he is an asshole, is unintentionally funny and the fact that he is such a cliched extra that talks to u the entire time gives fandom a lot of joking potential. That's about it.

That’s fair, to an extent - obviously it’s not nearly as much as the treatment of Kylo Ren, and he’s not one of the Most Popular Emily ships (that unfortunately goes to Em and the Outsider which is another yikes), but, that said, I have seen enough fic of him and Emily to feel wary that this is going to go down the same path. 

I think that my beef is with that mold rather than with Jindosh specifically, though Jindosh’s popularity strikes me as a continuation of that mold. It’s the feeling that no matter the characterization, if there exists a dude who is thin and white and arguably, to some, not fully unredeemable (Jindosh, I agree, is still light years beyond Kyle Ron in this realm, since he at *least* has some degree of motivation and characterization aside from Dark Side Dark Side Dark Side), there will exist a woobie. So perhaps “Woobie Syndrome” is more accurate, though, like you said, at least Dishonored fandom holds Jindosh accountable for his actions and we don’t have flowercrown edits.

I’m confused what you mean by PDS (i’m assuming based on google that you mean personality disorder - sorry, my psych acronyms aren’t fully up to par and all i’m getting via google is parkinson’s disease), but I agree that Arkane did handle both his psychological state and Hypatia’s DID poorly overall (though they did have emily acknowledge, in LC, that Hypatia was baited and Can Still Be A Good Person and at least managed the bare minimum in avoiding the Scary People With Multiple Personalities Are Always Evil No Matter What trope, which, while still problematic, is better than a lot of the other shit handling DID out there). And yeah, most of the Jindosh focus seems to be on correcting that, but, that said, I do see a heavily weighted focus towards him over Hypatia and that prickles me a bit for the reasons I mentioned.

[ravel-puzzlewell]

@jindouche replied to your post so, taking suggestions for meta and\or salt for...

Delilah meta and salt please my crops are dying

yes good, i feel like she should have been done better, there's gonna be much salt

[ravel-puzzlewell]

@jindouche replied to your post: so I need to re-do half of the mission to get...

Jindosh walked in his wine cellar when my friend played and said “not at your callus hands”:so its highly relatable “jindosh walks into things and blames me” feeling

lmao i think it was the same line? bc he yelled about calloused hands at me too.

but even ignoring the “walking into his things, blaming you” aspect, bc I’m pretty sure the programmers just fucked up a trigger, still, Jindosh, dude, have you seen your own hands? because I’ve seen them when you vaped into my face. like, he has scarred knuckles and messy nails and goddamn vape-fingers. And he insults the Empress’ beautiful and well-groomed hands!

[strangefellows]

jindouche replied to your post: Well, I finished Clockwork Mansion! Final count is...

This is the most accepted au in the fandom

omg well in that case it’s official *bangs gavel* by the power invested in me by my outsider icon i declare Jindosh adoption canon.

[ravel-puzzlewell]

@jindouche replied to your post: most unrealistic part of DH2 so far: witches in...

there is no way any of the witches there are straight i dont know what was up with those two but i feel they just wanted to start Drama by saying the most unrealistic thing that came to mind

ok, that I can live with - they were bored out of their minds and also probs cross with Breanna bc she ordered them to do smth not fun, like clean her reagent bottles, and they are pettily getting back at her by shit-talking